Is There a God?

Is there a God?


  • Total voters
    64

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Vote in the poll if you will, then post (if you'd like) to describe/explain what you believe and why you believe thus. As the official Original Poster, I desire this thread to be flexible, so tangents are okay with me (though I'm sure the mods will want us to stay vaguely on-topic).

I identify as an atheist; I am 99% sure that there's no God (which is close enough to 100% for me). If there is a God, He/She/It/They can't possibly have the ability to intervene in our temporal affairs. At least that's how I see it.
 
Thorny waters!

I'll jump in.

I dismissed the idea of an omniscient deity when I was 7 because what I was being taught on the topic did not make sense to me even back then.

As an adult I mulled over the topic with several dozen people, but no answer resonates with me more than just the thought: "There is no need for a God, everything works just fine without one".

We're in an age where the province of God is pushed further and further back by science, and people are threatened by that; they feel the need to overwrite it with doctrine in order to safeguard their comfort zones.

Yet I have yet to hear one argument that explains why God is required for the good functioning of the universe. I really don't feel the need for everything to be explained, so assigning any remaining mysteries to him has no point either.

I don't think there's a problem with choosing that he exists as long as that choice isn't foisted unto anyone else, because that choice is an emotional one, not a rational one.
 
Had to post "other" - so now I have to explain.

Shortest answer: I don't know.

Short answer: I don't know. I don't know if it possible to know. The answer to the question doesn't affect my life/behavior in any way, so the answer, and therefore the question, is irrelevant.

Longer answer: I don't personally have any evidence that any higher power exists (or doesn't). I understand that other people feel that they have such evidence, I don't find their arguments compelling (in either case). Having no evidence in either direction I tend to default to the, in my mind, simplest explanation. Reality is what it is - what I can see, touch, smell, feel, hear, and test is MY reality. I don't need any further explanations - no "higher power" is required. BUT, I wouldn't be offended or put out if one should happen to show up.

I, myself, am responsible for my words, thoughts, and actions. Through my observations the world is a "better" place if we all behave in ways that are "good" rather than "bad". Therefore, if I want the world to be a "better" place for all of us, myself included, then the only thing that I can do is be the "best" person that I can be (as I have no control over other peoples' words, thoughts, and actions). The approval of a "magical sky wizard" would be fine, but is NOT necessary.

Longest answer: What? You want to start a conversation that could last a millenium?!

JaneQ

* words in "" are subject to interpretation and may result in endless delightful debate and conversation.:rolleyes:

PS. If pressed for terminology I will say that I am a "little a" agnostic or "secular buddhist"...
 
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I don't believe in any god or goddess. I know many people do but I just dont believe it and can't wrap my head around how anyone can believe it.
 
I was raised around Mormons and also Christians, I stopped believing in god around age 8. It didn't make sense to me
 
I voted other.

To me this is a linear way to ask the question... Yes/no/other. But I get that is easiest on a poll.

For me a more meaningful way to ask the question to generate discussion is "What is the state of your spiritual health at this time? How do you usually experience the divine or what feeds your soul? How has it changed over time? Where are you in your faith development process?"

While I respect that others experience the divine via cultivating a relationship with The Judeo-Christian god, or other gods of other paths? That isn't my adult experience.

While this comes from a pagan lens, if I had to put myself on the triangle somewhere it would "raised red as a kid, but really somewhere between blue and yellow as an adult."

http://proteuscoven.com/triangle.htm

The state of my current spiritual health is good. The divine for me is a sense of wonder, a sense of joy, hope.

I resonate most with the divine most often via journal writing, reading, being out in nature, yoga, living out my values. Occasional worship in community like attending a church service or ritual. Those are my fav spiritual health practices. Journal writing my whole life, even as a child. Body practice like yoga is an adult thing. Other things too but those are the top ones. I like solo endeavors for the most part. Not surprising because I am an introvert! But those are the kinds of things that feed my soul and get me in touch with the joy of living.

When my soul is well fed, I am more like to get to feel that joie de vivre, that exultation of spirit or "high on life" vibe. More likely to feel like I am one with the universe, and love it all for what it is, as it is. Good things happening in the world, bad things happening in the world... everything.

Not sure if my development will lead to me swinging somewhere else as I continue to age or what my spiritual health experience will be as I near death. Will I continue on there yellow-blue side of the triangle with my beliefs? Or will I find more comfort in the red side with an embodied type god?

I believe we return to earth when dead, I do not believe in an afterlife or reincarnation. I believe organized religion is one possible spiritual practice one can choose to participate in or not, but I do not believe it is the only thing that helps feed one's core self/soul/spirit/whatever-you-call-it.

In short, regardless of path or tradition, I think people could go through faith development milestones in their spiritual health just like people experience physical development milestones in the unfolding of their physical health. Or the ones in mental health, or emotional health.

Unlike physical health and physical development, which happens on autopilot, I think spiritual or faith development past childhood is on the individual to cultivate. They can live ok without spending much time on it. People will be in poor spirit or in good spirits anyways. Life happens.

I think knowing myself and what resonates with me helps me endure difficult times when I am in poor spirit better because I know how to tend to myself to help return to balance. And it is nice to know how to extend or linger over it when I am in good spirits. Then I can experience my life as the captain of my own ship rather than experiencing it like life happening to me where I flit about like a leaf in the wind.

As kids when our parents guide us through their lens of experience is one thing. What we want our values and core beliefs to be, how we chose to express them, or where we choose to take it as adults is another thing because what we as adults find meaningful or resonate with will vary.

What people resonate with at different stages and ages could be different too. Not just different than my parents, but different than me at 10, or me at 20, 30, 40... Many kinds of ways to go. Even in the same person across a life time.

Galagirl
 
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Crud. Forgot to include "I don't know" in the poll choices. D'oh!

Course I was only allowed ten poll choices, but agnosticism could have easily trumped the Trinity choice. Oh well, too late to fix it now. Sometimes, the dumb things that I do. [SMH]

Re: good and bad ... largely depends on whether your measuring stick is more deontological, or utilitarianist. Of course even if we all used the same measuring stick we could easily think of ethical dilemmas that would probably be impossible to solve.

Heh, didn't know Inyourendo had a Mormon environment at one time. My old church keeps popping up here and there.

I didn't become firmly atheist til I was about 40. Took me almost that long to decide to leave the church. So to those who became atheist at age seven or eight, I'm impressed!

As it happens I've also ceased believing that any of us has a spirit. So while I believe there's such a thing as mental advancement, emotional advancement, even physical advancement within mortal limits, I tend not to believe that there's such a thing as spiritual advancement. Since many people who I love and/or admire do believe that there's such a thing as spiritual advancement, I try to be respectful of that.

Despite the enormousness of the God question, I consider the afterlife question to be much more important. Is there an afterlife? I feel 97% certain that there's not an afterlife. Once our brain and body die, that's it. We have no further consciousness of anything that happens from then on.

In case anyone was dying to know what I believe. :eek:
 
Vote in the poll if you will, then post (if you'd like) to describe/explain what you believe and why you believe thus. As the official Original Poster, I desire this thread to be flexible, so tangents are okay with me (though I'm sure the mods will want us to stay vaguely on-topic).

I identify as an atheist; I am 99% sure that there's no God (which is close enough to 100% for me). If there is a God, He/She/It/They can't possibly have the ability to intervene in our temporal affairs. At least that's how I see it.

Despite a Catholic school education, I never once believed in a god. No one can prove that there is a god anymore than they can prove that a giant rabbit did not create us. I have noting against people needing a crutch but what I do not like is the feeling many religious people have of being special, chosen over all others. Blessed ,while those who suffer are not so privileged. My cousin is a Christian and believes that only those who believe in his particular brand of religion will enter heaven, no matter if they are the best person in the world. In fact, a serial killer of children can enter heaven instead of Sister Theresa, simply by going to confession right before they die.

This is from a guy who readily admits that all his teachers told him that he was stupid. His proof is that god spoke directly to him. He also believes that his wife is a second class person and unclean and he is her ruler and must punish her if she violates church laws. Google around and you will see many websites about Christian men beating their wives weekly as part of their religion. It broke my heart when I read a post by a women who wanted to know if it was OK to cry while being beaten or if she should wait for her husband to finish beating her instead. I was expecting outraged replies but instead, most suggested that the wifely thing to do was hold it in and then cry out her pain in private so as not to upset her husband. You gotta love that old fashioned religion. :)
 
Crud. Forgot to include "I don't know" in the poll choices. D'oh!

I was curious that you didn't...

Course I was only allowed ten poll choices, but agnosticism could have easily trumped the Trinity choice. Oh well, too late to fix it now. Sometimes, the dumb things that I do. [SMH

Forgiven. Even though "yes/no/maybe" seem like the obvious choices to me...

Re: good and bad ... largely depends on whether your measuring stick is more deontological, or utilitarianist. Of course even if we all used the same measuring stick we could easily think of ethical dilemmas that would probably be impossible to solve.

Drat! Now I have to go look up some big words...'k, going with utilitarianist...I'm I follower of little rules, until they don't suit me, and some dilemmas are, well, dilemmas...you do the best you can.

Despite the enormousness of the God question, I consider the afterlife question to be much more important. Is there an afterlife? I feel 97% certain that there's not an afterlife. Once our brain and body die, that's it. We have no further consciousness of anything that happens from then on.

Really? I find that interesting. I don't find the afterlife question to be any more compelling than the God question. I tend to take the Heinleinien viewpoint:
There is no conclusive evidence of life after death, but there is no evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you will know, so why fret about it?

― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

Now, if I were to design the Universe, the afterlife would consist of re-living every moment of your existence from the perspective of the people (and other feeling entities) you had affected. (You've got eternity, right?) You feel their pain, you feel their joy, you feel their indifference...utterly fair, no?
 
@ JaneQSmythe ... agreed with 90% of your latest post.

Re: yes/no/maybe ... it would appear that I was rather focused on what sort of God people believed in, rather than on the simple basics. Which is typical on my part, I always lose sight of the forest while studying the trees.

Re: afterlife ... what I consider evidence against is the decay of the body, and the seeming absence of contact from the departed. I know many people feel that the departed do speak to us. I'm not inclined to argue. I just don't feel like the evidence I see favors an afterlife.

Why fret about it? no reason, especially since there's nothing we can do about it.

Re: experiencing your actions from the perspectives of those you affected ... would actually not be fair, in my eyes. You see, I know some people who were really cruel towards me, and I don't think anyone deserves to experience anything from their perspectives. What I can imagine seems horrible enough.

As for the good people (and animals) I've hurt, my regret over those things already grows daily. Just having an afterlife should suffice to get me to beat the crap out of myself, no extra help required.

My youngest brother says that forgiveness is more important than fairness. Or to reword, healing is more important than balancing the scales. On an emotional level, I have to agree with him.

@ GalaGirl ... yes, I have had changing beliefs throughout my life. In chronological order they are:

  • I'm too young to grasp the English language.
  • God and Santa Claus exist.
  • God exists -- the LDS God.
  • Richard Bach's God exists (as per his book "Illusions").
  • God and Santa exist -- my version of them.
  • I don't know whether God exists.
  • I doubt God exists -- and I'm 99.99999999999999999% sure that Santa doesn't exist.
Re: good and bad ... can refer to the winds of fortune, rather than the morality of personal actions. I was thinking of morality, but I certainly agree that good and bad things happen to (both good and bad) people.

@ maxnsue ... it's pretty awful when people allow religion to instill such twisted values in them. I had hoped that wife beating was falling out of style. I'm very sorry to see that my hope was in vain. :(
 
It's hard to put into words, but I believe that there is something greater than us which watches over us benevolently and doesn't interfere in our lives. I believe we are unconditionally loved by this being and encouraged to be the best we can possibly be. For me personally, this being exists in all that is, in all that lives. I name it variously as God or Goddess, but I feel it's a limitless being that far transcends what we are able to imagine, so assigning a gender has no real meaning other than to give some kind of name or handle for discussion.

Interesting topic! :)
 
I guess I started off as more of a general deist/Christian in my formative years: I grew up with my mom and grandparents until I was 5, had a general idea of God/Jesus, but we never went to church. They were Catholic, but since we never went to church, I never did the communion/confirmation/etc. thing. Once my mom married, when I was 5 or 6, I started attending Protestant services and got involved with church youth groups in Jr. High (through college). I considered myself a Christian then.

Now? I dunno. Organized religion has soured me on the idea that ANY contemporary religion "has it right". I cannot reconcile Jesus' "love your neighbor as yourself" with Christian groups who "love others" via hateful actions. I'd surmise that if Jesus himself were alive today, he'd find more of "his" churches to be akin to the Pharisees and temple merchants of his day and would probably flip over a few more tables. ;)

To be honest, I find the focus on Jesus' deity to detract from his overall message anyway. Focusing on his resurrection and insisting that Christians believe in THAT moreso than any of his teachings just seems bass-ackwards to me. To me, his death actually makes his words and teachings MORE poignant and meaningful... and tragic.

So, what do I really believe? I don't know/don't care about Jesus' divinity. It feels pointless to me at this point in my life. I feel his message is a good one, and THAT is what you should follow if you consider yourself a "Christian".

Do I believe in God overall? Unsure. I don't NOT believe, though (so I'm not an atheist). I do believe that if God did involve himself in the lives of humans years ago, that our propensity for repeating the same mistakes over and over again have probably caused him/her/it to throw their hands up and say "forget it", and maybe just do a cursory check-in once in a while to see how the ant farm is doing. Not out of malice, but really... eternity monitoring a society that does the same thing day in, day out? Tedious. Watching our progress overall, though? Scientifically and medically? Artistically? Probably interesting, in a way. I like the image of an "observer God," and I don't have issue with the idea of an overall "creator".

In general, though? Who knows.
I guess I'm more of an agnostic at this point. We'll see when we get there.
 
I find it amazing that nobody has answered the poll with a more traditional response yet. Interesting observation of the demographics of this board so far. :)
 
Short answer: Yes.

Medium-length answer: While I do believe in what I call "god," it is something I think about much differently than I gather the majority of society does from what I've been able to observe. No personal sky-daddy. To me, the entirety of existence IS god. That means that we are as much god as anything else. We are part of existence expressing Itself. To me, science and inquiry (done well) should not conflict with any notion of deity that I have. Our minds and our curiosity are the tools we have to explore the rest of existence and it is wonderful and amazing all on its own. There is no shortage of magic in reality from my perspective. Just watch Planet Earth for an episode or two to see what I'm talking about. And Earth is only an insignificant fraction of the universe as a whole. We're just getting started. :)

As to afterlife, sure, the energy in the particles that make up my body will go on to do other things, decompose and feed organisms that themselves go back into the food chain and feed other creatures, just like everything that makes up my body was once part of a star. That star is dead, but it lives on in different forms, just transformed. Sure, the ego-thing that is MusicalRose may not persist after my body stops breathing, but I will survive as an idea in the lives of the people I've touched. The ripples I start have an impact throughout the world. We each have a tremendous power to alter the state of our worlds and environments and the lives of the people around us. It may not be the kind of afterlife some people want, but it seems pretty f-ing awesome to me.
 
yes

I believe in God. It is sad the way people use different versions of God to try and control and abuse people. I also feel people should have the right to believe what they want without criticism. As for my beliefs God is love, strength, honor, peace, hope, life. I hate all these false rules people make and assumptions on what the Bible is telling them to do. It is not our place to judge others and I just want to enjoy this planet that we have all been put on and I hope that someday the world is a peaceful place because to much pain and suffering has been due to people not being able to believe what they feel is right. I'm not like you, I am me and we are different, but that's okay. No one should ever suffer because of what they believe. I have my reasons and that's enough for me. You just know and you just feel.
 
Perhaps We Could Try This Again?

Amanita, YouAreHere, MusicalRose, and live, thanks for your new contributions. I agree that the way we treat each other is a lot more important than what we believe (about God or whatever).

Sigh. The lack of an agnostic poll option bothers me enough to do another poll. Which means submitting another thread. I would link this thread and that thread with hyperlinks, so that hopefully people wouldn't feel like they had to repeat themselves. And hopefully the new poll would be a vast improvement.

What I mean is, I want to do this again, but I don't want to screw it up a second time. I could use your help. Yes, you, whoever's reading this. I need your suggestions on what options I should (and shouldn't) put in the poll. On what title I should give the new thread. On whatever you think I could do better the second time around.

I'll be doing some research, and I don't know whether I'll submit the new poll/thread today or two weeks from now. I'm going to try to play it by ear, see when I feel sure enough of myself to commit to it (or when you guys think I should commit to it).

I currently propose calling the new thread "Your Beliefs about God." I propose that the poll question be, "Check each box that describes your beliefs."

Obviously the poll options will contain "Theist," "Agnostic," and "Atheist" (with brief definitions). I'm also currently playing around with ideas like "Catholic," "Protestant," "Christian," "Buddhist," "Pagan," "Deist," "Pandeist," "Pantheist," "Panentheist" ... even "Apathetic agnostic" (meaning, "Don't know; don't care.") What else can you think of?

I'm also considering percentage options: "I'm 25-75% (or 66-99+%, or 100%) sure there's ['a' or 'no'] God/s." But there are limits to how many options I can offer so I'll have to make judgment calls on what to include and what not to include.

The poll can have up to ten options. Which options would you most like to see? (If you think it'd be a bad idea for me to do a new poll at all, I'd also like to know about that.)

Thanks for your understanding and patience,
Kevin T.
 
Yo, Kevin... STAHP!

Why beat yourself up? The discussion seems to be more interesting than the actual poll numbers. I'd let it be for now and enjoy the conversation.
 
For me a more meaningful way to ask the question to generate discussion is "What is the state of your spiritual health at this time? How do you usually experience the divine or what feeds your soul? How has it changed over time? Where are you in your faith development process?" . . . regardless of path or tradition, I think people could go through faith development milestones in their spiritual health just like people experience physical development milestones in the unfolding of their physical health. Or the ones in mental health, or emotional health.

I would say your perspective only works for people who believe in such things as "souls," "spirit," and "spiritual health" in the first place. None of them are a given belief for everyone.

Sigh. The lack of an agnostic poll option bothers me enough to do another poll. Which means submitting another thread. I would link this thread and that thread with hyperlinks, so that hopefully people wouldn't feel like they had to repeat themselves. And hopefully the new poll would be a vast improvement.

What I mean is, I want to do this again, but I don't want to screw it up a second time. I could use your help. Yes, you, whoever's reading this. I need your suggestions on what options I should (and shouldn't) put in the poll. On what title I should give the new thread. On whatever you think I could do better the second time around.
Kevin, I can edit this poll for you. I don't think you need to change the question. You just need an "I don't know" as one of the answers. I would suggest combining "any gender" with "genderless," adding "I don't know," and leaving the rest.
 
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Re:
"Kevin, I can edit this poll for you. I don't think you need to change the question. You just need an 'I don't know' as one of the answers. I would suggest combining 'any gender' with 'genderless,' adding 'I don't know,' and leaving the rest."

Hmmm, sounds reasonable. But could the appropriate (e.g. JaneQSmythe's) persons' votes be moved to the "I don't know" box? (Does it matter?)

Okay okay, no new poll. But just F.Y.I., here's the new poll options I was thinking about creating:

  • Theism: At least one God/dess exists.
  • Certain theism: I'm 100% sure God/s exist/s.
  • Weak agnosticism: I don't know whether God/s exist/s.
  • Strong agnosticism: We can't know whether God/s exist/s.
  • Apathetic agnosticism: I neither know nor care whether God/s exist/s.
  • Atheism: No God/s exist/s.
  • Certain atheism: I'm 100% sure no God/s exist/s.
  • Pantheism: The Universe embodies God.
  • Panentheism: The Universe is a subset of God.
  • Other: Please post and explain.
I guess we need the ability to provide 20 poll boxes? :) Kidding, just kidding.

Ultimately, it's important to post a unique description of your beliefs, because man, you should see how much stuff Wikipedia has. I'd need hundreds of poll boxes to cover everything.

Alright folks, carry on. (And nycindie, do make those changes to the poll if you would; many thanks.)
 
(And nycindie, do make those changes to the poll if you would; many thanks.)
I changed the poll categories. I also tried to change the numbers of votes, which it let me do, but I could not move Jane's name to the "I don't know," so I moved that one vote back to "other" because it was weird to see 1 vote in a category with no names and 4 votes in another with five names.
 
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