Unbinding the briars of my joys & desires

JaneQSmythe said:
I like it.

Just that.

We are not particularly "out" to our families - but if we were I think a letter like this one would be appropriate.

Thanks. My first and foremost reason to write the letter is that I wanted to tell my kids, and didn't want them to ever have a situation where they A) felt they needed to protect Dad's secret or B) let slip something and then got interrogated about it.

YouAreHere said:
Here's hoping you get all "meh" responses, or "yay!" ones. (Well, I hope for mostly "yay" but I'm a realistic sort ). If not... been there, done that, bought (and burned) the t-shirt, so feel free to PM if you want.

LOL my own best guess is that I will get a few "We're disappointed in the way you found it, but we're glad you found love, even if it IS a sin." from my sisters, a "We're disappointed and nothing good will come of this, but we've come to expect this sort of thing from you." from my Mom and Dad and brothers, and a single "Good for you dude!" from my brother in law.

I'll let you know how close I was.

Thanks so much for posting that letter. I'm trying to figure out how to come out to my family about Jack, and a letter/email might be just the thing to allow me to say what I need to before they respond. I love how you provided answers to a list of questions as well. Definitely something to mull over.

I was with them all last week, and while I was thinking about telling them in person, the opportunity for a big group gang-up seemed too much. I figured that an email would give them time to think about it, and hopefully mull their response over a bit before replying. Granted, they could just fire something off, but it will at least take longer than a snippy remark would. I'm glad seeing it helped.

Really enjoy reading your blog, btw. Great to hear your perspective as well as Bluebird's. :)

I think it's pretty interesting myself. She and I don't discuss our entries before we write them, so almost always, reading her perceptions of what happened between us, and contrasting them with my own, is a constant reminder that we each view ourselves as the lead actors in our own movie, and that assumptions about another person's understanding of our feelings are really dangerous.
 
Well, I have to say, the results of the big family letter were surprising. It was...nothing at all.

I got only one response from my entire family, now almost a week later. I got one email from my father that read only "We love you Warman." and nothing more. I have to admit, it's not at all what I expected, and kind of frustrating. Worse, was a couple of hours after I sent the letter, I got a package from my mother for my birthday. I sent her a thank you letter, and she didn't respond to that either. *sigh*. Not really sure what I feel about it. I guess somewhat annoyed, and a little bit sad.

Friday night was a bit unhappy. Thursday night, I got a call from Monkey, asking me to drive her to a Halloween party Friday night. Previously, Bluebird and I had talked about going to a Halloween party that SATURDAY night. As far as I knew, that party wasn't happening, so I was surprised when Monkey asked me to take her there for Friday, and had to confirm that I was even invited. She said I was. It was too late to find a costume or anything, so I was just going to take her and hang out a bit. I didn't really want to go, but after we were going to just go to monkey's house and hang out a bit, and I've been missing her, so I wanted to do that at least. It did not even occur to me that I should mention it to Bluebird, because that was Darkknight's night, and she had told me previously how much she's been missing him, and how for once he was free Friday night. (We talked later about how I really haven't felt like *I* could change the schedule. For whatever reason I've kind of felt like I got what I got, and I shouldn't make a fuss about it, or try to get more than my fair share of time. If Bluebird wanted to make a change, that was up to her, she is the scheduler, and the one in high demand. Later she corrected me on this, and explained that I should feel free to request changes. I'm still not sure how I feel about this. I'd almost rather not ask, than ask with high hopes and be turned down...I don't want to do anything that would make me feel unimportant. Especially while I'm still working through some poly-related issues.)

When I told Bluebird however, she got really upset. At first I had NO idea why she was upset, and she didn't want to discuss it with me. I finally dragged out of her that she was unhappy because she thought that I had deliberately kept plans for the party to myself, because she wasn't welcome there, or maybe because I just wanted to go with Monkey? It took quite a while, but I was finally able to explain to her the real situation. She still wasn't happy, but seemed to calm down. At that point, she was upset enough, and I was too, that I didn't go to the party (Monkey ended up not needing a ride anyway) and I ended up going over to Bluebird's house to talk about it. This of course, upset Monkey, because she was looking forward to hanging out with me and I ditched her at the last minute, which made ME feel bad too. The part that upset me the most about it all was that Bluebird was angry, I had no idea why, and she wouldn't communicate with me about it! Initially at least, she was pretty mad that I wasn't willing to just walk away and accept that she wasn't speaking to me for the rest of the night, without at least some explanation of why. That is a huge pet peeve of mine. If you're mad, be mad at me, but tell me why you're mad and listen to my response at least a little bit. Refusing to communicate just isn't an acceptable option to me. There's so much room for error when you don't talk! In the end, there really wasn't much to be mad about, but if I had just walked away, it could have blossomed into this huge problem. I'm glad it didn't, although, I ended up paying for it with Monkey.

I've been feeling kind of bad about Monkey lately. Chapter 5 of "More than Two" talks about integrity, which it defines basically as "walk what you talk". I've broken too many appointments with her lately, and I don't feel good about it. I'm going to start having to bite the bullet and not. Besides. I miss her.

So, thankfully, that having been resolved on Friday, on Saturday morning early, Bluebird and I went out and took a walking tour of the town she's looking at moving to. It was only an hour away, and was a pleasant drive. Once we got there, we ate a nice meal, then went walking downtown. It was really nice to just walk around with Bluebird and make jokes, flirt and kiss now and then while holding hands and walking around. After we finished touring all the quaint little shops downtown, we drove around town looking at various houses in her price range. Overall, Bluebird was very encouraged by the visit, and it left her feeling happy and and hopeful for the future. I'm sure she'll go back a few times in future days with the other boys to see what they think.

I personally have a few reservations about the town, but overall, I'm sure I'll be happy if Bluebird is there. My main concern is being far from my friends. For Bluebird, her friends seem to be wherever she is. She made several friends just in the time we were walking around town. If we move out there, I will really miss my friends. I'm also concerned about there being enough to do out there. Right now, all of us are fairly involved in the local gamer community. I worry that there might not be enough of a social scene there. The only other activity I really like (seeing the occasional movie) I doubt I will want to do in the local theaters there. I really love Hagerstown's theater. Overall, however, these are fairly minor concerns. I love Bluebird, if she's there, I'm sure I will be happy. Hopefully Monkey will only be about and hour away, which is far for me, but not un-doable.

We came back, had a nice dinner, and went to bed. Sadly, Bluebird's girly bits are somewhat damaged (apparently my fault?) So our activities were curtailed to a major degree, though we still managed some fun.

Overall, it was a really nice weekend spent with Bluebird. Nothing too heavy, all crisis more or less diverted with minimal to no upset. I dropped her off today feeling happy and light.

Tonight I went over and hung out with Monkey a bit. She was clearly feeling hurt and unhappy. I tried hard to show her as much love as I could, as much as she would let me, but I left feeling sad about how far our friendship has fallen lately. I really wish I could have my best friend and my new love as well, and have them both happy and in my life as much as I'd like. There is a little...caution and some minor...suspicion on both Bluebird's and Monkey's parts towards one another (Mostly Monkey). It's really stressful because I really do love them both and missed them when I was away in New Mexico. I just wish I could make us all a happy family together. I love Bluebird, and I will choose her if I have to, but I really hope that I won't have to choose. I keep fighting not to have to choose.

OK, I'm way late to bed, I gotta go. Tonight I'm pretty tired and this has all be pretty Stream-of-consciousness, so if anyone objects to anything, just let me know and I'll probably agree with you in the morning. ;) Goodnight.
 
When I told Bluebird however, she got really upset. At first I had NO idea why she was upset, and she didn't want to discuss it with me. I finally dragged out of her that she was unhappy because she thought that I had deliberately kept plans for the party to myself, because she wasn't welcome there, or maybe because I just wanted to go with Monkey?

Honestly, you are allowed to want those things. You can want to attend a party without Bluebird, or to go to a party with a friend/partner alone. I'm sure that you are not welcome to share every second of time that Bluebird spends with her other friends/partners. That's normal, even in monogamous relationships. I'd view it as a red flag if I was encouraged to feel remorseful for wanting time alone, or time with other friends.

I'm glad it didn't, although, I ended up paying for it with Monkey.

You do not want to be in a situation where your relationship means that you have to neglect and eventually lose all of your friends and potential partners because it takes so much energy to maintain. You shouldn't have to treat friends badly in order to keep your partner happy, or vice versa, and that's what seems to be happening now.
 
When I told Bluebird however, she got really upset. At first I had NO idea why she was upset, and she didn't want to discuss it with me. I finally dragged out of her that she was unhappy because she thought that I had deliberately kept plans for the party to myself, because she wasn't welcome there, or maybe because I just wanted to go with Monkey?

To give more backstory on this:

This was a party we had discussed no less than 5 times. I asked on multiple occasions with WarMan about whether we were attending, and I received varying feedback, ranging from "Yes! It's going to be a blast, let's talk about costumes!" to "Well, we will see." to "I'm not going." I had held off scheduling the Halloween weekend because of this party, and had diverted funds in the case of a last minute, "We are going after all."

But that never happened. When I had last saw him, he told me he wasn't going and that I wasn't going, and so my Friday and Saturday nights were then free, since DarkKnight just wanted to chill out on the couch. He was amiable to everyone hanging out, so I invited WarMan over, only to hear he was attending this party with Monkey.

I was upset because this was an event we had discussed many times and never had he told me, "Actually, I am attending, but you aren't." Even just the night prior when I had seen him! So to suddenly have that hit my screen was very confusing.

I was not rude or nasty. I told him to have a good time and that we could talk about it later. I am NOT the type of person who will tell a guy to do something and then give him shit about it afterward, either. He's a grown man, he can decide how to spend his time and who to spend it with. But yes, I was upset because it seemed very likely that he had told me that he wasn't going, to hide the fact that he was going with Monkey, like maybe he thought she couldn't handle us both being there or something? I was sad that he thought he had to hide this information from me, and it was frustrating that he had not communicated this clearly. From the beginning, if I had been told, "this is something I am doing with her," then it never would have been an issue. But it was an event he HAD discussed with me, sold to me as a fun thing we would do as a couple, and discussed costumes together, even.

One issue regarding communication that we seem to be continually having is the timing of conversations. If I tell WarMan that I don't want to discuss things immediately, or that I need to postpone the conversation due to sleep or whatever, he almost bullies me to talk about issues NOW. When this particular situation went down, I told him I would talk to him about it later, but he wanted discussion RIGHT THEN or the world would end.

As it turned out, the answer I had suspected was half-right. He felt that Monkey would not have been happy that I was there, so when she asked him last minute to attend, he decided to not ask me along. As he said earlier here, he didn't feel confident enough anyway, to ask me if I could switch the schedule so I could go with him, so those two things resulted in this entry.

At no time did I "encourage WarMan to feel remorseful" about wanting time alone or with his friends. If anything, I find Monkey's continued behavior more culpable, because WarMan is having to schedule his time available around whether or not she will be happy to see me. He has stopped attending some game nights and dinner dates with his friends because he would rather not rock the boat with her. Which is his choice, but the blowback he is receiving is not from me, as I am happy to step back and give her space if that's what he says she needs - and that is actually what I have been doing.
 
Well fuck. This is exactly the kind of misunderstanding I was afraid of.

To give more backstory on this:
Yeah, just to be clear, I don't think that Bluebird would have had a problem if I had said at the beginning "I'm doing X activity with Monkey or by myself or with my friends, or whatever.”

As she stated, I think that the upset came from me telling her that the party had been canceled and/or I wasn't invited and/or we simply wouldn't be going, and then telling her at the last minute I was going.

I initially had a huge big thing here about this entire topic, but decided to break it down into Cliff’s notes:
When Monkey asked me for a ride at the last minute due to car trouble, I said "OK, why not?", since I had nothing else to do that night, and would have just been sitting home alone otherwise. Bluebird already had a date night planned with Darkknight who she had been missing lots. Invite her to a party, with no previous notice, and no costumes, and a party which I didn't even really care to attend and was mostly doing just as a favor for Monkey? Didn't even occur to me. I explained this to her, she understands my viewpoint now and sees it as reasonable (from my viewpoint at the time) and the reverse is also true of me.

One issue regarding communication that we seem to be continually having is the timing of conversations. If I tell WarMan that I don't want to discuss things immediately, or that I need to postpone the conversation due to sleep or whatever, he almost bullies me to talk about issues NOW. When this particular situation went down, I told him I would talk to him about it later, but he wanted discussion RIGHT THEN or the world would end.

Bluebird and I actually discussed this again this morning. I don’t want to go over it point for point, but basically I said I didn’t think it was fair to say that she was mad at me and then go away with no firm time to come back and discuss it, and expect me to go have a good time with friends, and she agreed with me. So the compromise we reached is that from now on if she’s too upset to talk to me, she’ll state what the problem is, give me 5 minutes to explain the situation (To avoid upset over simple misunderstandings), and then give me a specific time when we can discuss it further. I think that this will prevent future upsets on this front, or at least minimize them.

At no time did I "encourage WarMan to feel remorseful" about wanting time alone or with his friends.

This is 100% true.

If anything, I find Monkey's continued behavior more culpable,

As do I.

because WarMan is having to schedule his time available around whether or not she will be happy to see me. He has stopped attending some game nights and dinner dates with his friends because he would rather not rock the boat with her.

eh...not really. Most of this is because I'd rather spend some time alone with Bluebird. I like her guys too, but I'd rather not spend our date nights with them either, just because I'm feeling a little pinched for quality time. I love my friends, but right now, I want to spend some alone time with Bluebird. My friends are cool with Bluebird coming over, but we do a different style of hangout than most people. We are literally just going over to each other's houses and hanging out. It's not a party, there are no activities planned. We hang out and chat and order a pizza and watch stupid shows. I've frankly thought that mostly Bluebird would be bored there. Also, because Bluebird is new, my friends feel some pressure to impress her, they want to clean house more than they would with just us casual dudes coming over, and they'd like to make a more impressive meal etc. I can't really blame them for this, they've treated all new additions to the group this way as well.

ANYWAY. Long story short, I didn't feel oppressed by Bluebird, and I don't/didn't feel like she was trying to make me feel bad about doing things alone with my friends. If I had felt that, we'd have major problems. She does things, special, fun things, with other people all the time. If I felt like I wasn't allowed to do likewise I wouldn't be able to continue. But she doesn't, and we're totally cool there. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. Like I wrote in my last paragraph, I'm not surprised that there was some misunderstanding.

I really kind of wish I'd left that stuff out about Friday now. I really wanted the focus of the post to be about how enjoyable the weekend was as a whole, but i guess it's important to show all the bumps and growing pains too, maybe it will help someone out or show at least a realistic image of what happens/is happening.

I love Bluebird all to pieces. This is a minor bump, a few hours disagreement over a misunderstanding. All is well in my part of Poly town today.
 
To be honest, and this is probably the last comment I'll make on this blog, I'm starting to find Bluebird's presence on here a little stifling. I'm sure that you could have come along and corrected anything I or any other poster misunderstood. I kind of thought the idea was for you guys to have your own space to process your feelings, I don't think that's happening anymore and for me at least, it feels very uncomfortable when I cannot speak to you on your blog without your partner jumping in and giving their perspective. I sort of thought she had her blog for that.

Monkey is allowed to want her time with you to be 1 on 1. I'll keep reading your blog, I love it! But I'm no longer going to be commenting.
 
I follow Bluebird's blog and I really enjoy it. She writes well and clearly takes care of everybody she loves incredibly well which makes it a lovely thing to read.

I enjoy your blog too. :)

It is wonderful to have a new love and both you and Bluebird have expressed frustration at not having as much time together as you want. You both talk about scheduling and about missing each other. This is all very understandable.

However, if I were in your position, I would be careful about acting in ways that hurt my friends.

You talk about Monkey being upset, about spending way less time with her, about breaking agreements with her, about her feeling jealous and there are hints that she may not wish to spend lots of time with you and Bluebird as a couple. That stuff is, I'm sure, not what you want but be careful that she does not become cast in the role of bad guy.

I see great risk in seeing things that way. Be careful that you and Monkey do not drift far apart. I know that Bluebird would not seek to isolate you from your friend but be careful that you don't do it yourself. I believe that it is hard for anybody to do well if they are isolated from friends and their only source of support and love is a romantic partner.

You seem like you don't have many supportive loved ones that are regularly in your life already. It would be a shame to lose one who is there and who cares so much about you because you can't find it in yourself to maintain the friendship.

IP
 
To be honest, and this is probably the last comment I'll make on this blog, I'm starting to find Bluebird's presence on here a little stifling. I'm sure that you could have come along and corrected anything I or any other poster misunderstood. I kind of thought the idea was for you guys to have your own space to process your feelings, I don't think that's happening anymore and for me at least, it feels very uncomfortable when I cannot speak to you on your blog without your partner jumping in and giving their perspective. I sort of thought she had her blog for that.

Monkey is allowed to want her time with you to be 1 on 1. I'll keep reading your blog, I love it! But I'm no longer going to be commenting.

I'm sorry you feel that way Max. I too occasionally post in her Journal, although I generally try not to. I think both of us are going to be more cautious about that in the future, but I don't see it as a major issue, however, you're right, both of us don't want to blow up the other's journal.

At any rate, thanks for your input.
 
I do appreciate that you and Bluebird are talking things out and working through the misunderstandings, WarMan - it's great that you can do that, and that you keep doing it (not getting frustrated and throwing in the towel). I value seeing the perspectives of everyone within a relationship - I think it's certainly validating when I have issues within my relationship and just can't grok the angle Chops is looking at things because it's so different from my own.

I can relate to MightyMax's comment, though, in that it's somewhat uncomfortable to be reading *while* you and Bluebird are resolving things in a back-and-forth conversation within the blog threads. It's the difference between talking with two friends separately through an issue, and hearing how they resolved it, and being there while they have that difficult discussion. I'm not saying you should change anything... it's definitely a point of view (or couple points of view) that we don't normally have any insight into. I can understand why it may be unsettling to some readers, though.

Anyhoo... they're your blog threads, and you get to make them what you will. We're just the audience, and I appreciate the fact that you share at all. :)
 
I enjoy your blog too. :)

Thank you. :)

However, if I were in your position, I would be careful about acting in ways that hurt my friends.

You talk about Monkey being upset, about spending way less time with her, about breaking agreements with her, about her feeling jealous and there are hints that she may not wish to spend lots of time with you and Bluebird as a couple. That stuff is, I'm sure, not what you want but be careful that she does not become cast in the role of bad guy. [...]Be careful that you and Monkey do not drift far apart. [...] I believe that it is hard for anybody to do well if they are isolated from friends and their only source of support and love is a romantic partner. You seem like you don't have many supportive loved ones that are regularly in your life already. It would be a shame to lose one who is there and who cares so much about you because you can't find it in yourself to maintain the friendship.

Thanks for your concern and advice.

One of the things I struggle with is that in the past I have dated some people who I didn't connect with much. Monkey always knew that she was more important to me than those people. (Don't feel bad for them, I was second in their lives at best).

Now with Bluebird, things are different. I am really serious about Bluebird, in a way that I never was with the others. For Monkey, this is an adjustment. I feel torn sometimes. How do you balance making your Girlfriend understand how important she is in your life, and making your friend feel like she's still important too? If your girlfriend calls and really needs you, is it OK to break an appointment with your friend? If you don't, how is your girlfriend going to feel? Her needs are less important than your friends? How do you tell your girlfriend "You need to hurry up and get out of here, I need to go hang out with my female friend"? That feels wrong to me.

What makes it difficult is the quasi-poly nature of my relationship with Monkey. We're more than friends for sure. Friends don't share that much, don't spend that much time together, and aren't generally that physically comfortable with each other. On the other hand, our relationship is physically non-sexual, non-romantic. We aren't dating either. Emotionally poly, physically friends?

Honestly, out of all the problems I've had so far, balancing everything with Monkey has been the most difficult. I love Monkey so very much. Both of us are trying hard to adjust to this new...situation? Environment? Unfortunately, Monkey is also dealing with MANY personal issues outside of our relationship. I'm struggling to keep our relationship positive and supportive, while at the same time kindling the relationship between myself and Bluebird in our limited time together. To be frank with you, I have nightmares about it. The worst of those is losing both of them.

It's all new territory for me, and because Monkey and I have such an odd relationship, and even Bluebird and I have a less-than-unusual poly relationship...there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of applicable advice on this sort of thing. I'm trying hard to keep the balance. I'm also trying to continually examine myself and my actions (this journal is part of that). When I see myself drifting or listing I am trying to correct myself back on a course that I hope will be "right".

I would be heartbroken to lose Monkey or Bluebird. All I can do is to walk the narrow path that seems best, to the best of my ability.
 
in that it's somewhat uncomfortable to be reading *while* you and Bluebird are resolving things

I think this is probably the most important aspect of this, and one I've felt a bit myself. I'm definitely going to be more aware of that going forward. Thanks for being honest about it.
 
Personally I don't mind if Bluebird adds stuff to this blog. If there was something I didn't like to read, I don't have to read it. And that's good enough.

I see that it is hard to balance things between Bluebird and Monkey. It's hard for all three of you.
 
For the record, there have been numerous couples here who have commented, and addressed other posters, on each other's blogs and other types of threads here through the years. The only times it got icky or problematic was when threads devolved into a "he said, she said" kind of argument (anyone remember Morning Glory and Kattails?) or if there was a pretty serious break-up/divorce (there were a few). Other than that, I think it's perfectly fine for each partner to participate in the other's blog. I understand that Bluebird's husbands read her blog semi-regularly, but don't post. However, if you want more autonomy here, you might ask your partner to comment only in her own blog or not read yours, and visa versa - I don't know what is best for you. Know that the blogs are protected here, in a way, so if anyone posts something that you'd rather not see in the thread, you can ask a Moderator to remove it.
 
In a couple of hours I'll be 40 years old. 40 years ago tonight, spent 6 hours fighting my way out of a vagina. The sad irony of my universe is that I've spent most of the hours since then trying to get back inside of one. Go figure.

I never thought I'd turn 40 honestly. There were lots of times when I was sure that eventually my bi-polar would get the best of me, but I'm still here. I never would have guessed that at 40 I'd be happier in love than I ever have been. I'm so very happy to have Bluebird in my life.

Wed night was my sleepover night. Bluebird's Trivia got canceled so suddenly she was free all evening. She called and asked me if I'd like to have her over earlier. I told her I really couldn't because I was already committed to spend time with Monkey. Monkey and I had a pretty nice evening. Poor thing told me about some other problems she's having with her husband R. It made me sad for her.

Bluebird and I got together and had a nice evening, just cuddling and playing in bed. This morning was fun too, but I had a lot of work to do, so when she went home early due to having too much to do, I was OK with it. Before she left though, she made me promise that I would come over tonight. I prevaricated a bit, and said "yeah, probably..., but I've got to work late on an on-call shift thing, and my back is kinda sore..." I was considering not coming, but she made me promise I would, and she looked really unhappy and sad about it, so I said that I would. The rest of the work day was pretty lame, but after I finally finished I went over to Bluebird's place and lo and behold, she and the boys had gotten me cupcakes and presents. It was really sweet. I had no idea that they were going to do that, I certainly didn't expect it. I figured Bluebird would get me something, but it was touching to have the boys get me presents too.

It may seem like I'm making a big deal out of something that wasn't, but last year I spent my birthday alone in my house. My car had broken down 2 days previous, and I actually ended up walking to the grocery store to buy myself a single piece of cake to celebrate. It was almost comically pathetic.

Tomorrow I'm taking a half day, and then Bluebird and I are going up to Scranton PA, for an overnight, and then a visit with some friends the next day. I'm looking forward to it, and expect it will be my best birthday in recent memory.
 
Happy Birthday! 🐢
 
Happy happy happy birthday!!! :d
 
Happy Birthday!
 
Happy Birthday, Warman!

I'm so glad that this birthday is 180 degrees from the last. :)
 
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