Spiritual Sex

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by arrowhead

My wife doesn't believe in counselors. She thinks we can just work it out ourselves. That hasn't worked out too well. Funny, she has a bachelor's degree in psychology too. How's that for a rationalizing?!

She has a hard time opening up with her feelings.

I guess that for counceling to work, both parties have to be willing to hear they are part of the problem. It's very hard to hear that what you've been doing for 15 years is actually detrimental to the marriage. With us, the counselor was able to finally tell my husband things he would never accept coming from me or anyone else (even if he did argue the point for a while). I'm not sure we would have survived if he hadn't been willing to listen and change some things (I had things to change also).

Where in CA? I found that getting involved in groups and activities that aren't "church" or scout (my husband is a scoutmaster ) related helps. I joined a Renn Faire Guild and WOW, I can now find someone in just about any religion and sexual orientation without much effort. I feel so much more comfortable around these folks than I ever did with the church ladies. I've been distancing myself from most of the Christian teachings for the last 7 years.

[arrowhead]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Genealogy is a passion of mine, so I am grateful to the Mormons for all their archiving and record-keeping, but when I used to visit an LDS library, it was clear to me from what I observed that it is indeed a cult. My theory is that Joseph Smith was basically schizophrenic and suffered from hallucinations, but somehow a huge religion came out of that, and it continues. I suspect that somewhere deep in the LDS organization, a few people are making lots of money.

I have come across forums and website for excommunicated (or disfellowshipped?) Mormons. I don't have any links right now but I recall seeing a very supportive community. I have a friend whose whole family was shunned by the Jehovah's Witnesses, and she had to go through some deprogramming, too.

The Church is very rich. What else would you expect when 6 million members are expected to tithe 10% of their income; that's usually interpreted as gross income BTW. Of course, many of the church hierarchy are rich. As an aside, and few people know this outside Salt Lake City, but the church is funding a billion dollar mall right next to temple square there. They want control of the whole area. Image is extremely important to them.

There are two main support forums for exmormons. I belong to both but really am only involved in one: PostMormon.org. There are a lot of atheists there and I would say that is the predominant view. There are a few pagans but I haven't talked to any of them yet. I think I will make a more concerted effort in this area.

[arrowhead]

Originally Posted by SNeacail

I guess that for counceling to work, both parties have to be willing to hear they are part of the problem. It's very hard to hear that what you've been doing for 15 years is actually detrimental to the marriage. With us, the counselor was able to finally tell my husband things he would never accept coming from me or anyone else (even if he did argue the point for a while). I'm not sure we would have survived if he hadn't been willing to listen and change some things (I had things to change also).

Where in CA? I found that getting involved in groups and activities that aren't "church" or scout (my husband is a scoutmaster ) related helps. I joined a Renn Faire Guild and WOW, I can now find someone in just about any religion and sexual orientation without much effort. I feel so much more comfortable around these folks than I ever did with the church ladies. I've been distancing myself from most of the Christian teachings for the last 7 years.

So it sounds as if you and your hubby were able to make some progress and that counseling worked for you. I am happy for you. I must ask though - since you are on a poly forum, I assume you are a poly. Is your husband? How are you making this part of your relationship work? I also assume he's not a pagan?? I have noticed that most people into scouts are usually involved in churches and are not pagan (just my sense of it).

I am in southern CA around Orange County. It would be nice to find some people that I could be more comfortable around as you have. If you have any pointers, please let me know.

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by arrowhead

So it sounds as if you and your hubby were able to make some progress and that counseling worked for you. I am happy for you. I must ask though - since you are on a poly forum, I assume you are a poly. Is your husband? How are you making this part of your relationship work? I also assume he's not a pagan?? I have noticed that most people into scouts are usually involved in churches and are not pagan (just my sense of it).

I am in southern CA around Orange County. It would be nice to find some people that I could be more comfortable around as you have. If you have any pointers, please let me know.

I'm just down the street from Knot's Berry Farm.

We aren't currently poly, but I'm open to it - long story on how I ended up here. I stay for a number of reasons, but one is because many of the people here have had some of the best suggestions on making a marriage work. My husband has a bff, a lady friend (through scouts), that is basically his best friend. She accepts the title of "sister" and gets very annoyed when others tease her about being his second wife. It is a platonic relationship, but emotionally, it goes much deeper than mere friendship.

He is not pagan! Me, I'm kinda floating, still Christian in basic faith (but don't want to associate myself with any "church" or even the title of Christian), with very pagan leanings. Still new to the idea and still doing research. Actually, most scouts are Mormon. Our troop isn't, but most are because the church demands participation, assigns leaders and pays for it as I'm sure you may know.

As far as finding a group, it would depend on what activities/hobbies you enjoy. Like I said, I joined Scottish re-enactment group that performs at the Renaissance Faire and found I have more in common with these people than anyone I've ever met at church. It took me a year of researching different things and attending new and different functions. I asked questions, looked at websites, etc. This group just clicked for me and now I have some awesome friends. Before nearly ALL my friends were somehow connected to my husband, either through church or scouts. I decided that had to also change.

If you like to sail, go down to the marina on a Saturday morning and ask if anyone needs extra hands, someone is always looking for extra bodies to crew on a boat. If you like to shoot, take a class and the local shooting ranges usually have event nights, etc. It won't happen overnight, but getting involved in new activities really helps developing a life outside of "church". If you like ancient weapons and artisan type crafts, woodworking, metal, etc. I know a few groups... PM me we can talk more.

[arrowhead]

Originally Posted by SNeacail

I'm just down the street from Knot's Berry Farm.

We aren't currently poly, but I'm open to it - long story on how I ended up here. I stay for a number of reasons, but one is because many of the people here have had some of the best suggestions on making a marriage work. My husband has a bff, a lady friend (through scouts), that is basically his best friend. She accepts the title of "sister" and gets very annoyed when others tease her about being his second wife. It is a platonic relationship, but emotionally, it goes much deeper than mere friendship.

He is not pagan! Me, I'm kinda floating, still Christian in basic faith (but don't want to associate myself with any "church" or even the title of Christian), with very pagan leanings. Still new to the idea and still doing research. Actually, most scouts are Mormon. Our troop isn't, but most are because the church demands participation, assigns leaders and pays for it as I'm sure you may know.

As far as finding a group, it would depend on what activities/hobbies you enjoy. Like I said, I joined Scottish re-enactment group that performs at the Renaissance Faire and found I have more in common with these people than anyone I've ever met at church. It took me a year of researching different things and attending new and different functions. I asked questions, looked at websites, etc. This group just clicked for me and now I have some awesome friends. Before nearly ALL my friends were somehow connected to my husband, either through church or scouts. I decided that had to also change.

If you like to sail, go down to the marina on a Saturday morning and ask if anyone needs extra hands, someone is always looking for extra bodies to crew on a boat. If you like to shoot, take a class and the local shooting ranges usually have event nights, etc. It won't happen overnight, but getting involved in new activities really helps developing a life outside of "church". If you like ancient weapons and artisan type crafts, woodworking, metal, etc. I know a few groups... PM me we can talk more.

Thanks SNeacail. I will PM you shortly.

[Magdlyn]

Arrow, there are so many different kinds of paganism.

As far as animism goes, try Shinto, or The Sacred Fire Community.

This website has interesting things to say about just about every religion on the planet.

http://www.beliefnet.com/

Try their belief-o-matic quiz to determine a good fit (20 questions).

I just re-took it and

Your Top 3 Faith Match Profiles Are:
1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (96%)
3. Liberal Quakers (89%)

Neo-Pagans are a community of faiths bringing ancient Pagan and magickal traditions to the modern age--including mostly Wicca but also Druidism, Asatru, Shamanism, neo-Native American, and more. Neo-Pagan is an umbrella term for various and diverse beliefs with many elements in common. Some Neo-Pagans find no incongruence practicing Neo-Paganism along with adherence to another faith, such as Christianity or Judaism.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

http://www.beliefnet.com/

Try their belief-o-matic quiz to determine a good fit (20 questions).

I just re-took it and

Your Top 3 Faith Match Profiles Are:
1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (96%)
3. Liberal Quakers (89%)

My ex-hubby used to go to that site frequently, had meditations or something emailed to him. I never checked it out much, but I just took the Belief-O-Matic quiz! I didn't know they had that.

I now consider myself an agnostic non-theist and here are my results:

Your Top 3 Faith Match Profiles Are:
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (95%)
3. Liberal Quakers (90%)

I have been reading a bit about secular humanism lately, so this is interesting. But I wonder why UU came out 100%. I've considered getting involved in the UU church in my neighborhood, which is where I got married, and have also looked into the Society of Friends meetings, but both of those still seemed too god- or bible-focused for my taste, from what information I came across. I kinda just want a like-minded community but don't feel the need to worship anything. I like secular humanism because they say: "...without theism and other supernatural beliefs, we affirm our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity." No rituals needed - just my style. I'm going to see if beliefnet has more about them.

Thanks, Mags!

[MimiPhryxus]

Wow there's so much I would like to say but don't want to come off as snarky.

First off tantra is not sex magick. Tantra is a word for spiritual teaching. There is a small part of SOME teachings that involve sex magick but not all. in fact, a large number of tantric practitioners are celibate because of the belief that men lose creative force and life through sex or even masturbation...

That being said I read one response that Pagans and Wiccans mostly practice sex magick symbolically. Some do, and I would even say that most Wiccans I'm aware of stick with symbolic sex magick only. But this is not to say most don't in fact I've read a few articles in the Llewellyn Magical Almanacs of the past 4 or 5 years that have had sex magick information.

If you're really interested in sex magick the works of Aleister Crowley and articles and books on Thelemic sex magick are recommended. There are also many modern books on sex magick available, do a simple search on Amazon for them.

I also want to point out that sex magick doesn't have to be involved with another person or poly relationships. You can create sex magick simply through masturbatory techniques.

I would certainly do more research though before I started trying this out if you're not sure of your religious beliefs or what path you would like to take.

[zephyrrine]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Hopefully you are aware of this already, but more often than not, the sex magick being performed in a pagan or wiccan group is symbolic and does not actually involve physical sex. From what I learned in the few years I spent being involved in Wicca, I can tell you to be careful about participating in any ritual sex or sex magick within a group. Ritual sex, whether for the Great Rite or some other reason, is considered sacred and is mostly performed in private by committed partners, or those with whom you have developed a large amount of trust over time and are at the same level in their studies. No reputable coven would require sex as an initiation, and very few traditions will engage in sex or orgies as a part of group rites. Certainly, taking part in sexual rites -- or even being skyclad -- should only be an option and never a requirement to belong to a group.

When the physical act of sex is part of a ritual, it should be a very intimate sharing of one’s body and spirit. There are predators out there to be wary of. Some join groups looking for sex, because of some misconceptions they have, and others lead groups to take advantage of their position with members who don’t really have knowledge of what is appropriate.

Sex In Circle: A Philosophical Treatise On Ritual Magick

The Great Rite

Originally Posted by nycindie

My ex-hubby used to go to that site frequently, had meditations or something emailed to him. I never checked it out much, but I just took the Belief-O-Matic quiz! I didn't know they had that.

I now consider myself an agnostic non-theist and here are my results:

Your Top 3 Faith Match Profiles Are:
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (95%)
3. Liberal Quakers (90%)

!

These were my result and I find it interesting bc I was raised a Jehovah's witness and I know a bunch of Catholics and my fiance is from a catholic family and they are at the bottom of my list.
Neo-Pagan (100%)
New Age (89%)
Unitarian Universalism (78%)
Mahayana Buddhism (76%)
Theravada Buddhism (72%)
Liberal Quakers (58%)
New Thought (56%)
Hinduism (55%)
Secular Humanism (53%)
Taoism (52%)
Scientology (52%)
Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (50%)
Sikhism (46%)
Jainism (44%)
Reform Judaism (42%)
Nontheist (36%)
Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (36%)
Orthodox Quaker (35%)
Baha'i Faith (19%)
Seventh Day Adventist (18%)
Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (17%)
Orthodox Judaism (16%)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (13%)
Jehovah's Witness (11%)
Eastern Orthodox (4%)
Islam (4%)
Roman Catholic (4%)

[zephyrrine]

Have you tried explaining to her that sex magic is more than sex and it isn't necessarily about the magic. It is about the connection that goes deeper than spiritual or conscious. It is mostly what it represents. Giving yourself to someone mind body and soul in a merging on two entities into one. If it is that important to you and you still care about her. I don't know if this is how every one feels but when my fiance and I did a commitment ceremony when we first got engaged we ended it with a sex rite and on the last Beltane my fiance decided that this is what we would do as part of our celebration (but we really did it). I felt closer to him and he me when this happened. It is not something that most people are comfortable with though,especially if they are newbies to the faith or don't believe it.