Feeling All the Feels

I think you did what needed to be done.

I wanted to lift something up. Realizing this:

I am afraid that we will come away from it convinced that we just aren’t healthy for each other.

IS

I want us to come out of this week armed with reflection that will help us develop healthier habits.

Or at least one possibility for that.

Realizing you need to leave something that is not healthy IS a reflection of how to develop healthier habits moving forward. You learn to stop putting energy into the thing that is not healthy.

I'm not saying it will turn out that way... do the week and see. But be ok with parting ways if that turns out to be the healthiest thing to do rather than being afraid of it.

Galagirl
 
I need a game plan.

With some time of no-contact, I am realizing a few things:

1. I truly love Ponytail and I am hoping that we can figure things out.
2. I REALLY need to not feel like I have been feeling.

So what am I going to do at the end of this break? What am I going to propose that we do in order to set better boundaries?

I had originally asked for a week (on Wednesday morning), so a full week would mean not talking to him until this coming Wednesday. But in all the negotiating we didn't actually end up with a set deadline -- Ponytail basically said, "Okay, just call me when you are ready to talk to me again." This makes me feel tempted to see him now, because I feel like I want to try to start working on next steps.....but I'm not sure that I am actually prepared to suggest what those next steps are, so I need more time.

I have a therapy appointment on Monday and I am planning on not contacting Ponytail until after that appointment. That is helping me enforce a timeline for myself. I think I will probably see how that appointment goes and contact Ponytail on Tuesday or Wednesday.

The other motivation for me to wait is that I am seeing Laptop on Sunday. Laptop and I met on OKCupid, but we didn't ever have a "date." Laptop and I first chatted the same evening that I first chatted with Ponytail -- crazy that the two of them are the only OKC people I have ever met in person. Anyway, I went out on a date with Ponytail a few days later, totally fell for him, and my first meeting with Laptop was basically just talking about my anxieties around the budding relationship with Ponytail. Every time we've gotten together since then, we've just talked about poly and relationships and never discussed the possibility of dating each other.

Nevertheless, I've always felt an attraction to Laptop and I have sensed an attraction in return. But because of the overwhelming nature of my relationship with Ponytail, I didn't want to get involved with anyone else. Now that I am on this break and feel less overwhelmed, I am curious as to how this next meet-up with Laptop will feel. Without the (for lack of a better word) burden of my relationship with Ponytail on my shoulders, I wonder if I will be more interested in Laptop or not.

If I am, should I say something? Should I take this opportunity to start a more low-key, casual relationship with Laptop, and use it as a natural way to dial back on my relationship with Ponytail? Like, if I make room in my life for Laptop before returning to my relationship with Ponytail, then there will naturally be a way for me to enforce better boundaries with Ponytail?

In writing that out, I realize that it sounds insane. I have a husband, two small children, two jobs, a volunteer gig, and a household....there are plenty of things that, if I was giving them all adequate attention, would limit my relationship with Ponytail. I don't need to add another partner into the mix in order to do that....

But I do think I might want to explore a relationship with Laptop. Even though I don't know that we have a lot of interests in common, I really like his personality and the way he talks to me. He's really laid-back and thoughtful. But the reason I don't know if we have a lot of interests in common is that we have really only talked about polyamory and our relationships with our partners -- we haven't really gotten to know each other as people. So maybe if we tried to explore a relationship it would fizzle fast and then I would also lose my polyamory chat buddy.

Or maybe not? Maybe we would both be casual and curious enough that we could see if a relationship works and still stay friends if it doesn't?

Bah. I'm so confused.

Plus, my feelings for Laptop don't even compare to my feelings for Ponytail. But should that matter? If I don't have to choose one relationship to pursue -- if I can pursue both -- then isn't it okay to have a different type of connection with two different people?

But on the other hand, my life is SO full. I feel like my time is so constrained as it is -- is adding another partner into the mix a terrible idea?

Maybe the best course of action would be to ask Ponytail for a longer break, explore a relationship with Laptop, and see if a more casual/less intense relationship with Laptop yields me with a more balanced lifestyle. Maybe there's no way to really dial back my relationship with Ponytail. Maybe I need to find a new person in order to get the life balance I need.

On the other hand, I feel like I already have someone in my life who I truly love, and who connects with me on many levels. I feel like the best course of action is to try to make that relationship more healthy rather than jumping ship to another person.....

Argh. Well....

I guess we'll just see what happens. All I know for sure is that I am counting the hours until my therapy appointment on Monday.
 
FWIW?

I think you could stick with your decisions. If you want to exercise firmer personal boundaries? Then exercise them. They are things you set for yourself to obey so you can feel better.

You don't sound like you are used to doing that, so could expect some discomfort as you learn how. Be ok with that.


You wanted a week break. That is the personal boundary. So wait til Wed to contact Ponytail. It helps that you have a therapy appoint Monday to help tide you over.


You have other things to attend to in the meanwhile.

In writing that out, I realize that it sounds insane. I have a husband, two small children, two jobs, a volunteer gig, and a household....there are plenty of things that, if I was giving them all adequate attention, would limit my relationship with Ponytail. I don't need to add another partner into the mix in order to do that....

Stop sitting around spinning the anxiety wheel. Go attend to your things instead. You can do your unpacking with the therapist. In the meanwhile, do other stuff. If you want life balance, you cannot spend all your time doing mental gymnastics.


I do think I might want to explore a relationship with Laptop.

That is fine. But it doesn't have to happen right this minute. Learn to pace things out.

Maybe the best course of action would be to ask Ponytail for a longer break, explore a relationship with Laptop, and see if a more casual/less intense relationship with Laptop yields me with a more balanced lifestyle. Maybe there's no way to really dial back my relationship with Ponytail. Maybe I need to find a new person in order to get the life balance I need.

It could happen that way. Or it could be another Ponytail thing adding to your stress. Or it could be something else entirely. The only realistic thing to say about it is "It will be something... but I won't know the outcome ahead of time."

Since your plate is pretty full right now and you enjoy Laptop as a chat buddy? Make a personal boundary to leave it there for now -- just chat buddies. And then obey your personal boundary.

Seek to TAKE AWAY from your stress and anxiety load. Not ADD.

Galagirl
 
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Agree with everything galagirl said, and wanted to add to that by saying that adding another partner won't fix things with ponytail, nor does it make sense to date someone just because you can and you're poly. If you feel like you don't have time, trust your gut.

If you feel like you're spending all your time talking to Laptop about poly stuff and not learning about each other, then make a point to talk about each other and interests. You don't have to be dating or in a relationship to get to know him. You can do that now as friends and then make a decision.

I definitely can see you waffling on your boundaries though because you are feeling like you have to take action now. Stick to your boundaries and learn to let things play out. It's not always about taking action. That sounds exhausting and no wonder you're feeling run down!
 
I wish I knew how to date....

I got together with Laptop today. Nothing happened. I was prepared for the possibility and maybe picked up on a few possible hints that he was suggesting taking the friendship in that direction...but I was feeling too conflicted so I just let it be. On several occasions I considered directly asking if he was interested in exploring a relationship together. But then I remembered how much I was going through right now and thought better of it.

Now that I am back home — and likely to not see him again for another month — I am feeling some regrets. I do like him on a more personal level — we talked more about shared interests this time. I also met his wife, who I liked much more in person than I expected to.

Anyway, I am confused about my feelings toward him. And wondering if I am just spinning around in circles because I am confused in general and nervous about how reconnecting with Ponytail after the break is going to go.
 
Not sure if we’ll make it ....

I sent Ponytail my list of boundaries in an email so that he could think through them before we meet up at his therapist appointment tomorrow. He agreed with most of them, but struggled with the ones that involved reduced time together (that I wanted to dial things back to only seeing each other once a week and that I wanted to have the agreement that we could take periodic breaks) and the one that specified that he not fixate in his own disappointment when I set boundaries for my own needs.

This is exactly what my therapist had worried about — she had said that asking to take steps backwards would be really hard for him and that, while it was okay to have my boundaries, they might not work for THIS relationship. Ultimately, she said Ponytail copes with his mental health through connection to a partner and I deal with my mental health through space and separation. Asking him to be okay with periodic breaks is going to send him into a tailspin of anxiety, wondering if he’s going to say the wrong thing and cause me to take another break — which, has already been super difficult for him.

This was pretty much exactly the concern that he raised in his response to my email. He was already starting to panic about what would and wouldn’t cause me to refuse to talk to him for a week again.

My therapist said that I needed to find a way to be able to get the mental space that I needed while still being able to be connected and not on a total break. It wasn’t fair to him to expect to shut off all communication at the drop of a hat and that setting that as an expectation was going to be damaging to us long-term. But I don’t know how to get that mental space while still being connected.

She also said it wasn’t fair to dial things back to one date per week. That I might wish that we had moved slower, but that it was kind of too late to go backwards now. That’s not how Ponytail put it, but it was similar — that not being with me is what triggers their anxiety and increasing time apart would be bad for their mental health. (Which, in my mind is related to what my therapist said, since if we hadn’t set the expectation of 2-3 contact days per week in the first place, he wouldn’t be feeling that as an anxiety-producing loss now....it would have just been the status quo.)

I feel like I am going to throw up. I don’t see a way forward and I really want to....
 
Did you therapist talk to you at all about what would be best for YOU?

This is what Laptop said too.

I think what she is trying to get me to realize is that my mental health needs and Ponytail’s mental health needs are incongruous. That if what I need is space, then Ponytail is not the person I should be with. I think she ultimately thinks that the best thing for me is to go separate ways — which is why I am worried that there is no way forward in this relationship. I either need to change the way that I cope with my anxiety in response to Ponytail, or I need to recognize that Ponytail is not going to be able to change without sacrificing his own mental health — either way, we won’t be healthy for each other.
 
Maybe I misread some of that.... It's like the therapist is focusing on Ponytail's health and well being rather than yours. :confused:

You do what you need to be healthy. And if he is not up for that, it is on him to say "I'm not up for that. We are not compatible."

Or you could say that "You need frequent connection, and I need periodic breaks... So we are not actually compatible for dating."

I think you could stop bending selves into anxiety pretzels over it. Stop trying to fly a kite that won't fly. :(

She also said it wasn’t fair to dial things back to one date per week. That I might wish that we had moved slower, but that it was kind of too late to go backwards now

I disagree. It is NOT too late. Your consent to participate in things belongs to YOU.

With her logic, if I agree to share sex with you, and then change my mind part way for whatever reason, I'm not allowed to change my mind and say no to you. I have to keep on with the sex? That's messed up.

In your situation? You can only give what you can give without dinging your own health. He might not like you offering to do once a week, but it is fair for you to say what you are willing and able to give at this time. If all you can give at this time is once a week and still be healthy, then that's all you can give and still be healthy.

You do not subsume your own health and well being to the relationship. I'm surprised your therapist sounds like they want you to keep on doing stuff that is burning you out.

I think what she is trying to get me to realize is that my mental health needs and Ponytail’s mental health needs are incongruous.

Well, she could ask you that more directly. "If you need this for your mental health and he needs that... do you see this relationship as compatible or incompatible?"

I think she ultimately thinks that the best thing for me is to go separate ways — which is why I am worried that there is no way forward in this relationship. I either need to change the way that I cope with my anxiety in response to Ponytail, or I need to recognize that Ponytail is not going to be able to change without sacrificing his own mental health — either way, we won’t be healthy for each other.

The spectrum of

independent/space <-------> togetherness

matters in relationship compatibility.

If you are a 1 or a 2 and super duper independent and he is a 9 or 10 and super into "togetherness" ....

If you do what you need to feel mentally well and have lots of time alone and feel ok then he is going to feel lonely/bad.

If you do what he needs and do all this togetherness stuff, he will feel ok, but then you feel bad.


If you were like a 4.... and he was like a 7.... ok. That gap might be doable and some compromises could be made that both sides could feel ok about.

But a gap between a 1 and 10 or even 2 and 9 might just be too big a gap to bridge. Rather than beat head on wall about it, could accept it. Then take next steps.

Galagirl
 
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Well, she could ask you that more directly. "If you need this for your mental health and he needs that... do you see this relationship as compatible or incompatible?"


Galagirl


I think she did frame it just about exactly like that. I think I am hesitant to provide the answer to the question because I am holding out hope that he will magically decide that it is worth it to see me one time a week than not at all.

Basically, I think what she's saying is that I can put out my list of "demands" but ultimately I am only in charge of my own behavior. With a ton of work on myself, I could potentially change the way that I respond to Ponytail's anxiety, or I can decide that we are incompatible..... but I am not capable of changing Ponytail and convincing him that one time a week is what would work for him and I need to give up on the hope that he will be happy with that arrangement. She's not really saying that I need to acquiesce to his needs, but rather that I shouldn't carry on hoping for him to give up his needs anymore than I am willing to give up my needs.
 
She's not really saying that I need to acquiesce to his needs, but rather that I shouldn't carry on hoping for him to give up his needs anymore than I am willing to give up my needs.

Thank you for clarifying. That makes more sense.

She's right. You cannot keep on this way -- reaching for straws hoping things without foundation. All it does is ding you further and extend the suffering.

Ball is in his court. Once a week is enough for him or not.

If yes, you work something out.

If not, you both deal with a break up. Not everyone you date will be a long haul runner. And I'm saying that kindly. I get that this is super hard for you right now. :eek:

To me you sound like you think the odds are looking pretty strong like this is just not destined to be a long haul a runner... but you are not at final acceptance about it yet.

I think she did frame it just about exactly like that. I think I am hesitant to provide the answer to the question because I am holding out hope that he will magically decide that it is worth it to see me one time a week than not at all.

That part sounds to me like you are at the bargaining stage... trying to hold out hope that something "magic" will happen.

He still has to tell you if he's up for once a week or not... it sounds like you know he's probably going to say no.

Then you may have to work on reaching final acceptance rather than keep coming up with "new bargains" to avoid thinking about parting ways and avoid doing your grief process.

You seem to acknowledge that going in this wonky way is not healthy for either you or Ponytail. If the final answer is not what you hoped for... that is disappointing. You will have to do your self care and work through your grief process with your counselor's support.

Perhaps it at your next therapy session you could talk to her about processing the stages of grief and moving through them?

Galagirl
 
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Am I Paranoid?

Ponytail and I tried talking last night, in advance of our scheduled appointment (which will be this afternoon) with their therapist. We tried to talk about some of his concerns around his needs and things spiraled out of control from there. All of a sudden I was crying profusely and feeling unloved and manipulated.

Basically as I was trying to ask him why he needed to see me more than once a week (in an effort to see what other ways he could meet his needs without me), he described how he needed physical touch and contact, that it releases endorphins that help him manage anxiety/depression.

This seems like a fairly clinical description of my role in his life. I tried to not overthink it and said something to the effect of, "Well, if hugs are what you need, who else could you go to for a hug?" Friends? Parents? No and no. I am the only person in his life who he can hug.

I may be paranoid, but this sent me into a total breakdown. I began to paint a picture of our entire relationship in my head. One in which he (consciously or unconsciously) became attached to me and put me on a pedestal and told me how amazing I was and how much he loved me -- all as an effort to escalate and intensify our relationship so that I would spend time with him and be an anesthetic to his depression. Essentially, he was self-medicating with me as the treatment.

Sobbing after I got off the phone with Ponytail, I told Glasses this and he said that my picture of the events seemed a bit extreme. From everything he had seen, he believed Ponytail really loved me... but he did acknowledge that it was possible that Ponytail had developed an unhealthy attachment to me.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just freaking out because I feel backed into a corner. I just feel like, if Ponytail really loved me, why would he put his mental health above mine? Especially after I have tried so hard to be supportive of his mental health? Doesn't he realize that it's my turn to get what I need?
 
I don't think you are being paranoid or extreme.

I think you are faced with stuff you do not want to have happening, but it IS happening. And perhaps you are seeing Ponytail in a new, clearer light and not liking what you see.


One in which he (consciously or unconsciously) became attached to me and put me on a pedestal and told me how amazing I was and how much he loved me -- all as an effort to escalate and intensify our relationship so that I would spend time with him and be an anesthetic to his depression. Essentially, he was self-medicating with me as the treatment.

This may very well be what IS happening. Lured you in by love bombing you, and is now sucking you dry. You got/are getting used.

That's is not a good feeling. I am very sorry you are hurting right now on the realization this is happening. :(

At the same time... I'm glad you see more clearly. This gives you a chance to get OUT and stop being hurt. Rather than continue on this path.

You can care about someone or love them a whole lot. But not even for them should you ding your own health or neglect your self care.

If what you need is to dial down to 1 time a week or plain break up? YOU get on with doing what you need to do so you can be healthy. Let the chips fall where they may.

This seems like a fairly clinical description of my role in his life. I tried to not overthink it and said something to the effect of, "Well, if hugs are what you need, who else could you go to for a hug?" Friends? Parents? No and no. I am the only person in his life who he can hug.

Why are you doing his thinking work for him? Why is that your job? Isn't figuring out who else he can hug HIS job? Why is it your job to be his life coach or free therapist? :confused:

Maybe I'm just freaking out because I feel backed into a corner. I just feel like, if Ponytail really loved me, why would he put his mental health above mine? Especially after I have tried so hard to be supportive of his mental health? Doesn't he realize that it's my turn to get what I need?

Point blank? No. You do not get a turn from Ponytail. If his goal is to use you as a Life Raft Person or as stand in medication rather than deal with his depression appropriately? You exist in this dynamic to serve. You do not get to receive.

If you have decided it is time for YOU to give you a turn? For you to meet your own needs first and stop attending to him and all his stuff first? Stop doing self neglect? It's ok for you to decide that. Self care is not "being selfish." It's necessary.

Just like on a plane. You have to put your own oxygen mask on first before you can try to help others. Otherwise you will keel over from lack of air. I think that is why you feel backed into a corner. No air here.

If you decide it is your turn from YOU? You can stop participating in this dynamic in favor of attending to your own self care and meet your need to be free of perpetual anxiety roller coaster.

If you are spending too much energy here for little return? Stop. Do nothing. Let go. Stop buying a ticket to this ride.

Sometimes you just have to let go of the rope.

Galagirl
 
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Basically as I was trying to ask him why he needed to see me more than once a week (in an effort to see what other ways he could meet his needs without me), he described how he needed physical touch and contact, that it releases endorphins that help him manage anxiety/depression.

This seems like a fairly clinical description of my role in his life. I tried to not overthink it and said something to the effect of, "Well, if hugs are what you need, who else could you go to for a hug?" Friends? Parents? No and no. I am the only person in his life who he can hug.

I may be paranoid, but this sent me into a total breakdown.

I don't think it's paranoid to be questioning ponytail's logic or inner motives in the situation. However from your descriptions of him, even if this is what's happening I don't know that it's intentional on his part but rather just how his inner script plays out. From your descriptions of him, he seems riddled with insecurity and anxiety.

I think the biggest issue is beyond how many days you do or don't see him- it's with what he's asking of you. It's one thing to ask a partner for support as you work through behavioral health issues however it's an entirely different thing to ask you to be the solution. Just as a thought experiment, replace "needing touch from you in order to release endorphins manage his anxiety" with "needs heroin/alcohol/meth/ to release endorphins to manage his anxiety." It's a crutch, putting responsibility for resolving his anxiety on something else rather than doing the work necessary to learn the healthy, appropriate coping skills he needs to manage his anxiety. At this point he's asking you to enable his status quo rather asking you for support as he struggles on his journey to manage his anxiety.

Sorry if this isn't easy to hear but I don't think he's capable of "giving you your turn" at this point because it doesn't sound like he's even capable of loving and caring for himself. I believe in his heart he does love you but is incapable of being in mutually supportive, caring relationship with you at this point because he's too mired in his own issues to even be able to truly hear you and will continue melt down at any attempt by you to set a boundary that is appropriate for you.
 
Refusnik is right and very eloquent; Ponytail is completely incapable of really taking your needs into consideration. He is not "hearing" your boundaries; all he is hearing is that he isn't going to have HIS needs taken care of.

It's hard enough to get through life without the burden of being someone's "crutch."
 
Rollercoasters are the worst

So I went to Ponytail's therapy appointment. By the time I drove down there (there was snow and heavy traffic), I was thinking in a more level-headed manner. I felt like I was ready to explain what I had been feeling and was hoping that the therapist would understand and help Ponytail understand too.

She didn't. It was awful. She basically kept interrupting me and rationalizing his way of thinking and telling me that I just needed to get better at setting boundaries -- that Ponytail would have plenty of tools in their toolbox to take care of himself. When I explained that it would be wonderful if that were the case, but that that wasn't what Ponytail was telling me -- that he was telling me that I was the only one who could meet his needs and wouldn't let me off the phone, she interrupted and said, "Did he threaten you?" I said no, but he kept trying to negotiate and not simply accept what I was asking for. She said, "Oh, well, if he's not threatening you, then you just need to hang up the phone."

I explained that hanging up on a person wasn't my idea of a healthy relationship. That what I wanted was for Ponytail to accept my boundaries and not try to redirect the conversation to his own feelings. That I felt like he was always putting his needs first. That I felt like he didn't care about me and just wanted to use me to self-medicate. She kept interrupting me, saying that Ponytail loved me, that she knew that he loved me because he had told her that, that his talk of endorphins was just his way of looking at love from a scientific perspective, etc. I couldn't get a word in edgewise. She just kept belittling me.

I started crying. I felt so unheard.

She just looked at me for awhile and then flatly said, "So, can you do that? Can you just hang up the phone? Can you do that right now?"

I said, "Well, for starters, we aren't on the phone right now."

She chirped, "Well, you could leave. You could walk out."

So I did. I had been in this appointment for all of 5-10 min and she had undermined me so much that I was out of there and back home (despite the snowstorm and traffic on the highway) before it was even scheduled to end. It was a huge waste of my time.

I went home and cried. I sobbed. I went to bed and woke up at 2am and cried some more.

At some point, though, I realized that I didn't even know what part of my anger was towards Ponytail and what part was towards the therapist. I also realized that this wasn't the way I wanted our relationship to end -- that I didn't even know if it had ended, even though I was already mourning the loss of the relationship. I needed to talk to him without her interrupting me. I needed to do this when I was calm.

I texted this morning and said that, at some point, I wanted to talk and explain things without her there. He has tomorrow off and I don't work in the mornings, so I suggested tomorrow morning, but said it was okay if it was too soon. He said that he wanted to check in in the morning and decide then. He also said that he had realized that I was right, that he should give me space when I ask for it.

So we'll just have to see. I am encouraged by the fact that he wanted to check in in the morning -- that he didn't just agree to see me automatically. It gives me some hope that he is realizing that he needs to take care of his own emotions and be in a good place before we talk.

I am going to assemble all the things I want to give him (his Christmas present, some books that I bought about relationships when struggling with depression), with the assumption that tomorrow may be the last time I see him. But if we are able to figure out a way out of this, I'd like to try.
 
Ugh, time for a new therapist. I'm sorry, that sounds horrible. It's not necessary for therapists to agree with us but compassion and a willingness to see the different sides of a relationship are really important. I'm sorry this therapist failed at that.

I hope you get the closure or next steps you want with Ponytail.
 
I explained that hanging up on a person wasn't my idea of a healthy relationship. That what I wanted was for Ponytail to accept my boundaries and not try to redirect the conversation to his own feelings.

First, I'm sorry you felt ignored, belittled and unheard. That can't have been easy and likely was the last thing you expected.

That said, I get why you feel that's not a healthy relationship but I also think whether she meant to or not, the therapist was giving you some good advice even if it was hard to hear. Hanging up on someone is healthier than staying on the phone with someone while they try to negotiate the boundary you just set. As I read it, you want ponytail to not only respect the boundary but also, regarding his own emotional state, suddenly see the light, fully comprehending why you're asking for this and not make it about him. You want his emotional state to change because you're setting a boundary but honestly that's not what setting a boundary is about. You're setting this boundary to ensure your own emotional health and safety which means he really has two choices: accept and honor the boundary (a healthy, functional choice) or do what he did- make it about him, try to push the boundary back, and put his mental health in your hands (an unhealthy, dysfunctional choice.)

So in this light, hanging up on him would have been a healthy choice because in essence he's saying "I know you need this for your emotional health and safety but here's how and why that's wrong…" It's enforcing your boundary. Whether or not he accepts the boundary it's up to you to enforce it. From your descriptions of him, ponytail strikes me as someone that has poor or sloppy boundaries, including holding his partner responsible for his emotional state. You've also noted that you have a hard time with boundaries. Combine this mutual struggle with boundaries and you end up with what you had- not only having someone argue with you about what you need, but also you feeling some obligation to listen to it. In this case, having you hang up on him may have been exactly what he needs to get a grip on what a boundary is. Having someone state and enforce a boundary could be a very important life lesson for him.

I mean this quite seriously- hanging up on him is probably exactly what the situation needed to move past the emotional mire the relationship is in. Of course I'm sure even the thought of it is frightening. Learning to enforce tough boundaries with people that we love can be a scary process. But it's worth it because it sends a clear message that you value your emotional health and safety, that anybody that wants to be with has to value it too.



That I felt like he was always putting his needs first. That I felt like he didn't care about me and just wanted to use me to self-medicate. She kept interrupting me, saying that Ponytail loved me, that she knew that he loved me because he had told her that, that his talk of endorphins was just his way of looking at love from a scientific perspective, etc. I couldn't get a word in edgewise. She just kept belittling me...

...I am going to assemble all the things I want to give him (his Christmas present, some books that I bought about relationships when struggling with depression), with the assumption that tomorrow may be the last time I see him. But if we are able to figure out a way out of this, I'd like to try.

Do you actually doubt that he loves you? I don't, despite not knowing him, that doesn't seem in doubt. The issue is, what does loving you actually mean to him?
Is he able to form healthy attachments to his partners or do his unresolved behavioral health issues make it nearly impossible for him to do that? Love for someone else can inspire us but ultimately, it won't resolve our issues. Only loving yourself will do that.

So if it's the latter, ask yourself if that's something you want in a partner? As much as we might like to, we can't really separate the person we love from the issues they bring to the table. Does this relationship bring joy and peaceful times to your life or do you feel trapped under a blanket of sadness and constant emotional processing? As another thought experiment ask yourself, other than "love", what's he's bringing into your life? Are the net positives worth driving in a snow storm with tears in your eyes? Do you enjoy crying at 2 am? Is having someone attempt to beat back an expressed boundary exhilarating or crazy making?

Once again, I am sorry that you're going through such a tough, emotionally trying time. I hope that you can figure your way out of this in a way that protects your emotional safety.
 
First, I'm sorry you felt ignored, belittled and unheard. That can't have been easy and likely was the last thing you expected.

That said, I get why you feel that's not a healthy relationship but I also think whether she meant to or not, the therapist was giving you some good advice even if it was hard to hear. Hanging up on someone is healthier than staying on the phone with someone while they try to negotiate the boundary you just set. As I read it, you want ponytail to not only respect the boundary but also, regarding his own emotional state, suddenly see the light, fully comprehending why you're asking for this and not make it about him. You want his emotional state to change because you're setting a boundary but honestly that's not what setting a boundary is about. You're setting this boundary to ensure your own emotional health and safety which means he really has two choices: accept and honor the boundary (a healthy, functional choice) or do what he did- make it about him, try to push the boundary back, and put his mental health in your hands (an unhealthy, dysfunctional choice.)

So in this light, hanging up on him would have been a healthy choice because in essence he's saying "I know you need this for your emotional health and safety but here's how and why that's wrong…" It's enforcing your boundary. Whether or not he accepts the boundary it's up to you to enforce it. From your descriptions of him, ponytail strikes me as someone that has poor or sloppy boundaries, including holding his partner responsible for his emotional state. You've also noted that you have a hard time with boundaries. Combine this mutual struggle with boundaries and you end up with what you had- not only having someone argue with you about what you need, but also you feeling some obligation to listen to it. In this case, having you hang up on him may have been exactly what he needs to get a grip on what a boundary is. Having someone state and enforce a boundary could be a very important life lesson for him.

I mean this quite seriously- hanging up on him is probably exactly what the situation needed to move past the emotional mire the relationship is in. Of course I'm sure even the thought of it is frightening. Learning to enforce tough boundaries with people that we love can be a scary process. But it's worth it because it sends a clear message that you value your emotional health and safety, that anybody that wants to be with has to value it too.





Do you actually doubt that he loves you? I don't, despite not knowing him, that doesn't seem in doubt. The issue is, what does loving you actually mean to him?
Is he able to form healthy attachments to his partners or do his unresolved behavioral health issues make it nearly impossible for him to do that? Love for someone else can inspire us but ultimately, it won't resolve our issues. Only loving yourself will do that.

So if it's the latter, ask yourself if that's something you want in a partner? As much as we might like to, we can't really separate the person we love from the issues they bring to the table. Does this relationship bring joy and peaceful times to your life or do you feel trapped under a blanket of sadness and constant emotional processing? As another thought experiment ask yourself, other than "love", what's he's bringing into your life? Are the net positives worth driving in a snow storm with tears in your eyes? Do you enjoy crying at 2 am? Is having someone attempt to beat back an expressed boundary exhilarating or crazy making?

Once again, I am sorry that you're going through such a tough, emotionally trying time. I hope that you can figure your way out of this in a way that protects your emotional safety.

Thank you. Your thoughts and questions are giving me a lot to think about.
 
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