fluid bonding/bareback

As to HSV, I had quite the panic when I asked Ray, while he was still overseas, what had happened to his lip and he said it was just a cold sore. I said "Um, when were you planning on telling me you have herpes?!"

Growing up, no one in my family got cold sores and I can only recall one, maybe two people I knew who did. As an adult, if I even take notice of someone having a scab on their face, I would not generally think "herpes!" Ray, however, does not know of anyone who does not have it.

Tam and I went and got tested for HSV (and the rest of the STIs) with somewhat the hope that one of us already had it in asymptomatic form so it would not be a problem. Of course we tested clear. Through all this I was madly researching HSV trying to figure out what to do. A lot of the stuff one finds on first searching is worrisome, especially to a parent. I kept reading that one can get it from random surfaces, or breathing air the infected person has coughed or sneezed into.

Ray went in to the doctor to see if they would prescribe the medicine that reduces the frequency and duration of outbreaks. They were nonplussed. He had to explain to the age 30 something medical personnel that before AIDS, herpes was the scary, incurable, STI. They basically said "Most everyone has it. It is not dangerous under the circumstances. Don't be worrying about it."

I eventually found the saner discussions of the transmission and symptoms of herpes (turns out a lot of the scary information can be traced back to a NY Times article, I don't know where they got their information). Tam and I decided that we did not want to lose Ray over it, our kids might get it from their first romantic relationship anyway, so we would just be minimally careful and leave it at that.

leetah
 
I get tested always before a new partner goes bareback, and generally a month to three months after as well. I don't NOT use a condom until my partner has a clean test and I trust them not to be lying to me about their other or previous partners.

My regular doctor will do the exams but if I want blood tests I go to the lab in the same building. My insurance covers one free test a year, so if I am sleeping with a lot of new people, that means it costs me a bit.

I have only had the herpes test a couple of times and I had to specifically ask it be done. Both times I tested clear for 1 and 2. I was pretty shocked because I certainly have had partners and friends with cold sores. But, as far as I know, I still am negative on both of those!
 
It's interesting that very few people pop for the HSV tests, considering they are the most common and not curable. Many people who have it don't realize it because they never show symptoms.

I consulted with my doctor, and HSV mostly only turns into a problem if you have a compromised immune system or have a genital variety+pregnancy. Since I don't have the first or want the second, it's a lot of extra cost for something that has very little benefit... especially since unless my partners know to specifically ask for a HSV test, they aren't testing for it either.

It might be common and incurable, but as far as impacting my quality of life goes, I'm a lot more concerned about HIV and some strains of HPV. Not that I would ridicule anyone who IS concerned about herpes. I just personally don't consider the test to be enough of a benefit for the cost.
 
I have only had the herpes test a couple of times and I had to specifically ask it be done. Both times I tested clear for 1 and 2. I was pretty shocked because I certainly have had partners and friends with cold sores. But, as far as I know, I still am negative on both of those!

That's because the virus spreads via direct contact with the "sores" (site where it is erupting, or shedding). Even then, the sore or site of eruption would have to come into contact with someone's mucous membranes (mouth, nose, ears, throat, genitals, butthole) or an area of skin that has a cut, scratch, or abrasion of some sort. Just because someone has it doesn't mean they will infect someone else, even though it's possible they can. Lots of people have HSV but won't infect anyone if they hook up when the virus is not shedding, or if they are careful not to make contact if they have visible sores, not to share towels, etc. The trick is that sometimes you're shedding but don't know it yet. The good thing, though, is it is less likely to shed as you get older. Oh, and once HSV reaches the surface of the body, it can be killed with soap.

The virus erupts mostly due to stress, and it sheds or erupts in search of something, I forget if it's an amino acid or what. But it always follows the same path from the spinal cord where it lives, along the nervous system to the skin's surface, so people always get the sores in the same spot or spots (based on the nerve branches - it is not random), which is helpful when you want to avoid contact -- at least you know where it will pop up.

The antivirals for HSV "trick" the virus into thinking it is getting that thing it is looking for (aminos, or whatever it is), so it has no reason to come to the surface and will remain dormant. So, people who have HSV and are taking the antivirals regularly are pretty much as non-contagious as someone who doesn't have HSV.

Regarding testing, my Gyn does it for me and only tests for HSV2 because she says HSV1 is so, so common. But I do have to ask for it.
 
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I consulted with my doctor, and HSV mostly only turns into a problem if you have a compromised immune system or have a genital variety+pregnancy. Since I don't have the first or want the second, it's a lot of extra cost for something that has very little benefit... especially since unless my partners know to specifically ask for a HSV test, they aren't testing for it either.

It might be common and incurable, but as far as impacting my quality of life goes, I'm a lot more concerned about HIV and some strains of HPV. Not that I would ridicule anyone who IS concerned about herpes. I just personally don't consider the test to be enough of a benefit for the cost.

Fair point. I am not all that concerned myself. I've had two lovers who had HSV-2 and I never used condoms with them and never contracted it.
 
information)... our kids might get it from their first romantic relationship...

Or sharing a drink, food or a bong, you know. It's not just from kissing. Most people get it as little kids from sharing drinks, and/or sloppy kisses from a friend or relative.
 
STI Testing

There are also online resources for getting tested in case your shy or need a more convenient method. It is a little pricey (i.e. $200). You pay online then go to a local lab such as LabCorp and then get your results online.

Some people prefer not to disclose their lifestyle to their doctor or if you want to test more frequently then insurance pays its an option. You can select what tests you want done.
 
Before I was aware of the concept of fluid bonding, K's desire to fluid bond actually started the relationship between K and The Signal and I. Prior to that The Signal and I were just safe-sex partner-swapping (and other things) with K and E. Then during the middle of an act with K, she said just loud enough for me to hear "I want to (perform an act on you which is definitely not safe sex)!" To which I responded, "Well I want to (perform an act on her which is definitely not safe sex)!" I can imagine what then would have happened had The Signal and E not been in the same room. Anyway, when I talked to The Signal about that later, she thought K might want a bit more out of us than just the odd fumble in a hotel room. That turned out to be correct.

Our relationship did change for the better after we had fluid bonded. Of course after we'd waited over two months for test results K promptly cheated on us within the month, which ended all that.
 
Let me say that I am a devoted user of condoms. It's primarily for birth control, but I also like to save my lover the trouble of major cleanup.

But I have a prejudice. Over the years, I've become deeply suspicious of "fluid bonding" because I've met so many nimrods who get in my face about it. As to their nimrodishness: they rant & holler about how "safe" they are, yet (IME) easily half look puzzled when I ask whether they use barriers for ALL oral sex.

(And as far as herpes goes, does anyone here actually kiss through Saran Wrap...?)

One pinhead in particular, after loudly putting me down at a party for refusing to sign his "condom compact" sheet, soon thereafter got one of my friends pregnant in a one-night stand... which he'd neglected to tell either of his polyfidelitous girlfriends about.:p
 
It makes me happy to see so many not-that-concerned people here with regard to HSV. I've got a close family member who has been telling me about her case of it since I was 14, and paranoid to guard me against catching it from towels or whatever in her home, and yet from everything she ever told me, the only really awful part about it was having to tell potential partners and the fear and stigma involved in that. Her descriptions of the symptoms...something kind of like a pimple every -several- months, she used Neosporin and it went away...that didn't sound like a huge deal to me. I get the complications with pregnancy and everything but otherwise... I don't know. I have dear friends who are "out" about having it (on FL and in the BDSM scene) and I'm proud of them, that they are that brave. For my relative, it was heart wrenching every time she had to "have the talk" with a new boyfriend. I've seen posts in another forum (about relationships) where people were all "eww, ick, disfiguring disease" and it makes me sad for those loved ones I know who carry this and deal with it.

I've tested recently, I asked for the HSV 1 and 2 tests, and I'm still shocked that they are clear, because I've had quite a few partners in my life and I know how common it is. My not having it is statistically improbable...and yet.

The married couple I'm involved with has an agreement to be fluid bonded to only one another. However, the Analyst and I are f.b. as are my Zen Sadist and I... Fortunately I don't concern myself much with birth control since I had my tubal ligation done last summer. I had to get away from hormonal birth control, the side effects were killin' me!
 
I'm concerned -- not panicky.:D

FWIW, it's been estimated that at least 50% of the United States population is positive for HSV-1, "oral herpes." The actual count could be 80%.

Per Wikipedia: in the U.S., HSV-2, "genital herpes," is likely in 21% of women & 11.5% of men. An estimated 85% don't know it (or are ignoring it); another study concludes that 60% of women who test positive have never had an outbreak.

I use the quotemarks above because common belief is that HSV-1 only shows up in the labial area & HSV-2 only shows up in the genital area. I thought that was disproven in the 1980s, but I can't find a reference. However, W'pedia does say
As in the U.S., HSV-1 is increasingly identified as the cause of genital herpes in Australians; HSV-1 was identified in the anogenital area of only 3% of the population in 1980, but had risen to 41% in 2001.
Speaking of Australia,
the seroprevalence of HSV-1 is 76.5%, with differences associated with age, gender and Indigenous status. An estimated 12% of Australian adults are seropositive for HSV-2
Often recurring is that the infection rate among women is roughly double that of men.
 
I'm concerned -- not panicky.:D

FWIW, it's been estimated that at least 50% of the United States population is positive for HSV-1, "oral herpes." The actual count could be 80%.

Per Wikipedia: in the U.S., HSV-2, "genital herpes," is likely in 21% of women & 11.5% of men. An estimated 85% don't know it (or are ignoring it); another study concludes that 60% of women who test positive have never had an outbreak.

I use the quotemarks above because common belief is that HSV-1 only shows up in the labial area & HSV-2 only shows up in the genital area. I thought that was disproven in the 1980s, but I can't find a reference. However, W'pedia does say
Speaking of Australia,
Often recurring is that the infection rate among women is roughly double that of men.

I'm just protective of my family and friends. It makes me mad to hear people say things as though they are lepers or something. Especially when these viral strains are pretty common, not deadly, and not even that disfiguring, and now there are meds that can suppress the symptoms. People say things that are potentially hurtful to the ones I love, and for what seems to me like no real good reason.

If that makes any sense?

Really even the words, "herpes" and "outbreak" in my thinking make it sound worse than it is. The one sounds nasty (phonetically) and the other sounds like some kind of deadly epidemic like in an apocalyptic movie. I don't like that either. Human beings are crawling with microbial life. Human bodies get little imperfections and blemishes that come and go. Sure, I think it's nice I tested negative, but if I hadn't, I wouldn't have considered it the end of the world.

Anyways, like many subjects, I'm finding here that poly folks are conversing about this in more sensible, factual, and nonjudgmental ways than most "vanilla normal" folks I've known. I just wanted to make the point that I appreciate that.
 
Who the fuck goes around at parties asking people to sign shit like that?
Hey, we're on the same page here. :cool:

The answer is recent converts. IME, it's easy to tell who's most recently "seen the light" (whether neopaganism, leather, queer politics, science fiction fandom, even Judaism): those individuals who are most rip-snortin' in their demands for freedom-at-any-cost & Being Publicly Activist & "routing the reactionary elements from our cadres" & all such empty chatter, halfway between Carrie Nation & Typhoid Mary. Given a chance, they'll utterly wreck any extant group they're allowed to control, before moving on to their next Moral Crusade.

Unfortunately, in our culture of Enforced Niceness ("be pleasant or we'll beat you"), most of the group will defend the pinheads' "right to be heard" merely because they believe that most of the group WANTS the pinheads to be there, when (again IME) most actually dearly wish they'd shut up & leave because they're a total buzzkill at ANY party.

Before it gets totally lost to the dust of Time, here's the CAW Condom Compact that the aforementioned pinheads were trotting around as though they'd written it themselves rather than photocopied it from the magazine.
http://caw.org/content/?q=condom
 
Let me say that I am a devoted user of condoms. It's primarily for birth control, but I also like to save my lover the trouble of major cleanup.

But I have a prejudice. Over the years, I've become deeply suspicious of "fluid bonding" because I've met so many nimrods who get in my face about it. As to their nimrodishness: they rant & holler about how "safe" they are, yet (IME) easily half look puzzled when I ask whether they use barriers for ALL oral sex.

(And as far as herpes goes, does anyone here actually kiss through Saran Wrap...?)

One pinhead in particular, after loudly putting me down at a party for refusing to sign his "condom compact" sheet, soon thereafter got one of my friends pregnant in a one-night stand... which he'd neglected to tell either of his polyfidelitous girlfriends about.:p

I belong to a poly FB group that has a lot of young people. They are constantly ranting about safer sex to the point you can easily imagine them wearing a whole body condom. Recently someone put up a survey to determine the group's attitude toward HSV and safer sex. The results were interesting. Overall, people were more inclined to have unprotected oral sex than vaginal or anal. Nearly three times as likely, whether they or their partner tested positive or not.
 
So I'm curious where others draw the line on new partners with exactly when to use condoms and when not to... Just read the reply about about frequency of genital herpes, etc. as well as some of the responses to that. My wife is no longer on the pill and I've been snipped, but we are certainly use condoms for intercourse now and would only consider not using them if she went on the pill or was with someone who had been snipped, and with regular testing and agreements... but can't really imagine using condoms or oral dams for oral or her or for me... just kinda ruins it. I know its a risk, but seems worthwhile as oral is so much fun.... What do other think?
 
Overall, people were more inclined to have unprotected oral sex than vaginal or anal. Nearly three times as likely, whether they or their partner tested positive or not.
I am not that well educated here, how big the actual probability to catch herpes through oral sex compared to genital sex? As I understood there is a possibility to get HSV 1/2 in the less common area, but I thougt it was much less likely.
 
I am not that well educated here, how big the actual probability to catch herpes through oral sex compared to genital sex? As I understood there is a possibility to get HSV 1/2 in the less common area, but I thougt it was much less likely.

I have read that many cases of what people THINK is genital herpes (HSV2) is actually and in fact oral herpes (HSV1) giving them symptoms in the genital area. That HSV1 can be transmitted oral-to-oral, oral-to-genital, genital-to-oral, genital-to-genital, etc. In a way, it's worse. Actually I think it's considerably worse because not only does it more commonly present in another place, and can be contagious with different forms of contact, but with HSV2, if a person has an active sore, they don't necessarily broadcast it to the world, it's hidden. With HSV1, it's right out there on your face! If I had to hypothetically, deliberately choose to be exposed to one or the other, I know which one I'd pick.

And yet, funny enough, one is a dreaded incurable STD and the other is "just a cold sore."

Kind of silly if you ask me...
 
I'm not sure on the probability but it can happen. I'll share a little here, Cowboy (husband) & I both have hsv2. I have hsv1 as do Surfer & Pixie (BF & his wife). Cowboy tests negative for hsv1 & we've been together 18 years. Cowboy & I both take daily meds for suppression. All of us use condoms for intercourse outside of our respective spouses but do not use barriers for oral sex. To minimize risk no one kisses, oral or intercourse during an outbreak or if we have a tingling sensation which usually indicates viral shedding. Pixie & Surfer are both currently negative for hsv2 but both are aware of our status.

I've been with two people other than Cowboy in the past 18 years. I discussed my status prior to sexual relations so that they understood the risk. Even with medication & condom use I can still pass hsv2 to another person. I allow them to make an informed decision knowing that I could face rejection. Nothing is 100% but given the number of people who don't share their status or even get tested if you've had multiple partners you've likely been exposed to either type 1 or 2 at some point even if you didn't catch it. I just would not feel good about myself if I didn't share prior to sex.

Now as far as crossover between the two types what typically happens is an initial outbreak in the nonpreffered location & then it is not frequent that you would have another but that can happen. The other thing that can occur is viral shedding without symptoms.

My advice to others, get tested & be open with potential lovers about your status. If you're negative use safer sex practices but realize nothing is 100%. In the grand scheme of things hsv of either type is an annoyance. The exception is childbirth but your doctor can provide options for minimizing the risk to your baby.
 
So I'm curious where others draw the line on new partners with exactly when to use condoms and when not to... Just read the reply about about frequency of genital herpes, etc. as well as some of the responses to that. My wife is no longer on the pill and I've been snipped, but we are certainly use condoms for intercourse now and would only consider not using them if she went on the pill or was with someone who had been snipped, and with regular testing and agreements... but can't really imagine using condoms or oral dams for oral or her or for me... just kinda ruins it. I know its a risk, but seems worthwhile as oral is so much fun.... What do other think?

I am not that well educated here, how big the actual probability to catch herpes through oral sex compared to genital sex? As I understood there is a possibility to get HSV 1/2 in the less common area, but I thougt it was much less likely.

There are so many factors involved that is impossible to determine exact probability. Studies have shown that genital herpes from oral contact is on the rise among college students, most likely due to thinking they are safe. However, a person who is already infected with HSV1 is much less likely to get genital herpes from oral contact with someone who has HSV1. HSV1 is much more common than HSV2.
 
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