Polyamory in the Ancient Celts

TheWind

New member
I wish I had my library unpacked and did not work so much. In response to FallenAngel, There is much about the Celts that we don't know. They did inhabit much of Europe. Not only Ireland and Scotland, but France, Belguim, Spain and more. As for the way they lived, it is sparse, You have to remember that Christianity won the war for the soul of Europe and burned contradictory books. The various kings supported it because Christianity and monogamy were good for society. Celts left no great libraries that we have to research in.

I have looked for and read as much as I can and have what I believe are pieces of their life. When you live in mostly remote farms and small villages, rely on a close knit community, often inter-related. Customs as taking your brother's widow as your wife (as did the Israelites) to impregnating the widow that had no male heirs for your brother.

It was about survival and the family. Church and state can not have the family being strong. Strength was in family not country. KIngs did not like that. If the Scottish Clans had unified, England would be eating Haggis too.
 
I wish I had more time, this is from 700CE (AD) In a sense the Irish Lawyers are regarding The Old Testament (T*r*h) regarding polygamy.


There was a controversy amongst early Irish lawyers (about AD 700) as to whether monogamy or polygamy was the more proper and one clerical lawyer solved the problem by reference to the Old Testament: if the chosen of God (here he may be referring to the chosen people as a whole or merely to the Patriarchs, and the glossators of the text refer explicitly to Solomon, David and Jacob) lived in polygamy ‘it is not more difficult to condemn it than to praise it’

I appeal for leniency on how I post as I am new here. But the basic religious writing for three main religions is full of poly relationships. We even have the drama between Abraham, Sarah and Hagar. SO people are people and always have been. The V, the Triad, have been around forever. Probably in the same percentages. If people live together in 2s and 3s and more, it seems G*d never said no.

Adultery is the only thing that comes in the commandments. and it is more to property procession. IF you come and steal my wife, I will come and kill you. Makes for a community being a violent place, But if you marry my sister, even though you have one wife, take care of her, we are family.
 
Well researched and said,theWind! I'm also very interested in the very old history of human sociology,where todays MonoMisery comes from,what institutions encouraged it to get it established to have more power over the public etc. Your example from the bible (Poly Patriarchs) is always a good one to drop with hardline,monogamous Christians around. If a constructive discussion is possible,your example that the comandment against adultry is not nesessarily against poly,is a good one. Of course someone should not break into someone elses relationship,and needs a clear rule. But nowhere it says how many partners are allowed in the old testament as far as i know :) Yes i read as well that the old Celts and other old cultures ( as native indians etc) have been more poly orientated. Seems it was a huge benefit for tribes in regards for a lotvof dails aspects, like childcare etc.
 
THanks, it is an interest of mine. Be nice to be able to discuss it with others. I think that modern people want to downplay those that came before. My father was born in Scotland and I have been told I act like a Highlander/Celt. Even by a professor in college.

I am looking into the Catalonia, It is where my original ancestors came from. My name is not Gaelic, it is Latin. Also Catalonia was a place of trade, mercenaries' and especially the household guard to Kings David and Solomon
 
How do we know what little we know about the Celts? Do we use the Old Testament to model Celtic society?
 
How do we know what little we know about the Celts? Do we use the Old Testament to model Celtic society?
The Greeks and Romans wrote about the Celts, although they thought us barbaric. There are myths and epic poems around also. The Irish in particular give us some insight. We are also some 700 CE literature that refers to them. I wonder if some people think the Celts were a few scattered tribes. Much of Europe was Celtic lands. The Franks, the Belgaie, the Helvetians. Caesar wrote about the Celts.
 
Didn't the Celts inhabit most of Europe at one time?
 
Yes, the British Isles, France, Iberian Peninsula, Belgium, Switzerland Northern Italy. Galatia and a few others
 
What's left of Celtic culture today? Was it Christianity that erased that culture? Could present-day Ireland be considered Celtic?
 
What's left of Celtic culture today? Was it Christianity that erased that culture? Could present-day Ireland be considered Celtic?
Depending on the legends you subscribe too, with the family of Jesus spreading the word to the Isles. They would have predated Christianity and been Jewish. A friend who lived in Scotland and is Jewish, said he saw remnants of Judaism there. Jesus was never a Christian, he was a Jew, lived and died a Jew. Christianity as we know it came centuries after him. In the Celtic lands as elsewhere, when Christians came they imported the local religions and myths into their doctrine, Gods and goddesses often became Saints.
In Scotland, the clan system exists, Ireland, Breton and other places still hold Celtic traditions. Gaelic is spoken some places. Catalonia is seeking independence and they are starting to use their old language instead of Spanish. Laws were handed down, The Celtics had marriage laws that protected the Bride, especially if she was high born or wealthy.... a Pre Nup?
 
Hmmm, interesting ... sounds like Celtic culture is still alive.
 
we didn't die out, I was born pre-programmed, then again I am a first generation here and we have contact with the family. And I am from one of the two Templar Clans
 
I thought the Templars were a clerical order during the Crusades?
 
They started with 9 knights/monks. It was a religious martial order. Answering only to the Pope. They went to Jerusalem to the Stables of Solomon and instead of fighting they excavated in secrecy. They later became a potent military force and ran a very successful banking operation, since keeping your money and valuables in a fort with troops made sense.
Later a company of Templar Heavy Calvary turned the battle for Sir William Wallace at Stirling Bridge. They were sent by Clan Murray.
 
After the conflict with the King of France and his puppet Pope, the surviving members of the order fled to Scotland. Scotland was the only country that never persecuted Jews in Europe. The conflict with England made a military group, especially Heavy Calvary, very much welcome.
It is interesting that the Templars started in Southern France/Catalonia, a Celtic area, former Roman Provence that was heavily populated by Sephardic Jews. And many members of the House of David. This is where Jesus and his family traveled to. As Joseph of Arimethia was a tin merchant. And the tin trade was restricted to the royal family members
 
Interesting info; I did not know that.
 
The following is from a site I am reading, Nicole Evelina's Blog, while she is writing Fiction, she covers the historical basis. From different sources I have read, she is consistent, The Celts were more into protecting the citizens, children, and property rights. So I would say that the crude Barbarians that we are portrayed as is just to justify the actions of the victors, being the Romans and then the Christians:


"Celtic marriage was very different from what we think of today. It was very rarely done out of love, usually out of political gain for the families/tribes involved. It also was not a religious event, but a contractual agreement. (Celtic law is very complex, so what I’m going into here merely skims the surface. It’s based in Brehon Law, which is the only extant law we have for the Celtic people. It is known as the law of Ireland, but likely similar laws existed in Britain as well.) The laws governing marriage were set up to ensure children were protected (illegitimacy did not exist – more on that in a future post), make clear the rights of the husband and wife, and protect the property rights of both parties."
 
"[Marriage] was very rarely done out of love, usually out of political gain for the families/tribes involved. It also was not a religious event, but a contractual agreement.....The laws governing marriage were set up to ensure children were protected, ....make clear the rights of the husband and wife, and protect the property rights of both parties."

This pretty much describes marriage in every culture up until the early 20th Century. To base something so important as marriage on something so fleeting as romance and love was universally considered irresponsible and absurd. The only thing that stands out here is that women had property and protection (something the Jews also recognized thousands of years before most cultures.)

I'm interested to hear how the Celts dealt with "illegitimate" children, other than raising them in the tribe/town/extended family, as many societies have done/do. Did they not recognize bastards as being any different than others?
 
I want to read more on her blog. She does say that in her fiction she twists the history a little , but she does provide her sources
 
There are 10 different unions, mostly a pre-nup sort. But this one caught my eye. From the same source, but I have seen this before.
"The Celts were believers in polygamy, so second wives and concubines were common, especially before the Roman invasion of their native lands. Multiple husbands were less common, but not unheard of. There were even laws that stated a first wife could legally murder the second wife within the first three days of marriage! She would still have to pay a fine, but other than that she was within her rights. (Brehon Law used the payment of fines to solve just about every problem, from divorce to murder.) Some say this is where the tradition of a honeymoon, or a husband and second wife going away for the first few days of their marriage, originated. (Seriously, I couldn’t make this stuff up.) A chief wife had rights to her husband’s estate, while other wives were govered by informal contracts that often didn’t require the first wife to provide for them at all, or for the husband to leave them anything in the event of his death."
 
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