Hello, I'm new to this

Marja

New member
Hello,

I'm a newbie to all of this, though have researched it a lot.

Let me introduce myself, and explain the reason for my interest. I am a 45 year old woman, married, and have been in a monogamous relationship for 18 years with my husband.

However, nearly 2 years ago, I fell massively in lust with another guy, and he with me. At the time I was not happy in my marriage at all. So I told my husband, thinking my crush was a sign of something missing in my marriage. We had some counselling, and things improved somewhat, but my crush did not go, although I tried to end my fling plenty of times.

So, several months later I told my husband that my feelings for the other guy had not changed. He was devastated, angry, scared of losing me. The good thing was, we finally started to communicate more honestly with each other. I had felt very neglected in our relationship for a long time, he was always busy with work and friends, and I felt like the boring wife at home. I have come a long way since then, and have worked on my self-esteem, and do no longer fit in that role!

So we carried on for several more months, trying to get close again, me trying to ignore my feelings so not to hurt my husband's feelings (pattern of a lifetime!) I had made several suggestions about opening our relationship maybe, gave him books and articles to read, but he was not interested. Eventually, last December, he changed his thinking as he saw I was not happy, and he said I could go explore my feelings more. We agreed that he could look around and explore as well.

And now here we are. I am seeing my guy occasionally, and we get on very well. One very difficult thing is that he is in a relationship and he is not open. I find that very hard, to know he is cheating, but not hard enough to give him up! What I find extremely difficult, and I did not expect this, is that my husband is now dating his second fling. I agree with the whole philosophy of polyamory, and that we are able to have more loving relationships, etc. But the jealousy overwhelmes me at times, and I find it very hard to deal with. It stems from the past, when he was ignoring me so often (And I see my role in not being assertive enough etc). I find it very hard that his flings get the nice attention, the effort made for them, the flirting and nice texts, something I wanted so much from him years ago. I do express this to my husband, and he is understanding and is much more attentive to me. He says he loves me deeply, and finds my feelings hard to deal with. He says he can't accept me seeing my other guy, if he is not seeing someone too. This sounds so silly, but I understand. I have found it harder to accept that he is seeing someone during times when things with my guy have been more difficult.

Ah sorry, a rambling story. I hope that maybe some people recognize what I have written, and can share some insight and advice?

Thank you!
 
Hello,

So, several months later I told my husband that my feelings for the other guy had not changed. He was devastated, angry, scared of losing me. The good thing was, we finally started to communicate more honestly with each other. I had felt very neglected in our relationship for a long time, he was always busy with work and friends, and I felt like the boring wife at home. I have come a long way since then, and have worked on my self-esteem, and do no longer fit in that role!

So we carried on for several more months, trying to get close again, me trying to ignore my feelings so not to hurt my husband's feelings (pattern of a lifetime!) I had made several suggestions about opening our relationship maybe, gave him books and articles to read, but he was not interested. Eventually, last December, he changed his thinking as he saw I was not happy, and he said I could go explore my feelings more. We agreed that he could look around and explore as well.

And now here we are. I am seeing my guy occasionally, and we get on very well. One very difficult thing is that he is in a relationship and he is not open. I find that very hard, to know he is cheating, but not hard enough to give him up! What I find extremely difficult, and I did not expect this, is that my husband is now dating his second fling. I agree with the whole philosophy of polyamory, and that we are able to have more loving relationships, etc. But the jealousy overwhelmes me at times, and I find it very hard to deal with. It stems from the past, when he was ignoring me so often (And I see my role in not being assertive enough etc). I find it very hard that his flings get the nice attention, the effort made for them, the flirting and nice texts, something I wanted so much from him years ago. I do express this to my husband, and he is understanding and is much more attentive to me. He says he loves me deeply, and finds my feelings hard to deal with. He says he can't accept me seeing my other guy, if he is not seeing someone too. This sounds so silly, but I understand. I have found it harder to accept that he is seeing someone during times when things with my guy have been more difficult.

Ah sorry, a rambling story. I hope that maybe some people recognize what I have written, and can share some insight and advice?

Thank you!

There is so much wrong here. In no particular order:

-You are NOT in a poly relationship with your BF. You are in a cheating relationship. You are allowing him to take away the agency of his wife, to put her physical and emotional well-being in danger because you think your's is more important. News flash: if he's fucking you without his wife's consent, it's statistically likely he's fucking or will fuck someone else without yours (and, of course, hers). This isn't a recipe for safety (do you guys practice safer sex all the time--dental dams, etc., as well as condoms?) He is making decisions for her, as though she is disposable and incapable. It is entirely unethical. And, he is also showing you exactly how much he values honesty, integrity, and the agency and feelings of his partners. Which is, not at all. As much as I hate Dr. Phil, this holds true: if they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you; so, even if you can't bring yourself to have some compassion for the duped partner (she's NOT your metamour--she is a cheated-on spouse), you should take a long look at what he is showing you he is and decide if you want to run the risks he brings.

-Your husband wanting relationships of his own isn't weird or silly, and it's not at all unusual that it would help him feel better about the situation. That said:

-You are headed for disaster. I promise. And on many levels. Opening relationships that are on such shaky ground almost always goes poorly for everyone. Cheating rarely goes well for anyone, and almost always causes huge amounts of drama for all involved. What happens when/if your BF's wife finds out and he ends it with you (both of which are pretty likely, assuming she doesn't leave him)--does your husband have to end it with his GF? Or, what happens if your husband's relationship with his GF ends? You haven't dealt with the resentment in your relationship with your husband and it's still clearly causing you issues, and he is clearly not really very happy with you having other relationships. Everything here by both you and your husband is based on selfishness, rather than any kind of compassion.

The advice, I think, is pretty clear. Stop seeing the cheating guy. If you want poly, concentrate on finding someone who is ethical, and work with your husband on a model that meets both of your needs. Work on rebuilding your own relationship with your husband before dragging other people into your drama, and try to work on finding compassion for each other, rather than embracing the "as much as I can get" relationship style that seems like it's going on here by you both.
 
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Oh my, you are so right! Goodness, I think I really needed to hear that. I have felt very bad about the cheating, and you are making it very clear why. And indeed there are many issues to be resolved with my husband, if they can....he's now encouraging me to keep going with BF! God what a mess, feels like we've been using others as plasters for the wounds we are inflicting on each other, not good, but sad...Food for thought, and hard decisions. Thank you for taking the time to respond
 
Greetings Marja,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Well the cheating situation and the idea of, "If you have a poly fling with someone, I have to be having one too," are problems and should be addressed. A poly-friendly counselor would help; if you're interested I have links to help you find one.

You mentioned that you struggle with jealousy due to your husband's flings, and that he's giving them more attention than he was giving you. I am guessing that NRE is what's driving his extra attention toward these other people. Going back to before you and he got married, did he give you plenty of attention then? I would guess that he did. That, too, is NRE.

But you may also find the following links to be helpful:

Let us discuss the greeneye monster shall we?
How to slay the greeneyed beastie.

How To Contain The Green Monster
Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, Etc.
How do you achieve compersion?

The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Practice of Jealousy Management

Jealousy and the Poly Family
Kathy Labriola: Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

I hope things work out well for you guys.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Kevin, thank you< I will have a look at the articles.

And I am very aware the issues need to be addressed, that is partly why I joined this forum. I would be interested in a poly friendly counsellor, thank you.

Regarding my jealousy and the NRE, I have read about this (great book by Dutch coach Leonie Linssen called Love Unlimited). And I understand the NRE thing all too well. And herein lies the problem, I have uncovered over the last years, with help of a counsellor, that our relationship was more based on co-dependence than healthy intimacy. We lived in different countries for the first 2 years, and that worked fine, with regular letters and visits. But when I came to the UK, he actually had very little attention for me and continued his lifestyle exactly how he wanted it, with very little consideration for me. And I felt I was being silly, for feeling needy of his attention. And so it went on for many years, until I felt numb and was kicked alive by my inappropriate but for me irresistable crush on a man who already has a girlfriend. The attention from him was like a drug, I felt seen, beautiful, loved (I know it probably wasn't love, but it sure felt like it!). So yeah, that was my NRE and the roles with my husband reversed in that my attention was now elsewhere and he felt needy of my love.

So one part of me does not begrudge my husband a loving experience with someone else, but for me it brings all this stuff up again. I see this as something between us that we need to talk about, he wishes I could get a grip on it myself, so he doesn't have to feel bad. Which again makes me feel I need to be a good girl, with no needs, to be loved.

And another thing is that my husband has started to date a younger single woman at work and I don't think he has thought it through how it may be for her. He has told her he is married and that our relationship is "open". He is taking her out and sending lots of kind and flirty messages. I worry it may be hard for her to have a man who will not be able to totally commit to her as he has me and a family!

Yeah, probably not a good basis for a strong and honest poly-thing.

But what I love about the idea of poly, is the bit about giving each other freedom to love, and not treating each other as a possession. That, in itself, is so loving...

Anyway, rambling again...
 
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I am glad I could help, hard though I know it is to hear (well, in this case, read) advice sometimes. As Kevin suggested, a poly counselor sounds like something you could both really use. There are clearly some deep-seated issues in your marriage that you should work through, and doing it with experienced help is probably a good idea.

And another thing is that my husband has started to date a younger single woman at work and I don't think he has thought it through how it may be for her. He has told her he is married and that our relationship is "open". He is taking her out and sending lots of kind and flirty messages. I worry it may be hard for her to have a man who will not be able to totally commit to her as he has me and a family!

This isn't your job to worry about, so stop. You worry about your relationship with your husband, he worries about his relationship with his lovers. As long as he's been honest in his dealings, it's up to them to work out where their relationship goes (if he's being less than honest, that is a different discussion, so we'll assume he's being honest at this point). If his GF decides she wants a different relationship style, then she can choose to pursue that.

I think something you should look at, in yourself, is your lack of understanding that other people have a right to make their own judgement and decisions based on presented (presumed honest and ethical) facts/situations, or what we call "agency." You seem to have a difficult time either understanding this or respecting it, I am unsure which; but, it is very important, not just in poly, but in the world at large. As long as you are dealing ethically (not taking away someone else's agency, or assisting in that), it is up to others to decide what is right and wrong for them. It is not up to you. This woman could find this a perfect arrangement for her for reasons that are none of your concern or of which you are unaware, or she may decide it isn't and move on.

The point of poly is that the person you're dating doesn't have to be single, and neither do you, in order for develop a bond with other people. So, yes, he could absolutely commit to her, despite already having one wife and family. He could decide he wanted children with her, if that's what they both eventually desire, and a more even time split. Or, they both may prefer to keep things a bit less entangled. There are many, many people on this board with more than one committed relationship. Some have separate housing for each relationship, children with different partners, etc. There is no reason to think that he can't, or won't, develop a LTR with someone else, and, in fact, many people in poly find it desirable to have multiple committed relationships (which is the point of poly--if it's just FWB, it's much more akin to swinging or "open," but that particular arrangement of allowing some relationship, as well as sex, rather than just sex as in swinging, comes with a huge minefield of things that often explode. It's generally, IMHO, better for most people to pick a direction and go with it).

And this goes back to the poly counselor. I'm going to throw a dart in the dark and say you assume you and your husband will practice hierarchical poly, and that all relationships aside from your marriage will remain casual, with no commitment and "lesser" emotions. This is something you should discuss at length, and is also a terrible idea, because you cannot "legislate" emotions. There are pretty constant new threads here about people who develop this agreement, only to have it broken, and end up feeling hurt, betrayed, and angry. It's also generally a terrible way to treat prospective partners, at least without very up-front disclosure of the "rules."

So, in addition to Kevin's links, I'd definitely suggest doing a search here on "couple privilege," and "hierarchical poly," and do some reading up. Also, take a look at this, and take some time to figure out what works for you. Then, ask your husband to do the same, and see if you're on the same page, or what you need to do to get on the same page (if possible): http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships (Thanks, GalaGirl, for this link, btw).
 
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Thanks again, you bring up some very good points. I do think it is a bit harsh that you assume I have a lack of understanding that other people have a right to their own judgement and decisions. I do totally agree that people do, but struggle with the strong feelings that come up in me, and take total responsibility that these are my feelings, and my issues, and I need to work on them! I try to put it into context with past experiences, but do think it is important to talk about these feelings with my husband, without passing blame.

Interestingly, it has been me that has raised with my husband that it is very difficult to control emotions, and that when he will get intimate with another woman, that this will likely bring up a lot of feelings. Also for the woman. He went into the open relationship thing with the idea, as he told me, to have occasional casual sex, with a female "friend", thinking it could be a "bolt on" to our relationship. I have raised with him that it will probably not be that easy, I know from (ok, immoral) experience that feelings can be very strong and overwhelming and not easy to control. I also said that it is important to take the feelings of the other people into consideration (again I know you will frown and think that I have not done this myself, but I have, I have felt wrecked with guilt about my "sinful" feelings). I am not sure how clear he has been, or can be, to the woman he is seeing now, what his intention is, or that he is clear to himself, or me, what he hopes for with her. I do understand that it is not possible to predict what will happen. I can also see that coming up with a set of "rules", can feel very harsh and insensitive to the GF.

He tells me very little, unless I ask him. So yes, we need to talk a lot of things through, including how we feel about things and how we can support each other. Meanwhile, it is me who does all the research, counselling and asking, to make sense of the turmoil that I am in now. He says he is not in turmoil, and that according to him we are fine? Different people, different interpretations, I suppose.
 
Marja, I am sorry that my words came off as harsh. THey were intended to be forthright, but not hurtful; so, I am sorry if that is how they came across.

Several things strike me about your post. Again, in no particular order:

-Your husband doesn't sound like he wants polyamory, but rather some mostly NSA/casual sex. That is also a total fine relationship model (if you both agree), but it's not polyamory (which is, by definition, more than one loving relationship). Since you're commenting on a poly forum, my answers (and likely others you will receive) come from the point of poly, which is definitely different from just "open" or "swinging" relationships. All of these models are reasonable models that can be successful if all parties are on board, you're just going to find more about poly here than those because that is what the forum is about.

-Your husband thinks you, as a couple, are fine. Which is clearly false. The couple cannot be "fine" if one party has serious issues with relationship issues. It sounds like he's avoiding conversations he may find painful or confusing. Another reason to get you both to a counselor ASAP. That's not going to make things better.

-As an atheist, I don't believe in sin, so there's no "sinful" behavior judgment. As a staunch humanist, though, I believe in valuing the rights of other. This extends not only to your various lovers, but to you. Meaning, you have the right to know what is going on in your relationship, and to make choices based on that knowledge. While there is (or should be) a reasonable expectation of privacy between your husband and his GF, matters that are going to impact your relationship with your husband are things he is really obligated to discuss with you. You need to be able to set your own boundaries in the relationship, and also to feel safe. So, agreeing on a model of relationship, as well as the details (finances: who pays for dates and how much can come out of the household funds? Time: how much time do you need in your relationship. Obligations: how will obligations such as child rearing, family functions, and the like be met? Etc.) is very important.

Since he's seeming to want to not discuss it, this is going to be problematic.

Honestly, and this is just my opinion, neither of you should be seeing anyone else right now. Your relationship and communication is clearly a mess, there's hurt and resentment (and I'd bet the farm he's got heaps of this, as well, about your affair, whether it was physical or emotional), it sounds as if there's no boundaries in place for either of you (note: boundaries and rules are different things--a site search is a great place to start on that), and you're both coming at this from places of hurt rather than enthusiasm, and compassion for yourselves, your relationship, and your partners.

Poly, or even "open," relationships will shine a huge, glaring spotlight on everything wrong in your relationship. Especially when NRE is in play, and other lovers look so shiny and easy compared to the mess of emotions and obligations at home. While poly can be a great way to grow personally and within relationships, using it as a "fix' for a generally bad marriage works about as well as using a baby to do the same thing. Meaning, it doesn't. It usually does the opposite.

Is there any way you can talk to your husband about taking a step back from your current relationships (which would give you a very easy way to end your relationship with your cheating BF, actually) and re-grouping? Having no idea where his relationship with his GF stands, it's hard to say if it's reasonable or not to expect him to end that (this isn't her fault, she shouldn't be punished for it; but, if it's very casual, it might be a reasonable thing to do). Get yourselves some counseling, deal with the infidelity, figure out more reasonable communication, and, if you want some other relationship structure, figure out what it is before just charging in like bulls in a china shop and causing more damage to yourselves, your relationship, and others?
 
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Hi Marja,

Here's those links for finding a poly-friendly counselor:

And if you should find a good counselor who isn't familiar with poly but is willing to learn, ask them to read "What Psychology Professionals Should Know about Polyamory," a book by Geri Weitzman, Ph.D., Joy Davidson, Ph.D., and Robert A. Phillips, Jr., Ph.D.

I would also recommend for you and your husband to read "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino ... if you haven't already. It covers a full range of responsible nonmonogamy, from poly to swing.

Hopefully that helps some.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Kevin, thank you for the links, and I have read the book and it was very helpful to me. We have been to counselling, but I was left still with strong feelings for the other, which did not go when I tried to ignore it and ended the relationship. So reading about people who love more than one partner, was an eye opener for me, as I felt very isolated with my strong and complicated feelings.

Greenacre, I actually do really appreciate your straight talking, so thank you so much for your input, it has been really helpful.

I understand the difference between poly and open relationships, but the boundaries between them can be hard to define, I think. As loving feelings can easily grow when spending fun and intimate time with another.

I have shown these threads to my husband, and we have been talking a lot. This whole to do has indeed shone a bright light on the cracks, and I think that is not a bad thing. I agree that a relationship cannot be fine if one partner isn't happy, and I think my husband is starting to understand this too. This is a very positive development, because when we can talk honestly, the intimacy returns.

Boundaries are indeed a big area to work on, I know they are for me personally, so you are very right. Work to be done, but my mind feels so much clearer.

So thank you, thank you , thank you to both of you!

Marja
 
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