New to this, doing well w/ reservations but still some struggling

I'm confused at what you mean about her father and being introduced to him. What does me being introduced to her father have to do with anything? I am not involved with her.

What are you talking about, her father waiting in the wings?

Sorry, not sure I understand this point.


Notice what he does, notice what she does. have you been introduced to her father?

After a while the NRE (which I feel is just an oxytocin rush) will wear off and you will see what a fool you were to even think about him when Her father was waiting in the wings. Then you can get to play unicorn which is much more prancing fun kinda toy.
 
A quick lil update.

Things have been going well. He has in the last month to six weeks really come around to me and what my struggles are with all of this.

His 'primary' - I'm not so sure I can call her that anymore - is still pretty insecure about me. I think she hates me, honestly. I try not to think about it.

He now lives a lot closer to me - a quick walk away - and we will be seeing a lot more of each other.

As for how I feel about him and the future, I've kind of dropped too many expectations. My heart sometimes aches wondering what to anticipate, just to tell myself to calm down and anticipate nothing.

I'm a little more down about it tonight than I normally would be - I get uneasy the more he talks about women he meets and I think I need him to cool it on that - but although he's meeting new women, part of it is to find us a playmate. He has reassured me that he isn't seeking any new girlfriends. Though I feel like I need that reassurance almost too often.

His mother keeps trying to introduce him to a girl who's also a neighbor. It makes me feel like she (the mom) doesn't like me. I've met her, she seems to be fine with me based on our interactions, but who knows. Again, something I don't like to worry about (and I'm not even sure why I'm mentioning it).

My only reservation right now is that he wants to get involved - sexually only - with a woman who's precariously close to his ex and is in an unhappy marriage. That screams red flags to me. And he seems to understand it is a bad idea. I don't really know how to convince him that it isn't good; his other gf has also expressed disapproval of this, even if it's "only sex."

Well, still trucking along here. Finding more and more friends who are poly and are very supportive. Getting anxious about the holidays and wondering if the distance (I'm going home for almost two weeks) will hurt or help. I guess we'll find out.
 
Hi there,

I actually feel quite good that other people are almost in similar situations to me with regards to this although I'm a bit more distanced and less involved. I've curtailed my involvement on posting on the forums however still actively read.

I am still coming to terms with the potential of dating/going out with my now ex-partner who is poly. I am or would define myself as a mono, straight male and the reasons we parted in the first place was due to lack of communication and the fact she thought I would disown or run away from her when she mentioned the realisation.

At the moment I am also doing a lot of soul-searching, reading and perhaps I've distanced myself from it a little in the past week or so. This is only due to the fluctuations on my emotions. For example I'll wake up very anxious and not worthy and other days I'll be quite chipper and motivated.

I'm still coming to some conclusions on my findings which are more in line with myself. We still meet up regularly to hang out as friends even though I know she is developing new relationships and thats hard for me to digest. I also feel the same with regards to 'I don't want to know' about what she gets up to or how infatuated with others she is however I feel I have to know to understand my feelings and see if its something I can process.

I'm always willing for people to message or directly have a conversation with me on topics like this. I find it very difficult just reading materials as they're quite linear. Direct conversation I feel is more beneficial so if you feel the need to chat I would be open to that. I think it would help me and could also help you too.
 
Thanks for the reply. I've private messaged you and we can work out how to chat from there.

I feel like I'm very anxious some days, and in some days I'm okay. Some days I'm basking in his love, and other days I'm so insecure about it all.

It's hard to give him my love when I don't feel like I'll get anything back... but I have to remember that I shouldn't be giving love, expecting anything back.

But should I? Should I expect anything back at all? Is it realistic or healthy to completely remove the expectation to be loved back in any capacity?

That's the question I am asking of myself today.


Hi there,

I actually feel quite good that other people are almost in similar situations to me with regards to this although I'm a bit more distanced and less involved. I've curtailed my involvement on posting on the forums however still actively read.

I am still coming to terms with the potential of dating/going out with my now ex-partner who is poly. I am or would define myself as a mono, straight male and the reasons we parted in the first place was due to lack of communication and the fact she thought I would disown or run away from her when she mentioned the realisation.

At the moment I am also doing a lot of soul-searching, reading and perhaps I've distanced myself from it a little in the past week or so. This is only due to the fluctuations on my emotions. For example I'll wake up very anxious and not worthy and other days I'll be quite chipper and motivated.

I'm still coming to some conclusions on my findings which are more in line with myself. We still meet up regularly to hang out as friends even though I know she is developing new relationships and thats hard for me to digest. I also feel the same with regards to 'I don't want to know' about what she gets up to or how infatuated with others she is however I feel I have to know to understand my feelings and see if its something I can process.

I'm always willing for people to message or directly have a conversation with me on topics like this. I find it very difficult just reading materials as they're quite linear. Direct conversation I feel is more beneficial so if you feel the need to chat I would be open to that. I think it would help me and could also help you too.
 
Re:
"Is it realistic or healthy to completely remove the expectation to be loved back in any capacity?"

I think there's a difference between having a feeling of love for someone and between actually being involved in their life. The greater the level of involvement, the more the need for a fair exchange of love. Hopefully that makes sense ...
 
Thanks for the reply. I've private messaged you and we can work out how to chat from there.

I feel like I'm very anxious some days, and in some days I'm okay. Some days I'm basking in his love, and other days I'm so insecure about it all.

It's hard to give him my love when I don't feel like I'll get anything back... but I have to remember that I shouldn't be giving love, expecting anything back.

But should I? Should I expect anything back at all? Is it realistic or healthy to completely remove the expectation to be loved back in any capacity?

That's the question I am asking of myself today.

I feel very similar to you as well Kitten, the mixture of emotions are extremely fluctuating and I'd been tempted to draw up a graph of potential feeling levels on a daily basis (from 1-10) to see any patterns or specific events which affected me however I do know this.

My levels of anxiety or worry I believe stem from feeling that I'm losing my ex-partner although on paper, I haven't really. We still hang out, do the same things we usually did however less frequently. I'm a bit scared of moving in to the open relationship territory because it feels like a world of uncertainty and for some reason I still think monogamous relationships 'feel' more secure. On the other hand I also know that she is still carrying some worry too, she doesn't want to lose me and I suppose if I feel like I can't do this, in some sense she might as I'll be looking to date a mono partner in the future.

Even though that I fully understand monogamous relationships don't really offer long term security, I only have to look at previous monogamous relationships or the divorces I know of to reflect on that assumption.

I know that my ex-partner wants me to be in her life for a very long time and has expressed to me that she had me down as 'marriage' material and thats really tough to swallow when are aren't going out any more. The feelings for one another haven't dissolved.

I guess situations differ, I'm always one for giving a lot of my energy to people or expressing my love, even if its just for long hugs or enjoying something, making food or a meal for example.

If everything went particularly cold and I had zero attention then I'd probably be a little upset, I'd at least like to express how I felt about being closed out.

KDT explained it very well.
 
in relationship

It's hard to give him my love when I don't feel like I'll get anything back... but I have to remember that I shouldn't be giving love, expecting anything back.

But should I? Should I expect anything back at all? Is it realistic or healthy to completely remove the expectation to be loved back in any capacity?

That's the question I am asking of myself today.

there is for me a difference in Giving of anything without expectation and "being in relationship"

If I am walking down the street, see a person think they placed something in their bag, but really it ended up falling on the ground, I go pick it up and give it to them, I never expect anything. Their Thank you is nice, but to me completely unnecessary. This to me is something we do because we are human, we are social animals and it is an act of a social animal to another within our species (not our tribe). I have done things like this thousands of times. I do not think this makes me a "better" human, it is just a natural human thing to do.

I would do the same for a person who might trip near me and I could catch them, or fell and I might see if they were alright.

When in relationship, the rules do change. When someone within our tribe (be that our intimate member or a coworker), we expect there be giving and getting. If a person I gave help to consistently did not ever help me, after a while I would stop giving them help. If you had a team of people and one excelled but never helped, over time the group would shun them, push them out of the group. This is a natural thing of social animals.

Loving I feel is no different. If you give love and get nothing in return, i would expect, unless you are mentally and or emotionally defective, eventually, you would move on.

To feel that for each act of love, or help you require some quid pro quo would seem to be also mentally or emotionally deficient.

I enjoy doing things for my partners and friends. I do not expect something in return each time. If however, I found myself in a relationship with a person I was in a "one way street", eventually I would stop doing for that person.

Loving relationships can often take on a very imbalanced dynamic, but still be loving. I have frequently been served by others, part of my "job" was to be demanding or even critical of the service, but another part was to acknowledge when I was pleased. Outsiders often thought I or the relationship was Unfair. But they are not the ones inside the relationship. We inside had our rules and if I did not satisfy the other the relationship would and often did end.

I would ask the question: Am I getting what I want?

Do you actually know what you want?
Have you sat down and written it out?
Written it again?
argued with yourself about whether you were being reasonable/unreasonable/realistic/unrealistic and the thousands of variations?

I am personally a totally unreasonable/unrealistic man, at least to outsiders.
I have a reason for everything I want
I have a realistic plan within my own mind as to how to have this.
I am also quite up front about asking for what I want.
I am never critical of a person who does not want to give me, nor do I take it personally. I have never been upset a chocolate factory does not serve steak, nor think I will get one at a vegan restaurant as well.

When I go into Charlie's Steak House and I say Medium Rare NO Pepper, you can bet I send it back when it is Medium Rare, but has Pepper on it or it is Well Done and No Pepper. If the person serving me is being crappy, I will take the time to stop and ask if there is something wrong and is there anything I can do. I am amazed at how often something this simple can change a person's behavior, but if they persist, their reward will be minimal. Should they shine, I am happy to over tip.

Nonetheless, we are in relationship.

I am often surprised when the very straight-laced woman's eyes sparkle when I tell her the reasons why I think she would not like to get involved with me, only to discover those very reasons are some of her deepest, darkest, but most passionate desires.

So I love people who don't love me back, but I do not build my life around them. It is just my private love. I feel it. I enjoy it. I even feel great heartache and heartbreak. But after a while, I stop eating at the restaurant that is not serving food that satisfies me.

My thoughts I give you without expectation in fair exchange to those who have over my life given me so much.

Know what you want, ask for it.
It sounds to me as if you are not clear and those around you also might not be clear about what you want.

I imagine myself to be a gifted psychic who so often gets it wrong I could be in Ripley's!

ask, you might just hear, "I had no idea, I'd love to..."
 
This totally makes sense. Thank you for that input! And I find that I agree!


Re:


I think there's a difference between having a feeling of love for someone and between actually being involved in their life. The greater the level of involvement, the more the need for a fair exchange of love. Hopefully that makes sense ...
 
I don't even know where to start with this amazing and well-thought-out reply. Thank you so much. I will think about this and perhaps come up with more discussion for it, but I really really appreciate how much time and thought you must have devoted to writing this. Thank you.



there is for me a difference in Giving of anything without expectation and "being in relationship"

If I am walking down the street, see a person think they placed something in their bag, but really it ended up falling on the ground, I go pick it up and give it to them, I never expect anything. Their Thank you is nice, but to me completely unnecessary. This to me is something we do because we are human, we are social animals and it is an act of a social animal to another within our species (not our tribe). I have done things like this thousands of times. I do not think this makes me a "better" human, it is just a natural human thing to do.

I would do the same for a person who might trip near me and I could catch them, or fell and I might see if they were alright.

When in relationship, the rules do change. When someone within our tribe (be that our intimate member or a coworker), we expect there be giving and getting. If a person I gave help to consistently did not ever help me, after a while I would stop giving them help. If you had a team of people and one excelled but never helped, over time the group would shun them, push them out of the group. This is a natural thing of social animals.

Loving I feel is no different. If you give love and get nothing in return, i would expect, unless you are mentally and or emotionally defective, eventually, you would move on.

To feel that for each act of love, or help you require some quid pro quo would seem to be also mentally or emotionally deficient.

I enjoy doing things for my partners and friends. I do not expect something in return each time. If however, I found myself in a relationship with a person I was in a "one way street", eventually I would stop doing for that person.

Loving relationships can often take on a very imbalanced dynamic, but still be loving. I have frequently been served by others, part of my "job" was to be demanding or even critical of the service, but another part was to acknowledge when I was pleased. Outsiders often thought I or the relationship was Unfair. But they are not the ones inside the relationship. We inside had our rules and if I did not satisfy the other the relationship would and often did end.

I would ask the question: Am I getting what I want?

Do you actually know what you want?
Have you sat down and written it out?
Written it again?
argued with yourself about whether you were being reasonable/unreasonable/realistic/unrealistic and the thousands of variations?

I am personally a totally unreasonable/unrealistic man, at least to outsiders.
I have a reason for everything I want
I have a realistic plan within my own mind as to how to have this.
I am also quite up front about asking for what I want.
I am never critical of a person who does not want to give me, nor do I take it personally. I have never been upset a chocolate factory does not serve steak, nor think I will get one at a vegan restaurant as well.

When I go into Charlie's Steak House and I say Medium Rare NO Pepper, you can bet I send it back when it is Medium Rare, but has Pepper on it or it is Well Done and No Pepper. If the person serving me is being crappy, I will take the time to stop and ask if there is something wrong and is there anything I can do. I am amazed at how often something this simple can change a person's behavior, but if they persist, their reward will be minimal. Should they shine, I am happy to over tip.

Nonetheless, we are in relationship.

I am often surprised when the very straight-laced woman's eyes sparkle when I tell her the reasons why I think she would not like to get involved with me, only to discover those very reasons are some of her deepest, darkest, but most passionate desires.

So I love people who don't love me back, but I do not build my life around them. It is just my private love. I feel it. I enjoy it. I even feel great heartache and heartbreak. But after a while, I stop eating at the restaurant that is not serving food that satisfies me.

My thoughts I give you without expectation in fair exchange to those who have over my life given me so much.

Know what you want, ask for it.
It sounds to me as if you are not clear and those around you also might not be clear about what you want.

I imagine myself to be a gifted psychic who so often gets it wrong I could be in Ripley's!

ask, you might just hear, "I had no idea, I'd love to..."
 
The gifts I've been given

I don't even know where to start with this amazing and well-thought-out reply. Thank you so much. I will think about this and perhaps come up with more discussion for it, but I really really appreciate how much time and thought you must have devoted to writing this. Thank you.

When I was five my father explained for the first of many times the only thing I really had in life was My Word, the promises I give and everything else was a gift, from the air we breathe to the food we eat, friends, family, jobs money and even the lessons.

In my life, I have been given so much, too often either so distracted I never said Thanks, or just completely ungrateful.

I love teaching. I will confess: I did not write this for You, but for me. It makes me feel good to teach, to write down my thoughts and ideas and to see them become more clear as they flow out of my rather jumbled brain.

Thank you, for posing the problem that needed my thoughts.

and also remember: Everything, even the most selfless act, you do for yourself, first and foremost. That others get a benefit is just the whipped cream with a cherry on top.

Today, is my wife's 61st birthday. She died 15 years and jumped into my body upon her death (Yes, I do sound like a totaly nutjob. In many ways than you can imagine, I am as crazy as a loon.)

I am on Bali and about to walk in a light warm drizzle to extend my visa for 30 more days. I plan to randomly fall in love, totally, helplessly in the tradition of all great romantics.

May the Bird of Paradise fly up your nose.
 
Hey kitten,

Just read through all the posts in this thread. I see you find yourself charting new territory, along with your bf who is divorcing his stbx, has kids, a gf, another gf (you) and now, you say, is hunting for a ... playpartner female for the two of you to have sex with? And/or trying to fuck a wackjob friend of his stbx wife's? Not the same woman as the hypothetical woman he wants to have FMF sex with, with you, I assume.

OMG and he is new to poly at the same time.

I assume he also has a job. And he has relatives he now lives closer to, and is in close r'ship with also?

I think poly people, especially new ones, but even more experienced but, shall we say, enthusiastic ones, CAN and DO overextend themselves all the time. My last bf did-- he was married, he saw me about 3 times a week, a few months after we started he also got a FWB thing going with my live-in gf, and with all that, after the first year of our r'ship, he also started looking to date, and dated about 6 people over the course of a year, until he found a woman he fell hard for.

Her husband and she were brand new to poly, and the husband and my (ex) bf also had a thing for each other, but the husband was so jealous of his wife seeing my bf he insisted all dates and sex for those two include HIM. The woman wasn't allowed to see my bf alone. Although this guy thought it was fine for him and my bf to have frequent sex dates one on one! I thought that hypocrisy was kind of disgusting, but my ex was getting his jollies having gay sex so he wasn't complaining. I once said to the woman, Well, how about all the sex you have with my bf has to include ME? She was of course, rather appalled to think of the prospect of me insinuating myself into their 'ship, but somehow it was OK for her husband to do so.

Does that sound complicated? It gets worse. My bf also had several serious health issues over the course of our 2 1/2 yr r'ship and I often took care of him, drove him places when he couldnt drive or his car broke down, we were unable to travel to the beach or do other "strenuous" things like hiking, canoeing, sightseeing, etc. One of his issues caused ED, yet he still found sexual energy to pursue and try to have sex with this, that and the other person.

Anyway, your bf is brand new to poly. Mine was somewhat experienced at poly, but still overextended himself, and was in so much drama with the jealous yet horny married couple, after a while I just couldn't take it anymore and broke it off. Like WhatHappened, I am still not over it.

Your bf has kid in a candy store-itis, I think. 2 gfs, kids to take care of alongside his stbx wife (so they are now in a new kind of r'ship he has to get used to), and now seeking even more females, this time sorta kinda under the guise of sharing one with you as if she were a toy. And even his mom is on the bandwagon, seeking women for him?

You two are still new and in NRE (extreme excitement and lust, as well as anxiety), but your bf also has all this excitement over being "polyamorous" with little experience about sharing his time and energies with all his women (and his kids) in a reasonable, balanced way. It does take fine tuning. He is just jumping in. You're new to this too, and you can thank god you're mono. I have a gf I live with, but had no desire to seek male partners when my bf was seeing a new person every couple months, or finally going all starry eyed over his couple. He couldn't seem to understand how drained I was by all HIS dating!
 
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