It's a Texlahoma Story

I'm with you about uncertainty. When you don't know what's going to happen, it could be anything. It can be kinda scary.

I'm glad you find my blog helpful :) I definitely sometimes overanalyze, overthink, and say things that afterward I might wish I hadn't... but I don't usually delete anything or make drastic changes once I post (if I edit, it's because either the post was too long or I realize I phrased something poorly), because sometimes reading my older posts helps me, and I hope that seeing me wrangle with stuff might make it so someone else doesn't have to wrangle with something similar.

I'm glad you get to see Dag twice this week, too. If I might suggest...try being a little more gentle with yourself? Instead of hating that you need it, just say "This is what I need right now, and I'm going to work on improving my 'being present' skills so maybe in the future it won't be such a big need. Meanwhile, I'm fortunate to have guys in my life who understand and accept what I need."
 
I definitely sometimes overanalyze, overthink, and say things that afterward I might wish I hadn't... but I don't usually delete anything or make drastic changes once I post (if I edit, it's because either the post was too long or I realize I phrased something poorly), because sometimes reading my older posts helps me, and I hope that seeing me wrangle with stuff might make it so someone else doesn't have to wrangle with something similar.

I'm trying to do the same. One of the most helpful things about the blogs here, for me, is seeing that EVERYONE has their not-so-good days. We're all human and learning and making mistakes and sometimes second guessing ourselves. So I will leave up my "screw poly this is too hard" moments. Maybe someone else will see that yes, I feel that way sometimes, but I keep trying, and I keep finding joy in my relationships.

If I might suggest...try being a little more gentle with yourself?

Thank you, I needed to hear that. Sometimes it's hard for me to recognize the line between pushing my boundaries in a good way, and pushing my limits so far I break.



In other news... Sitting on my butt all day = bad mood. Running = MUCH BETTER MOOD :) #shamelessendorphinjunkie
 
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I've been thinking a lot about the "what makes a relationship feel special?" topic that has come up on this site recently.

Honestly, I've never felt any jealousy or insecurity about words or activities or anything like that. I see Dag and Andy text the same goofy messages (sometimes the exact same words) to others and I'm fine. I know they might do the same activities and go to the same places with their other partners, that doesn't bother me.

For me it's more about ... Playing different roles in our shared partner's life.

Andy's other partners are completely unlike me. Night and day different. And I didn't realize until now how much I counted on that, how much I relied on that to squash any twinges of insecurity.

Andy's friend-girl Stephanie is driven, successful, and ambitious. She's a kick ass rockstar in her field. Stephanie comes across as fiercely independent and tough; Andy is the only one she lets see her vulnerable side.

His on-again-off-again lady friend Anna-Louise is your classic hot mess. The kind of woman all the soccer moms hate but are secretly jealous of, because she's out living it up and unafraid of what anyone thinks.

Me? I'm the nurturer, the shoulder to cry on, and the one who actually has food in the refrigerator ;) The best friend. I'm Andy's rock and safe place when he comes home from conquering the world and saving damsels in distress.

I think I'd feel incredibly threatened if Andy had a partner who wanted to share the "wife" role with me. It's not an issue now and probably never will be. Andy has actually rejected potential girlfriends because they seemed to want that. He jokes that one wife is more than enough :rolleyes: But it still bugs me to realize there's a what-if that I might not be able to handle.

With Dag, the script gets flipped. He has a wife at home, and I don't behave like one. I'm more spontaneous (ok, that isn't saying much :eek:). I'm the partner in crime, the one who will go out and do fun things, while his wife is usually too busy/tired.

What would happen if Dag had another girlfriend? Another woman in his life to meet up with for boozy dinners or pointless road trips or hours of crazy sex? Eek. Again, not an immediate problem, because both Dag and I feel we barely have enough free time for each other and neither of us is looking for anyone else. But. Eek.

I *love* that I'm able to nourish different sides of myself in different relationships. And I love that Dag and Andy can do the same.

But I almost feel like I've been ... Taking the easy way? Gaming the system? Stacking the deck? That the way our relationships have turned out - where Andy and I are happily settled as nesting partners and get to play other roles in the lives of our additional partners - has allowed us to skip or avoid really facing our insecurities.
 
Another thing I need to unpack tonight is the way people talk about sharing time with their partners and metamours.

I've noticed I have an intense, overwhelming, almost physical oh-hell-no reaction when anyone uses the phrase "so and so's night" or "so and so's time". Honestly I don't know exactly why this gets to me. Which is why I'm writing about it here ;)

Mostly it's the way the possessive is used that bothers me. My time is MY time, it's not ever Andy's time or Dag's time. I don't give it away by spending it with them. I know it's just a semantics thing but it feels important to me. I might even say, "it's my night to hang with Dag" or "it's Andy's one-on-one time with Stephanie", but... The time still belongs to the individual. It's shared or spent together. Not given from one to another.

Another big part of it is that I struggle already with feeling connected to partners if I don't see them enough - and the idea that the only time that "counts" is designated hours just reinforces all my insecurities :( If my Thursday night with Dag is "my time", then that means all the nights I don't see him are "not my time". And I don't like that. I don't want a boyfriend two or three partial days a week. I want a boyfriend all the time, even if I only see him in person two or three times a week.

I also feel like "Dag's time" vs "Andy's time" can make two relationships feel like a competition. Who gets the weekend, who gets more hours overall. It sets up time as a commodity to be fought or bargained over. And the truth is, it can feel that way in poly relationships sometimes. But I don't want to do anything, ever, to feed that dynamic.

The phrase also makes me uncomfortable because it feels like a big Do Not Disturb sign hanging over that chunk of time. I've dated guys before who had a lot of rules about when it was ok to call or text - and I just cannot with that shit. If we're in a relationship, I get to contact you when I need or want to contact you. (I mean, I get that people are busy, can't always answer the phone or return a text right away. But there's not returning a text, and there's getting upset that I sent said unreturned text.) I've also had guys get upset that I check in with Andy while I'm with them. :confused: He's still my husband, even if I'm spending time with someone else.

So, that's my take on it. I need to think of my time as mine. I may share it with partners or friends, but they don't own any of it. I am always a partner to both Dag and Andy, and will act that way, no matter who I'm physically with at the moment.
 
I've noticed I have an intense, overwhelming, almost physical oh-hell-no reaction when anyone uses the phrase "so and so's night" or "so and so's time". Honestly I don't know exactly why this gets to me. Which is why I'm writing about it here ;)

I feel the same way. I think it's partially related to being a divorced parent. It feels like a custody agreement! Tonight's the ex's night, tomorrow's my night? I don't like the possessive feel and I don't like how it compartmentalizes the relationship...like I can "only" spend time with Blue on "my" nights? Idk if that's exactly right but close enough. JMO but it (at least to me) creates an adversarial component to the metamour relationship and a negative feel to the relationship with my partner, if that makes sense? Seems like it would increase jealousy and insecurity for me. But, then, I like full on kitchen table poly so it makes sense that I'd have a negative reaction to compartmentalizing relationships. Reminds me a little of what Redpepper wrote in her blog.

So, that's my take on it. I need to think of my time as mine. I may share it with partners or friends, but they don't own any of it. I am always a partner to both Dag and Andy, and will act that way, no matter who I'm physically with at the moment.

I love all of this! I choose to share my life with my partners...all of my life, not just bits and pieces that fit into a jigsaw puzzle of my time :) Thank you, texlahoma for voicing what I was feeling :) I really enjoy reading your blog!
 
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So, that's my take on it. I need to think of my time as mine. I may share it with partners or friends, but they don't own any of it. I am always a partner to both Dag and Andy, and will act that way, no matter who I'm physically with at the moment.

I love all of this! I choose to share my life with my partners...all of my life, not just bits and pieces that fit into a jigsaw puzzle of my time :) Thank you, texlahoma for voicing what I was feeling :) I really enjoy reading your blog!

I love this, too. It is very, very close to how I had to explain my view on the time thing to Rider when I was seeing Beckett: Rider and I spend a LOT of time together and tend to "default" to being together when we don't actively have other plans. But that doesn't mean that all my time that I am not with other partners is "his time."

He was, at one point, feeling chafed at the thought that my conversing with Beckett during my work day was causing my work to spill over into "his time," and I had to point out that all my time is MY OWN, and if I choose to spend some of it doing something other than working and hanging out with him—be it talking to someone else, taking up a new hobby, learning a language, etc.—it was not taking away from him, because it wasn't his to begin with. I choose to SHARE the largest portion of my time with him because that's what makes me happy. But sometimes other things or people make me happy too. :)
 
I'm on my phone right now so can't type a lot, but I have some thoughts from a different perspective about "so and so's night." I'll try to post about it on my blog when I get home.
 
PinkPig and Reverie, I'm glad you enjoyed reading :) and that you were able to follow my thought jumble! I wrote that sitting in the airport parking garage, waiting to pick up Andy, so I didnt have a chance to really read it over before I posted.

I'm on my phone right now so can't type a lot, but I have some thoughts from a different perspective about "so and so's night." I'll try to post about it on my blog when I get home.

Please do! Your thoughts on poly are frequently very similar to Dag's - but you express them better than he does ;) Your posts are always little "aha" moments for me, where I see things from angles I've never considered.

In other news...

Andy got home exhausted and also stressed out that he hadn't heard from Stephanie the whole trip. Turns out her mom got some very bad health news - the "have you thought about hospice" kind of bad news :( And being Stephanie, she didn't want to "burden" anyone with her problems. JFC. So Andy listened to her grieve for a long time last night... And then I listened to Andy spill all the sadness he had held in check while trying to be there for Stephanie.

Needless to say no one around here is on top of their game today.
 
Well, Andy is sick with some kind of South Asian mystery crud :( He went to the doc this morning, got a truly frightening amount of antibiotics, and has been asleep most of the day. I was supposed to go out with Dag tonight, obviously that's not happening. Blech.

This is one of those situations where I have that "I suck at poly" feeling. I basically blew off my boyfriend because HUSBAND and I feel awful about it. But it's not like I blew off Dag because Andy said not to go. (Andy isn't saying anything today, he's just moaning and coughing from underneath his blanket pile ;) ) I had to choose between the partner who wants sex and companionship tonight, and the one who needs food, medicine, and possibly a ride to the ER.

It just feels very lopsided... there's never a situation where Dag needs me to take care of him and I cancel fun plans with Andy to do it. Dag lives with his wife, she's there to bring him soup and drive him to the doctor when he's sick. So the opportunity never comes for me to show Dag I'd absolutely prioritize him needing that from me.

As much as I like the idea of non-hierarchical poly, it's hard to put it into practice when I live with one partner and not the other. My relationship with Andy just includes a lot more necessary and inflexible stuff than my relationship with Dag. There's a feeling of primary and secondary even though I don't want that.
 
On a more fun note...

Last night I was showing Andy my post here on the different roles Stephanie, Anna-Louise, and I play in his life. He read the part about me being the nurturing one and said, "Deep down, Stephanie is a nurturer."

I raised my eyebrows and tried not to laugh. His response?

"Stephanie tries to be nurturing, it just doesn't usually come out right. She goes for nurturing, but it comes out as controlling bitch."

:D :D :D
 
I understand what you're saying about not wanting to *think of* it as hierarchy, but it kind of seeming that way by default. I have the same issue sometimes; since I live with Hubby, he obviously shares pieces of my life that no other partner would, and sometimes that comes across like he's my "primary."

I try to look at hierarchy as being more about intent and emotions than about actions and who lives where and so on. Even though I live with Hubby, which means he shares a bed with me five or six nights out of every seven, we have entwined finances, etc., and we have certain legal rights and connections with each other since we're legally married, I don't place more *importance* on him than on Woody (or than I did on either of my previous partners). In my mind and my heart, Hubby and Woody have an equal place. Not an *identical* place, but equal in terms of how much each of them means to me and how I think of their role in my life.

It's probably somewhat different in my case, though. Neither of my previous partners had other partners at all, and although Woody has other partners, neither of them lives with him and I'm the one he sees most often.
 
I've been lying. Well, not lying. Less than honest. With Dag, with Andy, and even with myself.

I keep saying that whether or not Dag eventually wants to meet Andy and my friends doesn't affect how I feel about him. And that's the truth. But it's not the whole truth. Because it does affect whether or not I want to stay in this relationship. I can't keep juggling two completely separate relationships and always feeling like I'm letting somebody down. I can't go through another year of this.

So I'm going to take the advice I've seen offered to so many people on this board and set a time limit for myself. Three months. If nothing changes at all in three months, I'm ending things with Dag. End of March, before Dag's birthday and mine and the spring round of divided celebrations and frustration and tears.

It's not fair to Dag, changing the rules like this. I know that. I feel like a complete and utter failure for not being able to somehow make it all work. But it's not fair to me to stay in a relationship that leaves me stressed and exhausted. If I was single and mono and dating, I'd never stay with someone who refused to meet my friends and family. Why does being married and poly mean I have to accept that? Why does it mean I don't get to have expectations and needs?

I told Andy all of this last night, and he listened and hugged me. And he said, "It's your relationship baby. Your call."

The only decision left is how to handle things with Dag between now and spring. He knows this is something I want, he knows it's important to me. I just don't know if I should continue to push the topic or not. I don't want to give him an ultimatum. But it feels deceitful to pretend everything's wonderful and then break up with him seemingly out of nowhere. And if this has to end, I want it to end well. Dag isn't just my boyfriend, he's one of my closest friends, and I want to do everything I can to at least keep our friendship.
 
If it were me, after angsting and crying on Hubby's shoulder and asking advice and angsting some more (because that's kinda my groove)... I would be honest with Dag. Tell him what you've said here, that you love him and value your relationship, but the current circumstances of him not wanting to be around Andy are causing you a lot of stress because you feel like you're in a juggling show instead of relationships.

But... don't tell him you're going to end the relationship if he doesn't change his mind about the subject, because that would sound like an ultimatum, in my opinion. Instead, after you've laid out the situation and how you feel, ask him, "Do you have any thoughts on how we could solve this?"

Let *him* be the one to finally agree to meet Andy (since you say he knows that's something you want), or, even though it would hurt, let *him* be the one to say, "I don't think we can solve that, so let's just be friends and end the relationship."

You're right. It isn't fair to you to have to entirely give way to someone whose relationship style doesn't match yours. You do get to have expectations and wants and needs. And if Dag isn't willing to at least meet you halfway, you do get to decide the relationship isn't good for you.
 
Well at least I'm not the only one who cries on her husband's shoulder ... Andy has promised chick flicks, ice cream, and red wine if needed :eek:

KC43, I like your script for talking to Dag :) I realize that even though I'm always saying "I'd love for you to meet K and R" or "Your meeting Andy would mean a lot to me", I never come out and say "I'm unhappy with our current situation." He deserves to know that.

I'm still trying to sort out what, exactly, I *need* here, as opposed to what I want but can live without. I'd be ok with Dag and Andy having the same level of "acquaintanceship" I have with Stephanie and Anna-Louise. I only see them once every few months at social things, it's just nice that we can all be there at Andy's birthday or whatever. I honestly don't care if Dag and Andy are ever friends... I'm just tired of the hoop jumping to keep them apart.

The tipping point for me in all this was trying to plan a weekend away with Dag. It's a four hour drive to where we want to go, so obviously it makes sense for us to drive together in one car. But Dag is uncomfortable coming to pick me up while Andy is home. Even if Andy doesn't come outside. He suggested we meet at a mall and leave my car there. Um. No. I guess Andy can just go to the store or something for an hour so Dag can pick me up... But honestly it's just starting to feel ridiculous :rolleyes:

It's amazing how much lighter I feel knowing that, one way or another, I will not be juggling for the rest of my life.
 
the tipping point for me in all this was trying to plan a weekend away with dag. It's a four hour drive to where we want to go, so obviously it makes sense for us to drive together in one car. But dag is uncomfortable coming to pick me up while andy is home. Even if andy doesn't come outside. He suggested we meet at a mall and leave my car there. Um. No.

WTF!!! That's nutso.
 
WTF!!! That's nutso.

Yeah. It was followed by the slightly less nutso suggestion that we both drive an hour in the opposite direction of our destination to leave my car at the airport.

Things just get really complicated this time of year with both Dag and Andy off work for the next two weeks. Most of the time I can avoid the drama by meeting Dag here while Andy is at the office, or meeting him directly after work, but right now the logistics are driving me crazy.

If someone is a casual fuck buddy or fwb I don't care whether or not they want to meet my husband. But when something progresses to the point where we are traveling together, seeing each other multiple times a week, etc ... It would be much more pleasant for everyone if paths could cross without it being a big deal.
 
In my opinion, you definitely are not being unreasonable. It's one thing to not want to socialize with each other. It's completely different to go to outrageous lengths to avoid even seeing each other!

Even though my other partners aren't welcome at my home (that sounds horrible; I can't think of the word I wanted. They can come here, I just prefer that they don't), when I was first involved with Guy during the time he was in my area, he dropped me off at my house a couple of times, and Hubby came outside to say hello. They'd already met, since they met the same night Guy and I did, but still. And S2 came over a couple of times to help out with transportation, as well as attending a couple of events for Alt or Country at which Hubby was also present. So I try not to entangle things too much, but even in my case, Hubby and my other partners know each other and can be in the same place...

I think you owe it to yourself to make sure Dag understands that you are *unhappy* with the situation and that it isn't just a "it would be nice but..." kind of thing. It really doesn't seem fair that you're having to go as far as you are to make sure he doesn't see Andy.
 
This EXACT level of avoidance was what I dealt with with Rider's last relationship. I once accidentally left my expensive boots—which I needed for a business trip the next day since I was traveling to a cold climate—at Rider's house, and instead of my being able to come knock on the door and pick them up while he was having Claire over, he had to leave them outside (chancing their getting stolen) and I had to skulk up silently like a criminal to retrieve them. I wouldn't have even had to SEE her, just to pass boots from one set of hands to another, and that was apparently too much to deal with.

Kudos on you for making a decision and a time limit. I know what you mean about just having done that much—putting a deadline on how much longer you'll have to feel that way—going a long way towards stress relief.
 
Didn't you say somewhere that Dag makes comments/jokes occasionally about not wanting to run into Andy in case he "has a shotgun" or some such thing? Like because he's your husband, he going to want to kill your lover? It would really irritate me if someone I was seeing joked like that. It's like he doesn't really understand poly, and it made me wonder if everything is on the up and up between him and his wife. Does she consent to his having other relationships? Have you ever talked to him about that?
 
KC43 and Reverie, thanks... It helps (a lot) just to realize I'm not crazy for feeling like the situation is untenable.

Didn't you say somewhere that Dag makes comments/jokes occasionally about not wanting to run into Andy in case he "has a shotgun" or some such thing? Like because he's your husband, he going to want to kill your lover? It would really irritate me if someone I was seeing joked like that. It's like he doesn't really understand poly, and it made me wonder if everything is on the up and up between him and his wife. Does she consent to his having other relationships? Have you ever talked to him about that?

They have a DADT thing going. He's either being honest about that or he's the worlds worst cheater and his wife is mind blowingly dumb ;) He once accidentally sent her a text meant for me - a "hey sexy I'm at the hotel" kind of text :eek:. I was looking over his shoulder as he texted an apology and her reaction was along the lines of "you need to get better at using that fancy messaging app, now let's never speak of this again".

I used to try and talk to him about whether he was happy in his marriage but honestly he doesn't like to think about that much. To him, marriage and kids are just what you do and divorce is only an option in the most extreme cases. His home life is all about the kids - one kid has special needs so a lot of it is structured around that. He and his wife both get their nights off from parent duty and he has no idea if she's really out with the girls or out with a boyfriend. I wouldn't want that kind of marriage, but I don't judge. If his wife would prefer to hear that Dag just likes to spend the night alone at hotels 20 minutes from his house than that he has a girlfriend, that's her choice I guess.

Your comment that maybe he "doesn't understand poly" kind of made me laugh because most days *I* don't understand poly :rolleyes: I have actually been meaning to write about that here, so, um, stay tuned I guess ;)
 
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