Watching cowgirl metamour mess with boyfriend's head, ugh ugh ugh

scarletzinnia

New member
I'm one of two girlfriends that C has, plus a wife. C and I have been together about a year now, and the other girlfriend has been with him about that long too. His marriage is over 20 years old. C's marriage was stable when we both started dating him, but it has deteriorated over the past year, for reasons I don't fully understand. I have strongly supported C trying to work through issues with his wife the entire time and have tried to give him constructive advice and support towards this goal. I don't know the wife face to face, only virtually (her choice), but I respect her and he still loves her and they have kids, so I definitely would like to see them work things out.

The other girlfriend, J, was married when C met her, but her marriage broke up last winter and she is getting divorced. She is unable to find a job in her field, hasn't worked since last summer, and will likely have to move in with her parents this summer, in a faraway state, unless she finds a job.

Two weeks ago C's wife hit a low patch and told him she didn't want to work things out or go to counseling with him, that she just wanted out. C was unhappy about that. Nothing concrete has happened since then, the wife hasn't called a lawyer, sought to move out, anything, that I know of. They have been talking a lot more since and she has indicated she is open to counseling again, which I think is great. I believe she still loves him, but has a lot of buried anger dating back from him having a drinking problem a few years ago. (He's clean now, has been so for two years.)

Apparently J got her hopes up two weeks ago, that C would be available for a primary, live-in relationship with her, that his wife would leave with the kids and make him available for such (and presumably he'd support her financially at least in the short term, since she has no job or money). C told her this week that even if he and his wife do split up, he isn't sure about moving in with her or taking on the parenting of her young child. He told me that they saw each other this weekend and he told her that for the foreseeable future at least, he was planning on staying with his wife and trying to work through their issues. Well, J. told him to give her his key and leave, that it was over. He didn't argue, he left. Not 24 hours later, she was texting him and begging him to come back on any terms, even if they were never primary partners.

I think getting back with J would be a terrible idea and so does his wife and his therapist and anyone who knows about it. Of course, he will make his own decision.

Does anyone have any tips on how to support him through this? I am trying very hard not to be too blunt with him about what I think, but it is SO hard. I know J to be manipulative, unstable, demanding, dishonest, and a host of other bad shit. C told me last night that J actually made him wait on her, that he spent their precious weekly date nights doing her grocery shopping and laundry and who knows what else, not to mention essentially being her chauffeur, she refused to ever drive herself to a date, even if he had to drive hours to take her. (No, he is not a sub.) I was horrified. I also know he loves her, and he's softhearted. I don't want to be overbearing, or to think badly of him if he caves and takes her back for another round of drama.

Also, if anyone has any good links that he could read that might help him see things more clearly, I will pass them on.
 
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I would stay very, very far away from any comment at all about that relationship and in fact would be deeply questioning my own attraction to a person who is so heavily entrenched in that dynamic, on top of being in a marriage that is on a rocky road. J can't insert herself (the cowgirl premise) and mess with anyone's head who doesn't allow her to and you can't "save" your BF from the magnetic pull he feels here. You really have to just let them work it out, but honestly, do you even want to be part of this mess?

.....J actually made him wait on her, that he spent their precious weekly date nights doing her grocery shopping and laundry and who knows what else, not to mention essentially being her chauffeur, she refused to ever drive herself to a date, even if he had to drive hours to take her.
 
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Thanks, Karen. I am really hoping they can save their marriage, or at least delay separation until the kids are grown and off to college. I won't hold it against a partner if their marriage fails, although I don't want to be the collateral damage there either.

Why do I love C? Well, he's kind, smart, funny, caring, sensitive, communicative, honest, and sexy as hell. And he loves me, which is very meaningful to me. But he's a a little insecure, and I, and his therapist, think that the relationship with J is unhealthy in that J is always falling apart, never able to cope with her life, so C gets to be her white knight, her stability, and that makes him feel good, at least in the short term. I don't know why some men are attracted to "projects," to unstable needy clingy women, but they are. My own husband has struggled with this too. C's therapist also thinks that J has borderline personality disorder. I have had limited interactions with J, but from what I have seen, the therapist could be spot on.
 
I won't hold it against a partner if their marriage fails..

Just to be clear: I'm not faulting him for a challenge in his marriage. Anyone who has a long term relationship will go through difficult times and sometimes people decide to part. That's life. But this takes an enormous amount of energy and emotional reserve to deal with well. Plus, he has you, which takes energy (I assume positive source, but the relationship takes energy, as all do.) Plus, he is drawn to this other drama-deep GF, which takes massive energy. That's what I'm wondering about. No woman can cowgirl her way into someone's life who isn't more or less inviting her to.
 
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...I think getting back with J would be a terrible idea and so does his wife and his therapist and anyone who knows about it. Of course, he will make his own decision.

Does anyone have any tips on how to support him through this? I am trying very hard not to be too blunt with him about what I think, but it is SO hard...


You think what you think. You feel what you feel.

Has he ASKED for your opinion? If so, I would say that you give it as objectively and compassionately as possible ("In my opinion, the dynamic you have with J is not healthy for you.") If not, keep it to yourself. If you feel that you can't, that you have to say something, then: "This is probably none of my business, but I care about you and have observed x/y/z about your relationship with J. I am concerned that you are only going to get hurt/hamper your goal to fix things with your wife/drive me away if you continue to indulge in this unhealthy relationship."

If he is over-sharing with you about his other relationship woes? Ask him to stop. "It pains me to hear about your relationship woes with others - when I have no power to help. If you want my advice, I'm happy to give it. If you don't, then I can't listen to more of this."
 
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I definitely would like to see them work things out.
I am really hoping they can save their marriage, or at least delay separation until the kids are grown . . .
Save their marriage? As if the contract is more important than the people involved? Hmmm.

Perhaps, for them, "working things out" for the best possible outcome does indeed mean splitting up. There is really no way for you to know what is right for them, nor for their children (who might be better off if they split, or might even be hoping that will happen), so I'd stay out of it, if I were you, including what you hope for them.
 
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I hardly think supporting a partner's marriage staying intact equates to valuing a contract over people, nycindie.

It's not a contract. It's over 20 years together, two children who are still at home and most likely would prefer to continue to live with both parents, it's finances that I know for a fact would not be elastic enough to support two households without standards of living plummeting to rock bottom. And it's two people who still care about each other and have stood by each other through a lot.

It may not be enough, we will see. And if he ever told me he felt done with the relationship, I would fully support that. But he isn't saying that, he's saying that he loves her and would prefer to work it out. And that's good enough for me.
 
. . . he's saying that he loves her and would prefer to work it out. And that's good enough for me.
Okay. All I am saying is that "working it out" may just mean ending the marriage, if ultimately that works better than staying together. Sometimes the most loving thing one can do is to let go of the person they love (and the institution/contract/partnership -- ie., marriage -- that connects them).

I say that only because... if you root only for them to stay together and then they don't, you unwittingly fuel a sense of failure and/or disappointment from the sidelines. There is nothing more defeating than when people outside a situation say, "Oh, too bad you couldn't make it work!" to a couple who splits up. Ugh, it's awful to hear that. Oftentimes, if it reaches that point, then a split is usually what needs to happen for everyone's good.

Indeed, you state that you do not know why his marriage has been deteriorating. Plus, you only know C's side of the story, really. It doesn't matter whether he still loves her and she still loves him, or not. So what? Love is only one element that makes a marriage work, and probably the least practical element, at that. It takes so much more than that. But there is also the unrealistic idea that a marriage, with or without offspring in the picture, must last forever.

Maybe their relationship has simply run its course and it is time to move on. There is nothing wrong with that at all! Dealing with one household splitting into two, and the financial aspect -- is for them to worry about, not you.

You asked for ways in which to support C through what he is going through right now. My feedback is this -- rather than rooting for he and his wife to stay together, root for them to reach the best possible outcome for themselves, even if it means splitting up. But don't get involved in counseling him, coaching him, offering what you think is "constructive" advice, or anything like that. Also, if I were you, would not interfere with the choice he may have before him about whether to get back with J. or not. Both of these situations are tricky, but up to him to figure out on his own - they do not fall under your purview. Nothing you should do beyond offering a shoulder to lean on and an ear to listen. But pushing in any direction? You will only add to the mess, I believe.
 
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I think you also have to be honest about the resentment and jealousy you are plagued with in regards to this woman. You've always disliked her in a similar way you seem to dislike any person a partner of yours sees, with the exception of spouses because you have one of those yourself thus cannot complain.

The reason why this horrified you so much is because you know that she would not allow you the type of intimacy with C that his wife allows. It's obvious that you want a relationship where you are the only "additional" partner outside of the primary relationship. Why don't you be honest with yourself and seek that?

Really, why shouldn't she want to "upgrade" a partner to primary status if they become avaliable for that? Okay, maybe she got in there a little swiftly but there isn't anything wrong with her wanting a primary relationship with her partner. You cannot have that with him, she potentially could. I think that's what you dislike So intensely.
 
You definitely have a point, nycindie. I don't want C to feel like a failure if his marriage does break up despite his best efforts.

He does ask me for advice. He will fret about his marriage being less physically affectionate and less communicative, than it used to be. And I have tried to offer suggestions on how he can change that. I have recommended that he try to figure out her love languages, to initiate affection more even if she isn't, to go out on dates with her and generally plan special time for just the two of them. But mostly I've tried to get him to see a professional polyfriendly therapist. He had a horrible time finding one in his area, but he did find one for himself recently and he says it is helping him a lot. He says the next step will be his therapist referring him to someone who can counsel both him and his wife.

C is also asking me what I think about J and what happened between them this past weekend, and asking me what I would do, and I have told him what I think. But he says that he won't do anything until he talks to his therapist again.

MightyMax, you may as well save your keystrokes and not comment on my threads. I got tired of your ignorant assumptions and almost complete lack of any in-depth knowledge about polyamory, months ago, and I blocked your posts. All I see is "This user is on your ignore list."
 
Considering you try and break up the every relationship a partner has. Considering that you are constantly and consistently plagued with crippling jealousy and hatred for every metamour. And considering that you are so selfish and possessive of all your partners. It is nothing but another demonstration of your blinding audacity to accuse me of understanding less about polyamory than you. Look back at your posting history. Every single thread you write is about your inability to stop interfering and trying to control your partner's other relationships. Every single one without fail.

I know you read my posts, because someone like you wouldn't be able to help seeing what people have said about you. Pretend to ignore them if you want, but I warn you that unless you stop what you are doing, you will end up a lonely and bitter old woman because not even your children will want to be around someone who cannot stop interfering. That is the truth.
 
I am sorry you struggle. Do YOU have enough support through this?

I am going to lift something up. Usually last paragraphs are the thing. Your last things in the original post that pop up at me are these:

  • I also know he loves her, and he's softhearted.
  • I don't want to be overbearing, or to think badly of him if he caves and takes her back for another round of drama

So taking them one at a time...

I also know he loves her, and he's softhearted.

Perhaps ask him if he wants to learn to set stronger personal boundaries with love at this time. If not, respect that.

And then flip it. Is it that YOU love him and are soft hearted? Are you making excuses for HIS behavior here where you need to set limits with love? Do you need to set stronger boundaries with him so he isn't oversharing?

He's got a therapist. The best answer right now so he gets to offload but NOT on you might be to say "I don't do this topic. This is a therapist topic" and be firm on that.

One comforts in, kvetches out. He sounds like he forgets you are in the polyship too, in the middle ring too.

So he's basically kvetching in, draining you. When I read your post, I got a big sense of "Fix this! Fix her!" Why? So he stops draining you? You might not like her much, but the one who is draining you is him with all his tales.

You can fix it enough for you. You could have a boundary asking him not to overshare and talk those trigger-y things with his therapist -- and not you. The therapist is more appropriate for those topics.

You have your own load to process.

I don't want to be overbearing, or to think badly of him if he caves and takes her back for another round of drama

Could you be willing to clarify?

What is the "overbearing behavior" you do not want to do? Is it actually overbearing?

If he takes her back for another round of drama, you do not think it is appropriate for you to feel tired of it? And to feel disappointed in his choice? :confused:

Or is it not this "thinking badly of him" stage of it, but the one following that you are warding off having to spend time thinking about? The one where you ask yourself "So why am *I* here for a second trip? I don't have to ride this bus. I didn't buy another ticket."

I get that is an uncomfortable thought, but... maybe spend some time thinking on it anyway? It's nice to be supportive and encouraging, but at the same time, not go too far with it where you throw your own well-being under the bus. Your job in life is not to be his life raft or his personal dumping ground. YKWIM?

Which circles back to having firmer boundaries with him.

Is that the overbearing thing? Do you think setting and enforcing strong boundaries with him on this topic is you being overbearing?:confused:

Galagirl
 
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Hi scarletzinnia,

My vote is to advise C as little as possible. His therapist can advise him. It's up to C to decide what to do about J. If he asks your opinion, answer as succinctly and simply as possible, e.g., "I think getting back together with J would be a mistake." And that's it. It's not your job to tell him what to do about his other relationships, that's his job. If *your* needs aren't being met in your relationship with him, go ahead and bring that up. But if it doesn't affect you in that way, let it go.

I do think you should be able to vent here, and I agree with you that J sounds like a really bad partner. She's not just a cowgirl, she's a bad egg in general. But, C loves her, whatever his reasons. Love is blind, or it is in this case.

That's all I can really tell you at the moment. I hope C and J stay split up.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for your supportive words, galagirl and Kevin T. Galagirl, mostly I don't want to think he's an idiot if he takes J. back He's not. And I have certainly done some stupid things when I was in love. I really don't mind C. confiding in me the way he does, we have always had a relationship that was rooted in giving each other a lot of emotional support. He helped me to get over an ex who was really messing with my head as a "friend," and put him firmly behind me. So I want to help him through this, whatever it turns out to be. I have told him, I don't think it's possible to move forward in a positive way once someone has already treated you as disposable when you don't fit their agenda, as J has done. But now I'm shutting up, and will try to stomach whatever decision he makes no matter how wrong I think he is.
 
I think you have the right idea scarletzinnia. Keep us posted ...
 
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