New here and desperate for help

Smitten015

New member
Hello all,

This is going to be long but context is of the utmost importance. I will do my absolute best to present the facts as they are.

I met my girlfriend 4 years ago and she immediately presented polyamory to me. Fundamentally something I've always believed in but didn't know what to call it. In 4 years we've gone through some transitions. At times she closed the relationship and more recently (January, I did.). During our 4 years, we've only ever played together with others, which we quite enjoyed. About 3.5 months ago my girlfriend met a man at work whom she very quickly fell in love with. Now, because we are "closed" at the moment she wasn't and still isn't pushing any physical actuation on me. Some complications arose from him being married - it is only a highly emotional relationship at the moment. He has 4 kids, not with his current wife. Coinciding with the beginning of their "relationship", I had started a new medication to alleviate nerve damage I had suffered from my football years. The medication caused me to have severe psychotropic side effects that culminated in me considering suicide Aug 20. The meds also seriously affected my ability to process emotionally. Admittedly I was awful. Nothing physical on my end but there were many instances where arguments degenerated into massive counterproductive blowouts. I and the meds put her through hell. She's concerned the tumult caused her to be pushed closer to this new man. I believe she is right, their relationship has never been able to flourish organically... it might not be what it is... anyway, back to him being married; his wife is now kicking him and his kids out. During the 3 months, they have had "awkward high school" sexual interactions - as my girlfriend put it. They have had some random groping, kissed 3 times... sort of. Etc. My emotuonality has be back and forth so I sometimes gave the go ahead amd then didn't (thanks meds) so their marriage is finished, he assures us that my girlfriend had nothing to do with it. Since I stopped taking the meds 3 weeks ago my ability to process and think have improved dramatically... however, I am still having a heck of a time with aspects of this "friendship". He's concealed the emotionality of their relationship from his wife at all times but given where their marriage is going, that point is moot. I insisted on meeting him about 10 days ago and we did. It went well, we got on. Exchanged phone numbers and started chatting a little; I learned he was into guitars so I offered to bestow some of my knowledge to him, gave him resources etc. We met a second time and had about 15 minutes alone together, we discussed polyamory and our mutual love and friendship with my girlfriend. He stated that he can't do what we do but he loves her. I respected his feelings and candidness, the boundaries between the 3 of us had been set. So I thought. Last Thursday he essentially "broke up" with my girlfriend. Meaning he couldn't deal with me being in the picture, said it was weird and he didnt want to share. He said he'd want so much more. She came home that evening and we cried together, I felt what she did, I held her and poured her some scotch ordered pizza and watched silly movies. The next day, we had planned to spend together... she wanted to meet him for an hour to discuss the previous evening. I was reluctant, given the plan but after she had gotten upset, I acquiesced. They met and ended up kissing and groping one another... which was revealed amidst a breakdown I had the following day when for hours we cried together and I stated that I couldn't handle how this was ripping her and myself apart emotionally. I stated I would leave to keep her as intact as I can. She said she couldn't picture life without me, she would never leave me for him. I don't want to leave... she is the love of my life... she feels the same but I can't keep struggling with this like I have and preserve who she is and who I am. I need help. It was very emotional. We came to an agreement on how to proceed and that they would solidify their boundaries. I keep putting on myself that they are going to have a sexual relationship... one way or another and I have to be ok with it now.... i know that's ridiculous. I'm such a mess. I'm concerned the hold over negativity while on the meds and all the back and forth has sullied the whole situation for me and I'll never get over it while simultaneously believing in this lifestyle. I don't think he's a good fit but that doesn't matter... ugh... there's so many more nuances but let's start there. I hope somone has some ideas for me because I'm stuck in an awful cycle right now.
 
Hi Smitten015,

It sounds like you need your girlfriend to break up with this guy. After all, he does not want to share her, and he broke up with her temporarily. Even with the subsequent kissing and groping, he must know that she is not a good fit for him, and she must know that he is not a good fit for her. So, what makes sense is for them to break up permanently. But you can't make that choice for them, they have to decide it between themselves. In the meantime, you are in limbo. You have to figure out how long you can stand to be in this state. You may get to a point where you can't stand it anymore, and then you'll probably break up with your girlfriend. I hope it doesn't come to that, I am just saying it out loud so you know what to expect. If you can, try to discuss this with your girlfriend and let her know that you need her to break up with the other guy. She could refuse, of course, but at least she'll know that that's what you want/need.

There are other possibilities, such as the other guy deciding that he can share after all. Plus even if your girlfriend breaks up with him, she may get together with someone else and then you'll need to decide if you can tolerate that. You'll need to decide if you can tolerate poly. Right now I'm assuming you can under the right circumstances, but I could be wrong.

I hope things improve for you in the near future.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
That's some rough stuff to be dealing with on top of medication, Smitten. I can only imagine the mental turmoil you must have been going through.

A couple of things come to mind: Firstly, it sounds like this other man is not really poly. Which is fine, but it does sound like your girlfriend is more or less poly. I think she needs to ask herself if, even if you two do break up so they could be together, will she be okay being with someone that doesn't want to share? (also as an aside I dislike that description of multiple partners; we're humans and we decide who we're with, we're not objects to be shared).

Take it from someone who has struggled occasionally with my wife being with other men: You can be okay with it. In the last year in particular, I have really managed to reconcile the fact that my wife being with other men has nothing to do with me. That's a story for another time, perhaps, but given patience and intention of thought, those negative feelings regarding your paramour do not have to drive you forever. I, too, have worried about "sullying" the situation, but with an understanding partner and a lot of self-reflection, you can feel better about it all.

Please know you're not alone and others have been through similar situations. We're here for you,

-Kyle
 
It doesn't sound like any of you were polyamorous. You two were more like swingers. So this is the first time anything resembling poly has happened...and she picks a guy who is probably going to try to cowboy her away. That's a lot to process, especially with the med situation.

Since you two have entered this new territory you really need to talk about what's going on. The best thing would be for her to quit seeing this guy until you two have established what this new phase is. Has she ever had multiple relationships like this before?

Basically she has changed the game on you without your consent. You have a right to be upset about that.
 
Marriage & Polamory

Hello all ... I met my girlfriend 4 years ago and she immediately presented polyamory to me. Fundamentally something I've always believed in but didn't know what to call it ...

The situation where one person who hasn't got a clear picture about what polyamory is is suddenly presented with "Honey I'm Polyamorous" creates an immediate imbalance that is sometimes difficult to adapt to. Ideally, before any decisions are made based on this new information, it is a good idea to become more well informed about what polyamory really is and whether or not you can engineer a truly poly lifestyle for you both.

I've recently written a page on Polyamory & Marriage but being new here am hesitant to post links until the mods understand that my intent is only to provide a genuine resource

( Mods please advise - my site is a "pet project" but I also think it can be helpful to forum participants, so I'd appreciate your guidance on how to do it right. ).

Without cutting and posting the whole article here, basically, the view that it's OK for mono people ( which married people by definition are ) to bolt poly people on to their otherwise boring love lives is IMO hypocritical and unethical. There's a huge imbalance in status, and it reduces poly people to disposable sex-toys. So no matter how attractive somebody's husband or wife is, participating in adultery with them is just a conceptually bad idea that carries a significant risk of loss for the poly person, as well as the other issues you've described.
 
Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words so I know I got it how you mean it. You correct me if I get anything wrong ok? I quote just to viusally block it off.

CAST
  • You
  • GF
  • Dude
  • Dude's Wife

RECENT PAST

You and GF were Closed. (There were past “Open” and “Closed” phases in the relationship where sex share with others was fine. But right now it was Closed.)

She got involved with Dude. They were both cheating on their agreements.
  • GF because you and her were supposed to be Closed. She failed to renegotiate "Open" before going there.
  • Dude because he kept the whole thing secret from his wife.

You took all this poorly. Not just because it was GF cheating on Closed agreements but because pain meds you were on were amplifying things and affecting your ability to process emotions.

PRESENT DAY

Dude's Wife is aware of the cheating and kicked him and his kids (not hers) out. They are now getting divorced.

You tried to make peace with it, agreed to Open, met the guy, etc. That went poorly because he decided he doesn't want to share. He only wants GF, so if it cannot be that he is bowing out. He dumped GF.

GF was all upset over the break up and you tried to comfort her.

Next day she wants to break your plans to be together in favor of seeing him. (Breaking her agreements with you again)

You are not thrilled about being stood up, but give in because of all the upset and break up drama. She goes to see him and ends up making out with him. So neither of them is honoring the “we are broken up now” thing. (Another broken agreement.) After all that? You have a break down and somewhere in there.

YOUR SOLUTiON TO FREE YOU FROM DRAMA

You decided you are fed up with all this. You tell her you want to part ways. You are at the place of “I love you a lot. But not even for you will I keep myself in a situation that is hurting me.”

If you leave, then you will be free FROM all this drama. And she is free TO date him or whoever else she pleases without dinging you any more because you are out of the line of fire. This way, you can preserve your integrity, your sense of self, and your self-respect. That is better to you than continuing to endure things you are not up for.

If that's the nutshell? Sounds like GF wants you to stick around even though you are miserable and Dude doesn't even want a V. Not very kind to either of her partners. Sounds like it is all about what she wants/gets.

I think your choice to bow out IS the best course of action. You bow out and get away from these people.

You believe in poly and want to move toward practicing poly rather than just Open like swinging or casual sex. But you cannot do it well with THIS bunch of people. It doesn't have to be "If I believe in poly I have to poly with anyone who comes along, even wacky behaving people." You can have personal standards for who you will and will not allow yourself to hang around with. If they don't make the cut? You stop hanging around them.

I don't know what in this situation makes you think he is a “good fit” when he cheats on his marriage agreements and he doesn't even want to be in a V thing. He cannot even stick to his own choice of breaking up. What makes you think he will keep any new agreements when his track record is like this?

He sounds more like a cowboy roping her off. And she's all to willing to go and break her own agreements.

I think if your goal is to have your life be peaceful and heal from all this upheaval? You have to take the pot off the burner so you don't bubble over again like "same old song, different day."

You said you wanted to bow out -- so keep on going whether she likes it or not. Whether a trial separation or a total break up... give yourself some space AWAY from these people and their drama.

This is NOT developing organically. There's too much soap opera. Do not mistake feelings of “urgency” for what is “actually important.” To me this sounds like "runaway train" and it isn't done yet.

I'm also cynical. Not to put too fine a point on it? At this point in time? He's kicked out and saddled with a bunch of kids. On his side? Be nice to slide on to GF and into her place, so he has a built in home/mom/housekeeper/sex dispenser person to ease up his load while he deals with divorce. Great deal for him.

Not so great a deal for her. Hopefully she opens up her eyes and isn't fooled by the "damsel in distress" thing he seems to be doing so she "rescues" him from a situation of his own making. Or whatever other game he's playing.

But if she doesn't wise up and keeps on with with this Dude? Best you step aside so you don't get splashed with the drama she has invited in.

Whether you and GF make up and try to date again in the future once she gets over this Dude? Leave that problem to future. Your problems TODAY are she's hopped on the bus to Crazy Town. But you do NOT have to accompany her even if she wants you to.

Even if you love her a lot? If this situation is hurting you? IT IS OK TO SAY “NO, THANKS. LET ME OFF THE BUS."

The meds may be amplifying your reactions but that doesn't mean your response to all this hinky is wrong.

There's a WHOLE lot of wrong here. :(

Im sorry you deal in this. I sugest you be firm and not put up with hinky.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks

First, thanks everyone for your posts and help.


Galagirl, there's a few facts that may have been miscommunicated.

1. Their relationship beyond the rare kiss and touch has mostly been nothing more than a very loving friendship.
2. His marriage was on the outs when they met (hadn't been physical for over 2 years). His wife only knows that GF is a friend. Knows nothing about anything physical nor the love aspect. It had been noted that he thought they found each other to help with bad relationships. GF stated that purs was wonderful prior.
3. We do not have an embargo on loving friendships
4. We haven't decided to open yet. GF is trying to work with me to help me deal with being open for him and/or anyone else. There's no rush or pressure on this. She keeps telling me but I feel a sense of urgency.
5. We have been poly together for 4 years, she had been for 12 but in a bad situation with previous marriage that she left. I helped get her out of an abusive marriage, as she also did for me.
6. Despite his objections. Actually don't know where he's at but GF wants him to have the space and tools to evolve if he can or wants to.
7. I said I didnt think he was a good fit
8. She tells me that he's never tried to drive a wedge... not sure I believe that but she has stated she's jumped to my defense before. She says he only conducts himself with the information he is given.
9. She doesnt ascribe to the grass is greener mentality. She will not leave me for him. I believe her.
10. Been off the meds for 3 weeks. Some withdrawl symtoms but much more in control of my mind now.

Does that help?
 
First, thanks everyone for your posts and help.


Galagirl, there's a few facts that may have been miscommunicated.

1. Their relationship beyond the rare kiss and touch has mostly been nothing more than a very loving friendship.
2. His marriage was on the outs when they met (hadn't been physical for over 2 years). His wife only knows that GF is a friend. Knows nothing about anything physical nor the love aspect. It had been noted that he thought they found each other to help with bad relationships. GF stated that purs was wonderful prior.
3. We do not have an embargo on loving friendships
4. We haven't decided to open yet. GF is trying to work with me to help me deal with being open for him and/or anyone else. There's no rush or pressure on this. She keeps telling me but I feel a sense of urgency.
5. We have been poly together for 4 years, she had been for 12 but in a bad situation with previous marriage that she left. I helped get her out of an abusive marriage, as she also did for me.
6. Despite his objections. Actually don't know where he's at but GF wants him to have the space and tools to evolve if he can or wants to.
7. I said I didnt think he was a good fit
8. She tells me that he's never tried to drive a wedge... not sure I believe that but she has stated she's jumped to my defense before. She says he only conducts himself with the information he is given.
9. She doesnt ascribe to the grass is greener mentality. She will not leave me for him. I believe her.
10. Been off the meds for 3 weeks. Some withdrawl symtoms but much more in control of my mind now.

Does that help?

I am not very experienced at romantic love, but I know what it is like to be on these kinds of whirlwind relationships is like. I mean, mine is my sister but the principles are the same.

Firstly, there is nothing wrong with you wanting to stay together with your GF. It is how you feel.

However, I can almost guarantee that it will not be healthy for you. I know that you came here to seek out reassurances for your relationship because you love this girl, however the current situation is untenable. She is clearly letting her love for this guy overrule your own well being. She cannot control how she feels, sure, none of us can. However, this new guy seems to have no interest in meeting with her halfway for her relationship style and is instead demanding that she conform to his standards. This is not healthy for your relationship with her or hers with him. Until she can control her feelings for him in a way that doesn't hurt you (who she says she loves more) then this is going to keep happening, meds or no.

You both rescued each other from abuse, and that's great. But it also makes both of you more likely to enter bad situations like this one. I don't claim to be an expert on these things, but I can tell you from experience with my sister is the only way forward is to escape the bad situation. Preferably, you could spring two tickets for a vacation. Some place far away from the new guy who is hurting you two. Get both of you away from him and his toxicity and just revel in your relationship with each other for a while. Then come back to your home with fresh eyes on this whole thing.

Either that or you have to recognize that as much as you love this girl she is dragging you into another abusive situation, though she doesn't intend to.

I'm not the best at all of this, but that is what I could glean off of all this.

Hope it helps,

~PoorSystem
 
A few more details

Good morning everyone!

I have a few other things I thought I should voice.

Everytime things have gotten rough in the primary relationship, he has (sort of) attempted to back off. Several times now, It's neen like a yoyo. With none of the backing off lasting more than. We've tried cutting off communication and sharing breaks together short term, She sent him a couple emails and he sent a few texts, failed after 48 hours. Then we tried talking about it everytime she felt she had to communicate with him (while I was around, her time is her time) - failed. After the weekend where I broke down she decided to relegate their interactions to the mornings buy no breaks. She responded by going to work an hour early amd sneaking in other meetings when the opportunity was there. She did decide tp try being fully honest about everything with me but that meant rather than a heads up, she might tell me after the fact. She wasn't supposed to meet him this morning because he's not working, he showed up at 430 am anyway. Did I mention all their workmates and boss thinks they're sleeping together? I asked them to get that rectified as it was embarassing for me. She keeps placing these restriction or temporary protocols in place and keeps nibbling at the edges. It's very frustrating. There so many levels of small subversiveness occurring and when I catch them, am told that they're not a big deal and should trust her. Thing is: I trust her to not have sex with him because we've discussed, right now, that would be disaterous for everyone. Speaking of the tickets. We are taking off for 5 days, so interesting you mentioned that. Anyway, i should also mention that we never agreed to veto power in our relationship. Or restricted anything on pursuing genuine connections. We did have a no married people who aren't poly rule - especially if the other spouse doesn't know but for some reason that's now irrelevant. She wants more time with him because she says it's easy to be great 1 hour at a time... maybe she doesn't actually feel this way about him but she doesnt know. Between the regular fear and inconsistencies I'm having a helluva time allow space for everything. For context, she did have a love interest last year. I knew him, likes him, and trusted him. What few problems I had were fairly easily dealt with. That situation never came to pass because the guy was not poly and jealousy issues but recognized that and promptly backed off. He was 22, this guy is 42 and acts quite the opposite. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts if I went back to meeting him again he'd have a similar freak out as he did before. I do believe my GF is being selfish and digging in over this but this behaviour is contrary to who she usually is. I hope some of this elaborates a little.
 
Thank you for more clarification. That helps. So does making more/smaller paragraphs to break up the text for readability so it is not big blobs of text.

For me "loving friendship" does not include making out and groping. That's reserved for romantic relationships. And things would have to be Open already for me to go there.
But sounds like you guys operate a different way and place the line in a different location than I do. Things are "Closed" but making out with friends is ok.

2. His marriage was on the outs when they met (hadn't been physical for over 2 years). His wife only knows that GF is a friend. Knows nothing about anything physical nor the love aspect

That's grey area to me. Some people start dating when separated but not yet legally divorced. That is "over" to them. Some have other agreements around when the marriage is "actually over." I have no idea what Dude's agreements with his Wife are... and if this is on the level or if this is cheater-ish.

It sounds too weird for me to get involved with him. I'd be more like "Ok, I'd be interested. Call me when your divorce is DONE" and I would wait. Because dating people going through divorce or fresh out of a divorce is not ideal to me. I don't want to be a rebound thing. And if there's no rush, why rush?

6. Despite his objections. Actually don't know where he's at but GF wants him to have the space and tools to evolve if he can or wants to.

He said he doesn't want to. Last Thursday he broke up with GF, he can't deal with you being in the picture, said it was weird and he didn't want to share. To me that sounds pretty definite NO. I guess GF is having a hard time accepting that and wants to believe he will change his mind. She's not giving him space if she's "chasing him." And she's not telling him "No, take the space and think things out for a while" when he comes looking for her.

4. We haven't decided to open yet. GF is trying to work with me to help me deal with being open for him and/or anyone else. There's no rush or pressure on this. She keeps telling me but I feel a sense of urgency.

It's hard not to feel anxious/urgent when her behavior is all over the place. And you think he is NOT a good match. And all this behavior is out of character for her.

If for her there is "no rush" then why not respect Dude's "No" and let this one go? And give you a break from all the "at home care?" Could ask her that.

One of the things my spouse told me a long time ago is that he's ok with me seeing other people and having other relationships. He is NOT ok being the chronic "clean up guy" dealing with my upset and providing emotional support all the time if my other relationships go awry when he didn't even do anything. Like... why's he the one left holding the bag just cuz he lives here?

I agreed with him. Support once in a while is fine, but when it becomes a chronic up and down drain? Things have to change or end because nobody wants to be sucked dry. I would expect him to tell me he's at his final straw and ask me to change my behavior or else he's bowing out. His consent to participate belongs to him. He can vote "no confidence" and walk away from things. I would do same if it was reversed.

10. Been off the meds for 3 weeks. Some withdrawl symtoms but much more in control of my mind now.

Glad you are feeling better mentally now that you are off the meds.

She keeps placing these restriction or temporary protocols in place and keeps nibbling at the edges.

Says one thing, does another. It is going to be hard for you to trust in her Word when she behaves like that. It's not solid.

How about when she suggests new agreements you say "No, thank you. I prefer no restrictions. We can skip the restrictions, you do what you want."

Then you watch her behavior and decide if that is behavior you can admire/respect in another person. And if it is behavior that respects you and treats you how you want to be treated.

We did have a no married people who aren't poly rule - especially if the other spouse doesn't know but for some reason that's now irrelevant.
Again... say one thing, do another.

Her behavior right now sounds poor. Dude broke up with her and she's still kinda "chasing" him. He shows up at her work? He's not honoring the broken up thing either. Maybe neither of them has a Word. When people don't keep their Word, and follow through on agreements, it's hard to trust them. There's no consistency.

The whole thing sounds too weird for me. I can see why you would feel frustrated/upset by it all. I would be too! So to help reduce my frustrations, I would say no new agreements. No restrictions. Then I'm not getting upset by a load of new broken ones.

She behaves as she pleases. And I observe and decide if this is a person I still want to keep going with or not. If she behaved great in the past but today behaves poorly? After three attempts to ask her to change behavior? If she doesn't and keeps on dinging me? Then I bow out. I cannot control her behavior but I can control mine. I can change my "staying" behavior.

You might have a different number for second chances, but I imagine it is not going to be 100 second chances, 1000, 1 million. Right? Could figure out where you limit of tolerance lies.
Then simply start counting. It's hard to FEEL maybe... but the actions then become really simple for you. You state your limit of tolerance, and sit back and count how many times that line gets crossed.

Between the regular fear and inconsistencies I'm having a helluva time allow space for everything.

Why do you have to allow space for everything? It's ok to say where your limits are. "No. I am not up for that at this time."

There so many levels of small subversiveness occurring and when I catch them, am told that they're not a big deal and should trust her.

They are important and a big deal to YOU. Rather than minimize or make excuse, she could apologize and rectify her behavior so you aren't getting dinged over and over.

And trust her with what? Because right now, when you catch her in a new broken agreement, she is not demonstrating that you can trust her at her Word. So what's this other thing she wants you to trust her to do based on her current track record?

I do believe my GF is being selfish and digging in over this but this behaviour is contrary to who she usually is.

I guess I just don't see what's so great about a 42 yr old about to divorce guy with a lot of kids who runs hot and cold, broke up with me last Thurs, and then comes to my work at 4:30 AM interrupting me there.

The whole thing sounds too weird for me.

After all that is this still the bottom line? You are tired of all this and even though you don't want to leave, you are thinking that's the only healthy thing to do right now?

I stated that I couldn't handle how this was ripping her and myself apart emotionally. I stated I would leave to keep her as intact as I can. She said she couldn't picture life without me, she would never leave me for him. I don't want to leave... she is the love of my life... she feels the same but I can't keep struggling with this like I have and preserve who she is and who I am. I need help.

I don't think it is wrong to bow out and vote "too weird for me." There's only so much hinky I'm willing to deal in and this situation has lots. You seem to see that things are weird here clearly enough. Your consent to participate in things belongs to YOU. You can revoke it if a situation changes and become intolerable. If I signed up for one thing and it became this other thing... well, I did not sign up for that. I would not keep going.

If you need help sorting all this out, perhaps seeing a counselor? There is nothing wrong with seeking more help. I encourage you to do that.

But with or without a counselor help... I def encourage you to do some soul searching, and then take action.

If you are having emotional breakdowns from all the stress? You may have to accept that she's hell bent on going there. She's not changing course.

So all you can do is decide if you want to go there and keep her company on the ride or if you want to get off the Bus. Which is the healthier option for you?

Galagirl
 
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I edited that bit out of my edit because I mis-read your post and thought your husband expected to be able to have sex with any women you became involved with.

As I said, if "threesomes only" is what you and your husband want, then go for it. Just dont expect anyone to fall over themselves in an effort to sign up. That sort of thinking basically turns the new woman into a sex toy for the benefit of the existing couple, and most experienced poly people wouldnt touch such an arrangement with a 10-foot pole.

Why cant you each find your own partner? If it turns out that theres a spark between you and his new girlfriend or him and yours, great If not, why not be happy having separate relationships?
 
Thanks Galagirl and everyone else. I do recognize the toxicity in the situation but also know she wants to be there for him through what has beem trying times. She does love him, I'm more guarded with my affection and do know that she loves very freely and being on the recieving end is great but watching it is not so great.

She's human and will mess up, I do recognize this. My reactionary behaviour has been awful at times and veey trying for her. She has mentioned on more than one occasion that while I dont have to move out, she needs some space from both of us to process. I've nevee had a hard time fiving space before but given the rampant emotiinality of the situation I think I'm being too much. Lot's of texts, phone calls, meeting her for breaks and then whatever at home. I'd like to stop this behaviour but often our discussions lend me perspective amd center me amd for the most part, tbis situation is driving me crazy.

I like to think when I talk to friends (3 people) they would tell me I'm out of line or wrong about some aspects... occasionally they do. But big picture? They all agree with assessments here. Is it weird I want to be told I'm wrong? I just feel like given her emotionality towards him, she's trying to push a relationship model on someone who just doesnt fit. Either way, I need to five her her space and quit tryin tp put out every fire. As it stands now, they've drawn a clear boundary and he is respecting it on a personal level. The no contact part... not so much. She's still very much experiencing NRE and has even told me herself that she's not had the opportunity to take off the rose coloured glasses. So what do I do from here? Quit fighting and let her figure it out, I think. It's tough when all of a sudden this new force has caused so much disruption amd I get blamed for all of it.

I do have culpability amd I do have fault in this. She's said, had it not been for the meds causing me to drive them together, they wouldnt be where they are....
 
Sounds like after taking soundings with your IRL friends and here on the board they all agree that things are weird here.

Is it weird I want to be told I'm wrong?

No, not weird at all. It's part of the grief process to NOT want to believe things are happening to you. Especially tough things.

I just feel like given her emotionality towards him, she's trying to push a relationship model on someone who just doesnt fit.

You do not feel it. You OBSERVE it.

And yup. He doesn't want it. And yup, she keeps trying to push it on him. Sounds like she's pushing it on him so she can have both him and you. Without seeing that in the meanwhile, her poor behavior is alienating you/neglecting you/taking you for granted.

(It may sound persnickety, but I suggest you used "observe" for the things you actually are seeing. "Feel" is for emotions you feel. And "think" is for things you think.)

Either way, I need to five her her space and quit tryin tp put out every fire. As it stands now, they've drawn a clear boundary and he is respecting it on a personal level. The no contact part... not so much. She's still very much experiencing NRE and has even told me herself that she's not had the opportunity to take off the rose coloured glasses. So what do I do from here? Quit fighting and let her figure it out, I think. It's tough when all of a sudden this new force has caused so much disruption amd I get blamed for all of it.

Say no. "No. I do not accept blame or responsibility for this behavior" if it is not you doing it.

Do let her be in charge of herself and her behaviors. Stop trying to put out all the fires and give hr space to make her own choices. If she makes poor choices? So be it. We are all free to choose. We are not free from the consequences of our choices. If she keeps behaving like this and alienates you so much that you choose to walk way? Well, it is what it is. That's the consequence of her choice to alienate people. They leave because they get tired of being treated that way.

I do have culpability amd I do have fault in this. She's said, had it not been for the meds causing me to drive them together, they wouldnt be where they are....

That is blame shifting.

Your meds may have caused you having emotional outbursts. And if you blew up at her? Then that may have caused her upset.

But you being on meds doesn't MAKE her do stuff. It did not make her go out to buy a car, make her to go out to get her nails done, right? So it did not make her take up with Dude. She chooses things herself.

Again... you could say "No. I do not accept blame or responsibiltiy for this behavior. Who you date is YOU choosing to date them. Not me." If she chose to run away from her problems with you by throwing herself into a thing with Dude? That is her doing. Not the meds.

Otherwise, now that you are off the meds? Since the meds control whatever she does? She stops dating him right?

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl - in order to your questions.

I also wanted to add that I don't want to leave. I love her so dearly and until now we had beem consummate partners in all sorts of adventures. All I can do is stand back and wait for the train wreck to happen I guess. Easier said than done.


Unfortunately, yes. Most do but when I present the discussion to her, she often says I'm missing nuances and not being arbitrary... I like to think I'm being pretty fair. I know I interject my observations in here and there.

Thats what she wants. Both of us, I need processing time but ultimately, it won't be me to make that call. It's on him.

Very true. We used to spend most of our free time together, and quite happily. All of a sudden it became an issue afyer meeting this guy. Understandably, when you make a connection - friemdship level or more - one would wamt to spend timw with them amd inevitably, that time takes away from us. I'm actually ok with that. If they could keep the boundaries up and clear and simply enjoy a loving friendship. I would take no issue. Sadly, agreements are often violated or nibbled away at. She reminds me often that maybe I'm not cut our for this. While the emotionality of everyone involved is a disaster, I strongly believe I am. It's the disrespectful behaviour that keep clouding my focus.

Being off the meds has changed my perspectives for sure. But no, she's not going to stop seeimg him. In fact, after our vacation I plan to give her carte blanche freedom to do as she chooses. I feel like I set her up to fail by enforcing the agreements she usually comes up with.
 
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This sounds like a mess, a familiar mess though. NRE, falling in love, can be a very powerful thing, especially if one is not used to it. I was in your girlfriend's place a couple of years ago. At times I felt so out of my mind that I was frightened.

The thing is, sure you should stop trying to hold your girlfriend to the agreements the two of you set up, if her constantly breaking them is what gets to you, not the actual things she does to break them. At the same time you have to have your own boundaries well established. What behaviors of hers will make you too unhappy to continue? What aspects of the relationship make it a good relationship? If she does the negative things or stops doing enough of the positives, what will YOU do to protect yourself? Tell her what your parameters are so that she knows what to expect from you as she makes choices. Perhaps you do not break up but you do move out, at least temporarily, to distance yourself from her disregard for your feelings.

You may have been emotionally unbalanced due to meds but she has NRE chemicals wildly sloshing around in her system. She needs to take account of that.

I hope you have found meds that help and are not also dealing with pain from your old injuries on top of all this.

Leetah
 
Apparently from everything written here - despite the mostly unbiased nature of my observations (confirmed). She feels poorly judged and ganged up on. That was never my intention. I just wanted to reach out and garner information from a more experiemced community. Honestly would have preferred everyone tell me that I'm off base...

I need to open up and let go but I feel handicapped in doing so. Weird thing is, throughout our 4 years, I never had a problem doing so previously.
 
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Apparently from everything written here - despite the mostly unbiased nature of my observations (confirmed). She feels poorly judged and ganged up on. That was never my intention. I just wanted to reach out and garner information from a more experiemced community. Honestly would have preferred everyone tell me that I'm off base...

I need to open up and let go but I feel handicapped in doing so. Weird thing is, throughout our 4 years, I never had a problem doing so previously.

It's not easy for most people to look at these situations objectively, and that can lead to feelings that are the result of bias and misinterpretation. I assure you that my previous post was not meant to add to any feeling of being ganged-up on. From what I can see, if anything, your girlfriend has been exploited by a guy who swore before the state and God to abide by a mono lifestyle. So there's ethical issues on his side right away, which have most likely been ignored for his own self-serving reasons than out of true love and respect for your girlfriend ( cornerstones of a true poly relationship ).

That doesn't mean your girlfriend is entirely out of hot water either. Unless she had no idea the guy was married when they became involved she shares a nearly equal portion of the responsibility. I say nearly because at least she isn't the one who broke her commitment to a mono contract. Either she needs to find the strength of will to walk away, or he needs to level the playing field ( get a divorce, kick his mono culture to the curb, and bring everyone ( including you ) together in the spirit of mutual support and cooperation. ) If that doesn't happen I wouldn't blame you for simply moving on and finding someone else who gets what being poly is really about.
 
Hi Smitten015,

I am thinking the most productive thing here, would be if your girlfriend would register on Polyamory.com, and tell her side of the story. Right now we are only giving advice based on your side of the story. Is there any chance she would join? I hope so.

I apologize if I have said anything judgmental towards her and the other guy. Maybe that relationship needs to stay intact. I am just going by what information I am given in this thread here. I hope she'll join.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thats what she wants. Both of us, I need processing time but ultimately, it won't be me to make that call. It's on him.

I will respectfully disagree, She can suggest wanting a V thing with these 3 people. But for it to ACTUALLY happen? It has to be a "3 person yes" like all three people are saying yes to it joyously. You ALL make that call. Not just Dude deciding it for all. At this time it sounds like...

  • GF -- "yes." Not sure what kind.
  • You -- "yes, but...." You don't think he is a match, have misgivings, fears, and other stuff. Not sounding thrilled or joyous about it. But willing to go along with it anyway.
  • Dude -- No.
.

That is not a "3 person joyous yes" to me.

Sadly, agreements are often violated or nibbled away at. She reminds me often that maybe I'm not cut our for this.

Sounds like more blame shifting behavior to me. When she suggests protocols or agreements of her own volition and then violates them or nibbles away at them... How does this demonstrate she she is cut out for ethical polyamory? :confused:

Alternately, if she thinks you are not cut out for this? Why not cut you loose then? And stop trying to push this on you?

While the emotionality of everyone involved is a disaster, I strongly believe I am. It's the disrespectful behavior that keep clouding my focus.

If you think you ARE cut out for ethical polyamory, and what you are being offered is NOT ethical polyamory where agreements are kept?

And the disrespectful behavior makes it difficult to feel happy in this situation? You can ask her to stop doing this behavior. Why are you willing to go along with it anyway?

I get that you do not want to leave. But I do not see how signing up to participate in something you aren't crazy about or have doubts on is a good or healthy decision for you.


She feels poorly judged and ganged up on.

I'm sorry she feels judged or ganged up. I think people are evaluating not her worth as a person but her BEHAVIOR choices.

If this many people (of your friends IRL, and online strangers) are all essentially saying "This behavior doesn't sound so great".... how many people/times does it take to go "Hrm. Maybe I need to think about my behavior here. Maybe I need to change my behavior?"

Sometimes people get carried away in NRE and make mistakes. The thing to do is get back on a healthier path, apologize to those who've been hurt by the behavior. Slow things down. Not rush in. Stop dinging the other people around.

It's not fun to hear feedback like that if what you really want to do is jump in feet first.

But that doesn't mean people are judging the person's value. It means they think the behavior/situation is just too much or too fast or out of balance or not healthy.

She may or may not disagree with that opinion. Ultimately she chooses how to behave -- keep going as she is or make some modifications to her behavior.

And ultimately you decide if that's enough for you to sign up for the New Deal or if that is still too wonky for you and you decline the offer on the table. You do NOT sign up for the New Deal.

Each person responsible for their own choices. Each person carries their own baggage.

Galagirl
 
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Dear Smitten,

Look, I am not saying that your GF is a bad person or even that it is all her fault. I know what it is to love someone who is not good to you, and how tempting it can be to think that if you do one thing differently, then maybe all the bad stuff will end and it will be all good. Mine tried to basically grind away all my sense of self until I would mindlessly agree with her, hers is trying to steal her away from you for his own selfish reasons.

Yeah, it is kinda shitty for your girl to do that, but you are both prone to it. What she needs to do is drop this guy, no matter how hard it is. While I cannot ever truly get rid of my sister (despite her repeated emotional abuse), I minimize her time with me.

What I am saying is that you are both in a bad place that is making you both unhappy. I know it is hard to find someone, extra when your poly, but as much as she might not want to hear it, it has to be said.

GF, if you are reading this then you have to know that deep down this is not right for you. I am not lying to myself here and trying to say that relationships are ever easy and that breaking up with this guy will be a piece of cake. But poly is about everyone being happy with the relationship. If he just disliked the guy, that would be one thing. You could sit down and deal with that. But this guy seems to be attempting to actively destroy your relationship with each other. I am not ganging up on you, I am ganging up on him.

You need to find lovers that can at least tolerate each other. Not another abuser.

I hope this helps, both of you.

~PoorSystem
 
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