Re (from
dingedheart):
"And by the way some of my good points seem to be edited out ... what's up with that."
I don't know. What points did you have in mind? Restate them and I'll try to give them a fair shake.
You do realize that we're talking about a five-post post here, right? Surely you didn't expect me to retain
*every* one of your points. Often I let a point go because I actually agree with it so it doesn't seem to need a lot of attention. But if you feel shortchanged, I'll try to rectify that.
It does concern me that if the discussion becomes too cumbersome, it will discourage people from reading (and participating in) this thread. Since I think the subject matter is of epic importance, I hope that won't happen. So again, let's try to stick to the key, on-topic points. Minor tangents here and there are fine as long as they don't make other readers roll their eyes and move on to an easier thread. Kind of political of me to look at that way I know.
Re: the contest to see who can overwhelm whom with the longest multi-posts ... is one I actually expect to lose. I am trying to give your concerns a fair shake but I have to say, it's getting harder and harder for me to scrounge up the time, and I know others have a lot more on their plate than I do. Let's not have that contest here okay? Let's keep this thread attractive and doable for newcomers (and oldcomers alike). Just my request. Do it for the kids man.
@ FullofLove1052 ... in my view you did gain a few significant things from your 12 years of poly. I think you ended up with a new and enhanced appreciation for your marriage, as well as a new and enhanced appreciation for the time you get to spend with your kids. I even think it's a cool thing that you learned that monogamy's not so bad after all. I always hate it when poly zealots preach that we're
*all* supposed to be poly/non-monogamous. Come on guys, people aren't a bunch of clones.
@ MightyMax ... good perspective; poly must always be understood to impose certain difficulties on the kids ... perhaps most of all in areas where it's, "Keep it a secret, or expose the kids to the persecution of their classmates." Not that it's impossible to compensate for that, but it is a factor that has to be considered.
Having said that, I like what
Dagferi said about it ...
@ MusicalRose ... thanks for your remarks on Dr. Ruskin, always feels nice to have someone in my corner (and you've good independent reason to be there in my opinion).
A word or two more about doctors and therapists, and trusting their credentials. I have a little personal experience with that.
Last year I had a dental appointment in Albuquerque (several months before my move to Washington State). My regular dentist wasn't available that day, so the "new guy" checked out my teeth. He found, like, seven cavities. And he was adamant about that.
Now, I can't remember when (if there ever was a time) I ever had more than one or two cavities at an appointment. About half the time I have zero. So seven? Really? and this is after I'd been doing better about brushing (and flossing) for the previous year.
Well jeezh, who says I have any business questioning this guy? He has massive college degrees; I am a lowly undergrad. He has a good-looking, friendly, comfortable, thriving business. Obviously he knows what he's doing. Doesn't he?
Well fixing cavities isn't free and my V's not exactly made out of money. Not to mention the time and trouble (that damned needle!) to go to multiple filling sessions. I just couldn't bring myself to trust this guy.
So we waited. After our move to Olympia was completed, we sought out a new local dentist (and found one). It had been several months so heck, if I had seven cavities before I must have ten by now! With much trepidation I entered the new dentist's office.
So what did
*this* qualified professional find in my mouth? I'll tell you. One cavity. One. And not even one of the garden variety cavities the other guy had found. This was an unusual internal type of cavity; I think the word they used for it was recidivism. It's when your adult tooth starts acting like a baby tooth and starts preparing itself to loosen and fall out. To correct the problem, I had to see a specialist who did a root canal, then a gum incision to lift away a bit of gum and drill/fill the external damage under the gum, then he replaced the flap of gum and secured it with a few stitches. I see him again tomorrow to make sure I've healed up okay.
Well, I don't know which highly-qualified expert (dentist) was wrong, but either one of them was wrong, or both of them were wrong. So yeah, I have learned to have some mistrust of experts with way more knowledge and practice than me.
Heck, my mom even concluded (in later years) that she had picked a "bad dentist" for her kids. He certainly didn't do a good job at straightening my crooked teeth, and he wasn't a guy I'd say had "the soft touch." So again, just because someone's a highly-trained professional doesn't mean you should automatically trust them to have the right answers.
As for psychologists and their ilk, I've had some real "winners" in my day. Completely off-base diagnoses and harmful treatment. In the early days of my poly V, Snowbunny and I went to see a therapist for help with our dyad relationship with each other. Well that therapist, after refusing to see her and me in concert, proceeded to (try to) play us against each other, leading us down the path toward a break-up. And this was when we were already down and struggling. We were lucky we figured out what she was doing before too much damage was done. Obviously she did not have an objective viewpoint of polyamory -- in spite of her fancy degrees and (how many?) years of experience.
I even had a hellish experience with the nurse who was in charge of the Alzheimer's unit my wife was once staying in. This nurse made a BFD out of how many years (20 might have been the actual figure) she'd been in charge at that institution. But she wasn't a warm, fuzzy, or even helpful type, and she ended up clashing horns with me and greatly limiting (almost eliminating altogether) the visits I was allowed to have there with my wife. Bzzzt! Another ding against a highly-qualified professional.
No, I can't just take Dr. Ruskin at her word, no matter how many accolades and decades of experience she has. I need specific evidence (anecdotal at the very least -- preferably verifiable anecdotes) of the claims she's making, especially when other psychologists/psychiatrists disagree with her general view and when we have seen right here on this thread that poly parents can indeed successfully raise their offspring. No expert is above being human. All experts are capable of accumulating a subjective view about things. It's been demonstrated multiple times in my life at least.
---
Re:
http://www.nomblog.com/39494/ ... a worthy exception to the "good news about kids and poly" -- though Jennifer Johnson's plight was built not from polyamory but from a tangle of divorce and remarriage.
The one quote that really troubled me in the article was:
"Since I lived under the [five-parent] family structure they advocate, I will sometimes ask [activists]: 'Would you trade childhoods with me?' They either say no or they don’t reply."
Who are these advocates anyway? and why aren't they putting their money where their mouth is? I can't think of any particular reason why I'd have minded having five parents -- unless one or more of them were jerks. Heck, active Mormon families are so tightly woven that one's aunts and uncles might as well be one's additional mothers and fathers. The church part of that dynamic wasn't so hot, but the family part was rather enjoyable.