Cheating within Triad - need advice please!

Viridis

New member
I am a single female in a triad (I think that is the best way to describe it) with T & W who are married. I met them through swinging and now it has turned into more of a triad, people have come and gone but at the end of the day, we are basically a triad. I do not live with them. In their marriage, they had rules established when it came to swinging and when they started exploring polyamory. They had some glitches in the beginning, they will both tell you they made mistakes but they talked through everything and life seemed to be good. I was really liking where the relationship was going.

Then the you know what hit the fan. W found out that his wife T had been having sex with a guy that was off limits. He was off limits because according to W, he didn't respect their marriage - the rules that they had in place. She never approached W to discuss her continued interest in this guy because she said she knew W would still say no.

In W's mind it's as simple as black and white - she cheated, she broke the rules after everything they had gone through and learned from previous experience. He moved out of the master bedroom, is now in the guestroom. He has threatened divorce or threatened telling her to leave but hasn't acted on it. He keeps saying he needs time and space to see how he feels about it all. He is being cordial and living like they are roomates.

She admits she messed up by lying to him and just wants him to accept that, forgive her and move on. She is not happy with him only being cordial. She admits she lied but keeps wanting to talk to him about what they have is an open marriage and he doesn't have to like who she sleeps with. Or she wants to go back to a time when they first started swinging - that was something they did together and she feels like the problems started when they started delving into polyamory which took them away from each other.

I'm so in the middle obviously. I cheating in my marriage many many years ago so when T talks to me about how she was feeling and shares with me things that were going on in her marriage, and why she chose the off limits guy, I understand where she is coming from - we both made bad choices. W is an awesome man - obviously or I wouldn't be in this relationship but he has some very strong beliefs/ethics or whatever you want to call it and feels that rules in relationships are so important to protect all involved and to not have your heart ripped out. He himself would NEVER stray from these rules. He is an awesome communicator so I understand where he is coming from as well - with all they went through, I don't understand why T did what she did. I'm honestly not sure they are going to be able to fix this. W just gets tough and says that she is lucky he doesn't kick her out and that she of all people should know him well enough to know that blatantly lying to his face (he had suspicions and asked her about a month before she left yahoo chat up on the computer and he saw the conversations and she told him that there was nothing going on) would cause him to want to be done with the marriage.

Anyway, I could go on and on. My dilemma is that T and I have developed a pretty close friendship and she still wants me to come to the house on the weekends. She says that he is more talkative and cordial to her when I'm there. She hopes that me still coming over on the weekends will soften his heart. I have shared with her that I am worried I'm not the best friend for her especially if this doesn't work out between the two of them. She insists that she wants me around - I honestly do want them to work it out if it can be saved - I liked where it was going. I tell her that sometimes I think I should tell W that I'm going to take a step back so they can work on things but she keeps telling me she knows if I do that, he will blame her for me "leaving" him. She trusts me and knows that I have their best interests at heart - which I do but wow am I in the middle.

In the meantime, my and W's relationship is growing stronger and I'm head over heels for him. It's scary though because T is fighting to save things and he just isn't ready for anything from her yet ( if ever) he doesn't know that yet. We have definitely had a role reversal - When I first started dating them, it was clear T was #1 - I respected that 100% and was very comfortable in my role. Now, I'm #1 and T is where I was it seems - he basically insinuated this when he told me that she has to prove to him/us that she would be a good fit for us.

AAAHHHH all I know is that when I get home Sunday nights from being over there for the weekend, I am absolutely exhausted! I want to do right by both of them but am so wrapped up in it, I'm not sure what to do. I'm hoping putting this out there, I'll get some suggestions/understanding/advice - anything that might help me! Thanks!
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I think you could keep this super simple on yourself.

  • They had an agreement the guy was off limits.
  • Rather than negotiate it, she chose to cheat and broke agreements.
  • Now W is living in the guest room and has been clear about needing some time and space to sort out his thoughts and feelings.
  • He is being a cordial roommate.

These are the natural consequences of her choice. You could leave her to deal with her natural consequences and keep your boundaries. Not get sucked into drama.

My dilemma is that T and I have developed a pretty close friendship and she still wants me to come to the house on the weekends. She says that he is more talkative and cordial to her when I'm there. She hopes that me still coming over on the weekends will soften his heart.

She has asked you to come over to use you like a shield/heart softening tool. You are not willing to be that. So tell her "No, thank you. I am not willing to come to the house right now. I hope you guys work it out but I don't want to get in the middle like that. I am willing to meet you for coffee elsewhere. (<--- If you are actually willing for that. Otherwise leave that bit out.) "

I tell her that sometimes I think I should tell W that I'm going to take a step back so they can work on things

Then do so.

but she keeps telling me she knows if I do that, he will blame her for me "leaving" him.

She seems to do that "fortune telling/predict doom" thing with W rather than actually TALKING to W. You could stop telling her things about (you and W) right now. Consult someone OUTSIDE the system for advice on that. Not her. She cannot see through her filter right now. She's not a good person to consult about what YOU might need at this time to be healthy. Consult yourself, consult someone outside the system.

I want to do right by both of them but am so wrapped up in it, I'm not sure what to do.

My 2 cents? I think you could base your actions in good character. Do you think it is keeping in good character to give them both some time/space to work out this problem? You sound like you do. So go ahead and do it.

  • It gets you out of the middle.
  • It gives them both time and space to sort.

I think that's a good thing for all.

In addition...

  • You have to adjust how to interact with W during this time.
  • You have to adjust how to interact with T during this time.

That part is inevitable given the situation.

  • You could tell them each clearly that you hope they work it out, but that you aren't going to be sucked into the middle.
  • You could tell them you plan to give them time and space. You plan to visit/date them each separately/not at their house. (It sounds awkward over there right now. You may prefer visiting with them at your house. Or pause dating entirely. Whatever you need right now.)
  • If they both get too TMI, or dumping on you? You could say "No, thank you. That is TMI/too much." and refer them to a counselor to tell instead of you. It is not your job.
  • Could assert your personal boundaries and enforce them.

I don't think those are horrible to do. It promotes your well being through this time. It promotes them sorting it out one way or another. Which is better for them than being in limbo. Or doing passive aggressive snipe from the side at you about the other one. Rather than focusing on the job at hand and talking directly to the person in question.

You are quite clear about not wanting to be put in the middle being emotionally drained/exhausted. Nip that kind of thing in the bud.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks GalaGirl

I'm so glad you responded, I've read some of your other posts and we seem to think a lot alike.

I actually told them both this a few weeks ago. I told W that I felt it was better that I didn't go to their house for awhile. I told T that I didn't think it was a good idea for either of us to try to keep building our friendship right now.

Here is where I caved and got all wishy-washy. They have only been in their new house for about 3 months - the doo doo hit the fan the 2nd week after they moved in.

I helped them choose this house - even though it wasn't ever actually verbally expressed out loud - they bought a 3 bedroom with the hope/intention that I would eventually move in. W told me he understood that I felt uncomfortable going to their house so he would just come to my house. He also said that if T could respect his boundaries/rules for living as "roommates" - and if that is what it stayed as for the rest of their lives he didn't understand how our relationship could stay strong/progress if I never intended on going to his house again. I told him that that wasn't my intention, that I just felt space was needed. He told T this and she started reaching out to me telling me she would hate for that to happen for me to feel uncomfortable coming over. She and I were still hanging things on the walls and decorating. I didn't go over there for one weekend but the next weekend I was right back over there because of a previous thing the 3 of us were supposed to go to together.

T and I had lots of time to talk this past weekend, we spent more time together this past weekend then we probably have since I reconnected with them 8 months ago. We shared and talked about a lot of things - of course all this with W and the cheating, but also just sharing and communicating talking about being women in the lifestyle (swinging) and just marriage/relationships in general. I shared a lot about what I went through in my marriage etc... She is always sad, a little depressed, but generally okay based on the circumstances and seems to take comfort in knowing that I'm not in W's ear telling him he should divorce her so I can have him all to myself. She tells me she appreciates that I can just let her vent and get things off her chest.

When I'm not there (like today for example) she's texting me all day long sounding completely NOT together. Saying she can't do this anymore, he's mentally abusing her by ignoring her on purpose, she's having a mental breakdown, she thinks she'll have to leave her job etc.. etc.. etc...

Of course if I find a way to tell him a little about what she is saying, how she feels he completely ignores her, he tells me his side and I do tend to believe him.

As I type this I think I've figured something out - I'm worried that she will get really bad and possibly do something crazy. Hmmm, I need to be smart and quit trying to be "the marriage counselor" or think I can fix it all. W and I had a chance to talk as well for quite awhile on Sunday and he reminded me again that this is his situation to figure out, not mine.

Thanks again, this has helped this morning!
 
Glad it helped some.

You seem to recognize that having wishy washy boundaries at this time is not healthy for you. I am glad you see that you need to step out of this. Stop being "the counselor."

What do you need to better weather this out?

I shared a lot about what I went through in my marriage etc

If YOU still need to process some things yourself, pick a better person to process with than T. Seek your own counselor.

When I'm not there (like today for example) she's texting me all day long sounding completely NOT together. Saying she can't do this anymore, he's mentally abusing her by ignoring her on purpose, she's having a mental breakdown, she thinks she'll have to leave her job etc.. etc.. etc...

Opportunity for you to exercise strong personal boundaries.
  • Tell her to call and set up a counseling appointment for herself so she gets more support. (Appropriate support. You are not the guy.)
  • Do not encourage her to turn you into her life raft.
  • Tell her to text you after she's done that. And then get off the phone to free her up to do it.

Are we talking suicide risk here? Since they are married and he's next of kin? Tell him she's blowing up your phone with texts all day long, and you are very concerned she will do something crazy. Raise the flag so he gets on the ball with his job -- as husband he would be the one to get her counseling/a check up if she's unable to set that up herself.

I need to be smart and quit trying to be "the marriage counselor" or think I can fix it all. W and I had a chance to talk as well for quite awhile on Sunday and he reminded me again that this is his situation to figure out, not mine.

Good for you! I am glad you see that it is NOT your job. Respect your own need to be healthy and not sucked dry.

And good for him for setting that boundary with you! Respect his boundary. Let him sort his stuff out with her. Stop being "counselor" -- point her toward actual counselor instead (a professional) and encourage her to sort stuff out with him directly. Step out of it.

Maintain your own boundaries with T.

I get that she's suffering and struggling right now. I am not unsympathetic. But dumping on you/oversharing is not taking personal responsibility or taking appropriate solutions to her problems to improve her situation in the long term. Not cleaning up her own mess.

It's short term "pass the buck" on to you so she can feel better in the moment unloading. And when it fizzles, she'll come back around for another round. You are being emotionally drained that way and her problems are still not solved.

Say NO.

Galagirl
 
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Gah, what a mess. Sounds like this couple is making a difficult transition from swinging to polyamory.

I don't know what "rules" the couple set, that the woman agreed to verbally but not in actuality. Many poly noobs set many unrealistic rules to "protect" their relationship, which doesn't actually work. We see that here all the time.

And now you've become a middleman between the battling couple. I wish they'd post here, they'd get an earful about how they are behaving and communicating! Beside setting unrealistic unworkable rules leading to cheating, the male is being distant and "cordial," threatening to kick wife out, wife "awfulizing" things, giving you the idea she might do something crazy...

If I were you, I'd step back. Triad relationships are the hardest kind of poly relationship to manage. One in which 2 of the partners are at each others' throats? Tell them you're going to take a break until therapy is well underway and they are calmed down around the cheating. I know that will be hard, since you had an idea you were going to be moving in, but it sends a good message to them. Do you even want to live with them any time soon, if they can barely stand to be in the same house with each other?

I know it must feel very disappointing, to say the least. :( Good luck.

If you want to tell us what their rules are, feel free.
 
There is no need for you to be in the middle of this marital spat. You didn't make the rules, you didn't break the rules, and you need not serve as a mediator, or be given to the husband as a gift to try to sweeten him, or used as a support system for the wife.

Tell them both you care about them deeply, but they need some time to sort themselves out, then take some time away from them both. Otherwise, you risk being seen as an "option" or an "out" for a husband pissed off at his wife, or as a negotiation tool for a wife trying to save her marriage.
 
Thanks Everyone

Thanks again GalaGirl, thanks for the response Magdlyn and LoveBunny.

Wow, I also realized my own insecurities - They have been my whole life for the past 8 months or so, I have very little other friends - I'll be so bored if I take a step back, and lonely.

Ugh...
 
Wow, I also realized my own insecurities - They have been my whole life for the past 8 months or so, I have very little other friends - I'll be so bored if I take a step back, and lonely.

Ugh...
Time to go forth and make new friends! Look for activities in your locale where you can meet people and put yourself out there!

Have you let yourself limit your life and been so totally focused on only this couple because it seemed that's what they wanted and encouraged? Not good. Couples often do that to their "third" so that it seems hard for her to create any kind of life without them, and they can delude themselves into believing they are in control.

You are in control of how you live your life. You deserve to have friends and a rich, full life without this couple being your focus, in addition to any of your intimate relationships. So be brave now - step back from them and their drama, and into your next adventure! You owe it to yourself. There are people out there who would love to meet you and get to know you.
 
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nycindie and HappilyFallenAngel, Thanks for your response - you both are right, I think everyone else that responded to my post basically said the same thing. I knew deep down it needed to be done but I know I'm going to struggle with it.

I got the courage this afternoon to tell W that even though I tried to step back a few weeks ago and then jumped back in thinking I could help them, that I've decided I need to take a step back again.

Just like he said before, he understands and he will just come to me. We will have to figure some things out like Sunday night trivia - I usually just stay the night but maybe that will need to be done differently. T is normally asleep by the time we would get back from Trivia anyway and then I leave when he leaves for work the next morning at 5am before she is ever up. But I could just not drink as much and just drive home (45 min) on sunday nights. We usually kayak 2 weekends a month so we'll have to figure that one out because all the ....... well anyway, we will have to just tweak the way we do things.

Now I have to figure out how to tell T or what to tell her...

Thanks All!!
 
I'm confused. You said you told W you are going to step back again, but you are still going to see him? Just at different times?

I would think stepping back means not seeing either of them for a while, to give them space and time to deal with their issues and marriage. Meantime, you seek out others to hang with, do fun things with, and maybe even go on dates with.
 
What? You mean you are going to step back from seeing T (the female) but keep seeing W, the male, who is treating her like a pariah?

You said earlier you want the right to one on one dates, but now you say you normally go to trivia with W once a week, while T goes to bed alone and sleeps while you come home and sleep (have sex with too?) her husband?

And what is this kayaking twice a month? A threeway date, or just you and W? Does T now get to sit home, while you cowgirl the hell out of her husband, and he gives her the "roommates" treatment, and now she is secondary and the new girl (you) are the homewrecker cowgirl?

This is all highly unethical.
 
What? You mean you are going to step back from seeing T (the female) but keep seeing W, the male, who is treating her like a pariah?

You said earlier you want the right to one on one dates, but now you say you normally go to trivia with W once a week, while T goes to bed alone and sleeps while you come home and sleep (have sex with too?) her husband?

And what is this kayaking twice a month? A threeway date, or just you and W? Does T now get to sit home, while you cowgirl the hell out of her husband, and he gives her the "roommates" treatment, and now she is secondary and the new girl (you) are the homewrecker cowgirl?

This is all highly unethical.

How? Cowgirl? I thought most people on here agree that an existing relationship should not end just because a partner and metamore are having issues. If this is a true triad she has the right to see either one of them or both. If she chooses to step back from one or the other that is also up to her and each of them.
 
I know but gosh, what is going to happen to the wife? Don't she and the husband need to put time and energy into sorting out their issues around the cheating, the possible unrealistic rules that caused the cheating, etc.? Is the h using the OP as a bandaid, to be in lala NRE land with, while the unfulfilled wife is virtually in time out?

Now the wife is suddenly the secondary and new gf has been promoted to primary status. I, personally, if I was the gf, would feel mighty icky having a fun old time with husband while the wife is sitting home feeling invisible, the possibility of divorce looming over her.

If Viridis didn't know T, or wasn't involved with her romantically/sexually, it might be different. But she cares about her!

But I think triads are super hard and often yucky, so what do I know?
 
Seems like you don't really have romantic feelings for the wife, really, much. You're in love with the husband. That's ok. You're allowed to say you don't want to be with both of them in a triad, but be prepared for drama.

I'm guessing the reason hubby freaked out over wife sleeping with guy who "didn't respect their marriage" was because the guy wanted to have his OWN relationship with the wife, and have nothing to do with the couple together. They both seem to come at this from a swinger's mentality of "this is something we do together,"--except when it suits them not to. She "cheated." He is stepping with you instead of dealing with his wife. They do not have their shit together.

You all three need to get honest about what you really want here and what will and won't work. You don't want to be a "cowgirl," I'm guessing, and have hubby leave wife for you. Would you want that on your shoulders?

Also, I'm just curious, does this couple have rules for you?
 
Hi Viridis,

Just a quick question. W is going to see you at your own home; can T go to see you at your own home as well?

I'm just getting up to speed on this thread and have been reading your posts. That's a difficult situation you're dealing with.

I hope I can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Agree with LoveBunny in that there seems to be a bit of a monogamist mentality here with the husband replacing one 'wife' in his heart with a 'new wife', But think hard on it OP, if this is how he deals with a serious issue in his marriage ie emotionally freezing her out, than do you feel he is really mature and enlightened?

Don't let NRE blind you to his faults.

Yes the wife did something wrong and you have the right not to be put in the middle of it, but it seems, like all too often in triadlalaland, fantasy and reality are different things and you are bonding with the husband and the wife is just a friend.

That is fine, she seems to not hold that against you so at least you know she isn't out to 'get' you, like so many have been, nor should your relationship be threatened by ending just because they are having trouble, let them sort their relationship out, but just.....do NOT see them together, stay away from their home and refuse to discuss their marriage with EITHER of them, it really is their issue and putting you in the middle of it is not fair on you.

Normally Madlyn and I agree on much but I totally disagree that you are a 'cowgirl' just because you still want the husband, you are not responsible for his actions and whereas I would not tolerate a lover being so.....infantile in his communication that is my thing. You do you boo!

N
 
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