UPDATE To My "Seeking Some Insight" Thread

PurpleSun

New member
So, I had a long missive in this thread about dating a monogamous woman who I really like, but who is much younger, but who doesn't seem to understand polyamory, is breaching boundaries in a big way, and who I really probably should have broken up with. I had moved too fast, but life complications (story in the thread) made that more difficult that it would otherwise be. However, I definitely can't break up with her now.

She was an assistant in an office in one of the departments at school. Today, the woman who was over the office fired her - via email. The woman had harassed her for months, in a clearly discriminatory fashion. My gf is devastated, and she needed someone to lean on. Of course, the last thing on my mind at the moment is pouring salt in her wounds and making her life more stressful. Like most college students, she is broke and wondering what to do about money (don't worry, I couldn't support her if I wanted to). So, the complications just keep piling up here. Maybe this is some sort of sign? I'm an atheist and usually don't believe in such things, but it's pretty nuts that on the very day I had planned to dump her, something catastrophic happens that makes it damn near impossible for me to do so.
 
Your "gf" clearly established (at least in your own mind) a habit of dealing with adversity in a largely histrionic manner. You came to this site hoping for some insight.

The reactions you fear -- let's not mince words -- from her are bad melodrama at best:
characterised by a plot that appeals to the heightened emotions of the audience. They generally depend on stereotyped character development, interaction, and highly emotional themes. ...plots that often deal with crises of human emotion, failed romance or friendship, strained familial situations, tragedy, illness, neuroses, or emotional and physical hardship.

Victims, couples, virtuous and heroic characters or suffering protagonists (usually heroines) in melodramas are presented with tremendous social pressures, threats, repression, fears, improbable events or difficulties with friends, community, work, lovers, or family. The format allows the character to work through their difficulties or surmount the problems with resolute endurance, sacrificial acts, and steadfast bravery.

You repeatedly make excuses for her & justify her actions (actual & potential) on the basis of her being "young," which comes across as a synonym for "intellectually challenged" or whatever PC term is presently en vogue. Still, while reiterating her severe limitations, you also elevate her to full womanhood status:
a monogamous woman ... who doesn't seem to understand polyamory, is breaching boundaries in a big way, and who I really probably should have broken up with.
Though you describe her displays of egocentric bias, you seem ready to accept all of her claims at face value:
the woman who was over the office fired her - via email. The woman had harassed her for months, in a clearly discriminatory fashion.
Upon what facts do you base these claims? Was this derived from some sort of investigation? Were you a witness? or have you spoken with credible witnesses?

If the relationship your "gf" had with her supervisor was of the quality you have experienced, there'd be little surprise that termination was not only right but necessary.
she needed someone to lean on.
...& as she never had even one friend before you appeared... :rolleyes: Seriously: if she's such a keeper, such a bright center of the Universe, & so highly respected in at least one student organization, where is her support network aside from you?
Maybe this is some sort of sign?
Yes, certainly: that you (presently) enjoy being the Rescuer, the White Knight.

So long as you make that choice consciously & willingly, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Of course, you two will have to avoid various forms of unhealthy enmeshment, such as keeping her needy (& inherently passive-aggressive) to maintain the "weak" role. Setting such pitfalls aside, it's a ready-made D/s relationship, with plenty of room for exciting struggles over control.

If that's what you want, the mode will be "troubled monogamy," by definition. It'd do no good at all to seek input about those struggles, as they are the central point of the relationship. Any advice that might be offered on a poly-centric site such as this will be of very little use as compared to the therapy you two will require (& your remaining here might become a prime bone of contention).
 
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So, I had a long missive in this thread about dating a monogamous woman who I really like, but who is much younger, but who doesn't seem to understand polyamory, is breaching boundaries in a big way, and who I really probably should have broken up with. I had moved too fast, but life complications (story in the thread) made that more difficult that it would otherwise be. However, I definitely can't break up with her now.

She was an assistant in an office in one of the departments at school. Today, the woman who was over the office fired her - via email. The woman had harassed her for months, in a clearly discriminatory fashion. My gf is devastated, and she needed someone to lean on. Of course, the last thing on my mind at the moment is pouring salt in her wounds and making her life more stressful. Like most college students, she is broke and wondering what to do about money (don't worry, I couldn't support her if I wanted to). So, the complications just keep piling up here. Maybe this is some sort of sign? I'm an atheist and usually don't believe in such things, but it's pretty nuts that on the very day I had planned to dump her, something catastrophic happens that makes it damn near impossible for me to do so.

Well that just proves you don't have to believe in God to have moral values ( I'm also non-religious ), and I'm actually glad to hear your response because it shows you truly care for her and are not just using her. This is a real opportunity to demonstrate that you genuinely care while at the same time holding true to your poly principles. Not letting her go might make her realize how much she really matters to you and cause her to rethink her assumptions.

It must be very difficult for you both and I think it's fine for you two to try to figure out a way to stay together, keep a roof over your heads and work together toward a solution. I don't know all the details, so I can't offer specific advice, but I'd say that right now you both have bigger problems than finding new relationships to worry about, so if it were me I'd put all this on the back burner and focus on getting through this crisis together. Maybe it's a bit of a blessing in disguise that will lead to an unexpected but positive conclusion.
 
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I was trying to figure out the connection between what happened with her work and your decision to not break up at this time. I see Ravenscroft already got there. It does seem a bit like White Knighting or at the very least an excuse for conflict avoidance. Either thing is not healthy.

I don't agree that you'll be demonstrating anything to her, assuming she has no idea you are on the verge of breaking up.

If she was harassed she should file a complaint.
 
Okay, so I can see where you are coming from here. I was trying to speak in generalities here, but chances are nobody from there will ever see this. I was talking about the writing center. I literally take every paper I write there before turning it in, to polish it up. It's staffed by graduate tutors getting Master's and PhD degrees in English. Work Study students undergrad work the desk, etc. She was one of them. Before I ever even dated her, I saw her working in there. She is heavy set, and yes the woman who runs the place is a real bitch. She picked on my gf over her clothes. My gf is heavyset, and this woman is skinny as a rail. She's one of those skinny women who only tolerates fat women who hate ourselves and apologize to the world for being fat. So, yes, I saw some of this. Though the woman I am dating has her issues, this is not white knighting. She isn't lying about what happened here. I saw the email. She got fired over a non existent "dress code" - the guys there would wear like, ratty t shirts and jeans and sneakers and shit, and the girls would do the same, or leggings and sweat shirts with the college logo. Only difference? size. Cuz, you know, fat women shouldn't wear leggings and all of that.


@PolyNatural, I want to make clear that yes, I do care for her, was never just using her or just afraid of her, I simply saw the flaws of how we got together, and the lack of a future, and how insane things could get if I just dumped her out of the blue, even though the reasons are very good.
 
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Ok, so... what's the plan? Wait a few weeks till she finds a new job and break up then?
I don't believe in signs.
 
Ok, so... what's the plan? Wait a few weeks till she finds a new job and break up then?
I don't believe in signs.

I plan to talk to my counselor first and kind of gain some more clarity. And I plan to sit her down and talk to her, too, after some of this work stuff blows over. I plan to tell her that my concerns that we've previously discussed have not gone away, and that at some point they must be addressed, but I understand that she must deal with the practical life issues first.

Also, I want to make something clear. There seems to be the impression among at least one member here that I don't like her as a person or something - that's not true. I know that can be an impression in these "advice" type threads when you're discussing a partner's problems/issues in a relationship/negatives/talking about needing to break up. I just wanted to clear that up.
 
I plan to talk to my counselor first and kind of gain some more clarity.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
And I plan to sit her down and talk to her, too, after some of this work stuff blows over. I plan to tell her that my concerns that we've previously discussed have not gone away, and that at some point they must be addressed, but I understand that she must deal with the practical life issues first.
Just be careful with the balance here. I'm sure you know yourself that "there's always something" in practical life that deserves attention more than unwanted tasks ;)
 
Oh, of course I know that, especially now! Hell, we're college students lol. We're thinking about GREs and LSATS and college orgs and FAFSAs and applying for graduation and exams in the new semester and....yeah haha. There's never a "good" time. But this was seriously out of the blue. And, to address the concerns of another poster, yes, this is true, and yes, the woman who runs this office is a real CU Next Tuesday, so that has to be addressed. Different category of "life."
 
Well, I can see not wanting to break up with her on the same day she got fired. You could postpone it for a few days. Don't leave it forever though. If you want out of the relationship and want to break up? Break up.

Be polite about it, but don't drag things on forever. You don't seem happy with it dragging on.

I plan to talk to my counselor first and kind of gain some more clarity. And I plan to sit her down and talk to her, too, after some of this work stuff blows over. I plan to tell her that my concerns that we've previously discussed have not gone away, and that at some point they must be addressed, but I understand that she must deal with the practical life issues first.

Ok. See your therapist, and then break up with her.

You could say that previously discussed issues have not gone away, so you think it is best to part ways. Gave it a chance for a while it and it ends up not compatible. That part is true.

You could say you are sorry so many things are going on for her at the same time. That part is true.

I suggest you do not say "at some point they must be addressed" because that could be taken like "let's work it out together." Togetherness is not what you want.
You want out of the relationship. So end it.

It's unfortunate that she got fired and has to file for harassment at the same time as breaking up... but life happens as it does.

You were worried about her harassing you if you broke up with her. Perhaps dealing with her job situation will keep her too busy to bug you that way?

But however she behaves post break up? That's her side of the job.

Don't skip doing your own side from worry about how she will handle her side. If you are not wanting to be in a relationship with her? Don't be.

Galagirl
 
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Hi PurpleSun,

I can understand why you don't want to break up with the younger woman right now. Can I ask, is this a temporary situation, or will you continue to date her as long as possible? Do you think she will be able to adapt to poly eventually? It sounds like you do care about her, in a number of ways.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hmm. You could alternately read the "sign" as a resolution to one of your problems: your girlfriend no longer works at the organization you need to succeed at school. Therefore, if you break up with her you don't need to worry about her creating awkwardness there anymore.

But, since we tend to interpret "signs" as showing us what we wanted to hear anyway, I'm guessing you don't actually want to break up with her. Which is fine, if you truly want to keep dating her.

But then you need to actually address your mutual incompatibility as the problem it is. Maybe it's a relationship issue that can be worked on between the two of you, with mutual compromises? Or maybe it means your relationship is fun for now but ultimately won't last...which is fine IF your girlfriend understands that.

I can see that you like her and don't want to hurt her. But I'm not sure why that means you should date her indefinitely when you don't feel it's working? She's not your wife of 10 years, or even your girlfriend of 2 years...you've been dating for 2 months.
 
Hmm. You could alternately read the "sign" as a resolution to one of your problems: your girlfriend no longer works at the organization you need to succeed at school. Therefore, if you break up with her you don't need to worry about her creating awkwardness there anymore.
[/QUOTE}

The Writing Center is not the organization. That was just a work study job. The other one is a voluntary, student run club.

But, since we tend to interpret "signs" as showing us what we wanted to hear anyway, I'm guessing you don't actually want to break up with her. Which is fine, if you truly want to keep dating her.

While I care for her, the relationship is not well suited to my needs in a number of ways. I wish it were, but it's not. And she's not evolved enough for me in a number of ways.

But then you need to actually address your mutual incompatibility as the problem it is. Maybe it's a relationship issue that can be worked on between the two of you, with mutual compromises? Or maybe it means your relationship is fun for now but ultimately won't last...which is fine IF your girlfriend understands that.

We're definitely incompatible. Also, I'm an ENTP, and one of our traits is super low empathy. She's hyper sensitive. I'd definitely hurt her. I know we're incompatible. I'm sure she does as well. But, I don't think she has the capacity to really *get* that, if that makes sense.

I can see that you like her and don't want to hurt her. But I'm not sure why that means you should date her indefinitely when you don't feel it's working? She's not your wife of 10 years, or even your girlfriend of 2 years...you've been dating for 2 months.

Yeah, I like her. And I don't get off on hurting people. But I'm not in love or anything. I just don't like kicking people when they are down.
 
How is (politely breaking up with her) the same as (kicking her when she's down)? It's not FUN, but what's unkind about a polite and respectful break up? :confused:

The other choice is to keep on with a person you don't really want to be dating while letting them think everything is ok.

How's that being kind to her or being kind to your own self? :confused:

Galagirl
 
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How is (politely breaking up with her) the same as (kicking her when she's down)? It's not FUN, but what's unkind about a polite and respectful break up? :confused:

The other choice is to keep on with a person you don't really want to be dating while letting them think everything is ok.

How's that being kind to her or being kind to your own self? :confused:

Galagirl

I would say dumping someone when they call you hysterical after getting fired kicking them while they are down, period. That's just me, though. I'm not letting her think everything is okay. When I talked to her today, I told her there was a lot we still had to work through, that I planned to support her through the writing center stuff, but that didn't mean that our own troubles could be ignored. I see my therapist tomorrow. Pretty sure the answer will be in the mix somewhere there.

thanks for the replies, guys, I'm gonna go to bed. Had a long day at school, got another long one tomorrow. :)
 
I plan to talk to my counselor first and kind of gain some more clarity. And I plan to sit her down and talk to her, too, after some of this work stuff blows over. I plan to tell her that my concerns that we've previously discussed have not gone away, and that at some point they must be addressed, but I understand that she must deal with the practical life issues first.

Also, I want to make something clear. There seems to be the impression among at least one member here that I don't like her as a person or something - that's not true. I know that can be an impression in these "advice" type threads when you're discussing a partner's problems/issues in a relationship/negatives/talking about needing to break up. I just wanted to clear that up.

I'm with Tinwen. Sounds like a good plan.

Regarding clarity. I'll reiterate that it has really helped me to remember that breakup mentality over exclusivity is part of mono culture. Therefore right from the start I was willing to help my mono partner figure it out and accept that if she couldn't adapt, then she'll breakup with me. That put the responsibility for staying in the relationship or breaking up over exclusivity squarely on her and allowed me to remain true to everyone including myself.

Some would no doubt question that wisdom because it's a foregone conclusion that there will be problems. My counterpoint to that is that even poly relationships can be challenging, maybe even more challenging sometimes, but for different reasons. So just because it's a challenge doesn't necessarily mean a partner deserves to be discarded.

The thing that caused the latest breakup with me was that someone became interested in me on OKC and we had planned to meet. In true poly disclosure style I was entirely forthcoming about it, and that set her off. Fortunately we don't live together so it wasn't that big a deal. So I'd say that if yours does the same thing just let her go and carry on.

In the meantime, probably the most important practical advice is that it's a bad idea to move in with anyone you're in a relationship with who isn't poly or poly friendly or you could end up in a codependent situation with constant discord where a breakup means losing out materially as well as emotionally.
 
White knighting doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate reason the person needs help and support. It means that you're fostering a certain level of relationship with someone (and often treating the person unethically) merely because they need help and support. Personally, I wouldn't want someone in a partner role to support me through a hard time and then as soon as I show some signs of stability after said crisis, they dump me. Knowing that through every back rub and inspiring word, they were planning when to end it with me would feel devastating. I'd prefer they were honest with me from the outset. That way they could play a genuine source of support as a friend.
 
White knighting doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate reason the person needs help and support. It means that you're fostering a certain level of relationship with someone (and often treating the person unethically) merely because they need help and support. Personally, I wouldn't want someone in a partner role to support me through a hard time and then as soon as I show some signs of stability after said crisis, they dump me. Knowing that through every back rub and inspiring word, they were planning when to end it with me would feel devastating. I'd prefer they were honest with me from the outset. That way they could play a genuine source of support as a friend.

Well said. This is why I said to give the mono person the chance to either adapt or end it of her own accord. In the meantime the poly person can continue with business as usual while remaining true to themselves and their partner. It's a fairly simple solution when you think about it. It will either work out or it won't and both can say they've done their best, which will tend to reduce any negative fallout too.
 
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I wouldn't want someone in a partner role to support me through a hard time and then as soon as I show some signs of stability after said crisis, they dump me. Knowing that through every back rub and inspiring word, they were planning when to end it with me would feel devastating. I'd prefer they were honest with me from the outset. That way they could play a genuine source of support as a friend.
I see your point, but I guess my preferences are different. I'm very invested in my relationships and breakups destabilize me big time, so I do prefer not piling crisis or crisis ... like, not waiting forever, but just a reasonable timeframe. In case of a long established relationship, I might even say "wait until exams are over", in this particular case, I still don't see anything wrong with waiting 2-3 days (for the therapist appointment, and the partner who's been fired to calm down). Not everyone can go right back to being friends.
 
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