Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

Well, I've been tought in my history classes that (the danger of) electing Hitler is not unique to Germany. If you need more evidence, add Brexit and add the presidents of at least two countries neighbouring to Germany.

However I soooo hope that you're exagerating.

Yeah, it's one of the few occasions where I pray that history will end up proving me wrong.

ATM, though? I'm pretty much in an "all bets are off" headspace. :(
 
Berlin 1933, Washington 2016... same shit

Hardly.

As a Jew, I have to take great issue with this and you do an enormous disrespect to the memory of millions (not just Jews) by even beginning to compare the two. Say what you will about Trump's character and even (misguidedly, IMO) about all Trump voters, but the United States of America has not elected a Hitler. He couldn't begin to do what Hitler did, even if he wanted to, which is highly debatable itself. If you think so, you need to learn a lot more about how the government works over here. I'm not a Trump fan, but I am honoring a concept which is the bedrock of American politics: the peaceful transference of power after an election.
 
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Hardly.

As a Jew, I have to take great issue with this and you do an enormous disrespect to the memory of millions (not just Jews) by even beginning to compare the two. Say what you will about Trump's character and even (misguidedly, IMO) about all Trump voters, but the United States of America has not elected a Hitler. He couldn't begin to do what Hitler did, even if he wanted to, which is highly debatable itself. If you think so, you need to learn a lot more about how the government works over here. I'm not a Trump fan, but I am honoring a concept which is the bedrock of American politics: the peaceful transference of power after an election.
Hitler, thankfully, never had nukes and wasn't ever close to getting any. (Ironically, that was in big part due to nuclear physics having been decried as "Jewish nonsense" by what passed for ideologically approved science in the eyes of the Nazis, and driving off scores of talented scientists out of the country in fear of their lives.)

The amount of death and destruction that Trump can cause is in a ballpark that makes the catastrophe of the shoah look like a comparatively minor, localized upheaval.

I wholeheartedly think that "Muslims are the new Jews", the minority that has shifted into becoming "acceptable targets" in the last 80 years, and most especially in the last 15. I've been saying that for longer than Trump even ran; it drove me to tears of panic in the wake of Charlie Hebdo, nearly two years ago. And if you think banning people from entering the US on grounds of their religion is somehow less bad than requiring people of a certain religion to wear a yellow star on their lapel, then I have to point out your personal bias. Take off the Jewish glasses, and put on the human rights ones.


Besides, to be frank... I'm not sure that transference of power will go quite as peaceful as you think. I would not be surprised at all at a 2nd Civil War breaking out in America as a result of this election. I dearly hope I'm wrong, but I see blood and fire on the horizon. (BTW... I think this could easily have happened either way after this election; it's more a question of where the first shots will get fired than anything else.)

There's already talk about a "Calexit", when the results of this election are not even final. The Union has not been this fragile since Lincoln's lifetime.
 
This is what really gets my goat about some of my fellow "progressives." The exact same fear mongering and bigotry and hate that we despise so much about the Other Guys.
 
He couldn't begin to do what Hitler did, even if he wanted to, which is highly debatable itself. If you think so, you need to learn a lot more about how the government works over here.
FallenAngelina,
point taken, I know quite little about the USA system. And it's a good question. What is actually in his might now and what isn't? What opposition is he going to run into if he actually tries to build a wall, restrict the rights of minorities, or (unlikely in my opinion) start a war with Russia?
 
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This is what really gets my goat about some of my fellow "progressives." The exact same fear mongering and bigotry and hate that we despise so much about the Other Guys.
Seriously? Not seeing Trump's islamophobia for what it is (i.e., a leaf 100% straight out of Hitler's book), while getting sanctimoniously huffy on behalf of the victims of the shoah by virtue of being Jewish?

Oh-kay then. I guess I have nothing further to discuss with you, as I'm not interested in that particular game. LLAP
 
What opposition is he going to run into if he actually tries to build a wall

The Washington Post published an article today going into detail on this very subject.

This issue has far more of an impact on the American culture than the Muslim issue. We have 55 million Latinos living here, most for generations and the overwhelming majority are legal. Yet undocumented workers remain an enormous part of our economy. It's a complicated issue, as Latinos are a huge part of the American culture and history, becoming more and more of a presence in this country. Personally, I think that the Republicans would have done a lot better to get behind Marco Rubio as the nominee. He represents the future of the Republican Party (IMO.)
 
getting sanctimoniously huffy on behalf of the victims of the shoah

Trump is not going to round up all Muslims in the US, imprison them purely for their religion, starve them, perform medical experiments on them, and massacre every last one of them in an attempt to wipe them off the face of the earth. Yes, equating any American president with Hitler is enormously offensive and ignorant. When you do, you trivialize and diminish the uniquely profound crime in world history that was the Holocaust.
 
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Trump is not going to round up all Muslims in the US, imprison them purely for their religion, starve them, perform medical experiments on them, and massacre every last one of them in an attempt to wipe them off the face of the earth. Yes, equating any American president with Hitler is enormously offensive and ignorant.
FallenAngelina, with all respect to your ancestors, in Germany 1932 when the nazi party won the elections, nobody knew that Hitler was up to any of these things. It was not widely know until (after?) the war what really happened to the deported people. So I don't think the analogy is as far off.
Trump may not end up killing anyone, so that history indeed makes the comparison ridiculous in the end, but I really think the mechanism of some rather disagreeable person or ideology being elected all the way up is similar.
 
FallenAngelina, with all respect to your ancestors, in Germany 1932 when the nazi party won the elections, nobody knew that Hitler was up to any of these things. It was not widely know until (after?) the war what really happened to the deported people. So I don't think the analogy is as far off.
Trump may not end up killing anyone, so that history indeed makes the comparison ridiculous in the end, but I really think the mechanism of some rather disagreeable person or ideology being elected all the way up is similar.
Can we please also not forget what we've seen in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib... and how that happened when a far less psychologically unstable and openly bigoted president was in the White House than the abomination you guys are faced with now?

(Yeah, shoot me... I that's something I thought I'd never say, but right now, I'd even take a 3rd term of Baby Bush as an alternative, with pleasure and gratitude... compared to Trump, even that guy was a beacon of professionalism. :( )
 
Can we please also not forget what we've seen in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib... and how that happened when a far less psychologically unstable and openly bigoted president was in the White House than the abomination you guys are faced with now?

(Yeah, shoot me... I that's something I thought I'd never say, but right now, I'd even take a 3rd term of Baby Bush as an alternative, with pleasure and gratitude... compared to Trump, even that guy was a beacon of professionalism. :( )

I agree.

The only agree-feeling I had when I saw or heard the phrase, "Make America Great Again" was:

*sigh* You mean when presidential nominees weren't talking about grabbing women by their genitals all over the news, when there was some DIGNITY, even the semblance thereof, in our election process? Could we? Please??

Harambe had more dignity than Donald Trump. And although humans shot him, he almost understandably got some 15,000 write-in votes in our presidential contest.

I don't think we have ever seen any president in America this potentially horrible before.
 
My only hope for now is that the 2020 election will keep Trump under control until then. If he wins a second term, gods only know what he'll do.

I'm not giving up all hope for the United States, though I admit I'm really discouraged. I think the worst thing here is that Congress is still controlled by a Republican majority. What does *that* say about us?

As for Trump, what scares me is considering how that makes us look to other countries. There's clearly something wrong with us. I would have thought that even if Clinton had won. It was way too close of a contest.

I sure don't want to hear any more Republican bellyaching for the next four years. :mad:
 

James Buchanan
is widely considered to be the worst president ever. His disastrous policies fomented the start of the Civil War.
I'm learning history today :)

The Washington Post published an article today going into detail on this very subject.
So it seems building walls is actually easy, the only hard part is tracing immigrants.

As for Trump, what scares me is considering how that makes us look to other countries. There's clearly something wrong with us. I would have thought that even if Clinton had won. It was way too close of a contest.
Actually... I think USA is already the target of all sorts of strong opinions and projections and one president won't change it that much.
 
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Actually... I think USA is already the target of all sorts of strong opinions and projections and one president won't change it that much.
You already have Angela Merkel, classily and diplomatically, congratulating Trump in a way that makes it clear further cooperation between the US and Germany is conditional, depending on his stance on democratic values and human rights:

“Germany and America are linked by values such as democracy, freedom, respect for the rule of law and the dignity of men, regardless of origin, skin colour, religion, gender or sexual orientation. On the basis of these values, I offer US president-elect Donald Trump our close cooperation.”

I can't recall having heard such a very noticeable rebuff in a congratulatory speech to an American president ever before.
 
I AM STUNNED... dumbfounded... Wow.

With you so far.

... today I'm going to make it my business to look for the good that this man's presence will do in the world. I'm not going to start doomsaying or hand wringing and today I am going to listen to what he has to say..

The only hope of him ever saying anything reasonable is if he reads from a teleprompter and never goes off and speaks his mind. But that's not going to happen because he loves the attention he gets when he talks cray word salad. His supporters love it, and that fills his empty narcissistic soul. His dissenters hate it. Doesn't matter, to a narcissist, negative attention is just as good, if not better, than positive. He gets a yummy endorphin hit either way. He puts NEGATIVE Time Magazine covers featuring himself on his office wall in frames!

He doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself. Never did, never will. He finished his speech last night not saying the traditional god bless you and god bless America. He said "I love America." Of course, because it's all about him! And he is wealthy enough and litigious enough to continue on his self serving agenda at the expense of every single person in America, even his deluded supporters.

... To dismiss the Republican Party as a mere bunch of fearful white bigots is to miss what a lot of good people have to say about how this nation should be run. Yesterday they showed us that we have to listen and I, for one, intend to... I want to understand better what the reasons are - and they're not all based on bigotry and misogyny. [

No, it's also based on love of GUNS and VIOLENCE,and "dominionism," ie, polluting our planet, destroying large areas, and saying climate change is a myth made up by China! So, we're OK. Yay! :eek::rolleyes:

Really, Karen, you were so positive Hillary was going to win, that the US wanted a strong smart woman. But your prediction was wrong. Half of America doesn't want a smart person, they didn't want a black man, and they sure as hell don't want an uppity pants wearing WOMAN as Commander in Chief.

And now you're wrong again. IMHO. You're calm and think progressives have to be open minded and "listen to the good Republicans."

Honey, it's good to be open minded, but not so open minded your brains fall out.
Everyone complains how Congress can't get anything done because of the partisan bickering. Well, this is how work begins: by listening to each other and by seeing individuals as much more than caricatures. Bi-partisanship begins right here, with me.

Bi-partisanship my left tit. We now have a Republican executive/president, a Republican Congress and soon will have a conservative majority in the Supreme Court. Your progressive values are meaningless, and your rights as a woman, and perhaps even as a Jew, seeing as how white supremacists are celebrating today, will soon be in the toilet.

But when I went to bed at 4am last night, my last thoughts and caring went to all USA Muslims. Could it be you have no sympathy for Muslims because of your religion?

What do you mean, works out for me? The stance I'm taking is simply one of being open minded, as we liberals all pride ourselves on being. I don't advocate anything other than listening sincerely to what people with a very different point of view have to say.

hahaha

I don't know how you can live on in a country where you know that literally half of your compatriots are Trump voters.

Frankly, I've never been happier not to be American. But that doesn't stop me from still being scared shitless even with the Atlantic Ocean between me and a giant, nuke-wielding country filled with hordes of completely insane, deplorable, hate-driven people...

The only "good" thing? Germans will probably not have to hear the question "how could you have let this happen?" much anymore. As of today, you've proven that the rise of Hitler was in no way a specifically German phenomenon, so I guess we can put our national guilt complex to rest after 70 years. Berlin 1933, Washington 2016... same shit, marginally different assholes... and you elected your narcissitic fascist with more support than Old Adolf ever scraped up in the elections he ran in over here.

I agree. Sinclair Lewis, noted American author, wrote a cynical book in 1936 called It Can't Happen Here. Guess what? It just did.

As a Jew, I have to take great issue with this and you do an enormous disrespect to the memory of millions (not just Jews) by even beginning to compare the two... America has not elected a Hitler. He couldn't begin to do what Hitler did...

Hitler, thankfully, never had nukes and wasn't ever close to getting any. (Ironically, that was in big part due to nuclear physics having been decried as "Jewish nonsense" by what passed for ideologically approved science in the eyes of the Nazis, and driving off scores of talented scientists out of the country in fear of their lives.)

The amount of death and destruction that Trump can cause is in a ballpark that makes the catastrophe of the shoah look like a comparatively minor, localized upheaval.

I wholeheartedly think that "Muslims are the new Jews", the minority that has shifted into becoming "acceptable targets"... And if you think banning people from entering the US on grounds of their religion is somehow less bad than requiring people of a certain religion to wear a yellow star on their lapel, then I have to point out your personal bias. Take off the Jewish glasses, and put on the human rights ones.


... I'm not sure that transference of power will go quite as peaceful as you think. I would not be surprised at all at a 2nd Civil War breaking out in America as a result of this election...

... The Union has not been this fragile since Lincoln's lifetime.

Perfect rebuttal. And many US historians agree we have not been this fucked since 1860. I've been listening to that meme for weeks on NPR.

This is what really gets my goat about some of my fellow "progressives." The exact same fear mongering and bigotry and hate that we despise so much about the Other Guys.

You don't think women, blacks, Latinos, Muslims, Asians, people with disabilities, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, queers and transfolk have anything to FEAR? Incredible rose colored glasses you have on there, where can I get some?

Trump is not going to round up all Muslims in the US, imprison them purely for their religion, starve them, perform medical experiments on them, and massacre... them...

Can we please also not forget what we've seen in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib... and how that happened when a far less psychologically unstable and openly bigoted president was in the White House than the abomination you guys are faced with now?

Right. Trump has an atomic bomb in his pocket.
 
And now, a heartwarming personal story from the USA--

Yesterday my partner Pixi was chatting with an old friend, a woman. She told Pixi that when she was a child, her father was invited to two Trump financial events.

The first was when she was 3. Her father brought her to the event. Trump personally castigated her father for bringing "a brat."

The second time, she was 11, and Trump told her father that "she would be a real looker if you could get her out of her baggy jeans."

So, let me add children to the list of people who have every right to fear Trump.

Just ask those Miss Teen America contestants who had to submit to Trump strolling through their dressing rooms as they changed clothes.

We are so fucked.
 
Exhibit A:

Google (or use whate'r search engine you prefer) the words ...

  • "cross check"
  • ohio
  • palast

Have fun!

Best damn 'democracy' money can buy.
 
Exhibit A:

Google (or use whate'r search engine you prefer) the words ...

  • "cross check"
  • ohio
  • palast

Have fun!

Best damn 'democracy' money can buy.

To hone in closer, add "democracy now!" for some good video stuff.

Palast is what's left of "investigative journalism" in "America".
 
Yes, as Fallen A. has just pointed out, there are massive protests in NYC and elsewhere. Is this a surprise? I would hardly think so.
 
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