Seek Help Approaching Relationship With Couple

soulseeker

New member
My situation:

A married friend invited sex a year ago. He has been married for 16 years. We have been friends for as long, less 1-2 months. There has always been mental, emotional, and spiritual (philosophical) intimacy between us. We share many passions and interests and have shared many joint activities and enterprises over the years. We explored some sexual intimacy last year, but sex itself was tabled at that time. Emotional intimacy deepened over the coming months. At same time, I began to develop emotional intimacy with his wife and a fondness for their two children. She (to my knowledge) is not aware of the closeness between her husband and me. I realized at some point, I was emotionally attracted to her as well as to my friend, her husband.

Past conversations with my friend have revealed that we share an openness to polygamy and polyamory. He claims he and his wife considered such a relationship with a third partner many years ago, but now that they have children, have concerns that such an arrangement would be confusing to the children.

The three of us have shared meals occasionally together over the years, confided secrets, and supported one another during challenging times. There has also been a vacancy in the marriage since the children arrived. The couple sleeps in separate rooms. My understanding is that emotional and sexual intimacy has been absent for years, and the arrangement has become more one of friendship and economics. They have tried marriage counseling without restoration of intimacy. My friend has told me that I am thought of by them “as family”. I provide both with the emotional intimacy they no longer have together and am willing to extend physical intimacy also, if invited, as well as support, shared resources, services, etc.

I feel a sincere love for my friend and his wife and would like to approach them about a polyamorous relationship. Ultimately, I would like to be in a marriage with them, I think. My friend seems to defer to his wife’s decision making, so it is she I feel I must approach. At this time, however, I am not as close to her as I am to my friend. I would like to get closer to her.

Any suggestions as to how to approach the idea of a triad with her?

Thanks kindly.
 
I'd steer clear.

"We don't want to confuse the children" sounds like a decision on the subject has already been made, and starting from an active "no" rather than a passive "well, we've never thought of that" is a bad way to start a poly relationship.

Emotional and sexual intimacy has been missing from their marriage for years? "Relationship broken, add people" is a very bad way to start a poly relationship.

Cheating (and that is what it is if he wife hadn't consented to him becoming intimate with you up to this point) is a very, very bad way to start a poly relationship.

At the very least take a step back from the husband and give him and his wife a chance to address the problems they have without you there to provide emotional fallback options for him. Maybe if he didn't have a Plan B hovering in the wings he'd put a bit more effort into working on his existing commitments.
 
Any suggestions as to how to approach the idea of a triad with her?

You could just ask her. "hey, are you up for a triad between me, you, and your husband?"

But don't ask that before you really think this out. It doesn't sound great here to me.

My friend has told me that I am thought of by them “as family”. I provide both with the emotional intimacy they no longer have together

He says "they" think that. Does not mean it is true. Does SHE also say she thinks that and confirm it? What's that mean then? Some kind of incesty thing?

We explored some sexual intimacy last year, but sex itself was tabled at that time.

Was wife aware this was going on?

Or is this a way of saying "We cheated, but didn't go all the way to penetrative intercourse. So now I want to talk her into a triad so he and I can be together and we don't feel guilty about continuing."

:confused:

There has also been a vacancy in the marriage since the children arrived. The couple sleeps in separate rooms. My understanding is that emotional and sexual intimacy has been absent for years, and the arrangement has become more one of friendship and economics.

So... you are the white knight who is going to make this all "better?" Not your job.

I don't think that "polyamory" is the solution to a marriage that's blah or struggling. It is not your job to be a "bandaid" person. If anything, poly has a way of magnifying all the cracks.

Why are you eager to jump into other people's drama?

I feel a sincere love for my friend and his wife and would like to approach them about a polyamorous relationship.

My friend seems to defer to his wife’s decision making, so it is she I feel I must approach.

So are you approaching THEM?

Or approaching her in order to gain better access to him?

Or it's a thing where you and he could approach her, but he's sending you on first by yourself? So he can watch what happens and be off the hook if she explodes?

Is he inviting you to be in a blah/wonky marriage? Maybe encouraging you to cheat with him? How's that loving behavior toward you?

I agree with steering clear. You deserve to be dated on the level, and treated WELL. Not all this shady/weird sounding business. I am concerned you are besotted by your crush on this guy and not thinking clearly or seeing how shady/weird it all sounds.

Just because she thought about it in the past, doesn't mean she still wants to NOW. "Don't want to confuse the children" sounds like "No. Not happening right now."

Getting involved with you might make enduring a blah marriage more bearable for HIM. Or hurry up a divorce. Which makes it better for HIM that way. But he can solve his marriage himself before courting you.

You deserve a better offer than "Come date messy me. So I can keep avoiding dealing with my dying on the vine marriage better."

Don't jump the gun. If you love him so much encourage him to step up and solve his old business before starting new business with you. Then wait and see what he does.
Show you the money first. Not promise to do it later, and then it never comes.

Galagirl
 
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You are all getting along great now. How do you think she will react when she finds out you and her husband have been intimate? Do you think it would be fair to keep that from her? You would be starting a relationship with a lie.

Let's say you do keep that from her. You are still going to approach her and say you have feelings for her husband. If that is problematic for her, your friendship could be over.

It sounds like you have discussed this with him and he doesn't think she would be into it. You should trust him on that. Keep in mind that he cheated. They have relationship problems. Adding people won't help them.
 
Just speculating here... Sometimes when children come, the parents' sex life can go on hiatus for a while. Babies and toddlers are exhausting, and sex drives, especially the wife's, can take a back seat. If a couple chooses to do family bed with the young children, sometimes dad might sleep apart for a while, depending on the size of the bed or bedroom. Sometimes romance can be hard to sustain, if the couple stops dating because of lack of babysitters and money for them. Or bedtime routines are not trusted to a sitter.

As the children get older and wean, and start to enjoy sitters, the sex life can heat up again.

I'd be wary of adding to this issue by providing a sexual outlet for dad. As a friend, I'd rather encourage them to work on their own romantic connection, not by having sex with both of them, but by offering resources for them to rebuild things between them (you could suggest websites, books, counseling). You could even offer to sit the kids yourself now and then, and bow out when the couple gets home from a calming restoring date, allowing them space to continue their fun by having sex, if the date got them in the mood.

At the same time, take care of you. Are you single? Get out there see other friends, or make some new friends, maybe meet some sexual partners of your own. Being so embroiled in between a married couple is playing with fire, playing with hearts. Your male friend could just be thinking with his dick, distracted by free and easy you, shirking his responsibilities to his wife/lover/mother of his children.

If they did do counseling already, and it didn't help them to become emotionally intimate and sexual together again, and they are opposed to trying another counselor, absolutely content with being roommates instead of lovers, that's different. But you won't know how comfortable they are with each going their own way sexually unless they clear it up *between themselves.* Perhaps they would reconsider polyamory. Rather than asking the wife though, I'd request the husband approach her again about trying poly. Poly doesn't need to "confuse the children," but it can be an issue to be openly poly in front of kids, since word might get out about Dad's (or Mom and Dad's) girlfriend. And some people can't be "out" as poly in their community.

Even if discuss this over many months, and decide they do both want you as a girlfriend, 3way sex with you (if that's what you're thinking) could be awkward and dangerous. They haven't had sex in years. Would they really want to share sex with each other with you in the bed? What if the male falls for you, but the female doesn't? Try not to think with your own genitals, and think of possible fallout, harm to their marriage, harm to the children, should there be jealousy drama, separation and divorce.
 
Thanks for the various insights. There is much to consider.

There are also other factors I did not mention in my initial post, factors that bring the legitimacy of the marriage itself into question. I’m not convinced, based on information from the wife, that this was ever more than a friendship and economic arrangement between the two of them, but that she chose to read more into it.

The children also were not supposed to happen. The wife had the first child against the expressed consent of my friend. She admits this, and it was public knowledge for years in advance among those who know them that there was an agreement against having children. That is when I think whatever arrangement they had took the biggest blow, because the problems resulting have been severe.

For myself, I have a sincere interest in both my friend and his wife. The sexual interest extends to my friend only, but there is emotional intimacy between his wife and me and a desire on my part to be part of their family. I don’t see the marriage as “broken”, but simply “not working”. If there were voids from the beginning and needs weren’t being met, then a triad might be a solution. To assume a dyad is the solution for all relationships is to assume a one-size-fits-all solution for everybody. I think people are more complex than that—some anyway.

I also cannot confirm infidelity on my friend’s part. Based on the 16 years we have known each other, I have no reason to doubt his character. If he claims an open relationship, but that his wife doesn’t want to know the specifics of his relations, so long as they are “safe”, I have to accept that. The claim is certainly consistent with other positions his wife takes (i.e., she seems to want to be protected from many truths about his life and her own).

My decision to pursue this was already made. I am simply asking for ways to best approach the wife with my intentions, so as to bring about a constructive discussion. I am sincerely interested in contributing to the family in exchange for what the family can afford me. Even if sex was not an option, I would still want to pursue this opportunity.

I do see the ‘white knight’ potential in myself. I certainly don’t want to try to fix anybody’s problems. However, if there is a genuine vacancy that I can fill and the family can fill a vacancy for me, I see that as a positive for everyone. I just need to know how to navigate, so that they see the value and, if interested, are motivated (by my actions) to “buy the cow”, not simply try to get “the milk” for free.
 
Not sounding good with the extra details.

I’m not convinced, based on information from the wife, that this was ever more than a friendship and economic arrangement between the two of them, but that she chose to read more into it.

It was his job to disillusion her. Not keep on going.

The children also were not supposed to happen. The wife had the first child against the expressed consent of my friend.

It's his job to do all he can to prevent pregnancy. If he's going bareback? He's not taking his share of responsibility for preventing children. If she lied to him about taking BC? And he went bareback? That's why he could NOT go bareback. He could wear a condom and she could use a different BC so they are doing something to prevent pregnancy.

If she lied? It is his job to end it with her because she lies about BIG stuff like babies. He could meet his child support/custody agreements because it isn't the kid's fault mom is a liar. Def not have MORE babies with her.

If he claims an open relationship, but that his wife doesn’t want to know the specifics of his relations, so long as they are “safe”, I have to accept that.


My decision to pursue this was already made. I am simply asking for ways to best approach the wife with my intentions, so as to bring about a constructive discussion.

Then you could ask her straight up. "I hear from your spouse that you guys have an Open relationship with a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Is that true?"

Keep it simple but be up front. Don't ask her loudly in a restaurant. Ask her quietly in a private space.

Galagirl
 
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To clarify, both had been tested by doctors and were told they were infertile. I don’t detect that there was any irresponsibility on either part. Seems more a case of dumb luck with poor follow-up after the fact. I agree, there were options after the fact, but none were pursued. That none of that happened and a second child was brought into the mix as a "fix" for the first (i.e., didn't want the first to grow up alone) is odd.

Think I will have a conversation with the wife the next time she and I have a get-together. Not a heavy, confrontational type of talk, but perhaps approach some subjects that might lead to deeper discussion if I see that there is receptivity.
 
It's not impossible, or even unlikely, that this will turn into a good relationship.

HOWEVER, it sure looks like you are actively creating a total dumpster fire here. I'll unpack it a little, but your presentation alone looks like a thesis waiting to happen.

You have judged their marriage, & found it wanting. In fact, you question why it even exists -- no, strike that: you deny its validity, because you feel yourself ideally suited to define a "real" marriage, & superior to both of them so prepared to nullify any & all of their agrements because they're deluded.
There are also other factors ... that bring the legitimacy of the marriage itself into question.

I’m not convinced ... that this was ever more than a friendship and economic arrangement
There are basically two reasons for a marriage commitment: either as an expression of deep & abiding love, or to provide a stable familial environment in which to raise children. (Naturally, these often overlap.) You say they mutually agreed upon the latter, so I don't see the basis for your damnation.

You have presented him here as a poor put-upon schlemihl, regularly misled by that woman, whose word cannot be trusted (as verified by "those who know them")... except when she seems to support your preconceptions. She has admitted her guilt to you. You separate "my friend" from "the wife," in fact, which appears to be a metaphor of your actual intent.
I’m not convinced, based on information from the wife, that this was ever more than a friendship and economic arrangement between the two of them, but that she chose to read more into it.

She admits this, and it was PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE -- FOR YEARS IN ADVANCE -- AMONG THOSE WHO KNOW THEM that there was an agreement against having children. ... the problems resulting have been SEVERE.
One moment, they were both clinically diagnosed as infertile... then you present that woman as a schemer, getting knocked up with no assistance whatever :rolleyes: from your imminent soulmate... then apparently having the unconscionable gall to not get an abortion when he ordered her to, saintly man that he is. There's at least three continuity breaks there -- please explain.
The children ... were not supposed to happen. THE WIFE had the first child against the expressed consent of MY FRIEND.

there is emotional intimacy between his wife and me
No, there's clearly not.
and a desire on my part to be part of their family.
No, there's a desire to absorb THEM into YOUR familial preconceptions, picking & choosing what you'll keep & what's trash. You will rescue them, save them from themselves --
I don’t see the marriage as “broken”, but simply “not working”. If there were voids from the beginning and needs weren’t being met, then a triad might be a solution.
To assume a dyad is the solution for all relationships is to assume a one-size-fits-all solution for everybody.
You are fixated on Final Solutions, clearly. In general, nonmonogamy is dynamic, often growing, & anything BUT final. And you've already concluded that a "triad" (wrong term) is YOUR one-size-fits-all.

You leap rather quickly to defend your soulmate's honor at the first hint he'd made an error -- is he so damaged that he NEEDS defense? If so, how can you "partner" with a man-child?
I have no reason to doubt his character.
You believe that "don't ask, don't tell" is a proper basis for a group marriage... yet claim you & that woman have a deep connection... yet you don't have Clue One about how to talk to her, & in fact think it's necessary that she be shielded from pesky little facts.
If he claims an open relationship, but that his wife doesn’t want to know the specifics of his relations, ... I have to accept that. The claim is certainly consistent with other positions his wife takes (i.e., she seems to want to be protected from many truths about his life and her own).
My decision to pursue this was already made. I am simply asking for ways to best approach the wife with my intentions, so as to bring about a constructive discussion.
You're asking us to tell you how best to inform that woman that you're going to be planting dynamite around the foundations, & want her to sign off on it without kicking up a fuss.
I just need to know how to navigate, so that they see the value and, if interested, are motivated (by my actions) to “buy the cow”, not simply try to get “the milk” for free.
Wow -- high self-esteem is a good thing, but you've clearly decided that it's YOU who is the hot commodity, & they (singly & plurally) need to make room for you to take over.
 
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Think I will have a conversation with the wife the next time she and I have a get-together. Not a heavy, confrontational type of talk, but perhaps approach some subjects that might lead to deeper discussion if I see that there is receptivity.

Well, you seem determined. However, I don't think this is a situation about which you can afford to be even the slightest bit wishy-washy. IMHO, you need to be direct and get everything out in the open. Here's how I would do it if I were you:

With both of them present, ask them to sit down because you have something important to tell them. One by one, look them in the eyes.

Then say, "Friend and Friend's Wife, I have been enjoying how close we've all become. I love and care about you both, and our friendship means a great deal to me. Friend's Wife, I would like to deepen our friendship to become more of a part of your family and help you raise your children. I am not sure if you know that Friend and I had an affair a few years ago, but it was my understanding that you knew and chose to look the other way. What I want, going forward, is to rekindle a sexual relationship with your husband, but this time openly and with your blessing. Friend, I believe you would be on board with this. I think this kind of arrangement will benefit all of us, including the children. Friend and Friend's Wife, what do you say?"

FTR, I don't think you can broach the subject without coming clean about the past.
 
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Yeah, there's several huge disconnects swirling around in this family... I don't see how The Wife can have her DADT thing if you and she are "emotionally intimate." Ie: close friends.

And if you really want to join their family, does that mean you have designs to move in with them? Certainly DADT will be even more impossible then.

Usually DADT things can only work (barely) when one of the couples' lovers lives apart, and can host for dates. Then the person who has the lover says to his primary, "I'm going out, be back at 11." Something like that. The primary partner may suspect her partner is out fucking someone, but she tries to not think about it, or imagines he's going out for poker night with the guys, or whatever. Either way, those hours he is out are a blank, a mystery to her, and that's how she wants it. She is so emotionally divorced from her primary she doesn't care what the hell he is doing, as long as she doesn't need to hear about it and can keep turning a blind eye.

If you plan to be fucking the guy, being close friends with the woman, have what you're calling a triad (though "triad" usually involves sex between all 3 and you don't seem to want that), moving in at least part time, helping raise their unwanted children, then everything has to be open and aboveboard. Or you might find yourself out on your ass completely, and those poor unwanted children, who may see you as an aunt, will lose someone important to them.

This is all loaded with minefields we can't even imagine at this point. But the heart wants what it wants. You could manifest a miracle and make it work for all concerned (5 people). Who knows?
 
Again, thanks to those who offered constructive input. Bearing in mind that you folks are not in possession of all the data I have, so some of the assumptions that have been made here are not relevant.

There is definitely a communication problem in the marital relationship. She admits this. I have observed this. I have my suspicions as to its origin, but it’s not my problem to solve. I must also allow for the possibility that there is a communication problem between my friend and me. If so, I will address that on my end.

What I see here are ways that three people’s needs can be served and an environment be made better for everyone, including the children. I do not foresee a co-habitation situation, at least while the children are in the home, nor is that what I am seeking at this time. Open to it in the future, if practical for all concerned.

What I’m seeking initially is to open a discussion between the three of us concerning the genuine attraction (emotional to both, sexual to the man—to my knowledge, we are all heterosexual, and I define 'triad' as shared intimacy, not necessarily sexual), closeness, and love I feel for them both. Find out if that is mutual. Also want to point out where needs are not being met in the family, in both households, and at individual level and point out areas where we can support each other and improve conditions—I see solutions here for all. These are practical, economic solutions to complex problems that do not require full-time co-habitation and would be less risky than for the two households to continue on the courses they are currently headed.

Long-term, I would ideally like a marriage, wherein my investment is protected and mutual security is afforded by the fidelity between the partners. If that marriage can be had here, great. If not, I will evaluate my want of those things vs. the degree to which my needs are being met at the appropriate time.

It sounds like the best course is to engage all three of us in a discussion at an appropriate time, communicate my feelings and observations, find out if they are shared, and if the couple wishes to explore solutions with me.

Indeed, the heart wants what the heart wants. But, the head is not removed from the decision making.
 
Wow. Sure is a lot of negativity and judgment on this forum. For the record, I didn't ask for either. I asked for constructive thoughts as to how to approach this couple about a multi-partner relationship. If I want judgment and condemnation, I'll visit a church, thank you very much.
 
Oh OK. You keep revealing pertinent information that adds to how we respond.

You do not want to move in, mainly for the kids' sakes
You do not desire sex with the wife, just with your friend
You want marriage
You want marriage possibly with this guy (but of course, he's already married)

Some members here see this as a cowgirl move, hence the disgust.

My only advice is to be completely honest with both of them. Especially this part:

Long-term, I would ideally like a marriage, wherein my investment is protected and mutual security is afforded by the fidelity between the partners. If that marriage can be had here, great.

Short term, you want to have sex with the guy, while somehow maintaining or growing a deeper friendship with the woman. Long term you want to be married, ideally to this guy. You'd need to see if they have any desire to divorce! That is quite an ulterior motive. Maybe you want to force them apart by showing the man what he's missing. Otherwise why would you even be putting in this effort?
 
Wow. Sure is a lot of negativity and judgment on this forum. For the record, I didn't ask for either. I asked for constructive thoughts as to how to approach this couple about a multi-partner relationship. If I want judgment and condemnation, I'll visit a church, thank you very much.

But you don't really seem to ultimately want a "multi-partner" relationship. You want to force this couple apart and get married to the guy.
 
That's your perception perhaps, but it's not accurate. I seek a three-person arrangement, not a two-person one. This particular situation presents compatibility.
 
That's your perception perhaps, but it's not accurate. I seek a three-person arrangement, not a two-person one. This particular situation presents compatibility.

It helps to get the words right. You are seeking a V relationship in which you are very close with your metamour. That is certainly less complicated than a triad.

You came on here with your story and several of us explained some of the pitfalls. We did that because we have experience. Then you changed your story and that made it look like you were making excuses. Instead of taking it personally you should just see it as another side of the equation. Now that you've seen all the sides, if you still think you should go for it then go for it. I hope it works out for you. It certainly is doable.
 
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That's your perception perhaps, but it's not accurate. I seek a three-person arrangement, not a two-person one. This particular situation presents compatibility.

You have conflicting desires, if I read you right. As you said, and I quoted, you want to get married to someone, at some point (implying a one man/one woman cohabitation, "fidelity" [monogamy?] shared finances, insurance, etc). In the meantime you seem determined to have sex with your "friend," with the blessing of "his wife," and to be emotionally involved with both. You are open to marrying this guy, which would necessitate him getting divorced (moving out, arranging child custody, splitting up their belongings, etc., etc.).

Or do you imagine being married to him would include his ex wife not moving out, so as to share childcare in the home with both you and him? What about her need for intimacy/sex/romance? Do you imagine she'd be fine with being in the house as a housekeeper childcare person, while you and her husband (or ex) flirt and fuck?

Do you not see the conflict? Do you not see the strife that could ensue?
 
You slam the wife left and right in your comments. State how incompatible they are.. yet you think this would make an awesome triad. :rolleyes:

No you want to keep her close to manipulate the situation to get what you want. You don't give two hoots about her, or the kids, it's about what you want. If you truly cared about them both you would bow out until they are at a better place in their marriage or their relationship ends.
 
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