New poly-relationship has me in crisis!

Thank you

Hi, I'm new to the forum and just wanted to say thank you for the bravery you've shown writing this post and seeking help as you begin this journey. My wife and I have a very similar story and I felt almost as if you were readings my mind as I read your post and subsequent responses.

Thank you for all the inciteful responses as well. My wife and I just had an amazing conversation because of it. Unfortunately, we were not as patient and she had sex with her new friend before I (and she as well, I think) were really ready. I was a wreck that night and about 4 days following. I never cried that much in my life. I never felt more lost, and She felt hurt so we "put a stop" to this lifestyle soon after. We stopped because we agreed upfront that our marriage came first, but I felt as though she resented me for it.

It turns out, she mistook my insecurities for jealousy and possessiveness. It wasn't until we each read this post that we each understood where the other was coming from. I'm still haven't come to terms with acceptance yet, but we are moving there together, 1 step at a time.
 
Hi RichinPA,

Glad to hear this has been a helpful thread for you too.
 
So you don't think I should be hear about their excitement at this new relationship. I mean It's not like I don't know what is going on when I'm not around. I just struggle to get it out of my head when I think about them. I want like a box to place it in my head so It won't bother me, some kind of rationale that will let me say hey this is alright and good for them. You know.

Both nate and sam don't want to hear about the other one. I also don't want to hear about my metamore (if i had them)
 
I think how much you want to hear is very personal.

I like knowing that Mal and Djinn are having sex, because I know that Djinn, especially, feels that sex is an indicator of a healthy relationship. I feel insecure when they are NOT having sex because I know it makes her look for new partners, and I don't feel like I'm ready for that. She assumes that Mal and I are having sex, but doesn't feel a need to know details (and I wouldn't want to share them).

Occasionally we (over too much wine) share things like "he never cuddles me in bed", "oh? he cuddles me too much" and it has lead to uncomfortable feelings, but sometimes also to good discussions because one or the other of us had just assumed that he was - or was not - a cuddler with everyone, so we could clear up some misunderstandings.

I also think that how much you want to hear can change over time. At first you might be overwhelmed with hearing about anything (even though you KNOW what happens), but as time goes on you might find that you like to hear that they had a good meal at a new restaurant, or even that they tried a new sexual position and it was great. It is all up to you (all) what is discussed or not discussed amongst yourselves. There is no right or wrong answer.
 
I don't have any metamour at this point, but I've told both Hubby and S2 that if either of them was to start seeing someone else, I would want to know he's seeing someone else, I would want to know the *first* time they have sex, and I would want to know if/when they choose to fluid bond. No details. Just the fact of it happening.

I *might* want to know when they're seeing their other person, especially with S2 because time that he spends with someone else would impact the time he has available to see me. But I wouldn't want details. For example, "I'm getting together with Suzy-Q on Saturday" would be something I'd want to know; "I'm taking Suzy-Q to the art museum and then that diner I took you to a couple weeks ago" would be TMI for me.

I don't really talk to either of them about the time I spend with the other. I'm more likely to talk to Hubby about my time with S2, because when I'm with S2 we actually DO things; when I'm with Hubby, generally I'm sitting in the living room and he's downstairs on his computer, and we may or may not actually interact. We don't go out together. We don't even cuddle and watch TV together. Whereas S2 takes me places, we sometimes go to parties with the group from the chat room we belong to, and we have long conversations, so I have more to tell Hubby about those interactions than I have to tell S2 about the interactions with Hubby.
 
I am going to assume that at this point in time you are on board. You are willing to go there. That this is about becoming more ABLE in skills to pull it off.

(If you are not actually willing to polyship? You are going against your grain? Not really into it? COULD STOP PARTICIPATING IN THIS. SAY NO. )

I am sorry you struggle. I am not surprised you feel confused though. Mixed messages like this do not contribute to "stability" for you:
"She also told me that If I was really adamant about them not being together she wouldn't have given up her marriage over this and they would have ended it"

So one the one hand, this is her making deliberate, conscious choices so you can feel emotionally safe with her as the new hinge. (But how "adamant" do you have to be in voicing concerns before she hears you over her own desires? SCREAMING? How safe can you feel with a hinge like that? "I would have stopped if you REALLY were hurting lots, but if you only hurt a little I'll just ignore it?)


"It also hurts when she tells me the story about them having feelings for each other and they tried to resist it, but couldn't and realized this was the only for things to work."

On the other hand, nobody is in charge of themselves. Some "destiny" thing is going on. She is not choosing deliberately or consciously. So you can feel emotionally unsafe with her as the new hinge. (And things to work for WHO? Just them? Are you not being considered?)

My head would be going "Huh? Say what?!" with that weird kind of communication.

It might feel cozy to her to tell all this gushing stuff with you, but you probably do not love hearing things that imply "nobody is in charge here!" or "my hinge is not solid!" You could ask her if she is aware of how that de-stabilizing that sounds to you.

To be honest, to me she sounds NRE la-las. Which is a reason, but not excuse for poor behavior.

You sound at risk for entering poly hell or already in it.

You are allowed to say "Look, I would like to get to the point where we can share X amount freely. But at this time in order to feel stable during changes? I would like to start with sharing less and ramping it up over the next few months. Going from 0 news coming down that pipeline to 100% blast coming down that pipeline is not giving me time to adjust. You are giving me more info than I can digest at one time. Could you be willing to talk to me about information management?"

Then talk about HOW that information management will look like at this time, and how it looks later. Divide the "NEED to know now" from "WANT to know eventually."

  • The stuff you NEED to know now is safer sex practices, calendars -- the stuff that directly can affect you in daily/weekly living. That comes first.
  • The stuff you might WANT to know eventually? Like details or stories -- that's not critical to know right this minute. It can wait till later and come online more slowly. Include him in the conversations. What stuff can "cross over" and what stuff "stops at the hinge."

Hearing details does not seem to bring on an idea of "stable" for you -- which I think you might want more of at this time. There's a certain amount of weird because the "old normal" is not it any more and the "new normal" isn't firmly established yet.

But hinge wife adding to the wobble by overloading you with data? That's not especially kind behavior out of a hinge. Her pleasure in TELLING doesn't override your need to HEAR at a pace you can deal in.

You could suggest she keep a journal. Tell you whatever in it, and then you could read it when you are ready to take new data on board. That way she gets to tell all she wants, but you can postpone hearing it til you are on surer footing. Less... "whooshy" stuff.

You are all on dealing with stages of change. Only they are on track A and you are on track B. For them it's positive change -- they are on this new exploring thing. Loss of stability is compensated by that exploring thing.

For you it is negative change -- you have lost stability. Compensation is what? Dealing with whooshy gushy stuff from wife?

They also have had more time than you to playground the "them as a couple" and what a "V" might be like than you have.

It is challenging, but it doesn't have to be doom. You guys can get through transitional time ok if you pace yourselves and respect that each person is at a different point in their process. As the hinge she will deal in things the V-arm people will not. And vice-versa.

You? You could get ok asking her to dial the la-las down a little bit around you for the first few months to let you get your bearings. Not overload you with data. That doesn't mean you don't wish her and him well on that side of the V. It just means YOU need some digestion time/space for yourself.

Sloppy hinge leaking data all over the place -- that can get off putting. She might mean well in wanting to be full transparent, not hide anything, and be totally honest. But honesty can come with a modicum of tact. "Whooshy" stuff isn't cool.

Talk and get clear on what "new normal" you guys are trying to aim for. Make sure all three agree that's the goal.

Talk and get clear on what is TMI right now, and what is just right, and how "ramping it up" can look for you guys over time.

Talking about jealousy management might help too.

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articl...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

You might want to look at the worksheets here to help with the sex conversation too.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/


Hang in there!
Galagirl
 
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Wifey

Your wife is being inconsiderate. She is more than likely not into a poly relationship. She is just really into this person and she is doing what she can to be with him. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is how many poly relationships start but it is the wrong way. The correct way is to talk about it for a long time. Have you set up your rules list yet? You need a list of rules written down. Is she willing to hold off on her relationship while you get comfortable with the idea or even start trying to date someone yourself? You have to ask her to answer honestly. If you came to her before she knew this guy with the same situation and said you wanted to date another woman and talked about her all the time, would she be happy?

I went through the exact same situation as you did a few years back and it ended horribly. You are jumping head first into something you both are not ready for yet. Tell her you need a few weeks to talk about it. It sounds like you are trying to be really cool because you love her but you are not really cool with the situation. I tricked myself into believing I was able to deal with it when we first started and it ended in a huge bout of depression and almost separation.

If you are afraid to tell her "exactly" how you feel, you are not ready for this. If she goes on about him and you are not telling her it makes you feel bad and gives you horrible stomach pains, you are not ready for this. If you are afraid she will leave you if you ask for a breather so you can figure this out mentally, you both are not ready for this. See if the other guy is willing to take a STD test. That might save both of you a lot of heartache in the future.

By the way, don't worry about the other guys wiener. I used to worry about that but it is a waste of time. I have a real average one and my wife has had bigger and it really has never been an issue.

Here are some beginner rules if you decide to go through with this.
1. Have a set time for her to come home. You shouldn't be doing sleep overs this early.
2. Always have safe sex.
3. Always notify the other partner if the person they are dating says anything about sabotaging the primary relationship.
4. Never have a person over to "your" house. That is just bad news if you are beginning.
5. Be discrete. Don't go out dating someone where you mutual friends will see unless you want to be open with your friends about your relationship.
6. If you are not comfortable about hearing certain things or lots of things about the person they are dating, set limits on what they should share. That's communication folks.
 
Messed up in my head again

Hey guys, I know the conversation has progressed since I last posted, but I am at your mercy again. Things have been going so well for us lately I feel like our marriage has been getting stronger. Everyone is open and honest and loving, but I lost sight of that tonight and I am spiraling down emotionally like I'm right back were we started. My wife and I had a conversation tonight, which I we have had already so she kind of frustrated that I was bringing things up again. We were talking about her and Chris and she told me how she likes to help people like us who have been through a rough life, and that makes sense to me, and then she said that she can do that for a lot of people besides Chris, but what messed me up was that she said that romantic feelings emerged, things just lined up for her to feel romantic about him. She doesn't just get romantic feelings with anybody, but they spent a lot of time together and she found she could be really comfortable with him. They tried to deny their romantic feelings, but they were there. He just pushed the right buttons for her. This hurts me a bit. Remember I was doing well, all of a sudden I am messed up about it all, she says that she can feel strongly about helping a lot of people and romance never plays into it, but it did this time. Why does that hurt me. Is this okay. She reassures me every day that she loves me and that we are strong and he is a good friend and I accept him too. Why have I allowed myself to lose perspective. The romance that happened behind my back hurts, they didn't mean for it to happen. How can I make sense of this. I'm sorry I ramble when I vent like this. I mean can people develop romantic feelings for another person like this? Can people develop these feelings for another without losing the feelings they have for their husband? Is this Okay?
 
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I mean can people develop romantic feelings for another person like this? Can people develop these feelings for another without losing the feelings they have for their husband? Is this okay?
 
I mean can people develop romantic feelings for another person like this? Can people develop these feelings for another without losing the feelings they have for their husband? Is this okay?

Yes I developed feelings for sam while still in love with nate. Ill admit that I did feel somw disconnect from nate when sam and I first got together but a lot of that was NRE and the d act that the first 5 weeks sam and I got together nate was gone in a medical study so sam and I spent a lot of time together. I knew it was temporary and certainly not enough to leave nate over. Truth be told if my ex had been down with me having another male partner I wouldn't have left him either and I still love him to this day
 
First of all, breathe. See if you can take a few measured breaths and calm yourself down a bit. Maybe have a glass of water and sit down.

Yes, people can develop strong feelings for someone even if they are married to someone else, and without their feelings toward their spouse ever wavering one bit. It is okay.

It sounds to me like you take everything she says and turn it around somehow to hurt yourself with, for example "if she wants someone else she must not want me anymore." You are also comparing yourself to him, like "what does he have that pulled her away from me?" or "don't I push the right buttons for her anymore?" -- or something like that.

I was thinking recently about this tendency to put oneself down when someone we like/love/care about indicates they like/love/care about someone else. I even see it happen at my job. Whenever the owner of the business where I work would praise one of the managers in some small way, like even just a simple "I like her sense of humor," or "she really understands the operations side of things," my manager would respond by saying things like, "Don't I have a good sense of humor?" or "What's wrong with how I manage?" The owner would get frustrated because her seeing something great in one manager did not mean she was comparing them at all, nor that the other manager wasn't also great at certain things and good at her job. My manager was clearly jealous -- she wanted to be the owner's favorite. It was just like how children compete with each other for a parent's or teacher's affections and/or approval. Those kinds of patterns from childhood are taught to us, and then become so ingrained in how we relate to the world that we carry them into our adult romantic relationships.

There is nothing about you that is inadequate or lacking. Your wife simply got to know this guy after spending lots of time with him, and found herself attracted to him. It even happens to people who are staunchly monogamous. We are taught by society that those kinds of feelings are bad, that we can only feel that way about one person at a time, but sometimes feelings naturally blossom and it just happens.

I have several friends whom I love dearly, but I do not have a "best" friend. I have very different relationships with each of them, but I love them all. Yes, I am talking about platonic love, but why does romantic love have to be any different? Why must there be exclusivity when sex enters the picture? Sex and love are not the same things. Intimacy and love are not the same things.

Trust your wife when she says she loves you and isn't going anywhere. However, I think you should let her know how difficult this is for you to adjust to this and ask her to slow down and and take it easy with being giddy about him around you. Some couples take a year or more of talking and handling all the feelings that come up before anyone actually takes any steps to be intimate (physically, emotionally, intellectually, etc.) with someone else. So, I urge you both to go slowly.
 
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THIS:

You could suggest she keep a journal. Tell you whatever in it, and then you could read it when you are ready to take new data on board. That way she gets to tell all she wants, but you can postpone hearing it til you are on surer footing.

Is a **great** idea and way to approach striking a balance between her need to tell and your need to know.

BMB
 
Someone can definitely develop romantic feelings for another without their feelings toward their spouse being affected.

In my opinion, that's part of what polyamory IS. Developing romantic feelings for more than one person.

My feelings for Hubby aren't lessened at all by my feelings for S2, because they're two different people. Although some argue with this analogy, my feelings for Alt aren't lessened by my feelings for Country, either; that obviously isn't romantic love, but still... the point is that love is not a finite thing.

The idea that you can only be in love with one person at a time is monogamist thinking, and is, I think, impacted by society's emphasis on being with one person and one person only. But I think even among people in monogamous relationships, it's possible to be in love with more than one person. The monogamous folks just either don't act on it, or leave their spouse for the other, whereas in polyamory it's possible to act on those feelings and to keep both people in your life.
 
I mean can people develop romantic feelings for another person like this? Can people develop these feelings for another without losing the feelings they have for their husband? Is this okay?

I could be wrong... But I think you want to know specific and might not really care about general. So I think what you might mean is

I mean can my wife develop romantic feelings for him like this? Can my wife develop these feelings for him without losing the feelings she has for me? Is this okay?

If so? That remains to be seen. You are in a transition space. You cannot know the outcome ahead of time to see that she can navigate it without losing feelings for you. I think it is normal to wonder, and feel anxious. It just feels weird til "the new normal" arrives.

Then the last part... "Is it ok?" Ok with Who? YOU?

Well, that YOU have to examine. You are responsible for that. Are you ok participating in a polyship? Are you surviving or thriving in such a model? Are you willing/able to accept your wife having romantic feelings for more people than just you? Are you willing/ able to share your wife's attention with another person without losing feelings for your wife? Are you willing/able to be out in such a model and deal with any community response? (Ex: friends, family?)

If this experience is making you examine your core values, core beliefs, core abilities? You could sit down and examine them then and figure out what you want for you. You have to be the one to see what still holds true for you and what could change for you.

Are you trying to avoid introspection? So you seek wife to reassure you but it comforts only til the next time it bubbles up again from within wanting to be dealt with?

If you think this is heebie jeebies... Mark them on calendar. Maybe being able to see them coming less often/shorter duration over time will help you see progress even if in the moment it all feels intense. By the same token, if it keeps on going with no end in sight? That is also data you can use.

If you find participating in a polyship goes against your grain? This is more than just "transitional heebie jeebies?" But a deeper going against your values or beliefs? It is just not your thing? Then you could remind yourself that you can choose to stop participating. You do not have to do things that you really do not want to do.

I encourage you to do the soul searching you need to do, and take the actions you need to take so you can find more permanent peace and stability again.

Galagirl
 
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I mean can people develop romantic feelings for another person like this? Can people develop these feelings for another without losing the feelings they have for their husband? Is this okay?

Definitely! Just like people love more than just one of their children, or one of their friends. Some times people think of romantic love as though it were a pie: if their lover gives a piece to someone else, then there will be less left for them. Love is more of an infinite resource than that, however, for many, and the giving of a piece of the heart to one person doesn't leave less for another. That said, not everyone is comfortable in sharing their partner's love, boundless though it may be, with other lovers, and that's okay, too. You get to choose what model relationship you participate in.

Other resources are definitely limited: time, money, sex drive, etc. are all things that can play into love, and if those resources are taxed, that can also be a problem.

You have to decide what is okay for you.
 
The issue often is the older partner starts acting out because they aren't willing to deal with their emotions or communicate then that van cause a break down and sometimes a break up.

Or the peroson with the new partner gets so wrapped up in NRE that they might ignore boundaries put in place or ignore the needs of their other partner. that can cause huge issues as well.

Being a hinge is a huge responsibly because you have to balance time and energy between multiple partners while controlling you emotions. It is so much harder when your parnters aren't willing to communicate OR are making demands
 
Re (from Danielsen):
"I mean can people develop romantic feelings for another person like this? Can people develop these feelings for another without losing the feelings they have for their husband? Is this okay?"

All I can tell you is that I am in a hetero MFM V that started out as an M/F marriage. Snowbunny (the wife) did develop romantic feelings for me, without losing the feelings she has/had for her husband. That doesn't mean it works out that way every time, but it does work out that way very often. I think you have good reason to hope that it will be okay.
 
Thanks for that. For all the posts this far. I'm really dealing with a lot right now and just when I think I'm fine my anxiety kicks in and I start to go to some really dark places. I'm struggling with scary scenarios right now and I just don't know how to deal with them. I fear the worst right now but someone told me it's because I picking up on the fact that my wife and her boyfriend are going through new relationship emotions. They are intense right now. Does this make sense that I could be picking up on their intensity?
 
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