what is "in the closet" ?

Hopefully this shows up

nonmonogamy.gif
 
Maybe that diagram will help you out somewhat in describing what it is you are trying to say?

As I said before, Poly-multiple & amory-love

But-HOW one chooses to put that together has endless possibilities.

Also; I am poly, I am also bisexual, I am also a lot of other things too. Being poly doesn't inherently stop you from being a swinger. Being both doesn't mean you aren't a "player" for lack of a better term.
Furthermore; it doesn't mean you aren't going to cheat or lie or any other such thing.


Yes-there are poly people who are assholes. There are also mono people who are assholes. There are simply a lot of various people who are assholes.

The key is in finding the kind of assholes who mesh well with you personally.
 
One of the quotes from these boards that made my list (on my profile):

"There are douchebags and there are poly people. There is over lap. However, being a douchebag does not make you poly and being poly does not make you a douchebag. In other words, a person's douchebaggery transcends their relationship status, sexuality, sex, race, religion and all that. It stands on it's own!" - Vixtoria 4/23/13, new to poly an having difficulty thread on polyamory.com

PS. LR - I'm adding your "assholes" comment to the list...
 
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i'm going out on a limb here

polyamory, ... in practice takes at least 3 people ?,
at least a willingness to love more than one at a time right ?

... so when did it get accepted that polyamory also meant no desire to love another at all ?
 
... so when did it get accepted that polyamory also meant no desire to love another at all ?

Where are you getting this idea from?

"Love" is not something that people can just turn on/off like a switch. 21 years ago I fell in "love" with my husband...19 years later I fell in "love" with my boyfriend.

So I can't consider myself poly (according to your rules) because, although I was committed to the to the idea that loving one didn't mean I couldn't love another, and I enjoyed myself, sexually, in the meantime?

I can be a sexual (homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, pansexual) being and CHOOSE celibacy. Why can't I be a polyamorous person who waits until my next love happens without withholding sex from people that I want to have sex with?

For me, love and sex are two different things. I can love people I don't have sex with, I can have sex with people I don't love (as long as they know that sex =/= love for me); Neither of these makes me poly. It is the fact that I can(or want to) love more that one person at a time that makes me poly. But having sex with people I don't love doesn't make me poly...it just means that I am an "ethical slut" IN ADDITION to being poly.
 
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i'm kinda curious how long this will take now

3 pages of posts ...
a full day later ...

and people still can't understand a simple point

so i am starting somewhere, and people are lost, so lost.

---

lets try again, ...

poly, being in love with more than one (or the potential to be in love with more than one)

what is it called when there is no love ?

Edit:
for Jane (seem extra confused), ... no desire to love (i don't know why i thought i mentioned this already, guess it was overlooked)
 
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i'm kinda curious how long this will take now

3 pages of posts ...
a full day later ...

and people still can't understand a simple point

so i am starting somewhere, and people are lost, so lost.

---

lets try again, ...

poly, being in love with more than one (or the potential to be in love with more than one)

what is it called when there is no love ?

Edit:
for Jane (seem extra confused), ... no desire to love (i don't know why i thought i mentioned this already, guess it was overlooked)

OK, still confused, why are you posting on a polyAMORY (i.e. multiple LOVE) board if your question has to do with NO LOVE?

The person could be cheating, open, swinging, or just fucking around - it would depend on the context. People can be all of these and still be poly - even though being these does not MAKE one poly.

For the first several years of my sexual experience I had ZERO desire to develop "love"-type relationships. I didn't ID as poly then (since I didn't really believe that "love" existed) - but I was open to the idea that IF love existed then there was no reason why that it couldn't apply to more than one person at a time. (call me "poly-curious" from the time I discovered sex - age 16 , until the time I discovered love - age 18).

Personally FWB "count" as poly (for ME), because I don't cultivate friends that I don't "love" in some manner or another (if I don't care for them deeply then they are "acquaintances").
 
Jane, because polyamory, as loose and varies as the term is, means nothing to anyone, might as well still be in the closet by sating you are poly

Jane, because even something as simple as trying to identify what poly is not seems to be beyond your grasp

Edit:
there is a bit more to this idea, but seems kinda pointless to get into it at all, the basics seem over most peoples heads, the obvious (to me) part builds on that, ... and the reasons behind it ... well if you're lost on the basics, the point to it you'll never have a hope with.
 
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Don't try to put the blame on people for "not getting it" if you can't take the time to explain what you're talking about. Repeating yourself over and over again isn't going to get you anywhere if what you're saying doesn't actually make sense. It just makes you look like one of those elderly tourists who expects to be understood in a foreign language if they just speak loudly enough.
 
emm, how does one describe a swinger then that says it's not poly ?, ... i've heard several try to mix them as if they are the same
 
Perhaps if you were to phrase your question as an understandable English sentence someone might be able to answer it.
how does one describe a swinger then that says it's not poly ?
What is "that" in this question? Is it the swinger doing the describing? Is it the description of the swinger? What is "it"? A gender-neutral swinger who says they're not poly? Is it the swinger saying they're not poly or is it someone else?

My possible interpretations:
1. "How does one describe a swinger who says they're not poly?"
2. "How does one describe a swinger who does say they're poly?"
3. "How does a description of a swinger differ from a description of someone who is poly?"
4. All of the above.
5. None of the above.

Help us narrow it down. Are any of these in the ballpark?
 
You state in the original post

<quote>i picked "in the closet" because poly tends to go by a definition so vague it tends to avoid definition, and not being open about how you define yourself is being in the closet isn't it ????
</quote>

I would disagree with that statement. First of all a vague definition will always tend to be more inclusive not less. Since it is more inclusive it will be easier to define oneself as poly. Secondly if one choses to be open or closed on how/who/when they share the information with is what defines if you are in the closet or not. Better stated it is not the definition of the label but how one shares that label. We are in the closet since my wife has already lost a job due to being outed. In her profession it is common to have moral clauses and our lifestyle does not fit others view on being moral. Since we are honest with each other and all involved we feel that we are moral. But that is a rabbit hole for another thread one day.

You tend to be trying to prove your point that someone that defines themselves as poly is not actually poly. Again a broader vague definition is more inclusive not less inclusive. Add to that the fact the being poly is not mutually exclusive from other labels and confusion can occur. I believe that JQS and LR have provided that people can be in multiple groups, define themselves as poly but not actively practicing, or like most of us practice it in a way that is not the same as others. If you don't get that relook at the Venn Diagram that LR posted. I think that part of that diagram is tongue in cheek but it is a picture on how complicated this can be. I think you want to try to relieve the hurt by proving to them they are not poll. Even if you can prove that it does not change what happen or how they practice whatever they practice. Heck LR even pointed out the being an asshole is not mutually exclusive to being poly. Imaging adding an asshole category to LR Venn Diagram :).

Bottom line I am not sure you will get what you are looking for even if you can clarify your question better as EMM has pointed out.

Mike
 
Ok so since the title implies asking me what it means to me to be "in the closet" I will say that I am 98% in the closet in that I only have a handful of people in my real life that know about my relationship with my boyfriend (other than my husband and boyfriend obviously). I have a couple of ultra anonymous online accounts for forums like this where I can be fully open and honest about my life. But IRL I don't get to talk about both of the men I love openly. And I hate it, but for the safety of my Daughter and any future kids it's worth it to me.

As for what I think poly "is" as in a definition of some sort. I'm not on that diagram exactly, but were a Poly fi Vee. I'm the Poly one. I'm just lucky enough that my guys are ok with sharing me. I love them both, and there both primary's, and we are all raising my daughter together.

I think that Poly is "supposed" to be referencing people who are or can love more than one person at the same time. I think it should be used to describe at minimum a dating style of loving more than one person at a time.

But from reading here and other places I think the term poly has evolved to mean anything involving more than two people in a romantic or sexual way.

I don't really agree with that as most of those already have a word to describe them ex. Swinging, swapping, orgie, cheating, BDSM Wife/Husband. I think using the term Poly about every relationship that brings in more than two people is why a lot of people refer to poly as polyfuckery. Becouse to a lot of people it looks more about the sex than the love.
 
with poly being as vague a definition as a definition can have, ... virtually anyone and their dog can say they are poly regardless of what they have in mind for a relationship (or lack there of)

so being polyamorous really doesn't say anything about anyone other than a word some people like to use to tell others virtually nothing about what you do for a relationship (or lack there of)

so really calling yourself poly, as it doesn't mean anything cohesive, might as well still be in the closet

in addition to being poly meaning so very little, it's decidely so vague that anyone has to ask you about your own take and how you define poly for yourself, ... making it redundant

---

i'm not even slightly curious to hear people ignore this so they can make a point to say it's wrong

if you have something to say, address what was said, reread what i said before posting so that whatever you feel like saying is valid instead of your imagination about what you wanted to think i said (but never did)

as for those who can't separate differences and still think everything is the same, ... no, don't want to hear from you either

if anyone thinks i've got a chip on my shoulder, ... ya, i've heard from too many people that like to argue "this is what it is for me, so everyone else should pay attention", ... because the reality is no one cares what it is for you, ... the reality is the only time anyone is curious is when they want to know how it fits into their life, ...

people are lazy, ... so they don't care to ask unless they are interested, and if they are interested then they don't need to ask.

it's like beating a dead horse, everyone gets their view and thinks it matters, ... it doesn't, you can call yourself poly, and that means absolutly nothing.

all anyone cares about when they are curious is how it affects them, where do they fit in it all, ... and all the 101 terms that people adore in poly are nothing other than confusion that cover about 5 or 6 real differences.

but hey, i'm just some jerk with a touch (or a lot) of bitterness about something that's so obvious and everyone is in love with worshiping why it must continue the way it is ... calling yourself poly might as well still be in the closet because to anyone else, it means absolutly nothing
 
or to the poly women, they just love how the guys think poly means you have anonymous sex with everyone (that's defended as poly as well btw)
 
PERSONAL HAT:

Maybe part of the issue is that you are assuming we all identify as poly per se.
I don't introduce myself to people as "I'm poly".

I tell people I have a husband and a boyfriend, we all live together, we have 5 kids, 3 grandkids and two dogs.

When they ask (which they inevitably do) HOW does THAT work

THEN I reply; I love both of them, they love me, and we all love the kids, grandkids and pets.
Just like any other person, we work through problems, have arguments and issues that arise which need solving and we live our lives.

So-MY question is WHY are you so hung up on terminology?
Because invariably; labels are IMPOSSIBLE to use functionally if we are so anal retentive that we can't accept that simplest form.

POLYAMORY is loving more than one.
PERIOD.

The rest of what you are TRYING to define could be summed up in a variety of different labels.

Poly-fi for example or solo-poly as another example.

There is a whole list of terms and definitions and labels on a specific thread in golden nuggets.
There is an even more detailed one at morethantwo.com (which by the way is where i got that venn diagram, it is NOT mine-it's readily available on the net).

There IS a lot of cross over. For exactly the reason i stated above.


MODERATOR HAT:
if all you want is to prove poly isn't-this is not the place for you to post.
 
Moderator Hat:

Furthermore; you do not get to dictate who you hear from so long as you choose to post to this board. If you can't graciously accept that any participant has the freedom to ask any question they want of your posts; again-this may not be the right place for you.
 
I'm mono, but my partner isn't.

What "Poly" as a label means to me:
- A means of looking up information when you're new to it all
- A means of finding circles of people you can talk with about it, without being judged

I can't speak for what it means to my partner, as an identity, but from my observance, it means he's open to other relationships. He hasn't been into casual sex, but he HAS enjoyed casual dating, in a way - meeting people is enjoyable to him, regardless of whether or not a relationship results.

What it's not, to me:
- A label that doesn't need qualification.

Edited to add: This doesn't mean that it doesn't mean more to me as a term, but this is more of a "what do I use it for" type of thing.

I've stopped using the word to describe my relationship to other people, since I spend more time UN-explaining whatever their preconceptions of "poly" are before I explain what our relationship is like. I usually just explain the relationship dynamics instead. Lots of words, but whatever.

He's not in the closet. His family knows. His coworkers know. I guess I'm not sure why there's so much judgment in your post regarding the use of the word "poly" as an identity.

FWIW, I don't find the ambiguity any different than me referring to myself as a "nerd" - just because further conversation and explanation would follow doesn't make the label invalid.
 
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Jane, because polyamory, as loose and varies as the term is, means nothing to anyone, might as well still be in the closet by sating you are poly

Jane, because even something as simple as trying to identify what poly is not seems to be beyond your grasp

Edit:
there is a bit more to this idea, but seems kinda pointless to get into it at all, the basics seem over most peoples heads, the obvious (to me) part builds on that, ... and the reasons behind it ... well if you're lost on the basics, the point to it you'll never have a hope with.
Watch yourself. You are being pretty rude and insulting here, and are coming close to attacking. The fact is that people have just been trying to make sense of your wording. There is no reason to complain about people not "getting it" when you generally do not write in clear, complete sentences. The statements you've made about using the word "poly" really do not make much sense.

Perhaps you are so angry that your thoughts are coming out jumbled, or perhaps English is a second language for you. It's hard to tell. Either way - if you are truly asking for opinions and/or advice - at the very least, please be clear in what you are requesting and remain open to the fact that, on the world wide web, you will get many types of responses, and not all to your liking. Once you start a thread, you have no way to control how people respond. However, being rude by insulting, name-calling, or attacking anyone is not allowed here.
 
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Loving Radiance, ... from your example (nice BTW :), ...

ditch the whole poly(anything) then, describe what actually is instead of using a term that has no meaning what-so-flipping-ever :), got it :)

thanks
 
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