How to coexist with a monogamist?

Needingadvice22

New member
My relationship has been through many ups and downs, but I have been married for 17 years and I love my wife. We got married way too young and neither of us really knew who we were or what we wanted. At the time, I wanted to be a youth pastor and she wanted to be the dutiful stay at home mom. Fast forward 17 years and I'm closer to a Universalist Gnostic and I have finally realized who I am and not eager to go back to who I kept trying to be before. There are many other things that I have come to realize about myself over the years, but the major one is that I prefer polyamorous relationships. I haven't had one, being still married to a monogamist woman, but I am convinced that's what I would have if I had my preference. My view of love just doesn't have jealousy in it. That's not to say everybody doesn't feel jealous on occasion, but I see that more as a symptom if a problem in a relationship than a sign of love like many monogamists tend to. She is the type to get jealous if I tell another woman that she looks pretty today and I'm the type that if she told me she wanted to go on a date with this guy she met at work, and I thought it would make her happy, then I wouldn't just let her, I would encourage it. Then if want to hear all about it when she got home. So that makes our expressions of love very different. \
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Her idea of a loving man is a jealous man. Occasionally I pretend to be jealous just to put a smile on her face, but it's not genuine. For me, a huge way to show love is freedom. Not that I expect her to suddenly become poly, but just little freedoms make me feel loved. She tries to fake it and give me freedoms, but at the end if the day I can tell she is comfortable with very little and even though she is saying yes, she is in pain inside. It's been a struggle to say the least. \
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That leads me to my big question for this forum. I had some poly friends give me some advice before. I was at my whits end and decided to take it. They essentially said, "If you really feel this way, then tell her. Honesty always breeds more trust even if it isn't what she might want to hear." This resonated with me. I really want an honest sincere relationship even though I knew we were in no place to even open up that door in our relationship, I thought I would be completely honest with her and tell her about my preference. HUGE MISTAKE!!\
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That was over a year ago. Her trust for me has dropped even more than what it was. She was devastated. She just can't get over the idea that I would desire relationships and or sex with others if she allowed it. She can't even comprehend why I would be ok with her being with another man. To her it was a huge slap in the face and a big fat "I don't love you anymore" moment. Even though I expressed that I can live without that lifestyle if it means being with her, the damage was already done. She brings it up constantly. I so wish I could take it back. But now when she asks again, I can't lie. I can't say I wouldn't desire that. \
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What can I say? How can I make her understand that my desire to give her freedom is BECAUSE I love her and not because I don't. I feel like I'm losing her even though I have not once asked her or demanded that we actually have that kind of relationship.
 
I tend more toward monogamy than poly though I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a monogamist. I'm currently a leg in a V with my partner Blue as the hinge. It's not perfect, but I'm happier than I've been in my monogamous relationships. It's definitely possible to be mono in a poly relationship, imo. But, the key is that the mono partner needs to be open to it for it to be successful. Like you, I believe that freedom within the relationship is important. I view my relationship with Blue as two autonomous people choosing to love one another. It sounds like your wife's view is more along the lines of ownership?

If your wife is unwilling or unable to open her mind to other possible relationship configurations, then I think your choices are limited to accepting her view/staying in the marriage as it is, cheating (which I personally wouldn't consider the most loving/viable option but that doesn't make it any less of an option), or leaving the marriage. Would she be willing to work through this in counseling? Or read books on the subject?

If she isn't willing to work through this and work on her trust (because imo, you've done nothing wrong... just opened up yourself to her which is what partnership is about.) Honestly, it sounds like the subject may have already been chosen for you. Divorce is difficult (been through it after 20+ years together.) It is hard, but sometimes it's for the best so that we can be our true selves.
 
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Hi there, I am in exactly the same position as you except I am the wife. My husband didn't take it well either. If you want to read my whole story, it's all in the 'General' section of the forum on a thread called 'How do I even start to explain?' Not sure if it'll help you much but at least you can see how someone else's situation is playing out. You articulated exactly how I feel, that it's about freedom and love, not jealousy and ownership. It rocks the boat especially for those with a religious viewpoint.
 
I'm not sure what a leg in a V is. Sounds painful! (Sorry, I'm a really sarcastic person too. Yet another thing my wife never gets).

Thanks for the advice. I don't even expect her to be OK with me having other relationships. Just want her to understand that the desire doesn't change my love and desire for her. And yes, ownership is a good word for it. I've actually used that to describe to people my feelings on relationships. How I feel like I don't own her and she doesn't own me, but she tends to feel differently.
 
Hi there, I am in exactly the same position as you except I am the wife. My husband didn't take it well either. If you want to read my whole story, it's all in the 'General' section of the forum on a thread called 'How do I even start to explain?' Not sure if it'll help you much but at least you can see how someone else's situation is playing out. You articulated exactly how I feel, that it's about freedom and love, not jealousy and ownership. It rocks the boat especially for those with a religious viewpoint.

Thanks. I actually already read a little of it. And it did feel similar. I don't currently have that other relationship going on, but I've had those feelings before and had to push them aside eventually out if respect for my wife. But I definitely felt something for someone else before and specifically remember that when I did, it actually not only didn't change how I felt about my wife, but actually made my love for her stronger. It was a strange feeling that I didn't understand at the time. I had always been taught that any feelings outside the marriage would destroy your relationship. I have found whenever I have a crush on somebody else, even if it's from afar, it never affected my relationship at home.
 
I had always been taught that any feelings outside the marriage would destroy your relationship. I have found whenever I have a crush on somebody else, even if it's from afar, it never affected my relationship at home.

Same here! But my husband doesn't see it that way at all. I should have eyes for him and him alone. Unfortunately it's just not the way I work. And I've tried and tried.
 
Same here! But my husband doesn't see it that way at all. I should have eyes for him and him alone. Unfortunately it's just not the way I work. And I've tried and tried.

In my opinion that's an unrealistic expectation that leads to lies and a dishonest relationship. I remember days in the first 10 years of our marriage when even looking at the beauty of another woman was a slap in the face to my wife. I constantly had to look at the floor when I walked by a pretty girl just to keep her from thinking that I might be looking and be offended. That's like saying, don't look at that beautiful sunset. It just doesn't make sense. Beauty is beauty and it is irrational not to admire it. And it's biologically impossible as we are designed to desire sex. So now we as a society are basically putting on a pedestal a relationship desire that is inhuman, expecting each other to lie in order to maintain that level, and then wondering why the divorce rate is so high. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. lol
 
In my opinion that's an unrealistic expectation that leads to lies and a dishonest relationship. I remember days in the first 10 years of our marriage when even looking at the beauty of another woman was a slap in the face to my wife. I constantly had to look at the floor when I walked by a pretty girl just to keep her from thinking that I might be looking and be offended. That's like saying, don't look at that beautiful sunset. It just doesn't make sense. Beauty is beauty and it is irrational not to admire it. And it's biologically impossible as we are designed to desire sex. So now we as a society are basically putting on a pedestal a relationship desire that is inhuman, expecting each other to lie in order to maintain that level, and then wondering why the divorce rate is so high. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. lol

Preaching to the choir, although for me it's more about loving someone's soul, their heart, their 'them' rather than a sexual desire, but then I am pretty much demisexual so that makes sense.
 
Tough position to be in.

For me, this is one of the tricky things about marriage - you do promise to have eyes for only one person no matter what happens until one of you dies. Which is not, in my opinion, terribly realistic. Married and partnered people are then also encouraged to think of each other as their other half. No wonder people start to feel possessive. I'm pretty possessive of all the parts of me. If I included another human being as a part of me, I'd be pretty possessive of that person too.

Like you I tend not to be terribly jealous of sexual/romantic partners. I do experience jealousy but no more so than I do if friends of mine go out and have dinner without me or if a very close friend meets somebody new and special to them. I'm the oldest in a family that had 3 children. I didn't like sharing with my siblings and I don't particularly like sharing as an adult. But - I recognise that it is necessary and I've had a lifetime of practise of dealing with those feelings sensibly so I'm good at it.

I don't feel like I own my partner, Art and - crucially - I don't feel like he owns me. I don't owe it to him to change my lifestyle to suit his lifestyle. We are separate people and if our wants from life became incompatible, I would expect us to transition back to being friends. We talk about it regularly.

We both meet new, exciting people. Sometimes one or other of us might describe our feelings as love. Art has met a woman recently who he admires immensely. He told me that when he read a book she'd written, he fell in love with her. Feelings are feelings and they happen when they do.

Poly is relevant here because Art would prefer a poly relationship. I am not up for it. For a couple of reasons.

1. I value my freedom immensely and the times in my life I have felt and been most free have been when I'm single. Without a romantic partner, there is nobody in my life that I feel I need to speak to before I make big decisions. I can please myself. One romantic relationship is enough. I have absolutely zero desire to have another partner to consider or for Art to have another partner who's needs and wishes must be considered. That does not sound freeing to me.

2. It seems to me that it's a lot of work to do poly ethically and more work to do it ethically while in a romantic relationship. I'm not into relationship work as a past time so for me to consider poly, it would likely be solo poly. Right now, that would mean dissolving a lovely relationship which I hope will continue for years to come.

So - it comes down to Art having a monogamous relationship with me. Or being my friend and pursuing the relationship shape he would prefer. He does not own me and so I am under no obligation to have a relationship that I would feel less free in just because he doesn't share my views. Just as he is under no obligation to do the same with me.

For the moment, things work between us. We seem to have reached a place where we both experience our connection as positive and supportive. It's something that we want to continue. That might well change in the future - who knows?

For me, not owning or being owned means being free to make choices about relationship shapes. If your wife prefers very strict monogamy of the sort where admiring a sexy woman isn't okay and you aren't up for that - I think it's okay to call yourselves incompatible and find a way to dissolve your union in as painless way as possible.

Doesn't mean anybody is bad or has done something wrong. Just different ways of looking at the world.

IP
 
Preaching to the choir, although for me it's more about loving someone's soul, their heart, their 'them' rather than a sexual desire, but then I am pretty much demisexual so that makes sense.

I've only seen the word "demisexual" once before, but upon seeing this word a second time I decided to "google" the term. I found this:


What is Demisexuality?

Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which someone feels sexual attraction only to people with whom they have an emotional bond. Most demisexuals feel sexual attraction rarely compared to the general population, and some have little to no interest in sexual activity. -- http://demisexuality.org/articles/what-is-demisexuality/


Oh. Interesting. I seem to lean in the direction of "demisexual," but I'm actually physically and sexually attracted to lots of people, including people I've not spent enough time with to form a close emotional bond.

(I say "physically and sexually" because I can enjoy non-sexual sensual intimacy (e.g., cuddling, sensual massage) about as much as sex -- and these can be two different kinds of relationship for me. Great -- intense -- shared sensual intimacy, for me, need not result in what we commonly think of as sexual activity.)

I'm not quite demisexual, but I overwhelmingly prefer to be physically and sexually intimate with people with whom I'm exploring an actual intimate relationship of some kind -- and, for me, that necessarily includes emotional intimacy. It also probably incudes other kinds of intimacy -- intellectual, spiritual, ... shared pleasures and activties.... My preference for including other forms of intimacy and ongoing relationship is at about a 90% level. Perhaps higher. But I could get naked and "nasty" with someone I may not be able to form a lasting bond with, if I really like him or her a lot. Mere physical attractiveness (as appearance) is not enogh to decide such things. And I think this is what differentiates me from a lot of men (perhaps especially bi and gay men).


_____________


Here's a fascinating list to contemplate:


Heteromantic homosexuals
Homoromantic heterosexuals
Biromantic heterosexuals
Biromantic homosexuals
Heteromantic bisexuals
Homoromantic bisexuals
Aromantic heterosexuals
Aromantic homosexuals
Aromantic bisexuals
Panromantic heterosexuals
Panromantic homosexuals
Panromantic bisexuals
Heteromantic pansexuals
Homoromantic pansexuals
Biromantic pansexuals
Aromantic pansexuals

https://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/tag/nonsexual-romance/
 
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I'm not sure what a leg in a V is. Sounds painful! (Sorry, I'm a really sarcastic person too. Yet another thing my wife never gets).

Thanks for the advice. I don't even expect her to be OK with me having other relationships. Just want her to understand that the desire doesn't change my love and desire for her. And yes, ownership is a good word for it. I've actually used that to describe to people my feelings on relationships. How I feel like I don't own her and she doesn't own me, but she tends to feel differently.

A leg in a V is just one of the two people who are dating the same person. So, I'm dating Blue, he's also dating Silver. Blue is the hinge in the V because he's in relationship with each of us, Silver & I are legs.

I don't personally think it's possible to make someone else see something that they don't want to or can't understand. But, the truth is, she doesn't really have to understand it. She just has to be willing to listen to your heart and consider that just because she doesn't understand how you can love someone else and still love her, doesn't mean it isn't possible. The question is, is she willing to do that?
 
Thanks for some of the advice guys. I just typed up a 5 page manifesto about our relationship. Talked about definitions of love, sex, raising our children, our differing desires for you we are perceived by the public, and the poly thing too. Wish me luck. I hope it helps. If it doesn't, then I'm not gonna sit on the fence forever. I told her it's time to either live out an authentic, sincere and honest relationship where we both respect each other's needs, or move on. The open relationship is a desire. But authenticity is a need and something I can no longer live without.
 
Thanks. I actually already read a little of it. And it did feel similar. I don't currently have that other relationship going on, but I've had those feelings before and had to push them aside eventually out if respect for my wife. But I definitely felt something for someone else before and specifically remember that when I did, it actually not only didn't change how I felt about my wife, but actually made my love for her stronger. It was a strange feeling that I didn't understand at the time. I had always been taught that any feelings outside the marriage would destroy your relationship. I have found whenever I have a crush on somebody else, even if it's from afar, it never affected my relationship at home.

The trap of traditional monogamy goes something like this. They pin the responsibility of destroying the relationship on the person with the wandering eyes and heart, however what really destroys the relationship is the childish selfish response from the angry jealous partner. Imagine those circumstances mirrored onto childhood. Suppose you win at a game, this causes your friend to be jealous and a sore loser. He then accuses you of hurting your friendship because you won the game. As a result he tries to get you to force to an agreement so you promise to never win at a game again so as to spare him those hurtful feelings. It puts all of the blame on the wrong party for hurting the relationship. This is exactly what traditional Christian monogamy is. It puts the onus on each spouse to not make the other spouse a jealous little child.
 
Hi Needingadvice22,

Re (from OP):
"What can I say? How can I make her understand that my desire to give her freedom is *because* I love her and not because I don't?"

I don't think you can. :( The ball is in her court. She can understand it if she chooses to -- it's not up to you.

There is certainly reading she could do -- if she's willing. Franklin Veaux has a great FAQ page for those new to poly and struggling to wrap their minds around it.

Re (from Post #13):
"I just typed up a five-page manifesto about our relationship. Talked about definitions of love, sex, raising our children, our differing desires for how we are perceived by the public, and the poly thing too."

That might work! :) Keep us posted.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
That FAQ section was awesome. Wish I would have read that before I wrote that letter. My wife has asked for time to process everything I said so I still have no idea what her thoughts are other than that she still loves me and didn't kick me out of the house yet.
 
Sometimes you have to admit to not being compatible. My ex's answer to poly was his desire for a triad ( more likely he liked the idea of a woman on each arm) ultimately it came down to I wanted freedom to be me (and I pushed for this for years) I left him, he wanted me to stay, I gave him the option to share, he chose not to participate and so we were done.

Just like I didn't want to be monogamous with him, he didn't want to share me therefore we just weren't right for each other. You could try to persuade her but what if she continues to say no? How much is it worth to you?
 
Sometimes you have to admit to not being compatible. My ex's answer to poly was his desire for a triad ( more likely he liked the idea of a woman on each arm) ultimately it came down to I wanted freedom to be me (and I pushed for this for years) I left him, he wanted me to stay, I gave him the option to share, he chose not to participate and so we were done.

Just like I didn't want to be monogamous with him, he didn't want to share me therefore we just weren't right for each other. You could try to persuade her but what if she continues to say no? How much is it worth to you?

At this point all I desire is open communication and for her to seek to understand me. I don't need her to agree to anything. I just want the authenticity we have never had in our 17 years of marriage. We don't talk about the difficult things. We don't talk about sex, because I'm a slut and she is a prude. We don't talk about a lot of things. Anything that makes her uncomfortable, which is a lot of things, I get stonewalled
 
That is not much relating in 17 years then. Like "back and forth" relating. It sounds like you mostly having a one-way relationship. :(


If it doesn't, then I'm not gonna sit on the fence forever. I told her it's time to either live out an authentic, sincere and honest relationship where we both respect each other's needs, or move on. The open relationship is a desire. But authenticity is a need and something I can no longer live without.

Good for you -- you sound clear and firm of purpose.

I hope the next conversations go well.

I hope for both of you that she becomes more willing to work on her ability to communicate better. It's a skill grown by doing. It's not going to grow sitting around unused.

Galagirl
 
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Re (from Needingadvice22):
"My wife has asked for time to process everything I said so I still have no idea what her thoughts are other than that she still loves me and didn't kick me out of the house yet."

Well, that's something, right. It sounds like you just want more/better communication with her for now.
 
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