Drama reduction

1234567

New member
Looking for options here.

I have two people among the approximately 5 I date, both of whom I love dearly, who are both having "interesting" times with where they want to be with me versus where their nesting partners want. Both metamours are more mono in action than them. Both partners have made offers to me of things that are serious boyfriend/girlfriend-like, as in vacations, extra time that is not during their partners' absence, or stepping in with health issues. With both of them, I've been sometimes let know (and a lot recently) that the offer they made has caused conflict to carry it out severe enough that what we planned may not happen. Sometimes it doesn't. Mainly, the issue is communication between the original couples not being sufficient. With both of them, I'm a unprecedentedly deep poly partner for the current main relationship they have, and am challenging the edges. One is with a mono spouse and my partner dedicated to her as primary, with as deep a relationship with me as he can: the other would like a more even relationship in terms of two primaries while remaining nesting partners with his other person.

Thing is, I'm getting burnt out. It would be hard enough with one; two at once in a short span with this dynamic of steps towards closeness followed by drama is draining more than I feel is good for me. Yet, both are going to bat for what they want with me (for their sake and mine) trying, and communicating.

Because it's relevant, this is what I want:

At least one deeper partner in life to do things with such as vacations, more time, intertwining lives, help with emergencies, etc.

To be able to trust and know that a "yes" is not a "yes, unless a big enough fuss is made." This is big with me. I'm losing patience.

To not put partners in the middle of a power struggle. (As much as it depends on me.)

For my partners to get the life they want, with me or without me

For me to get the life I want, with or without my partners.

A good situation for my kids, which currently, dating mainly during their time with their dad and not having a live-in partner is.

-----

So a heavily poly situation works because I gain kid-time when my partner is away. But not a drama-filled one. I think I owe it to all of us, kids, partners, and metamours, to be a minimizing force in the drama there

It seems there's some kind of limit I need to set. But I also want to let them feel free to take risks and make mistakes and try things out and come across the limits in their other relationships, and think with how new the situation is, that this is necessary.

So, I'm looking at options on how to protect my heart while giving them freedom to try for what they want- their primary partner and me.

All the ones I can think of fail.

I can back off - but I don't want that. I save that for big things, and this isn't there.

I can say "I only want you to agree to do what your partner agrees to" - but I feel that feeds power struggles in one case, and the other doesn't know what she wants until it happens.

I can go mono- but I love these guys and this life.

I can look elsewhere for my needs to be met- but they are met pretty well now, and I like (and love or feel I will grow to love) my partners I'm dating, and am polysaturated. I can't imagine dating more until some people get eliminated, unless someone really hits the top for me, and honestly, I have the top already in my 5. Several times, at least; possibly all with time.

I can just do stress management, and let the stress be there. This may be my best bet. But other ideas?
 
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I suppose I could actually say "this steps towards closeness followed by drama is coming from multiple sources, and is draining on me, and anything you can do to help this would be appreciated...." It may help to have my issue so clearly named and then let go of whatever happens, trusting my partners to do what they can and knowing I can choose to respond to the situation in the moment of it comes up again however it feel right and have the context for why already there. But I do already feel everyone is doing their best.....
 
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One thing you might be able to do to simplify things is to choose. By that I mean, you feel like you have room for one more serious vacation-takey relationship in your life, yet here you have two partners potentially trying to move heaven and earth to achieve a closer bond with you. Who do you feel more compatible with in terms of your desires for a more in depth connection? If you can actually turn to one of them and say that you love them, but no, you are not up for more than what you currently have with them, then that solves that end of the equation. As long as you are making decisions based on your compatibility, and not their likely availability in terms of nesting partner stuff (hard to separate out, I'm sure) then I think this is probably the most honest and reasonable course of action to take.
 
Thank you - I think, where I come from, I don't want to limit myself to one vacationy-type partner. I'd need to have someone negotiating for that kind of exclusivity with me to ever want to even consider having that kind of exclusivity in a poly relationship.

I think that's what's happening with my partners. Their partners are negotiating for exclusivity with them that neither feels. I think their partners have the right to say "I only want to (can be) be close to you if I'm in a relationship that has this level of exclusivity", or variations, like acknowledging "I can't be in a relationship without this kind of exclusivity, (either now or forever, whichever it is).

I have the right to say "I'm not comfortable being in a relationship that has this level of lack of freedom", and all the variations: "I'm able to tolerate this short-term, but not forever" to "I only want to )can be) in a relationship where we have this sort of freedom and autonomy"

I think I'm wanting to but refraining from negotiating for a freedom that neither of my partners feels.

I think I'm refraining because it would be a shit storm. And I think, in reality, it's the hinge's decision what kind of freedom they are willing to go to bat for. I think either of us pushing the other towards what *we* want is going to cause drama.

But then, there is an inherent drama in "I want this and they want that".

My opinion? Having someone on each side of your life -freedom versus autonomy, or any sort of dilemma can be a place where the stability to is found in learning and going with what you want. I think successful hinging is figure out "what is good for me" in these conflicts and sticking to it. I think it can be a place of great empowerment.

That gives me pause. It makes me see that I'm only going to get what I would like from my people- stability, peace, and acts of closeness- if there is a great degree in compatibility with what they believe a relationship can and should be, and the ability to stand up for it. Or my metamour believes as I do, and it is also a comfortable place for the hinge.

I think there can be beliefs such as "vacations are for nesting couples only" "limited reaources should be spent on outside relarionships (including time as well as money)" "support should flow mainly to the nesting couplein times of choice" that can make or break the success as a polygroup,

I think I'm unusual in I don't need nesting at this moment for a close relationship - in fact, I see advantages to separateness. But I still want some of the hallmarks of closeness that come naturally with exclusivity and nesting, and this really messes with most models of poly. Someone really has to be off the escalator, or alternatively, with a partner who believes as I do, or having a relationship-defining-relationship with me to go there. (I think a relarionship defining relationship is usually the one that opens up. Ideally, our relationship-defining relarionships should be with ourselves, I think, but it's not often so.)
 
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I'm not sure that I understand what you're getting at, but I think it might be something like a phase I had in my late twenties-early thirties. I kept meeting people who were either new to poly or practiced a rather couple-centric form which restricted the depth of outside relationships. Over and over again, I became "That Metamour": the one who came and changed all the rules. The one that caused their partner to no longer be happy with the set up they had and push for more. It became drama filled hell and despite it ever really blowing up on me, I felt horrible. I felt like a home wrecker. I had to stop finding new to poly partners, or partners with a mono spouse because it became too much. Mow I won't completely rule them out, but I do screen partnered people more vigorously than single people.
 
Here are my beliefs surrounding nesting couples in poly. Interested in feedback.

Each person in a nesting group has the responsibility to maintain the things and reaposibilities they hold in common to a fair and reasonable degree (home, kid raising, parent care, finances)

Each person has the responsibility to put time and effort into the things that maintain them as a couple/group, and set the relationship up for success.

In a poly couple or group, each has the responsibility to work on and manage their own emotions to see things through the lens of "is my own relationship satisfying me?" rather than "is so and so getting more than me"

Each person is responsible to manage the time outside of what they need for happiness in the nesting relationship to create happiness for themselves. One of those things may be to be supportive of outside relationships, and find joy in them, whether from compersion or involvement. At the very least, they should be responsible for their own sake in finding peace.

.....

I'm not sure I see a relationship that's non-nesting as different. Only, you take on less responsibilities together, usually.
 
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Max, that is helpful. Thank you for the solidarity. You sure put into words what I'm feeling right now!
 
And I think that is the answer in drama-reduction- better screening in the future. Because I love this group, metamours and all, and supporting them going through growth right now is part of supporting them. It's notable these were my first poly relationships, and my later relarionships have been in different, more advanced places with me turning down several potentially dramatic relarionships in the meantime, so I do think the filters are probably starting to work, and this might be, like with Max, a phase.
 
I am sorry you are struggling with inner conflict about speaking up or being silent.

I think you are pretty clear in what you want and don't want. You just aren't saying it right now.

The main thing seems to be this:

To be able to trust and know that a "yes" is not a "yes, unless a big enough fuss is made." This is big with me. I'm losing patience.


So go ahead and speak up. "Don't ask me out until you have sorted it all out at home. Please stop asking me out prematurely. I do not like accepting and then you back out because you didn't sort things out at home."

Then they are free to sort out whatever at home while giving you freedom from hearing about it. By the time it gets to asking you out it should all be sorted.

And start counting. Pick whatever number -- 3, 4. Because people need some time to change a bad habit. But you aren't going to be putting up with it for 50, 100, 500 more times, right? Especially since you also want to be having one main partner to vacation with. Seems logical to not pick the ones who flake out on dates. Start weeding out the unreliable people. They may be willing, but not actually able. So... not a runner. Keep things easier on you.

I'm wanting to a freedom that neither of my partners feels. (I refrain from bringing it up because it would be a shit storm.)

I think you could advocate for your wants and needs politely. People need to be made aware. They cannot mind reader you. If it works out and you have compatible wants, great. If not, bummer -- but not the end of the world.

Don't let your soft feelings for them because they were your first poly relationships blind you to the fact that at the PRESENT moment... this is an area where they could improve.

Anticipating shit storm doom so you do not advocate for yourself and negotiate at all? That's fear stuff.

I think the responsibilities you list are reasonable. If they apply to all people in this polyship, that includes you.

Are you meeting these responsibilities in your dyad?

  • I have the responsibility to put time and effort into the things that maintain (me+partner) as a couple, and set the relationship up for success. (Being silent about things you do not like sets things up for success how?)
  • In the (me +partner) dyad, I have the responsibility to work on and manage my own emotions (predicting shit storm doom=fear) to see things through the lens of "is my own relationship satisfying me?" (you already state you are not happy with "yes" being flaky. But you refrain from speaking up because of emotional fear response... that is managing your emotions how? )

This is one of your wants:

For me to get the life I want, with or without my partners.

The life you want isn't going to come by magic. You create it. Partially by speaking up about your wants and sorting things out one way or another. And that behavior DOES support your greater want to get the life you want. So I encourage you do more of that speaking up behavior and less holding back. Answer to your higher values and beliefs. Not to fear.

Galagirl
 
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I'm admittedly new to poly (less than 2 years), but I think you just need to clearly state what you're looking for. I think this all sounds reasonable and is a good place to start:

To be able to trust and know that a "yes" is a "yes"

To not put partners in the middle of a power struggle.

For my partners to get the life they want, with me or without me

For me to get the life I want, with or without my partners.

I agree with GalaGirl, these partners may or may not be willing to meet your needs. In the end, that's what it comes down to: the hinge (your partners) desire to make you a priority in their lives. Their partners' (your metamores) only have as much control over your partners as they allow them to have. If their other relationships are bleeding over into yours, then that's definitely a hinge issue.

I think this is just a case of you communicating your needs, establishing your boundaries and enforcing them. If your partners are unwilling to make you a priority in their lives (and deal with the fall out that causes with their other relationship), then it's up to you to decide whether the limited relationship that they're capable of is tenable to you or not. In the end, to accomplish this:
For me to get the life I want, with or without my partners.
you may decide that "without my partners" is the best option.
 
Hi 1234567,

Re (from OP):
"To be able to trust and know that a 'yes' is not a 'Yes, unless a big enough fuss is made.' This is big with me. I'm losing patience."

Could this be accomplished by the two people you're talking about not telling you "yes" unless they know they can follow through with it?

Like GalaGirl was saying.

And I agree that you shouldn't let your fear of a shitstorm convince you to keep quiet about what you want and need.

Just my 2¢,
Kevin T.
 
This isn't completely true. Especially for someone new to poly. All our lives (most of us) we have been told that simply desiring someone other than your spouse pretty much makes you a bad person. So, permission from your spouse to even go on a date with someone else seems like they are giving you the world. Wanting more than that just seems greedy and selfish from a mononormative perspective. Taking a weekend away to play golf with friends is seen as a luxury. Taking a weekend away to stay with a extra martial partner is seen as irresponsible and neglectful. It takes time for some new to poly people to understand that it's okay to ask and is okay to go if everyone involved consents.
 
Kevin, I asked for that; it seems that these situations are a bit unavoidable because of a combination of miscommunication and disagreement on what areas need to be exclusive,
Combined with the natural forward momentum of my relationships leading me and my partners not to be okay with having exclusivity applied to m.

MadNax, any tips on how to handle that inevitable trajectory towards a different poly shape from the catalyst point of view?
 
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