Men vs. Women and "poly"

There is an asshole in every crowd. Usually plenty of them, too. ;)
So far, experience has shown that the crowd is all a-holes with one or possibly two decent guys mixed in for good measure. Current ratio for us: 25 a-holes just trying to get laid...to....zero decent guys looking for an actual poly relationship. :( This is just our experience though.



And this ratio is not to say that my wife has SLEPT with them....we have screened all but one out. The one, got past the screening process by actually going through the motions of a relationship at first. Went out on multipul dates....courted my wife....etc. Then, they slept together a couple times, and he just started making himself scarce and unavailable. The whole time, he was not actively persuing my wife, but my wife was persuing him. She pointed out that she chased ME when we were dating, and that he was just quiet. I told her I was just concerned and let it go. Then, after they had slept together a few times, he just started ignoring her texts and calls. He refused to speak with her. She was hurt....but she got over it. She came to the realization that guys are generally the same. They are wired to obtain pussy. at all cost. If a woman wants a relationship, they'll fake it until they get the punanny. As much and as varying as possible. Now, not ALL guys are like this. I'm not, for example. Most of the guys, who are active on this forum, are probably not. But...generally speaking....they are.

So in a sea of a-holes, there will be a few....VERY few....quality mackerels. ;) While not as rare as the elusive unicorn, they are still few and far between.
 
So you believe I am a anomaly then ?

I have dated from one side of my country to the other, also dated some people outside of my country. So I don`t see it as even a geographical thing. I`m nothing out of the ordinary as a person. I`m not a swedish supermodel, and I put my leg in my pants one size 7 foot at a time.

So I can`t be a magical, mythical princess.

25 men are ALL assholes ?

Lets say that is true. Every single one was a douchebag. Your and your Mrs. radar is on spot and every guy you attempted with, was a complete fuckknob.


Do you remember that saying about being the common denominator, in any group ?
Example :
If I have 10 people who are all pissed off with me, whats the common denominator in the group ? ME.

Now,..that doesn`t automatically make me wrong, anymore then it does you. There is however a responsibility to myself to sit back and take note of how I handled myself to get to a point, where I pissed off 10 people. Maybe it`s justified, maybe it`s not. People don`t like thinking outside the box, no matter how much they say they do. There are a billion variables, right ?

The one thing I DO know, is that the one thing I can mold, control, and work on,..is ME.

My unsolicited advice is to take the time to reassess your protocol and screening process. Also take the time to figure out what type of image you are projecting. We do attract to us, what energies we put out.
If you don`t like 100% of the males you attract, it`s time to take internal stock, and figure out why.

I cannot even agree that MOST men are douchebags. Thats a cop-out.

I can give you a self-example as well. As I mentioned before, half of all 'try for sex' contact I get, is from the female of a couple, hoping to befriend me, and get my guard down for some 3some desire she has with her man. Is this a bad thing ? No. It`s only a bad thing, if I tell them I have zero interest and they persist.

I have taken stock on why I attract that type of couple. I do understand my pictures, and 'playful' type of profiles that I write, are probably responsible for their hopefulness. I have made the decision to tone myself down a little, but ultimately, I like how I present myself, so I don`t blame them for wanting things.
I have choices. If I ever decided I want to attract couples, I would do a thorough inventory of how I present myself. I`d probably also NOT explicity state I was looking for that. Things tend to work better, when you people watch, and approach someone who isn`t 'on the hunt'.

Anyhow,..only my thoughts as someone who does not think most men are a-holes.
 
i used to think the same thing about women, "all women are catty back-stabbers who are only interested in superficial, self-serving relationships with other women."

i never had to "take stock of myself" however because i just met more women and quite a few turned out not to be like that. my initial prejudices were formed in the "townie high-school" milieu, and as soon as i bothered to expand my horizons a wee li'l bit, that pattern of thought was neutralized.

this is why it pisses me off when women say they "can't" connect with or be in friendships or relationships with other women.

i agree that if you are doing something a certain way and do not like the results you are getting, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the way you go about doing things. unless your life is so great that you need to instill a certain degree of "failure" into it in order to feel that you have achieved "balance", or whatever...
 
I cannot even agree that MOST men are douchebags. Thats a cop-out.
Here, here! I agree wholeheartedly.

It takes two to keep a war going, but only one to stop it.

So, if there's a war between the sexes going on in my life, I look around and ask what I am doing to keep it going. And why I attract certain types of people and treatment. It's up to me to stop that war and not tolerate behaviors that result in my feeling less-than or taken advantage of.
 
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So you believe I am a anomaly then ?
Possibly. But I really don't know you well yet.



25 men are ALL assholes ?
Yes. It's quite simple. I'll explain PART of the screening process later in this post.

Do you remember that saying about being the common denominator, in any group ?
Example :
If I have 10 people who are all pissed off with me, whats the common denominator in the group ? ME.
So you're saying that my wife and I are in the wrong, and we should lower our a-hole standards? Not gonna happen. Sorry.

My unsolicited advice is to take the time to reassess your protocol and screening process.
Here is the rough outline of the screening process:

Guy initiates contact......if at any point within the first two weeks of contact, he asks for nude photo's of my wife, then it's off, because we know he's just in it for the sex.

If, after a couple weeks, he tries to get her to go alone with him (AFTER she has explained that we ALWAYS go on the first few dates together) then it's off.....He's not willing to abide by the rules set forth.

If at any time, the guy doesn't wish to abide by my WIFE'S rules, then it's off. We have the rules in place for safety reasons only. I have no jealousy issues...My wife does from time to time, but I rarely have those issues. It has bitten me before, so I won't say I "never" have them....but when I do, I let her know I'm not comfortable with that...and she stops.

Also take the time to figure out what type of image you are projecting. We do attract to us, what energies we put out.
Oddly enough, I have found that opposites attract.
If you don`t like 100% of the males you attract, it`s time to take internal stock, and figure out why.
It's not that...I LIKED my wife's last bf....he just turned out to be a guy that was only out for sex too. So...At that point, he's an a-hole.



Anyhow,..only my thoughts as someone who does not think most men are a-holes.
I have run out of time this morning to respond....But will try to later. I appreciate your thoughts on this subject though, and it breaths more life into me about men.
 
I have found that it is very easy to "catch" most men who are pretending to be poly in order to find sex with a poly woman. A simple "What is a book about polyamory that you have read, or hope to read?" or "What's the name of our national organization?" will usually leave them flailing.


You could ask me the same questions and I wouldn't know the answers.... not because I'm not poly (I have been for years) but because I've only just found the poly world/ community outside my relationships. What I've learned about poly has come from mostly from a cousin who is poly and my textbooks (I have a BS in Child and Family Studies).
 
These are valid fears many women encounter. Is a married poly woman who is dedicated to her mono husband considered as easy or a slut for having thoughts of dating/sleeping with other men and/or women? Is it wrong to flirt and be flirted with?

I have found that most single men don't agree with taking it to the next level with a married woman. Flirting is okay, but nothing more than that. Those are my observations.

My husband is a great guy, but he has trouble finding anyone who is willing to be in a relationship with a married man. It doesn't matter that they know he's in an open marriage, if not poly; he's married and therefore off the list.... and this is even after I've talked to some of them. And I know that it hurts him to start down the path of creating a relationship with someone only to be slapped down repeatedly while I get offers all the time and I'm not even looking. I'm so happy with him, my b/f, and his wife that I couldn't imagine adding another relationship to my list right now, but I realize that she doesn't meet his needs and he's not bisexual enough for the b/f to meet them either. She's extremely introverted and has issues with sex that she's working on, but until then I'm trying to meet the sexual needs for both of my guys and she's trying to make an effort to spend more time with all of us.
 
TL4everU2 :

Details of your screening process really doesn`t matter.

That is your business. The point is,....how`s it working out for ya ? Not worth shit. So it`s time for a new screening process.

I never said to lower your standards. I never even hinted at you lowering them. I meant CHANGE is needed.
YOU( united-you.) are the common denominator to all the crappy meets.

I have no idea if your wife`s boyfriend was actually in it for the sex or not. Could of been a jerk, just as you say. Though it raised a few questions, reading that. If he was in it for the sex, with a married woman, he would of kept her as a booty-call type,..don`t you think ?
Since he just took off, ...( but was really into her beforehand ? ), then that sounds like something about the situation came up and he bailed. Could be something as simple as fear. Who knows ?

Anyhow, only you two know that answer, not measely-me guessing on a message board. Something to think about though.
 
I'm learning that the men who are deeply interested in me eventually get freaked out that I am in a relationship with another man but interested in taking it to the next level with them. Each of these men, who I've known for many years, have allowed themselves to build strong connections with me. Then almost overnight, each of them backed off. It became too real for them, I think. I find this fascinating, yet it also made me feel sad and alone when I was eventually rejected simply because of my 'availability' status. I am too proud of a woman to continue to pursue true relationships with each of them simply because they were too bold when they broke off the emotional relationship side of it so soon. So, I remain friends with one and hope that the other (the one I'm truly crazy for) will eventually talk to me again. I just want to feel loved, and I know they do too. It's been a difficult, yet unique, learning experience with how complicated mono/polyamory works.
 
Thinking of my last post, I think I really need to step away from this computer and join the physical world with like-minded individuals who will accept me for me, and share love with me the way I would like to share back.

Interesting.
 
So you're saying that my wife and I are in the wrong, and we should lower our a-hole standards? Not gonna happen.
The common denominator can simply be that both of you hold the same belief: that most men are assholes. When someone goes through your screening process, you already have a "chip on your shoulder" are are daring them to knock it off. That attitude attracts certain types. People who don't go around in the world feeling they have anything to prove, who are genuine or non-combative, aren't going to be drawn to that energy.

Therefore, it's not necessarily about lowering your standards, but about changing... something - indeed, most likely your beliefs. Years ago, a teacher of mine used to say, "We live in the atmosphere of our beliefs; if you don't like the atmosphere, change your beliefs." I wonder how different it would be if you two invested more in the belief that all people are inherently good, and that the right person will come along? It's not magic (and yet it is). When you face the world with an embrace instead of just waiting for the next asshole you have to give the boot to, your energy will attract a whole different set of people. That's how I see it, anyway.
 
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personally, i think the OP comes across as an "a-hole" on here, so i find it not very surprising the things he says about "all other" men.

I'm not saying T *IS* an asshole; i don't know him well enough. but if I were using this forum to "screen" people, I'd probably write him off as one.

JMO and speaking as myself not as a moderator...
 
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Therefore, it's not necessarily about lowering your standards, but about changing... something - indeed, most likely your beliefs. Years ago, a teacher of mine used to say, "We live in the atmosphere of our beliefs; if you don't like the atmosphere, change your beliefs." I wonder how different it would be if you two invested more in the belief that all people are inherently good, and that the right person will come along? It's not magic (and yet it is). When you face the world with an embrace instead of just waiting for the next asshole you have to give the boot to, your energy will attract a whole different set of people. That's how I see it, anyway.

I love that quote nycindie, thank you for sharing it. Smart Teacher :)

You make great points too.
 
Oh, and the one-penis policy? Any woman who puts up with it in her relationships should ask herself, "Why does my man think it's less serious, less threatening, doesn't "count," as much when I am with a woman as when I am with a man? Could he be sending me a message that women themselves just don't matter as much as men?"

Whether it's fair or not, I think the answer to this can have a lot more to do with insecurity than misogyny. If you want to be with another woman then you want something that your male SO is incapable of offering. Therefore it is not a judgement on him; his manliness is not deficient. You simply want something that he can't offer. ALSO, he offers you something that SHE can't offer. She CAN'T satisfy the same desires he does (even if they are merely certain sexual ones) therefore, in a very real sense, she IS less of a threat than a fellow man. For many men, their significant other wanting or being with another man is, to them, a sign that they are somehow deficient. That they aren't enough. Theoretically, as a fellow man, they SHOULD be able to offer you everything this other guy does and it can hurt that they don't. Women do not reflect thusly on their own self image.

Remember, men aren't just pigs. They do have feelings, even if society makes them really uncomfortable with sharing them. And that means they have fears, concerns, and insecurities, too. And no matter how many logical arguments you may have for why they *shouldn't* feel a certain way, that doesn't invalidate the fact that they DO.
 
Whether it's fair or not, I think the answer to this can have a lot more to do with insecurity than misogyny. If you want to be with another woman then you want something that your male SO is incapable of offering. Therefore it is not a judgement on him; his manliness is not deficient. You simply want something that he can't offer. ALSO, he offers you something that SHE can't offer. She CAN'T satisfy the same desires he does (even if they are merely certain sexual ones) therefore, in a very real sense, she IS less of a threat than a fellow man. For many men, their significant other wanting or being with another man is, to them, a sign that they are somehow deficient. That they aren't enough. Theoretically, as a fellow man, they SHOULD be able to offer you everything this other guy does and it can hurt that they don't. Women do not reflect thusly on their own self image.

Remember, men aren't just pigs. They do have feelings, even if society makes them really uncomfortable with sharing them. And that means they have fears, concerns, and insecurities, too. And no matter how many logical arguments you may have for why they *shouldn't* feel a certain way, that doesn't invalidate the fact that they DO.
I like that line especially. It should be said for anyone though. You can tell people why they shouldn't the way they are, but it helps nothing. They are that way. Just being supportive and talking through it Could ease their feelings and help them understand.
 
Precisely.

If a woman steals my wife from me, there is nothing I could have done. She's a lesbian, and has realized it too late in life to avoid the mistake of marrying a man. It may hurt, but it doesn't really have anything to do with me.

If my wife leaves me for another MAN, though...I am not a good enough man to have kept her. I am deficient in some way, and that is a hurt that cannot be overcome through any means I currently posses.

That said, I don't have the described policy. I allow my wife other male partners.

Yeah. It scares the hell out of me sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes it makes me feel less worthwhile or less important.

Luckily, my wife knows that these are potential pitfalls and works to address them. She has free reign with women because I have been down this road with her before, and I *know* that her attraction to them isn't based on any bioligical or romantic imperative; she thinks that they are pretty. She'd never leave me for one. They don't register as a threat on my radar.

Men, as I described above, do. It's scary and requires a lot of soul-searching and a lot of self-awareness. These men you describe may not be there yet. They may not ever be there, in fact. I feel that calling them "pigs" or saying that they "only care about getting laid" is repugnant and offensive.

As a member of a MFMF quad, I am perhaps the single person in the relationship that cares the MOST about equality and cares the LEAST about "getting laid."

I'm a man. Books. Covers. Ever heard that one?
 
Ironically, I don't view anyone as a threat for my wife, because I trust in her completely and her love in me. I would never want to be non-monogamist without that trust. She ain't leaving me for anyone, unless I mess up bad enough for her to want to leave me.

As for men being pigs, I give up. Too many judgmental people here to really explain the differences. I will write it again, and this is far from gender oriented.

Some people need love to have sex
Some people have sex to find love

Suck it up people. One type of love searcher is not better than the other. I know enough women who do this too to know it has nothing to do with gender, they are just don't seem to get judged in the same way for their behavior. They get the slut label, men get the pig label. In both cases, people labeling them, are being far to judgmental for their own good.
 
Arak,

Yeah. People have a tendency to believe that they're inherently correct in all that they do. I get that. What I don't get is people deciding arbitrarily that this means that everyone else is wrong. Pretty much what you said, that people are very judgmental and draw these lines in the sand that don't really need to be drawn.

I don't really judge. Who am I to judge anyone? I don't even believe that *I* have it right most of the time.

I'm glad for you that you're in a place where anxiety doesn't affect you. Me, though, I'm a person that is constantly beset by some fear or another. It's a part of who I am that I can't (and won't) overcome, as it is as fundamental to me as any traditionally good quality, and is equally important to the mural that my family loves.

I'm not embarrassed by feeling threatened. I'm not afraid to admit that sometimes I'm afraid, and that there's a dark voice in my heart that tells me that my wife and my girlfriend will leave me alone.

Where I excel is that I *realize* this voice is a quality of me, and I try not to limit them for it. I don't always succeed, I admit. But I at least try. And I'm getting better.

These men that have the "one-penis" policy are sometimes men like me. They feel the threat, and they aren't in a place where they can smash-down their anxiety yet.

Sometimes, they are BDSM Doms who have set an arbitrary rule because that is their right and their power.

And sometimes they are young men who are only interested in casual sexual encounters.

None of these is inherently wrong. None of these is worse than the other, nor is it wrong to be the man who is willing to admit anxiety and worry.
 
In response to the original poster, someone already tried to make this point, but I'll try to rephrase it so that it's a little clearer. If you've managed to meet and interview 20 men and none of them are what you are looking for (let's not call them pigs - they are simply not what you're looking for), then it seems most likely that the problem is in how and where you are looking.

Like someone else said, the common denominator is you. This is NOT to say that you should reduce your standards or limit your screening process. These are not the problem. The problem is that the men who even get to that process are not the men you want to be talking to. So ... why is this?

Are you meeting these people online? In what sort of group? It is explicit on your profile that you are looking for an emotionally invested relationship? Most people who see married yet searching assume swinger. Even if they know the term polyamory, they don't necessarily know what it means to YOU. Perhaps you should try meeting people at polygroups and munches. Look for friends, and maybe find partners along the way.

Also, I do think, based solely on the information you've presented here, that maybe you are being a little harsh and allowing your disappointment to embitter you. You say that you're wife's ex was apparently only after the sex afterall because he grew distant. Given the number of hoops he jumped through to get to date her, and the fact that you all got along, implies that this probably isn't the case. It seems just as likely that a) he simply realized that, as much as you got along, this wasn't really the relationship he wanted or b) he realized that the feelings he was developing for your wife were more serious than he expected and that he wasn't happy being her "secondary." Rather than challenge the stability of your marriage, he simply bailed. I have seen both of these scenarios happen before, and the both seem more likely than someone going through all the hoops of dating and getting to know you just to try to get laid.

Why spend so much time examining this one relationship? Because I think your reaction to it, and your assumptions about it, highlight your own biases. And if you're looking for assholes, even subconsciously, then that's what you'll find.
 
I'm glad for you that you're in a place where anxiety doesn't affect you. Me, though, I'm a person that is constantly beset by some fear or another. It's a part of who I am that I can't (and won't) overcome, as it is as fundamental to me as any traditionally good quality, and is equally important to the mural that my family loves.

Don't get me wrong, I have anxiety. You can go back in my blog on this site and see how anxiety can truly affected me. It tends to only rears it head when I know I don't have support/control/love etc :) (eg: I loved our ex, she didn't love us. I knew I was losing her and I had no control. Anxiety, jealousy etc all took over)

None of these is inherently wrong. None of these is worse than the other, nor is it wrong to be the man who is willing to admit anxiety and worry.

Agreed, 100%...:) Well said.
 
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