Advice on Jealousy

Poly1984

New member
My husband (34m) and myself (32f) are somewhat new to poly. I've been in poly relationships before but we have been married 12 years and mono most of our relationship. About two months ago he started to see someone regularly (25f) who wasn't necessarily poly but has bought into it in order to date him. She sees other people as well. I'm not currently seeing anyone but do have a few people I talk wth regularly- I'm very picky and tend to only like someone every now and then.

I've felt varying levels of jealousy and have dealt with them okay most of the time but have really nose dived a few times with feeling a big drop in my self worth. Because of NRE, my husband admits that if he had to choose between a day with me or her he would choose her. She's new and exciting- and I'm old hat. This is part of where my jealousy comes from. He's just more excited about her at any given moment than me. We are best friends and talk very openly so I know that he finds sex with her to be wild. After he doesn't quite know what came over him and is astounded by how great it was. He says that from the beginning our relationship was more complex and more intellectual so he hasn't felt that way with me. I feel like his time with her has belittled our relationship and our connection which hurts because I've never in my life felt as connected to anyone as I have my husband. The way he talks about how this new woman makes him feel... It mirrors how I feel about him. He even uses phrases I've used to describe my feelings towards him when he speaks of her.

I don't necessarily expect reckless abandon and wildness all the time after being married so long but I don't think the length of our marriage should mean that this kind of fire and passion can't happen for us. It's certainly happening for me and it hurts to think that he's decided we've been together too long to have that with me. He regularly says that I cannot compete with the NRE and wants me to stop comparing myself to her. I'm totally guilty of making it a competition but I also don't even realize I'm doing it. I can't help but wonder why she gets to have so many pieces of my husband that I've desperately wanted from him for years.

Also fueling my jealousy is insecurity. He's stated that he finds her more attractive than me. He's pointed out that the world is full of people that are more attractive than either of us and it just happens that she's one of them. He finds her intoxicating and has a hunger for her (which links back to the previous paragraphs). Full disclosure with this, though, is that I was feeling insecure and often nagged him to just admit he wanted her more and found her more attractive. Not my proudest moment by far.

The last thing is more concrete. We've never done a lot of oral and while I really enjoy it I always assumed he just didn't like doing it. However, he does it with her almost every time they see one another. My husband is very good at oral and the fact that he can give it to her but not me has been a deafening blow. He has stated that she has a better smell than I do. We've wondered if her being shaved helps him so I did shave myself but he hasn't wanted to try it since then. I've read online and tried to determine if something is wrong with me but it seems like I just have a very distinct and strong smell. I also get incredibly wet in a way that she doesn't so that may add to it. This has also been a huge blow to my self confidence.

What can I do to move more towards compersion? I do feel it at times- I love that she makes him feel this way! I have so much joy that he's found someone to explore and play with and she's a very nice person. I just also want these things from him. I would honestly love to even be able to talk with her about how great he is and I love the self confidence boost she gives him. I love hearing about their sexual escapades and often am aroused by the thought of what they might be doing to each other. I feel like it's much less that I'm not poly now (something he has accused me of) and much more that I really value the intense connection I always thought my husband and I had.
 
Hi there Poly1984,

Welcome to the forums. I'm relatively new here myself but I've found that the more senior members tend to have a lot of good advice and deep insight into many situations.

Given how new I am, I doubt there's much I can say that you haven't already experienced. However, I'll share 3 links. First, there is the concept of polyamoryville, which is what you're describing with your husband.

Secondly, when you said
I feel like his time with her has belittled our relationship and our connection
it made me think of how as a society we tend to adore the first stage of falling in love over the later stage of growing in love.

Finally, I suspect you've lived through jealousy many times already, it's an old topic, but I have found this resource the most well-written article on jealousy, and I summarised it here.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

What can I do to move more towards compersion?

You already sound compersive.

Maybe a little nosy though. Because you want to know stuff that is private between them so you can get a thrill. Why do you need to know about oral sex with her? Why is he telling you she smells better? Is she ok with him telling you TMI details about (him + her)? If not, you aren't being respectful and neither is he.

What you aren't getting is connection with your spouse. You sound lonely for that. So ask more directly for what it is you actually want. Stop trying to connect to your spouse through her. Foster your own connections.

Instead of asking stuff like

"Is she cuter than me?"​

learn to ask

"I need to feel connected. I could use a hug. Could you be willing to do that?"

"I miss you. I need couple time. How about going on a date with me to____. What day works for you?"

"I noticed its been X weeks since our last date. I feel lonely and a bit taken for granted. Can we talk about how to solve that?"​

You are going to have to stop doing things like this:

I was feeling insecure and often nagged him to just admit he wanted her more and found her more attractive. Not my proudest moment by far.*

And he's going to have to stop telling you things like this:

He's stated that he finds her more attractive than me. He's pointed out that the world is full of people that are more attractive than either of us and it just happens that she's one of them.

When you pester, he's going to have to learn to tell you NO.

"No. I am not going to tell you about that because you end up using it to drive yourself and me crazy with comparing yourself to her. You have to stop doing this and you have to stop asking me to help you do this. I love you. If you need something, I'm willing to try to meet it. What is it your actual need?"

If you don't know how to articulate it, print and circle. Maybe pointing to it helps you communicate better with your spouse.

I don't necessarily expect reckless abandon and wildness all the time after being married so long but I don't think the length of our marriage should mean that this kind of fire and passion can't happen for us. It's certainly happening for me and it hurts to think that he's decided we've been together too long to have that with me.

I have so much joy that he's found someone to explore and play with and she's a very nice person. I just also want these things from him.

That's why I don't think this is about compersion. This is about spending time with you as a couple, courting and romancing each other. You envy that she is getting courtship stuff from him. Because you wish you had it too.

It sounds like you are bored or in a rut with the present routines. You sound like you want to have play time with him too. Not just always be doing the daily grind together. That might be being good roomies, or good parents, or good workers or whatever. But that's not being a couple.

So ask for what you want and need, rather than comparing the relationships and envying the couple things he does with her.

You sound like you want to be here. He's learning to hinge, and you are learning to meta. But really? I don't think this is about the polyshipping.

It's about not enough couple time.

If you are realizing that you both let the romance in your relationship pitter out? Work to put it BACK. Work, kids, elders, home maintenance... a lot of stuff can take up your time in the daily grind. You aren't going to just "find the time."

You have to MAKE the time. If you aren't making the time to romance each other? You have to start. See if you feel better and more connected then.

Galagirl
 
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What the smart lady above me said! Yeah

Humm... You should be able to ask, tell, dictate to your SO that you like and need some oral... And he should be happy you want some from him!!
That said... If he says.. Ok.. would you just rinse a bit first.. And you comply with those little things... Even if you don't need it!
I'm always happy to give to the ladies.. Very happy when they ask! They are musty..;) so..I do ask for what I would like.. And they are happy to do it....
I don't know much!! It comes and goes, the strength of the natural aroma, most times they are just fine and tasty..other times I ask... When all said and done... Once going... The taste is just fine..muah
You can always naturally add a distinct likeable smell close by where it's safe! fwiw
 
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Your post just screams TMI and oversharing to me. Either you're asking too many questions to things that you REALLY don't want the answer to, or he's divulging things that really serve no purpose and would only hurt your feelings.

WHY would he tell you that he finds her more attractive? I get that yes, we all vary in attractiveness to each other and it's subjective and that doesn't mean he loves you less, but holy shit, keep it to yourself and don't answer the question (if that was asked) and just say "you're beautiful and I love you."

Also... "you can't compete with the NRE." WHAT? Yes, NRE can be very strong, but if he's not an asshole, then when you state that his NRE is causing him to neglect his existing relationship then he should be stepping up and making a conscious effort to not let it overwhelm him.

I agree that if there's something that makes oral with you harder for him, then that's not necessarily something he can control, but maybe there is something that can be done about it like showering right before, etc. Also, oral sex can be a combination of hands and mouth. If an abundance of fluid is an issue, then start with oral and change to hands, or use both simultaneously so that the tongue can focus on the clit while the hands to more of the penetrative "wet work." Basically, it sounds like he's making excuses instead of trying to take the time to discuss with you various options that could remove or reduce some of the barriers to you guys improving your sex lives.

And for the love of whatever, don't ask questions that compare, and tell him to keep his mouth shut about comments that compare so that you're not doing so much competing. That will definitely help.

Sorry that you're having to deal with this!
 
My husband (34m) and myself (32f) are somewhat new to poly. I've been in poly relationships before but we have been married 12 years and mono most of our relationship. About two months ago he started to see someone regularly (25f) who wasn't necessarily poly but has bought into it in order to date him. She sees other people as well.

It sounds like you have considerable more experience with poly relationships both in theory and practice and if your husband just recently started his journey
and he followed the mantra of radical honesty and open communication. People preach and encourage that unless if it's something comparative. Then you're suppose to lie and say it's not better, or more attractive, or hotter sex it's just different. ATTENTION NEWBIE LURKERS: if you're bold enough to ask such questions and you get the " it's just different " answer that's code for you don't want to know. Stop.


You say here you've been mostly mono during your relationship. What's that mean exactly? When were you not ?
And who's idea was it to open up and how long ago did that happen as it relates to this most recent example? For example did he find this woman and suggest this or did you suggest this and then he happened to follow later?
I guess the other question would be does you husband have a poly mind set or is this in response to your poly nature?


As for your jealousy or envy issue I think it's a really tough personal balance of the cuck queen thing and Hearing / learning painful things. Only you know if the erotic trill is worth the pain.
 
Kev I think you and gala missed the part quoted below. And by the way how do you unrung the bells? Most of those links discuss ungrounded fears not hard cold truth. How do you put what she knows into those work sheets and end up feeling good ?? I'm not trying to be negative I just don't see it working.

I love hearing about their sexual escapades and often am aroused by the thought of what they might be doing to each other.
 
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I love hearing about their sexual escapades and often am aroused by the thought of what they might be doing to each other.

I didn't miss it.

I just think that it's not only about that one person's preferences. Other people have their preferences too.

I might get off hearing about my husband's sexcapades with other people. It turns me on and helps me feel close to my husband.

But does the other person consent to their lover (my husband) telling his wife (me) TMI private details about (them + husband) so I can get off? If all players are good with that? Carry on.

But I don't just assume. Some people want to keep their sex life private.

And there are other ways for me to be turned on and feel close to my husband than through that.

People preach and encourage that unless if it's something comparative. Then you're suppose to lie and say it's not better, or more attractive, or hotter sex it's just different.

If someone is so bold as to ask? I am going to assume they want to know the answer.

  • I could say "Yes. I am willing to talk about that with you. They are better than you at _____. You are better than them at _____."

If they handle it well? Great. Life goes on.

If they handle it poorly and act out at me? Then ask me again for new data?
  • I could openly and honestly say "No. I'm not willing to talk about that with you any more."

I'm fine with "compare and contrast." If they don't really want to know how I feel/think about things? Why be asking me then? :confused:

I'm not ok with people acting out at me. If they make a big fuss about it the first time? And I don't like that? The next time they ask for more data, I'm going to decline to participate. They might not like hearing me say openly and honestly "No. I'm not gonna tell you that stuff. Because you take it and act out and that drives me nuts. If you need something, I love you and I am willing to help you. But I'm not willing to help you drive me nuts. I have to love me too!"

Why would I not be honest about that?:confused:

And by the way how do you unrung the bells?

That's the thing. You cannot unring the bells. If you ask for information that later you wish you didn't know? You cannot unknow it.

Most of those links discuss ungrounded fears not hard cold truth. How do you put what she knows into those work sheets and end up feeling good ?? I'm not trying to be negative I just don't see it working.

Well, it might not work. It's still unfolding. Suggestions given here are only suggestions. It's up to the OP to discern what tools might work for her or not.

It also might be a case of willing to poly, but not actually able to poly well.

Either because she cannot stop competing, or make peace with her husband liking her for these things and like the GF for those things.

Or the husband cannot find a balance between courting the new GF and continuing to court his wife and not taking her for granted.

Hopefully they can figure it out so things eventually work out ok for them and they can keep on doing poly.

Or after trying, they find they can't make that kite fly well. So they stop doing poly.

Galagirl
 
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I didn't miss it.

I just think that it's not only about that one person's preferences. Other people have their preferences too.

I might get off hearing about my husband's sexcapades with other people. It turns me on and helps me feel close to my husband.

But does the other person consent to their lover (my husband) telling his wife (me) TMI private details about (them + husband) so I can get off? If all players are good with that? Carry on.

But I don't just assume. Some people want to keep their sex life private.

And there are other ways for me to be turned on and feel close to my husband than through that.

Aren't these very separate issues? Her need to know this stuff out of insecurity or out of arousal vs what's been discussed about sharing details in outside relationships. We don't know what agreements have been made on that front.


If someone is so bold as to ask? I am going to assume they want to know the answer.

  • I could say "Yes. I am willing to talk about that with you. They are better than you at _____. You are better than them at _____."

If they handle it well? Great. Life goes on.

If you are answering a specific question why would you add the last sentence. " you are better than them at ______. " ??? Is that how you see these questions being asked or is that your advice to lessen the natural comparative blow? " yes it's true she's much better at sex than you but you make a great bed ....I really love those hospital corners". I see volunteering info as a very dangerous and slippery slope that might cause more pain. IMO .



If they handle it poorly and act out at me? Then ask me again for new data?
  • I could openly and honestly say "No. I'm not willing to talk about that with you any more."


I'm not ok with people acting out at me. If they make a big fuss about it the first time? And I don't like that? The next time they ask for more data, I'm going to decline to participate. They might not like hearing me say openly and honestly "No. I'm not gonna tell you that stuff. Because you take it and act out and that drives me nuts. If you need something, I love you and I am willing to help you. But I'm not willing to help you drive me nuts. I have to love me too!"

Isn't all this filed under " their emotional management " stuff ? And I haven't seen any evidence that her husband is upset / driven nuts or feels like he's been acted out on. How does this apply to this situation? To me it looks like she asks and he answers and she goes off licking her wounds.

That's the thing. You cannot unring the bells. If you ask for information that later you wish you didn't know? You cannot unknow it.


Well, it might not work. It's still unfolding. Suggestions given here are only suggestions. It's up to the OP to discern what tools might work for her or not.

It also might be a case of willing to poly, but not actually able to poly well.

Either because she cannot stop competing, or make peace with her husband liking her for these things and like the GF for those things.

Yes that's all very true and I agree with that. However where I'd put the drill bit and start drilling learning stuff for the erotic trill vs the pain that it might cause. As you said there might be better ways of getting that trill.
 
Most of those links discuss ungrounded fears not hard cold truth. How do you put what she knows into those work sheets and end up feeling good ??
That's my impression as well of MANY anti-jealousy articles & books. And it's become part of Sacred Poly Dogma that "jealousy is BAD" & "if you don't fix yourself, you're BAD."

To my mind at least, experiencing anxiety or anger because someone is making rude incursions into my life is NOT jealousy. It's simply not cool to force change upon someone else without permission (that whole "consent" thing in the Dogma).

Maybe some people say that that reaction IS "jealousy," & that there's "good jealousy" (the "gut" response to an actual problem that can be recognized by others) & "bad jealousy" (self-serving, controlling). But I've never actually known anyone to clearly defend "good jealousy."
 
Poly1984 -- I hope you are doing ab it better today as you navigate this stuff. You have my sympathies.

dingedheart -- Yes. I'm willing to clarify.

Aren't these very separate issues? Her need to know this stuff out of insecurity or out of arousal vs what's been discussed about sharing details in outside relationships. We don't know what agreements have been made on that front.

Yes. They are different reasons for why she might want to know. I don't think it changes that the hinge would have to check with the other person before sharing information about (hinge + lover) because Poly1984's want to know stuff doesn't trump the fact that it isn't only hinge's info to share.

We don't know if their agreements already solve that or not.

If you are answering a specific question why would you add the last sentence. " you are better than them at ______. " ??? Is that how you see these questions being asked or is that your advice to lessen the natural comparative blow?

If someone is asking me to enter a conversation where I'm supposed to compare and contrast, I'm going to compare and contrast. I'm not trying to soften any blows. I thought they were trying to learn more about ME and what makes me tick, what I find appealing in various people, etc.

If they are asking me a question that means something more like “I feel low. Could you please give me some uplift by listing the things you like about me?” I think they could say that. To me that's another kind of conversation.

Isn't all this filed under " their emotional management " stuff ?

Yes.

And I haven't seen any evidence that her husband is upset / driven nuts or feels like he's been acted out on. How does this apply to this situation? To me it looks like she asks and he answers and she goes off licking her wounds.

Poly1984 mentions nagging husband and not being proud of that. I figured he doesn't like being nagged. IME, most people don't like that. To me nagging is a form of acting out.

I encourage Poly1984 to find other ways to express what she needs without nagging.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Poly1984[/B

We don't know if their agreements already solve that or not.



Yet your comment assumed they had not??


If someone is asking me to enter a conversation where I'm supposed to compare and contrast, I'm going to compare and contrast. I'm not trying to soften any blows. I thought they were trying to learn more about ME and what makes me tick, what I find appealing in various people, etc.

If they are asking me a question that means something more like “I feel low. Could you please give me some uplift by listing the things you like about me?” I think they could say that. To me that's another kind of conversation.

Yes. I suppose if those conversations start like that with that motivation it makes sense. However I don't think the newbie / struggling mono are thinking like that when these questions come up in their heads. Example ...a fellow member told me that he notice a disconnect or drop in passion when having sex with his wife. He claimed it felt like she was just going through the motions and after several weeks of this he asked her directly who she preferred having sex with or if sex with the other partner was more passionate because this of the vibe he was picking up. She avoided the question at first asking why he asked etc etc. and then gave the " it just different" answer.

Have you personally had to answer those types of questions ?? Or is this hypothetical ?


Poly1984 mentions nagging husband and not being proud of that. I figured he doesn't like being nagged. IME, most people don't like that. To me nagging is a form of acting out.


I thought you were saying she acted out after learning the truth and thus the fallout was the acting out.

Yes I think she used the words pester. I guess nagging, pestering, and acting out are going to be really subjective with out actual facts to gauge against. I have 2 teenage kids so I know pestering and to me that's more like flying insects....annoying in the moment but not much more. A nagging wife is a level or 2 up from there. :D.
 
Yet your comment assumed they had not??

I was suggesting Poly1984 could check if their agreements solve that or not. And Poly1984 could check if Poly1984 and partner are honoring their agreements. Trying to help figure out where the problems might lie. Like...

Is it in the agreements? Is it in honoring the agreements? Both? Neither?

However I don't think the newbie / struggling mono are thinking like that when these questions come up in their heads.

I agree. It's another possible area to consider. Like... "What is it I need from my partner? Am I asking the right things to convey that need to them? Or is some kind of miscommunication happening here?"

Have you personally had to answer those types of questions ?

Never came up when I was in a V. I figure it depends on the people involved if this stuff comes up or not.

I offer how I would handle it if it had/does in future in case that helps Poly1984. Might help, might not.

I thought you were saying she acted out after learning the truth and thus the fallout was the acting out.

Sure. I could see that.

That's why I think it matters to take the time to sort out what people mean when they say something. One person could be coming at it one way. The other person could be coming at it another way.

HTH!

Galagirl
 
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That's my impression as well of MANY anti-jealousy articles & books. And it's become part of Sacred Poly Dogma that "jealousy is BAD" & "if you don't fix yourself, you're BAD."

To my mind at least, experiencing anxiety or anger because someone is making rude incursions into my life is NOT jealousy. It's simply not cool to force change upon someone else without permission (that whole "consent" thing in the Dogma).

Maybe some people say that that reaction IS "jealousy," & that there's "good jealousy" (the "gut" response to an actual problem that can be recognized by others) & "bad jealousy" (self-serving, controlling). But I've never actually known anyone to clearly defend "good jealousy."

Yes I agree that seems to be the general attitude. The virtuous path to enlightment and " growth " is by using either distractions and self delusions or behavioral modification techniques to overcome it. Also you have to put down the enemy which is why they often discuss jealousy as part of the reptilian brain., green eyed monster, etc.

To me I look at jealousy or any negative emotions surrounding a relationship as a early warning system. A barometer on expectations. It was installed for a reason. The reason was to keep us focused on or moving toward what makes us feel good /happy. If it feels bad do a course correction and or move away from the bad.

Can you give an example of the gut / good jealousy from your own life or from a thread here on the forum. I think I get your point but I don't want to assume.
 
To me I look at jealousy or any negative emotions surrounding a relationship as a early warning system. A barometer on expectations. It was installed for a reason. The reason was to keep us focused on or moving toward what makes us feel good /happy. If it feels bad do a course correction and or move away from the bad.

Here we agree, dingedheart. I usually look at the advice to push through jealousy as foolhardy. We all come equipped with an emotional GPS and it's there for a reason - to steer us through life.
 
I came to this conclusion on a boyscout winter camp out in a tent at 25 below 😆😆😆. I hope your got to this conclusion with less pain...and more sleep:😆.

For the record I agree with you more than you might know.
 
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