Struggling with my relationship of 12 years

kvb

New member
I am a Mom of a ten year old and I have been with the same partner for almost 12 years. About six years ago he told me he really believes he is poly and that he always has been and he wanted to explore other relationships and connections. He dated a few other people for a while and although it was very hard for me at the time I was able to stick it out, communicate with him about my issues and we managed to stay together.
A few years later, 2014/2015 he hadn't been dating anyone and hadn't brought up that he would like to or was planning on it at that time. We had moved and I had surgery and soon after I faced the unexpected death of my younger (and only) sibling. That combined with some financial struggles I think made it hard to even think about pursuing other relationships. Fast forward to now. After some serious hardships and struggles not only with life in general but with each other we are finally getting to a good place with each other which I think is partially why he has recently re-kindled a romance with the same woman he was dating years ago. I'm having a really hard time with it this time around. Harder than last time and I'm trying to figure out why. I have always been a free thinker and somewhat of a non-conformist so logically it is very easy for me to understand the motivation for wanting to connect intimately with other people. Emotionally however, it's infinitely more difficult for me. I get mad at myself a lot. My heart and brain don't agree and when I find myself thinking the worst when I know logically there is no reason for it, I become increasingly frustrated with myself.
I think one of the things that bothers me most is knowing my partner the way I do, and remembering what things were like when we first got together. The time when everything is magical and "real life" issues like money, parenting, jobs etc. don't even exist. When you are able to focus only on the connection you have with this magical person. He gets to have that with her, and our reality is much different obviously. I feel like she gets all the amazing parts of him and I get all the real life bs, that most of us would rather not deal with you know? The romance and passion isn't there all the time, and there are things he used to do for me and say about me that he hasn't in years anymore. To think someone else gets all of that while I am at home taking care of the day to day life crap, is really tough. Don't misunderstand, I'm not really angry, more sad and maybe a little hurt if anything. I love him and I want him to be happy truly. I really do. But the idea that someone else is getting the him that I used to get and never get anymore, breaks my heart a little.
I have never met this woman, though I know a little about her and I even tried to develop a friendly relationship with her years ago. Which was harder for me than I can even articulate. We exchanged a few emails and she opened up and told me her life struggles etc. so I turn did the same. I never heard from her again and honestly, I felt kind of betrayed by that. That's my emotional response I know, but it really made me feel like crap that I reached so far out of my comfort zone and got nothing back once I opened up to her.
Part of my wants to embrace her and try again to develop some sort of friendly relationship and the other part of me doesn't even ever want to meet her. I don't know what to do and I struggle to talk about it with him sometimes because although we are in a better place, we still aren't where we want to be with each other and it's hard to be really vulnerable with him right now.
All of my friends are married and in traditional relationships (most also live far away) and we moved last year to a small town and I still don't really know anyone here. That leads to feelings of isolation and extreme loneliness sometimes especially when my partner is gone.
I'm hoping someone out there has some advice and a different perspective because I want to make this work, and I want to be the best version of myself...and I don't see getting there on my own.
Thanks so much everyone.
 
First off, when you first said that he came out to you as polyamorous, I thought you were talking about the ten year old, second, if it makes you uncomfortable, talk to him about it! Let him know how you feel and set up some boundries for the both of you, many people think it's only the polyamorous people who need to stick to rules, but you shouldn't be doing anything crazy, either. COMMUNICATION IS KEY.
 
I am sorry you struggle. I'm sorry for your sibling's passing. Grief can sometimes take a longer time than expected to get through.

I might be wrong but I think I see several problems that hinge on one common thing -- you don't seem to speak up. You seem to kinda sit on the sidelines. Like you are passive. Or maybe depressed? When was your last check up? Are you taking care of your health basics? :confused:

Here's the smaller areas I think I spot:

1) You overthink. Like hamster wheel churning thoughts. Which then crank you up more. So think some more. Which cranks you up more. When you get a check up you might talk to your doc about that and anxiety management perhaps.

2) If you want more dates with him? Could you ask him out? If both of you have been taking the couple for granted? Either from assuming one or the other would just slot it on the schedule and then neither one does? Or from the daily grind distractions/tiredness? What stops you from asking him out? Like "Hey. I miss you and would like to reconnect. How about you and me go on a date for dinner and movie on ____?" Or do in house dates. He isn't a mind reader. Speak up.

3) Assume positive intent. Not negative.

We exchanged a few emails and she opened up and told me her life struggles etc. so I turn did the same. I never heard from her again and honestly, I felt kind of betrayed by that.

Why go to the betrayed place? You get all caught up sometimes in your daily grind things. She can't have gotten caught up in her own daily grind things? And by the time she got a chance again maybe it was too weird to be friendly with you, since they broke up? If you can feel awkward sometimes, so can other people. If you want to try reaching out and last time you went shared too much too fast and it felt yucky later? Share less this time. Don't spill your whole life story. Keep it smaller, more neutral. Talk about knitting. Or whatever hobby you like and ask what she likes.

I get that you see her as the "magical one who gets the fun him" but trust me. Somewhere in her life she has to clean a toilet, pay her bills, do the laundry and all her own daily grind adult things. Learn to see her more realistically.

4) If you need extra support, that means EXTRA. Arrange some. You know you cannot do it alone. Good for you for posting here. That's a start. Keep on going with building your support team. Schedule a check up, connect with an old friend, meet the neighbors. Don't make him be your life raft. He can be part of your team but he cannot be ALL of it.

5) Get on with getting to know your new town. Not necessarily for poly specific support, but because you would have to be doing this stuff anyway after a move. Poly or not. Drive. Learn the streets. Find the library, bank, post office. All that stuff. You don't move, unpack the house, and sit in the living room waiting for someone to come in the house to meet you. You actually have to get out there and PARTICIPATE in your town out there in order to be around to be met. Otherwise you end up like you are -- lonely and isolated.

If it's too overwhelming, just pick one easy doable. Like go drive and find the post office this week. Or at least look it up online.

Shoot, find some local restaurants online that look interesting, and then ask him on a date to try one on.

Baby steps.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Hello Kvb,
to me it seems like you're finding things harder this time perhaps because your connection with your husband has deteriorated a little - you've been through a crisis together which proves the strength of your relationship, but you've also lost the romance. You sound envious of his other connection, which for me comes up, if I feel lack myself. Maybe you're also in a worse emotional place overall after all the hardship you have experienced - getting to a place of confidence and trust in life again after a loss can take more time than you expect.
I second the advice to ask your husband out. Try actively finding new things you could be doing together. Take your focus off of the things that you are perceiving as hard, and focus on the good things you have with him. Also, take good care of yourself. Wishing you good luck :)
 
Re: Struggling with my relationship

First off I want to thank everyone for their responses. It is truly a blessing, considering how busy life can be. That you all took time out of your day to share insights and perspective is so greatly appreciated.
I actually DID ask him out and we were able to spent a night out together this past weekend which was great. I have been telling him I want to reconnect with him and he is amenable but I can't do it all on my own. I am trying really hard to remind him at least once a day of what makes him special and how much I still love him. Because we live together we don't miss or long for each other the way he does with his other partner. Half the time he doesn't even look up when I walk in a room to talk to him about something. I have been reading the ethical slut and one of their suggestions was to make a list of things your partner can do to help you feel secure in moments of fear and anxiety, so I did that. I'm waiting for him to reply to it all, though he said everything I wrote was understandable and reasonable.
I do overthink pretty much everything GalaGirl - there is no doubt about it. It's a curse. It is hard to see her realistically because I know my partner doesn't have to. Everything in their relationship is passion, love, happiness and longing when they are apart. Not to mention that when they first started dating again, he didn't tell me he was going to see her, (The rule for us has always been that he tells me when he intends to be with someone else. Who it is and when he plans on spending time with them so I don't feel deceived and to make sure my schedule is clear to be here for our child when he is away) he came home from visiting what I thought was his family and told me three days later he spent the weekend with her. I completely flew off the handle and reacted entirely emotionally to it and we separated for a while. It took lots of work to get back to where we are and we still have a long way to go, but because we were apart when they reconnected, I am the bad guy to her right now and he isn't correcting it, which is also painful for me.
I was totally broken when my brother died, especially because he was murdered. He was the only family outside of the one in my house that I have. I definitely retreated I think in order to protect myself and my relationship definitely suffered because of it. I had a therapist that I met with twice a week for over a year to help me thru it all, but when I went home at night, I shut down. It's like I didn't know how else to cope. I am finally in a place now where I feel alive again, and want to better myself and the people around me. I started exercising a few weeks ago and it's helping a lot. (I loathe exercise but...come hell or high water, I will not give up on myself.) Mentally and physically I already feel stronger and better about myself.
I know that most of my issues with all of this stem from ME...not him. I had one of those tiny gorgeous workoutaholic mothers who told me I needed a trainer at the age of nine. I was never thin enough, pretty enough or smart enough. When that is pounded into your head your whole life, you develop a warped sense of self image. Combine that with physical imperfections from childbirth/surgery and it is much easier to see the flaws than anything else. I know that is me and I have to keep working on it, every day. I am sure it will be a struggle for the rest of my life. But I don't want to feel this way about myself and I don't want spend the rest of my life feeling like I am ugly, stupid, fat and not good enough. Logically that just isn't true, and I know it. My partner can't make me feel worthy, I have to do that myself. I know that too.
GalaGirl - I went to my town hall today...just FYI. Thanks.
Thanks to everyone. Please keep suggestions and perspective coming when you can? I really appreciate all of you. There is no one in my actual life that is in even remotely a similar situation so it means everything to have people to talk to.
 
Hi kvb,

Welcome to the forums. I'm relatively new here myself but have found that the experienced polyamorists here often offer some really great insight. I'm not a polyamorist myself, so I'll leave the poly advice to them.

However, something in your post reminds me of myself and of the difficulty I had in transitioning to polyamory. I may be wrong, but something you wrote made me feel that you have angry moments and I wondered if you have considered that the anger you feel may stem from a depression? (Link 1, link 2).

Hope it helps, or maybe I'm reading too much of myself into your situation. Best of luck anyway,
Shaya.
 
Hi kvb,

I am wondering, does your partner ask you out on dates these days? If not, what's stopping him? Maybe the two of you aren't having much fun together. It's something to talk about, maybe it can be fixed.

As for whether to pursue a friendship with this other woman, my first instinct is to give it a try. Maybe approach it a little more cautiously than last time, don't tell this woman stuff that's very personal to you, at least not until much later.

There's a lot of great advice on this thread, I am just emphasizing a couple of things the others have already said. Hang in there and keep posting, okay?

Hope you get to feeling better.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
re: Struggling with my relationship

Shaya- Thank you for those links! I had no idea depression could manifest this way. My therapist never mentioned it either, which is really strange also. It is definitely something for me to investigate further. I really appreciate it.

ktd26417 - He doesn't ask me out on dates. I'm not really sure what is stopping him, it could very well be that I am the "breadwinner" and major support of the household financially. Although to me anyway, we don't have to actually go OUT to spend "date time" together. I am always asking him if we can hang out after we put our kid to bed. He doesn't really ask me the same, maybe I beat him to the punch? I don't know. When I told him I wanted to reconnect I brought up things that we used to do together and suggested we do them again/more. It doesn't cost a thing to slow dance in the living room right?? He used to spontaneously put records on and ask me to dance with him. That was so many years ago it seems.
As for his other partner, I'm really scared to make her a real person honestly. Even though I KNOW that because I don't know her or very much about their relationship, I unnecessarily torture myself with the worst case scenarios all the time. Since the last she heard I was the bad guy and we broke up I don't know if she has any interest in having any kind of friendly relationship with me. For the record, I only opened up to her because she did to me and I felt it was a good opportunity to reach out of my comfort zone and do the same. I wouldn't have otherwise, at least not so soon. Since she never replied to that one and said that she was "dating him not me" when he questioned why she never responded so I don't even know if she would want to hear from me. I'm totally unsure as to how to go about that or if I should at all. I feel like it would do me good to know her at least a little as she is obviously going to be (and has been) an important part of his life for quite some time now. Their relationship seems to work perfectly for the most part. She is married and dates a few other people besides my partner and her husband from what I understand. Beyond that the only thing I really know about her is that she is really pretty and a good decade younger than I am. None of which is comforting to someone who constantly struggles with insecurity and self worth obviously. Anyway, thank you guy so much for taking time to give me such good insight and perspective.
Mad appreciation to all of you.
 
Just a wee update - we had a huge fight last night. The fact that we had both been drinking made it much uglier. So that was super awesome. I tried (and failed miserably) to explain why I feel insecure and what my issues are and he tried to defend himself by telling me that I don't listen to anything he says. I know polyamory is supposed to be all about honesty and communication but I know for a fact he doesn't tell me things to protect me. I keep telling him the truth might hurt but omissions will hurt a lot more in the long run. It's really driving me crazy that he won't just tell me the truth, especially since he goes on and on about how open and honest polyamorous relationships are supposed to be. I don't want to know EVERYTHING, not even close...just to be clear. Even though I know he isn't telling me the whole truth, I behaved badly and I apologized this morning as did he...neither of us were our best selves last night. Today we have been getting along pretty well, but he just sprung leaving for 4 days this weekend on me and I'm reeling a little. I don't want to be angry about it but I feel like it's asking a whole lot. He wants to see some friends who live about 30 minutes away Thursday night then drive down and spend Friday night with his other partner. See his Mom Saturday day (it's her birthday) and spend Saturday night his other partner as well and come home sometime Sunday evening. I get a day or two, but four...is longer than the family vacation we are taking in a few weeks. I am pretty much always home so he knows he can make plans and I will be here to take care of everything, and that kind of bugs me too. He has literally called me on his way home from work to tell me he is spending the night somewhere else...which I think relationship stuff aside, shows a lack of common courtesy for me as a person, forget a partner. He asked me what I would prefer and I told him what he already knew...2 or 3 days...not 4...so now he is thinking about it I guess and going to talk to me about it more later. Am I being crazy controlling or unfair (?), because I really don't want to be...and it isn't my intention at all. Not consciously anyway. I don't know how to compromise on time because I know he only sees her once or twice a month because it is over a 2 hr drive to get there. However, even though I see him most days and we live together, our "adult"/"quality time is minimal...we certainly never get 48 hours of it.
 
I am so sorry your brother was murdered. That makes it so much worse. :(

Thank you for more info. Here's what I understand now:

He cheated on agreements. Said he was going to see his family. Instead he had a weekend cheating affair with her. To get her to go out with him? He said you broke up.

She doesn't know he's lied to her. She thinks you are the crap maker. Not like she'd be super tight anyway even without this mess... because she likes to practice very separate V's.

He won't do the right thing and come clean, so you wanted to be her buddy so she could see you aren't the bad guy. Rather than let her think whatever and just attend to your own well being first. He lied to her, that's his mess to clean up. Not yours.​

I think you have other fish to fry first if you are solving problems in order created. I do not think you are insecure. I think you have been carrying heavy burdens for much to long!

You are dealing with an unstable situation -- a cheater husband who gives you a lot of run around. Up an down and all around and not actually honest. Treats you poorly. Of course it's unstable if he's behaving like that. Of course it feels crap to receive behavior like that.

That is not YOU being insecure like your are "too sensitive." It's "this unstable situation is plain crap!"

If your feelings are telling you this is not good space for you? It is because this is NOT safe space for you. You could create your own stability.

PROBLEM 1 (which makes is harder to see Problem 2 as "I am not insecure. This is just crap" because you are trained to think your thoughts and perceptions are faulty by your mom)

The oldest problem?

I had one of those tiny gorgeous workoutaholic mothers who told me I needed a trainer at the age of nine. I was never thin enough, pretty enough or smart enough. When that is pounded into your head your whole life, you develop a warped sense of self image.

So your MOTHER had a warped sense of self image and she tried to imprint her weird in your developing child brain. She groomed you. So now you are walking around carrying your mom's voice still in there criticizing. You have a lot of baggage. You don't sound like you enjoy carrying it around.

What do you need to give yourself permission to unpack it, keep what is still useful, and just get rid of the rest? Stop carrying your mom's old stuff around for her in your head?

My father is an ass. Even before the dementia, he was an ass. It wasn't like he was NICE. He hates himself. So his way of making himself feel big/better is to put everyone around him down so in comparison he is "higher." Doesn't work of course. If he feels crap, and makes all around him feel crapper, he feels good in the moment like "Neener neener. "

Later realizes he still feels crap, and a bonus load of shame for acting out at people being mean to them. So actually he's in deeper crap than he was originally. Digging his own pit deeper.

I spent a lot of my youth listening to him criticize everything I do. He's barmy now, and he's still keeps going. Here are various ways I cope with him.

1) Agree

In person he tells me things like "You suck. You cannot do that right."

I agree in response. "Yup. I suck. I never do anything right. Here. You do it then." And I get up and walk away.

Do I BELIEVE that I suck? Nope.

Am I going to change his mind? Nope. He's warped. Why waste my breath?

Do I want to be doing the thing with him nitpicking over my shoulder? Nope. So I stop.

Do I HAVE to be doing it? Nope. I do free caregiver work. I don't get paid. They offered. I said no. They cannot afford my rates. Because as soon as it becomes a paid thing, Dad will CRANK UP the verbal abuse thinking he's entitled now. Because he pays you know!

When the work is free? He cannot bitch it's not professional work. And if he does? I agree! I just go home. Be by yourself then. Hire someone or call social services. Cuz I suck, you know, amateur that I am. :D

It is so liberating. Could try it. AGREE.​

2) Accept

No. You were NOT enough for your mother's warped self image. You will never be enough. And that is OK not to be because it was warped standard to begin with.

If she only likes Superman who flies? Rather than kill yourself trying to leap off tall buildings? Accept you are not Superman. And let it be her problem to go find Superman. Your are not him. And not make it become your problem to turn yourself into Superman so she can finally be happy. Creating her happiness is HER job. Not yours.

Just like creating your happiness is YOUR job. You are not put on this earth to please your mother. As an adult the only one you have to be "enough" for is you.​

3) Skip bad commercials and change the channel.

I don't think you have separated out your voice in your head. Are you listening for it? Let me color it for you. Your voice is green. Mom old voice that sometimes plays in your head is red.

But I don't want to feel this way about myself and I don't want spend the rest of my life feeling like I am ugly, stupid, fat and not good enough. Logically that just isn't true, and I know it.

It's like you get a glimpse of YOUR authentic voice and it gets a commercial break. And it's not even a good commercial but a crap one. You mom's old message interrupting. Well, that was HER warped stuff. Not yours. You hold the TV remote in your own brain. Could change the channel if you have seen this one a million times and it isn't even amusing. Or get up and get a drink of water. You don't have to sit there listening.​

4) Air freshener

Old mom voice comes in farting around. Tells you you are fat and ugly? Two big toots? Well, spray some air freshener then. It's 2 for 1.

So you immediately have to spray 4 sprays. List 4 good things you have done today. Responsible things like paid your bills on time. Self honoring things like you did a workout and had a good shower. Took care of your kids and made them dinner.​

5) Don't hit the baby

(I) constantly struggle with insecurity and self worth

You have inherent value worth and dignity. You don't have to struggle to find it. You already have it.

Being your own self bully is not honoring you. It's not showing you self respect. It is not behavior you can be proud of. So you cannot hold yourself in high regard or high esteem for behaving like that.

You could tell yourself "Don't hit the baby" -- the younger you who needed different parenting than your mom provided. Your mom sucked at it. So now you have to do it. What are you gonna do? Keep ON hitting the baby? Or allow her to heal?

Do less self bullying. Find things to be proud of that you do / did. Then you can hold yourself in good esteem and think well of yourself.​

6) Do your reasonable best

It's ok if your flu best is not the same as your healthy best. Just do your best that day. And be proud of doing your best that day. Your reasonable best and feel proud of that.​

7) TALK BACK!

If it's your mom's voice in your head criticizing? Could tell it SHUT UP and list examples of actual things you have done. Then dismiss it, recognizing that this is mom's old nag voice. This is not YOU with your authentic voice.

Inner Voice: You suck.

You: Nope. I'm the breadwinner here. I do plenty awesome. You just sit around bitching and not even in your own head. You come over here to bitch in my head. Get off my property. Shoo!

OR you can agree.

Voice: You suck.,

You: That's right. You think I suck. Guess that means you are leaving now since I suck so much. There's the door. SHOO! I'm busy doing my awesome.​

I don't know if any of those coping ideas help any... but give it a try.

PROBLEM 2 -- Cheating husband creating unstable environment in the home

As for what to do about the marriage?

I'd suggest separate again and this time make it longer. An apartment lease time. Do the coparenting business politely but otherwise lead separate lives apart. Get your own place. Get out. You take the nice fresh space and he can be in the sour environment space he is busy making.

1) He will either wake up and stop being an ass and do the work required to REALLY repair instead of giving you lip service.

2) Or he doesn't. And you will realize he doesn't care, was kinda sucking you dry, and actually you are ok without him.​

Cuz you will have been all this time in your new apartment. You will learn to stand on your own two feet, and get to know your own self and what YOU value and what YOU think instead of bending over backwards to please everyone else.

Please yourself for a while. Not him, not your mom voice... just YOU. Not following him around begging for him to treat you better when he just makes crap/gives you scraps.

You? You are a breadwinner. You did a big move. You are seeking help to un-crap you life. You know where town hall is and have a fitness routine to boot. You CAN and you ARE making good stuff happen!

Rock on with yo' bad self. In baby steps but moving it forward all the same.

Maybe your next step could be a general check up for general health as well as advice for therapists in this new town?

And grab one of those apartment books they usually have in the grocery, gas station, etc. Or pop in at random if you drive by a complex you like, and ask to see the model. Just to peek at what a fresh, clean space could feel like.

Calm, stable, crap free space with no more emotional roller coaster.

Hang in there.
Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl - First off let me say, you are amazing. You seriously just made my day. Thank you so much!
Okay let me try to succinctly reply to everything...

When he told me he spent the weekend with her the first time, he hadn't seen her in a few years. Like I said we had agreed that everything was to be out in the open and upfront so yeah, I felt seriously betrayed and really hurt by that. But the crazy part was that he was insistent that he hadn't done anything wrong at all. We were in a shitty place at the time and he basically just kept saying "what did we agree years ago?!...that I had the freedom to see other people..." Since we were in such a bad place and not communicating well, that was his reason (according to him) to not talk to me about it beforehand. I told him at that time, and I still believe this...I think he wanted to go have a good time and not have to feel bad about it...he knew I was going to be upset either way...might as well enjoy the weekend and deal with the fallout later. I really think there is part of him that feels bad that he knows this is hard/hurtful for me at times. There have been several times that when I talk about what upsets me/hurts my feelings etc. he will say "Well, now I feel like an asshole" or "You're making me feel bad...and I don't think I should have to feel guilty blah blah blah..." I always say the same thing which is basically if you feel bad it's because at least part of you knows what you are doing isn't right. The kicker to the original reconnection with this woman was that in the three days it took him to tell me about it, our lease was up and we spent hours discussing our future. The next day he tells me what happens. Not to mention I happened to send him a text while he was gone in an attempt to reconnect with him that said we needed to reconnect and that I missed him/we needed "adult" time together. I felt like an idiot on many levels for a while because of how poorly I feel he handled it.

I forgot to mention what might be a somewhat important piece of information which is, I pay for almost everything. He has a part time job that takes care of incidentals, gas, coffee etc. Now part of that is because I was supposed to get a better car so he could drive for lyft or uber and I didn't do that in a reasonable time frame for many reasons. Mainly because I was just broken after my brother died...for a long time. He pays part of the utilities when he can...which is what our agreement was. I pay rent, he pays the utilities. It's funny you said something in your reply about paying bills because I did that today. All the utilities...I woke up the water turned off in fact. So when you talk about separating, I don't know how that would work. He doesn't have anywhere else to go...or the funds to get his own place and I certainly can't afford to pay for two. So..rock. hard place.

I can't assume he told her we broke up, though if I had to guess you would probably be right. He did tell her when we went away over this past weekend that he had gotten a new tablet and was syncing that with his phone and that is why she hadn't heard from him. It hurts to think he will talk to her about my shortcomings but not my/our successes. A lot.

As far as my oldest problem goes, you hit the nail on the head a thousand percent. Thank you so much for taking so much time to break it down. I haven't spoken to my Mother in almost two years. It's a long story but the short is relationships with anyone are her way or the highway. If you take too long to respond to her for whatever reason, you are the bad guy and will hear about it endlessly. When my brother died (we had different mothers but he was never anything but all brother to me...half didn't exist to either of us), I didn't call her for a week and I knew then...it had been too long and I was going to hear it. So I didn't call, and neither did she. Because it's my job to reach out, regardless. Period. That's just the way she is.
You are so right about my voice, and I never saw it that way. It's so hard to reprogram the channel, but I am so trying to. One of the things I am notorious for is apologizing ALL the time. I walked into you in the hallway? "I'm sorry." I dropped the remote when handing it to you? "I'm sorry." I bought you something but it wasn't the nicest version because I can't afford it? "I'm sorry." I seriously apologize for my existence multiple times a day. And now my kid says I'm sorry too much and it breaks my effing heart. I know that also stems from my Mother. That is all I grew up doing. Apologizing for not being superman.

Your idea for talking back is brilliant and it sounds like something I would say...I am definitely going to try it. Everything you are saying is helping more than I can articulate and I cannot thank you enough. You're right about pleasing myself too, I am awful at it. I will spend money on my partner and my child without thinking twice, but if it something for me...I will torture myself for weeks about it. Telling myself "You don't really need this..." or "That's money you could spend on..." and on it goes. My authentic voice, also knows this is ridiculous, but changing it...like everything else, not easy.

Today has been long and difficult. He is going away from Thursday to Sunday and I'm really having a hard time with it. (It was bad enough that he spent his birthday with her last month. He was here for the birth "day" but part of that was napping/showering/primping and he left before dinner. He didn't understand why it bothered me that he wanted to spend his birthday night with her and not me. Which is mind boggling to me still. How can you not get that? What am I missing here? Not to mention, I got all dressed up for him the night before...and when he looked at me...not one word about the outfit or that I had spent time doing myself up for him.) Things are tense right now between us...I told him that if he is going to spend multiple nights away from home, I would like a week's notice. I think that's totally reasonable, especially since I am trying to create some sort of social life in this tiny town of mostly conservatives. (Less than a thousand people...seriously SMALL.)

Since I spent the last two years at home, trying to cope with the loss of my brother a pattern has developed that he can do what he wants because I will be here, because I am always here. I don't think that's fair and it needs to change. I told him all of this and while he agreed he added that "it would be different if you were dating/trying to date someone else..." My response was "Why? One shouldn't have anything to do with the other. It's common courtesy. Whether I'm dating anyone else or not is irrelevant."
I also think it's notable to point out he is diagnosed bi-polar (medicated under the care of a psychiatrist) and that I know his meds are why he has to take a nap literally every single day regardless of how much sleep he got the night before or what time he woke up that morning. It's hard to think that his being bi-polar doesn't affect how he thinks/handles things. Not that it is an excuse for bad behavior, just something that should be taken into consideration?

PS- Major kudos to you for how you are handling your Dad. Seriously. I hope you applaud yourself at least once a day. I will be doing it for you if you don't!
 
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Glad it gave you some uplift. I hope you feel better for airing some stuff out. You def have a lot going on.

Some links I thought of when reading your update... I don't know if they help you any.

http://outofthefog.website/other-articles/bipolar-disorder

http://outofthefog.website/what-it-feels-like/

http://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do/

http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201103/king-or-queen-baby

https://www.domesticshelters.org/do...ion/you-can-stop-apologizing-now#.WZPxcHeGOi4

You are under great strain and stress. I'm amazed you do not see how strong you have been/are for SO LONG under SO MUCH load. Again, I encourage you to get a check up soon. Take care of your health "basics." Put your own oxygen mask on first.

Not all chronic patients are nice. Some are mean and abusive. Just like not all non-patients are nice. Some are mean and abusive. Some used to be nice, but chronic illness grinds them down and they become abusive. In the end does it matter where the mean comes from?

Whether the rock hits the glass or the glass hits the rock? Either way it always sucks for the shattered glass. YOU. You traded mean (non patient?) Mom for mean (bipolar patient) husband.

I always say the same thing which is basically if you feel bad it's because at least part of you knows what you are doing isn't right.

Or he feels bad because you are currently ruining his good time lecturing him about stuff he doesn't give a hoot about.

here have been several times that when I talk about what upsets me/hurts my feelings etc. he will say "Well, now I feel like an asshole" or "You're making me feel bad...and I don't think I should have to feel guilty blah blah blah..."

Translation: Only my feelings/me having a good time counts. Your feelings do not count. I do not have to feel guilty about always putting me first regardless of how it dings you.

He is TELLING YOU HOW IT IS. As plain as he can speak. You could believe him.

What you are missing? You seem to assume he values the things you do. (honesty, being considerate, sharing the work, being appreciated, etc)
He values (having a good time, doing whatever he wants when he wants, screw how it affects anyone else, getting all the cookies)

Through those glasses? What's this bit look like?

He didn't understand why it bothered me that he wanted to spend his birthday night with her and not me. Which is mind boggling to me still. How can you not get that? What am I missing here?

You assume he values sharing time, fairness, or any of the things you value. He values him having a good time. He's having it. The jobs are: He has a good time at your expense. You lump it.

Not to mention, I got all dressed up for him the night before...and when he looked at me...not one word about the outfit or that I had spent time doing myself up for him.)

Translation 1: So why should I care you got dressed up? Where are the cookies for me there? None. Why would I work noticing or caring or giving you a compliment cookie? Didn't you know all the cookies in the world go in MY jar?

Translation 2: You dressed up to please me. That IS your job. That IS how it works here. You do everything for nothing/scraps. You get no cookies. Didn't you know all the cookies in the world go in MY jar?

He did tell her when we went away over this past weekend that he had gotten a new tablet and was syncing that with his phone and that is why she hadn't heard from him.

Is that true? Or casual lies? Or a blend? Dad wants what he wants STAT. If "telling stories" gets him cookies faster, bye honesty.

It hurts to think he will talk to her about my shortcomings but not my/our successes. A lot.

It's not about you, hon. He has to paint you as the meanie so HE can be poor lil ol him. That story sells better. Then she can go "Oh! Poor you!" and lavish cookies on him. It's all about the cookie supply. Say and do whatever so he gets them faster.

He's not going to say "I'm mean and treat people bad. So how about I take up with you and suck you dry and take all your cookies?" That would be "too honest" and people would go "That might be great for YOU, but not for me. Shoo!" and not give him access to their cookies.

You keep coming at it like he will respond and behave like a healthy regular person. You sound like you are trying to hold him accountable and ask for changes in behavior when he doesn't feel like exercising self control, considering you, and doesn't care to change behaviors. It works for him ok how it IS. He does little to no work and gets 100% of the cookies. So why would he trade down to do 50% of the work to get 50% of the cookies? Do more work for less? Would that be him having a good time? Nope.

I also think it's notable to point out he is diagnosed bi-polar. Not that it is an excuse for bad behavior, just something that should be taken into consideration?

What does him doing his illness management tasks or not have to do with YOU doing your tasks? You learning to stop burning yourself out trying to be Superman? You learning do your jobs only?

I pay rent, he pays the utilities

Fair enough.

It's funny you said something in your reply about paying bills because I did that today. All the utilities...I woke up the water turned off in fact.

So he didn't pay it. They shut the water off. Rather than expecting him to clean up his own messes when he falls down on the job? You cleaned it up for him. Why?

So when you talk about separating, I don't know how that would work.

It could work like this -- you take care of the rent and utilities at your place. He deals with them at his. He no pay? Things turn off at his place. He want back? He fix to turn back on.

This is unfair or unacceptable division of labor to you because.....????:confused:

He doesn't have anywhere else to go...or the funds to get his own place and I certainly can't afford to pay for two. So..rock. hard place.

This particular rock and hard place belongs to WHO? Him. Whose job is it to solve? His.

Separate means you STOP carrying him and doing all his jobs FOR HIM. You even do his worrying for him. Why ?

Let him solve his stuff. He can find a job. Move in with his cheating weekend partner. Live with a friend. Apply for unemployment. Get a roomie. Talk to his therapist to figure out his plan. Many options!

Why keep living with a person that drags you down, makes home life hell, and drains you? I'm not trying to be mean. Just wondering... what actual joy does he add to your life lately? :confused: Just sounds like lately all he does is treat you like crap and make home life hard. Adds a lot of work and a huge drag.

There was life before you. I imagine he was doing fine at it. Just that back then he was mooching off someone else. When you are used up? He will go find a new one. In fact, he's got one waiting in the wings.

I seriously apologize for my existence multiple times a day. And now my kid says I'm sorry too much and it breaks my effing heart.

Hon, it is ok to take up the space you do in the world. It's ok to stop saying "I'm sorry." Same link from above once more....

https://www.domesticshelters.org/do...ion/you-can-stop-apologizing-now#.WZRHK3eGOi5

Remember your kid watches and absorbs and copies you.

My SIL was groomed to "take it" just like my husband. My MIL was verbally abusive and sometimes physically. Because children have no other yardstick for comparison? They grew up thinking this is “normal.” She wound up with an even WORSE abusive man. She kept taking it because she was desensitized. “Oh, all couples argue sometimes.” Argue, maybe. Slap? Um... hell no!

She thought low level abuse was "normal life" -- so it had to climb SUPER high before she could finally see it was wrongful behavior. When he started hitting her kid? THAT is when she finally left.

So when you stay here and the kid is watching... what are you accidentally grooming your kid to accept and see as "normal?" That they should expect to do all the jobs, burn out, not be appreciated, be treated poorly apologize for existing and view all this as OK in a relationship? That this is "normal" for how grown ups behave and interact?

That is YOUR hard rock/place to solve. I would put attention there rather than on worrying how a grown man is going to figure out how to turn his water back on after nonpayment. He can Google.

You could focus on healing YOU and creating a more stable/more happy nest for you and kid. Free from strain.

Not focus on fixing him and all his stuff for him before you give yourself permission to fix yours/kids. You are responsible for creating your happiness. He is responsible for creating his. It sounds like he's living the high life at the expense of it coming out of your hide.

Since I spent the last two years at home, trying to cope with the loss of my brother a pattern has developed that he can do what he wants because I will be here, because I am always here. I don't think that's fair and it needs to change.

Correct. It is NOT fair.

Could work to change that. Could NOT be there all the time to be taken for granted/used up some more.

If you basically single mom it already any way? May as well be over at your own space and shed all this draining crap load.

Galagirl
 
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Hi

Tight spot you're in! I would say... Lay it out on the table how you want things! And if your SO can't do it.... It would be best to part ways. Let him figure out life on his own... You're almost bankrolling his behavior.. Stop!
It's time for a reset! Just hit it! Wether you kick him out or not... Just stop everything and start over.... If he doesn't like it ( he won't like it if he's still enjoying a bit of nre, but your getting no benefit) too bad...
Start over the right way .. For you!

Just my 2cts
 
GalaGirl- Again thank you so much for all the thought and energy you put into your response. I'm so sorry about the paragraph thing, I will take care to space things out from here on in.

I scanned over those links you sent and I am going to look into them in more detail later today. The "King Baby" thing struck a chord.

This in particular -

"They are quite often very bad with money. And not so good with work ethic either."
"They tend to be attracted to parental figures, not necessarily older, but definitely more responsible, who tend likewise to be overly responsible and are attracted to the clownish rascal, Big Baby."

That's me for sure. I am older and definitely more responsible. I'm the one that does laundry/dishes/cleans and makes sure that everyone gets where they need to be. I'm the one that makes sure that we don't run out of things, that permissions slips are signed. For all my Mother's faults she did always tell me that if you want something done, you have to do it yourself. So I always have.

I appreciate your honesty and that like me, there is no beating around the bush or sugar coating of thoughts in your reply. I need that obviously and it's incredibly appreciated, albeit hard to "hear." You are definitely making me take a hard look at the reality and it's making me wonder if I even know this man I've been with for over a decade at all. Which is kind of terrifying.

You are right in that actions speak a person's truth, and through the glasses you are giving me, it does look like I am in a pretty shite relationship at the moment.
It's hard to believe that this person who I knew to be kind, generous and compassionate at one time is now this person in front of me. He used to be the kind of guy that would send care packages and roses for no reason or email me in the middle of the day to remind me how special I am.

Now, if he looks up at me when I enter a room, I'm lucky. I've made mistakes in this relationship too, no question about it, but I never lost the desire to love him...to make him feel loved and to support him. Even when I was bad at showing it.

You know how you can sync your computer to your phone so you can reply to messages on it? Well, he had done that with his I guess because a few weeks ago he left it open and their text message exchange was on the screen. I was walking by to get something for our child and saw it momentarily. And it made me sick.
Naked picture exchanges aside, the way he talks to her...I haven't heard anything remotely close to that in many many years.
It was all "love love love, miss you miss you miss you, my heart hurts without you, I want to spend days drinking you in" kind of shite. It's probably been ten years since I heard any of that. And they have been dating on/off for YEARS so it's not like this is just about the honeymoon phase. This is their relationship.

The tablet thing was a blend. He did get a new one, but syncing it had no affect on his phone. He used it several times the night we were away.

I know it isn't about me, you are right...but if the whole idea (at least his version) is to celebrate connections and love with honesty, communication and support I think it's super crappy to only talk about the bad shite. She is totally over the moon bananas about him and he her so I don't see how it would lighten his cookie load to NOT paint me as the effing villain? Maybe I am for all my life experience and hardships, naive?

The reason I turned the water back on was selfish really outside of our child of course. Priority one was our child, there is no way I am not going give our kid the ability to bathe or get a glass of water, flush the toilet etc. Priority two was I wanted to take a shower and that was the only way it was going to happen. Even if I was okay with no power or water (and I would be if I had to be...I've been thru times like that in the past) I won't let my child go without those things. And if my partner isn't going to do what is necessary to provide those things, then I am going to. It really was about our child more than anything.

Separating would be difficult, both of our names are on the lease here and we just renewed it in July so I have no idea how the property management would respond to my asking to be taken off. Though I can inquire.
If we didn't have a child together things would be much different. I would have left the power off and I would probably be more inclined to let him figure out his own messes, but when they affect all of us, I feel obligated to take care of them.

The actual joy question you posed really got to me. I know you aren't trying to be mean and like I said I appreciate your directness more than you know. It's just like I keep telling him, I'd rather hear the truth no matter how badly it hurts. It saves a lot of time and pain in the long run.

I don't know the answer to that. He is affectionate and at least once a day asks if there is anything he can do for me and that is nice. Beyond sex, I don't know.
Maybe that is the biggest problem of all?

Before me, he was married. She cheated on him with her boss and they got divorced. When he was separated was when we started dating. He was with her from 18-28 and has been with me pretty much from 28-41 which is how old he is now. I never actually met his ex-wife but I do know she paid the majority of the bills as well. Crazy thing is when I met him? He had TWO jobs. Full time. I did not see this inability to hold down a full time job thing coming because of that. Stupid of me I guess. I don't know.

I think if we separated what would most likely happen is he would go live with his parents. He can't live with the other partner, she is married. And although he is friendly with her husband, it doesn't seem like the kind of situation where he would be amenable to his moving in. I could be wrong I suppose.

I don't know why I worry for him and feel it so necessary to take care of everyone. I have always been that way. Even as a little kid. I would spend all my allowance on real baby supplies to take care of my dolls. As a teenager and an adult I am the "den mother" of all my friends. I'm the one you come to if you need to talk. And when I love someone, I give them everything I have. Always. Their happiness is paramount and as long as it is appreciated I DO get sincere joy from taking care of the people I love.

I absolutely need to focus on myself, thank you for saying that. I need to work on my own happiness instead of taking care of everyone else's all the time and treating mine like an afterthought.

One of my friends asked me not too long ago what I like to do and I had no response...because I have no idea anymore.
 
Yeah, This whole thing just sounds terrible. I'm very very sorry you are in it. :(

He might be doing "poly" and in "nre" but deep down? This is not a problem internet stranger can help you with. People here are usually nice and will Listen. Maybe airing out helps you in the meanwhile. But you guys sound like you have a LOT of issues going on and to me it sounds like eventually you will need professional help. Counseling for instance. Might just take time with this recent move to get all the things in order. And that is OKAY!

I think you used to get love bombed and now he's love bombing her.

It's "love" not LOVE.

I know it isn't about me, you are right...but if the whole idea (at least his version) is to celebrate connections and love with honesty, communication and support I think it's super crappy to only talk about the bad shite. She is totally over the moon bananas about him and he her so I don't see how it would lighten his cookie load to NOT paint me as the effing villain? Maybe I am for all my life experience and hardships, naive?

He does "celebrate" not celebrate.
"Connections" not connections.
"Love" not love.
"Honesty" not honesty.

Odds are? She might be over the moon. But he's "over the moon." Because if he acts that way right now? She gushes and showers him with love puppy attenton for him to lap up. Many cookies there!

Painting you as the villian and casting himself as "poor lil ol me" That's the fast path to catching my mom's type, your type, probably her too. The loving nurturers. Many cookies there!

You are naive. All of you. Because you are actually good people yourselves? You don't think anyone else could possibly be so MEAN. It's hard for you guys to imagine it because you want to think kindly of people. I don't think that is a bad thing -- the world needs more people like you. Just maybe learn to be a bit more stern about any shenanigans.

He already has 100% of your cookies, time, energy, attention. Not even a challenge any more. So unless there's something it it for him? Why would he be actually nice to you or even fake "nice"? When he's got this other lady to snow job right now to steal all her time, energy, attention, cookies, etc?

In other words... he's not gonna be nice to you. He's too busy being mean to her right now. It's all mean all the time. Just that sometimes the mean is packed up in gift wrap. The "fake roses" phase -- idealizing phase. But really? Same old merry-go-round. Jekyll. Hyde. Jekyll. Hyde.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3f/e3/6a/3fe36a875ace61ed37f29bdad09b03c3.jpg

I don't know the answer to that. He is affectionate and at least once a day asks if there is anything he can do for me and that is nice. Beyond sex, I don't know.
Maybe that is the biggest problem of all?

Sounds like there's no joy here any more for you. That is the biggest problem. What are you staying for? To be bled dry?

As for him? Ask "What's in it for him right now?" whenever he does anything. He is "nice" not NICE.

1) He throws you a cookie to check in to make sure you are still well hooked on his string, an available faucet should he need supply. He doesn't want your cookies or attention right now because he's messing with her head right now. But he wants to know yours are freely available whenever he wants. And to get laid. Not share sex with you. Get laid. Like you get an ice cream, get a popsicle. You are supply. You are not a person.

2) He does "honesty" not HONESTY. He is not going to be honest with himself and go "Man, I'm an asshole to people." He will throw you a cookie. It is not for you. It is always for him. He does it so he can tell himself "See? I'm a 'nice' guy. I gave her a cookie. "

You just moved. You cannot do all the things like Superman. So just take a breath. Be ok taking it in baby steps. But now that your eyes are opening? Just remember it's "nice" and not nice.

YOU do nice things for you.Call your friend up and say you don't remember what you like. You and her can go explore the town. Mini golf bowling, museum, ice cream... whether the activities suck or are fun? You are EXPLORING! Win for you either way! Chipping down your isolation thing in this new town. Baby steps. And one thing at a time.

I think if we separated what would most likely happen is he would go live with his parents.

See? He has a place in which to land. Not really your problem.

Your leasing office doesn't care. Military deploys, people divorce, kids go to college elders need to downsize. People break lease all the time.

Just call and say "Hey, how much does it cost to break a lease? What about taking a name off? Thanks!" Get the data. He doesn't have to know you called. Might not be today. Might not be tomorrow. Might not be next year when the lease is up naturally. But it's you looking to a better tomorrow. Fostering hope? That's worthwhile.

I don't know why I worry for him and feel it so necessary to take care of everyone. I have always been that way.

You sound sweet and truly loving, giving and generous. You remind me SO much of my mom. :eek:

She also loves to serve her family and dote on her loved ones. It's awesome when they LOVE you back. When you find out it's been "love" all along and a viper to the bosom? It's a SHOCKER. She was stunned.

As for the water? Hon, your kid being stinky and skipping baths here and there won't hurt them any. It's fine to pay it to take care of children. But living in an unstable, volatile sounding home where the mother is run down exhausted all the time? That's not giving your children the best home possible or the best you. If you basically single mom it anyway? Go single mom it in a nicer nest than this one.

Kid is already doing the abuse "I'm sorry" thing. Don't wait til kid starts internalizing "everything is all my fault all the time! If I was more good, this would not happen. I'm never good enough!"

Your mom already led you on that dance. You already know how that one scars. Spare the kid.

Guard your kid's long term health and well being. Not just their body health with the bath hygiene. But MENTAL health as well.

And when I love someone, I give them everything I have. Always.

That is not healthy. Being passionate is great... but being selfless is not a virtue. It's harmful. Your mom trained you well. She sure must have needed a whole lot of propping up from you if you had to give her 100%! :(

You are an adult now, not a kid. Learn to love in balance. You can love someone a whole lot. Even up to 49% of your love. The other 51% you leave for loving you. You love YOU the most. Just a smidge more. This is not selfish. This is a vital skill.

So you can say "No. I love you a whole lot. But you ask too much. Not even for you will I do stuff/stay in stuff that hurts me."

I hope things get better for you. Baby steps.

hugs,
Galagirl
 
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Just empathy

Hi kvb,

I just wanted to thank you for your thread. You are so open and honnest and reading you and GalaGirl answers is really therapeutical for me.
I know this is not the aim at all but as it seems that we have a lot in common, you might feel less like a load if you know that someone here is really thankful to read you guys.

Thank you GalaGirl also, you're kind of my hero I have to say. I even start doing GalaGirl voice in my head :)

Kvb, I don't know if you therapist told you about co-dependant dynamic but i think you could learn more by reading about that.

You can remember how you were without him. You were already breathing and doing things. Same for him: he can take care of himself and trust me, he has already options.
As for the social network, you could start a hobby, subscribe in a club or even "date with yourself", go to a movie for exemple.

I use to choose men like your Guy. I am going through a divorce, it has been a tough year. But I am also so greatful that I was able to stop things, to stop buying the sh** he would tell me. I have a young kid, I told myself that I don't want him to witness that someone can destroy someone also.
I use strong words, it is partly due to my level in english, as it is not my mother tongue.
I also encourage you to read the blog part of the forum. I personnaly get a lot of insights by reading others. They also have roallercoaster emotions, emotions they would rather like not to feel... and it's ok :)

I send you some virtual hugs. This is tough, you are going through a lot and you are super brave.
I can imagine that your head is doing some back and forth with the idea of "not knowing you partner". Let it be, you have to adjust. Take to time to reconnect with yourself, put yourself first.
 
GalaGirl- Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to your thoughts and insights yesterday. I spent the day trying to absorb everything. When you finally get a different unbiased perspective, it is a lot to take in. I so appreciate finding this forum and all of you. I never expected anyone to able to fix what is broken, but being able to talk about it and get perspective is huge.

You are right I don't want to believe the worst in people, and you would think with the state of things in this country right now, I would know better.
I have always wanted to see and believe the best in people...I think the world would definitely be a better place if everyone thought the same. Coming to terms with the idea that someone you love isn't...is tough.

I have been wondering if he even knows consciously this is what he's doing. I don't know that it matters so much as it doesn't change the state of things, but there is something inherently kind of evil about the idea of him behaving this way knowing consciously exactly what he is doing and what his motivations are.

I mentioned earlier that I had written him an email with a list of things that would be helpful when I feel like insecure etc. and he responded yesterday.
This is some of what he said...

"Two different relationships are bound to have different aspects than the other. But it's not as you imagine. All these questions about how she and I relate and how it's different than you and I relate are trying to dissect all these unknowns eventually leading to more and more specifics. I don't think it's healthy. I don't think it comes from a healthy place. Like I said, the only thing that is going to affect our relationship, negatively or positively, is you and I. We've got a pile of shit to deal with. Expecting or requesting this return to this nostalgic romance at this point in our difficult relationship isn't a reasonable request. It's not a bad request, it's not one I oppose at all – in fact I'm very much in favor of it, but we've got work to do. We don't have a ton of that right now, but that's not because of her and I."

"This idea that I bathe her in awe and praise is ridiculous. It's just not the case. I'm trying to open my eyes and my mouth when you look good... and you look great lately. Unfortunately, I get very little in the way of a positive response and you seem to forget pretty quickly that I said anything at all. I tell you how proud I am of your recent return to healthy living. It shows. Your new make-up is bangin. Your new outfits look great. Our love making is absolutely amazing every time. The hotel was bliss. I left on such a high. But again I feel like that didn't last long for you. I don't hold that against you, I just don't know what to do when all this good stuff has such a quick expiration date on it. So it ends up feeling like it's never enough."

"If there's one thing you and I share which is untouchable, impenetrable is the time we've clocked together. These years have carved out so much depth in our hearts which no one else can touch. And we've earned it. Blood, sweat and tears. It's a wonderful thing. And although it's rooted in out parenthood is NOT the only reason we're together, the love doesn't end there. We're building an amazing family together despite all the rocky shit in between."

"At present I'm not in love with anyone. I'm not in love with her. We love each other, yes, but it's not all fluttering stomachs and big starry eyes and all the other symptoms that come with that brand if insanity. Part of me is unsure if I've ever been in love – but the first thing that comes to mind is when our love was blossoming. There's never been anything like that. I hope that's worth something to you, because it means a ton to me."

I had also asked him to give me a list of what his needs are and this was his response:

--Autonomy

Safety

Mutual respect & dignity

100% honesty [in a timely fashion] – this doesn't, however mean getting a play by play of how other relationships work or flutter or whatever. I respect your need to know whether or not I'm in love with someone. If it effects this family, it needs to be brought into the light.

Personal (physical) space when needed

emotional space when needed

non-attachment but connection instead

mutual support whenever applicable, alert each other when it's not
forgiveness

commitment to bettering ourselves as individuals within a family, that we might better support the family and each other.

This I think we can agree on completely from the sound of it: quality attentiveness when I need it most.

Admission of inability to provide attentiveness when applicable.

Your best attempt to understand where I'm coming from (&visa versa)

Gently let me know if I'm not operating @ my best (standards)

Couples counseling is a big one. And with everything we've been through, I'd like to aim towards finding a counselor again. I think we both need it. --


Twelve years is a long time to spend building a life with someone. The fact that he wants to go to counseling again, we have done it before and it did help. I'm in a place now where I really don't know what to do.

The only thing I DO know is that your suggestion of putting myself first is one I need to hear. It's been said by many for years and maybe in doing that I can figure out what it is I want?

He is leaving tonight, spending tonight with friends in this area and then heading down to spend the weekend with her. Her husband is apparently going to be out of town. I have already cried about this morning.

I don't even really know what I am crying about.

My child's well being physically and emotionally is paramount. This weekend would be a good time to check in with my kid. We have great talks when Dad is away usually. I am one of those moms who reads the books and I literally try to do the opposite of what my Mom did.

My Mom wasn't very affectionate, so we hug a lot. She hit me, A LOT. So I will never ever lay a hand on my child. She didn't say I love you very much, so I say it all the time. She made me feel like I was never enough so I tell my child (especially when we are arguing or disagreeing about something) than even right now in the middle of the argument we are having...that "you are enough." It's really important to remind my kid about those things. I also make an effort to remember what it was like to be that age. Every day.

We talk about how being a kid is so much easier than being an adult, but it isn't to a kid. They have nothing to compare it to. Being a kid is hard too, they have so little control over their lives and they are trying to figure out who they are...trying to become their own person. So, I hear you and I might not always do everything right, but oh how I try.

Your Mom sounds like a doll! My Mother DID train me well, you are right. Estranged from her own family, she made a point to estrange me from mine. Especially my father's side. He tried to get custody of me for over a decade and she never told me about it. I grew up thinking he didn't care about me at all, which was made more painful by the birth of my brother because they had a great relationship. I wondered if it was because I was a girl. No, it was my Mom.
She kept him from me, and I didn't find out about it until he passed away at the age of 43. I was 17. My brother, was 9.

She made it just me and her purposefully. I think so she didn't have to worry about losing me to someone else. If she is the only family I have, I won't ever leave her right?

Well it took me a long time, but I finally had to do just that. It backfired, big time. And honestly, I feel bad for her, but I can't do it anymore. It's too toxic.

I am going to try to spend the weekend focusing on my child and myself. Hopefully the tears will give way to new focus and purpose?
 
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Rockit49- Thank you. I am working on it. I need to figure out what I want. It's strange, sometimes I am not even certain what it is exactly that bothers me so much about his relationship with this other woman. I know it pulls at my heartstrings that he is so lovey dovey super affectionate and complimentary with her and that they only get to have fun together...but I used to be in a place where all I cared about was how someone treated me. Now for some reason, it matters how he treats someone else. I don't know why entirely. It hurts. The sex thing, I get. That is difficult to think about as well, but I can somehow deal with that better than the affection and romance. There are plenty of people I am attracted to sexually so I get the physical stuff. I think that is just human nature. It's the idea that he is connecting with her in ways he used to with me. That she gets the guy I met 12 years ago all the time and I never get him anymore that feels like a knife in my heart.
I need to spend the next few days while he is gone doing some serious soul searching and asking myself some hard questions about this situation.
Thanks so much.
 
lafeelicite - I am glad that my openness about everything is somehow therapeutic for you and you are right GalaGirl is amazing.
I know I would be okay without him. Historically when I have a serious relationship that ends, I am single for at least a year before I even contemplate getting into another one with someone else. I do good on my own. I'm not afraid of that.
I am however, still in love with him. Illogical perhaps, but the heart knows no logic right? Twelve years with a family is a hard thing to walk away from. I have a hard time giving up on people I love as well. I know I might have to in this situation, but is really hard to throw in the towel until I feel like I have exhausted every possible option, especially since we have a family.
I'm sorry you're going thru a divorce. I hope you have a good support network in real life and online if you need it.
I send you virtual hugs as well, and yes, the idea that I have been with this guy for over a decade, had a child with him and might not know him at all...to say I am reeling is an understatement.
 
lafeelicite -- glad the thread helps you some also.

kvb -- I guess in time you will find your way. Do the soul searching you need to while he's gone.

I don't even really know what I am crying about.

Because in his letter he told you he's never loved you.

At present I'm not in love with anyone.
Part of me is unsure if I've ever been in love

I'd cry over that! :(

We're building an amazing family together despite all the rocky shit in between.

Where exactly is the "we?" :confused: Your posts sound like he is in and out of the house like it is a hotel and you live like ships in the night.

Why does life have to be "in spite of" shit? Can't just skip the shit? Live shit free?

And is there "we-ification" going on here? Were he takes shared credit like "we" when really X was mostly done by YOU? To me you sound like you basically single mom it over there.

Expecting or requesting this return to this nostalgic romance at this point in our difficult relationship isn't a reasonable request. It's not a bad request, it's not one I oppose at all – in fact I'm very much in favor of it, but we've got work to do. We don't have a ton of that right now, but that's not because of her and I."

It is reasonable to me to expect my spouse to date me sometimes. DH shares that expectation. We cannot always be doing the parent thing and never do couple things. Otherwise at the end of active parenting time we will find we grew apart.

If he were seeing someone else? Us not having couple time together would not be because of (him and his GF) doing things together. It would be because on HIM not making time on his calendar.

I'd be willing to make space on my calendar to spend time with DH even if I were seeing some other BF. Him not making the time on his calendar to attend to THIS side of the V because he's obsessing over GF? That's on him.

If DH told me he doesn't even love the GF he's obsessing over? Yet she gets all his time and attention? Man. That would be worse than him being in love with her and just all caught up in NRE.

What am I? Chopped liver? The maid? Just the bank roll? :confused:

I am going to try to spend the weekend focusing on my child and myself. Hopefully the tears will give way to new focus and purpose?

I hope your weekend is restful and you feel a bit better. I guess you could decide if you want to try couple counseling again or if you are done. With regrets maybe, but just done.

I guess you could do your soul searching that you need to do.

Galagirl
 
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