To be or not to be.

Right now, I think that we are in a kind of funk. We've been there before. Every time we get through it and pit it behind us, I kind of wonder how we survived it. Everything can't always be roses and buttercups. I need to stop expecting it to be. One of the greatest things I've learned this week is that placing my wife on a pedestal and continually telling her that she is my universe and what not can actually be harmful. Don't get me wrong, I learned many other things, but that one is one that I have never heard before, is a little difficult to understand, and is going to be hard to work on. I feel that I've made a lot of progress this week. I hope that she has too but that is not for me to worry about. It may take some doing to figure out what my needs are and how to go about having them met. It may also take some doing to get out of the house, alone. Although I took a big step last weekend, it was only one step. Now, the old proverb is true, a journey of 1000 miles does, indeed, begin with the first step, but if no steps follow the first, then the journey can't continue. I think that's where I am today. Emotionally I am in a good place today. I just need to remember that I am responsible for my own feelings, and to just slow down and take things one day at a time.
 
Re:
"I just need to remember that I am responsible for my own feelings, and to just slow down and take things one day at a time."

Sounds like a good plan.
 
Wow; sometimes people make my head hurt.

She asks for you to give her a vacation, then gets in your face if you decline. How much does she attempt to humiliate you if you in any way appear injured by these attacks?

She reams you out for not reflexively bowing to her wishes. Then apologizes. On average, even though the overt reason may be different, how long before she does it again?

I gotta agree with Spork: if she merely wants a good shagging, C'Springs is a plenty lively place. (Maybe it's "looOOOoooOOOoove!!" but I'm unconvinced she could differentiate emotional depth from NRE anyway.) My first thought: she doesn't want to find out she's hooked up with someone she'll cross paths with downtown.

Look, while I'm always reluctant to accept one party's version as Absolute Truth -- such one-eyed seeing has been used against me plenty of times! -- it's clear from the way that you are telling the tale that you are feeling abused, & by this I don't mean merely "picked on" or "taken advantage of" or "taken for granted" but actually & regularly attacked, intentionally, in a targeted manner.

From sad experience, I've gotta tell you that with some people, you CANNOT win. If you give ground, step by step, then eventually your back will be to the wall, & you'll be attacked for not going further back "just now, all of a sudden, for no good reason." If you stand your ground, you'll be attacked for "being aggressive." If you offer (or ask for) a middle ground, you'll be attacked for being "manipulative."

Even if your SO isn't a fraction as nuts as she (to me) seems, you DEFINITELY need someone to talk to, someone to be on your side, other than a bunch of faceless strangers. Seriously: go find a therapist -- again from experience, I got the most help from a licensed social worker (LSW) who was able to advise on my self-image AND on my legal rights.
 
Hello Inthedark,
I am glad you feel empowered and making progress. And I am glad my commenting helped some :) And glad you can meet Spork.

One of the greatest things I've learned this week is that placing my wife on a pedestal and continually telling her that she is my universe and what not can actually be harmful.
This is a great one thing to take away.
The second thing you seem to have taken away is, that it is a great thing to work on yourself, and that it is indeed possible to slowly change your worldviews and your whole internal world, basically stop being a victim to external circumstances. This is a huuuuge leap, I made mine about two years ago. I still find it somewhat hard not to slip back and to choose direction, but I am so glad I did.
BTW, I am making progress too, I finished school on Friday :)

In the case of my wife, I need to remember to be grateful for what I do get rather than angry or sad about what I don't.
...
I have decided that it is time to step back, allow her to have her fun, and be there to catch her when and if she falls.
It is a great relationship skill to appreciate what you do get.
I am a little concerned you might swing the pendulum too much to the other side now and while stepping back from trying to control her other relationships you might accept also things that really go against your grain. I think you have an inclination for both, to [adore her and neglect your self(-care), because she is more important], and to [control her in order to make the situation about your feelings]. I also think those two are just two expressions of the same fear of abandonment.
But I think this will settle with time and work. You cannot know where the middle is without getting to know yourself deeply, and this is a process.

As for Ravenscrofts post, I do not think you are being intentionally attacked, but I agree with the last line. Hope you can find someone to confine in, be it a therapist, or several real-life friends at least.
 
Ravenscroft,
Thanks for your input and perspective.
while I'm always reluctant to accept one party's version as Absolute Truth
Once upon a time a wise old boss of mine said something to me that has really become one of my core beliefs. There are three sides to every story; your side, there side, and what's really going on. I have tried to remain as objective as possible in my telling of this tale but I realize that I have probably failed at not making myself out to be a victim. IMO, the what's really going on of this story is that there are some complex issues and emotions that are flowing from both parties. That may be oversimplifying things a bit but I think it is as good a synopsis as I can really give right now. I think, reading back through this tread, that I have discovered many of the emotions that I am feeling and that, in just a short time, I have been able, with the help of the other posters, to evolve my thought pattern. At the start, I felt that I was a victim of my wife's narcissism and her various plots to replace me. Now I believe that I have been a victim of my own thought patterns and mind traps. I truly believe that the behavior that she is engaged in has little or nothing to do with me. I certainly may have been, in part, the cause of it, but I am not the reason that it continues. It isn't about ME.
it's clear from the way that you are telling the tale that you are feeling abused, & by this I don't mean merely "picked on" or "taken advantage of" or "taken for granted" but actually & regularly attacked, intentionally, in a targeted manner.
I absolutely agree that at times I feel this way and I have very often expressed this in this forum. I don't, however believe, that it is purely intentional. I think that it is human nature to manipulate situations in order that the outcome may turn out in our favor. I do think that there have been times when my wife has knowingly done this. However, I would not go so far as to say that it is abuse. I don't believe that she has the capacity to understand when and if she is being abusive or using any sort of emotional blackmail on me. I'm not saying that she is stupid, I just don't think that those concepts are within her wheelhouse. Her mind isn't able to grasp those sorts of concepts. It took a couple of years for her to understand what an emotional affair is and she still isn't sure if she believes such a thing is possible. At times, I certainly feel neglected, but not abused. I don't feel that there is any malicious intent even if, on certain days, I lead myself to believe that there is.
you DEFINITELY need someone to talk to, someone to be on your side, other than a bunch of faceless strangers. Seriously: go find a therapist -- again from experience, I got the most help from a licensed social worker (LSW) who was able to advise on my self-image AND on my legal rights.
On this I will agree. That said, not everyone that is giving me advice here is a faceless stranger. Spork is someone that definitely has a face and, although schedules have thus far prevented it, we will have the opportunity to meet and talk face to face. While Tinwen must, due to geography, remain distant, I don't think that she is necessarily faceless and she has, of her own accord, chosen to give to me a few minutes of her time each day to help me in my situation. There are people who I see and talk to everyday that are more strangers to me than these two. In fact, a couple of years ago, I was in counseling with an LCSW. I saw this guy twice a week for three months. At the end of our sessions, when he told me that I was better and no longer needed his help, He didn't know me half as well as the people who have taken the time to read this post over the past week know me and I damn sure didn't know him. He was to me a stranger. I do agree, though, that I need to find a professional who I can talk to. I want to find someone. I think in the long run, I won't be successful, or as successful as I want to be, without professional help. One problem I have had with reaching out to the poly community, however (not so much on this forum, though), is that when I tell my story, I am met with only two points in the way of advice. 1) I am told that I am a shit bag and that I am breaking all the rules of polyamory because I have negative emotions and that I am not allowed to feel jealousy or fear or anger and 2) that I am the problem, the entire problem, nothing but the problem and in order to make my wife's life easier and to prevent her from feeling any sort of negative emotion, I need to go seek counseling so that I can unfuck my own mind and after I do that I need to leave her. I no longer seek advice from those individuals.
Again, thank you for your input. As with all the advice I've gotten here, it is good, it is very unlike the advice that I just described, and I will add many of the things that you said to my tool kit.
 
Tinwen,
My most heartfelt congratulations on finishing school!!!! I recently completed my degree after nearly 12 years of starting and stopping. I know how you must feel. Take pride in your accomplishment and know the satisfaction of a job well done!

I feel that, going forward this week, my focus will be on working on myself. Fighting off the mind traps and just being happy in my own body and own mind. Thank you for cautioning me about the pendulum swing. That is something that I hadn't thought about but will now keep in mind. I can't go from caring too much to complete apathy. That would send confusing signals and probably make things much worse.
One thing that I want to point out is that by letting go, stepping back and trying very hard not to make my wife's situation about me, I have come to realize that I can find joy in her situation. Rather than looking at her and being upset that she is "neglecting" me, I can look at the smiles that come across her face and see the beauty of a woman who is experiencing a moment of bliss and happiness. And ultimately, I benefit.
Happy Valentine's Day!
 
Just to clarify: I strongly recommend finding a good counselor/therapist NOT to somehow "fix" yourself, but to protect yourself -- mentally, emotionally, legally. While I might agree that you do seem to be pulling yourself together, your situation might easily take a wild turn or rapidly escalate. IMNSHO, you need all the centering/grounding you can touch.

Furthermore, please accept this from a strong-willed guy who nevertheless went through a "doormat" phase: you NEED to believe in yourself, or you are likely to attract a very similar subsequent relationship. I was actually in THREE simultaneously :eek: hence the chat-times with the LSW.:D

(fwiw: when I sat down with each of the three, one harumphed away, one agreed to work with me on redefinition, & one became a GREAT friend. Change can be scary, but I felt as though I was breathing freely for the first time in almost a year!)
One problem I have had with reaching out to the poly community ... is that when I tell my story, I am met with only two points in the way of advice.
  • I am breaking all the rules of polyamory because I have negative emotions and I am not allowed to feel jealousy or fear or anger; and
  • I am the problem, the entire problem, nothing but the problem and in order to make my wife's life easier and to prevent her from feeling any sort of negative emotion, I need to go seek counseling so that I can unfuck my own mind and after I do that I need to leave her.
I once said that not only does "becoming poly" NOT turn people into saints, but it attracts some who will claim that it DOES so that they can manipulate others.

Nobody believed me. In fact, I still get crap about that sentiment because I refuse to clap for Tinkerbell & insist on actually fixing stuff.:rolleyes:

Those advice-givers are morons, but you knew that already. Feel free to mention names.:cool:
 
The Dinner

I'm not good at romance. That means that throughout the years, Valentine's Day has become a day more about argument than the Hallmark intended show of romantic love. In fact, I've hated Valentine's Day since the 8th grade when my crush gave the rose that I had given her to the guy that she would eventually call her boyfriend for the next four years! With that in mind, this year I hoped to do something different. With the realization that many of the issued I have been discussing were because I was making things about me, I decided that I really wanted to make Valentines about my wife. What a wonderful evening I gave her!
It started on Tuesday when I confirmed my suspicion that my wife had absolutely no expectations for the day. This was a key to the plan. I knew she had a desire but that she wouldn't voice it to me as it was something that "I would need to figure out." So I tossed her a red herring or two. Ultimately I made reservations for a restaurant in Denver that she has been wanting to go to for over six months. Then, I went to the jewelry store and bought her a ruby ring. Her favorite color is red and she loves rubies! On Friday, I told her that I wanted to celebrate Valentine's Day on Saturday because I suspected that she might be preoccupied with her various suitors on Sunday. She agreed. On Saturday morning, I gave her the ring and said this is for you to wear tonight on our date. She opened it and was moved to tears. She said that she felt bad because she hadn't gotten me anything. I told her that the best gift that she could give me was to enjoy the night that I had planned, to accept and trust that it was all about her and to feel no pressure to reciprocate any of my gestures. I then went to the mall where I stopped by Victoria's Secret and bought her some new lingerie. Then I went and found her a beautiful dress to wear. I stooped at the food court for some lunch and I sent her a text telling her that she had a choice of black or red and to choose her shoes accordingly (I actually bought two dresses). When I returned home and showed her these gifts she was awestruck! She took the time to get all dolled up and In the process, she took several selfies. I knew that none of these picture would find their way to me and that they were for her "Sir" and some of her other paramours. I said nothing and refused to allow myself to feel jealous or angry. I took pride in my ability to control my emotions. I couldn't take my eyes off he legs the would time we were driving. It was a good thing that she was driving because I would have wrecked. We arrived at the restaurant at exactly the right time and were seated immediately. While we were waiting to order, she took out her phone and checked her messages. She began responding to one and I asked who it was. "Sir," she said. I sat quietly while she sent her text. I feigned disinterest but I think my facial expression might have betrayed me. She apologized for checking her messages but I told her, "Tonight is all about you, Sweetheart. If that is something that you want to do then it is ok with me." Surprisingly, she left her phone alone for the entire meal. We talked about several things; our son's parent teacher conference, an upcoming job interview. But ultimately, the conversation settled into one of the more "controversial" topics for us, that of our relationship. An argument was coming, I knew it. The evening was going to be ruined. But that never happened. I told her that there was nothing she could say that could upset me because I controlled my emotions. With this in mind we had a wonderful talk about her D/s relationship, some of her rules, and how she was having a difficult time because her Sir went to bed early and she often missed him at night when she couldn't talk to him. I was able to explain to her how I thought that she was bending her rules and that IMO she was doing this because Sir was only a fantasy to her and who cares if you don't follow the rules of a fantasy at all times. I also explained to her, and I need to clear this up with you all, that I don't want to be her Dom. I don't think I have it in me. But I did say that I'd like to have her as a play partner. After our meal, we made the long trek home where she told me that she wanted to take a special photo as a gift for her Sir and that she needed my help. I decided to do so because It showed me that she trusted me enough to let me in. And because I got to bund her wrists, which played to my own kink. We then got in our PJs and drifted off to sleep. I have to say that it was a wonderful night. If I never get another affectionate moment from my wife, I will always have the memories of last night! Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
 
Damn, you really did give her a wonderful evening. I'm happy for you!
 
I'm really glad that you had such a great night, and I want to applaud you for having so much control over your own emotions, and keeping things good.

On the one hand, if she is being manipulative, if she kinda gets off in some perverse way on tweaking you to jealousy, you are refusing to play what is ultimately a very petty game. You're being above that. Good on you!

On the other hand, if she genuinely is trying to work out what she wants and it's genuinely to explore BDSM and poly and everything, you're being accomodating to her explorations and encouraging to her happiness. Playing with it in a fantasy setting might feel safer to her, to start out with. I know before my first time going to a community event, I was a mess of nerves. I sat in my car for half an hour! And it wasn't even a play party, it was First Fridays at the bar downtown! lol She might also be probing you with this "not really real" D/s relationship, to see how you'd handle the real thing.

Now, a thought I'm taking from people I know, the poly meet group get together thing at Voodoo last week, and stories on this forum...

There is NO "One Right Way." No One True Way to do BDSM, poly, mono, relationships, basically anything. You find what works for you. You do it. You find happiness in it. Or you go on a journey and things dissolve, evolve, break up and form up in time...LIFE. Right? But there's one thing I see a lot. It seems to be hugely helpful if metamours can be friends. I hear a lot of "how to manage jealousy" stories...and most of what they've got in common, is that one partner either doesn't know their hinge's metamour at all, or they aren't friends. I don't think they have to be intimate...but things seem to go best when they're pals. Just looking at the poly configurations I see where things seem smooth and easy (emotionally) and those where it is rocky and difficult and people are struggling with jealousy.

Honestly, for me, as long as there isn't a hostile vibe between me and a meta, I'm cool. I don't want to be anyone's dirty secret, either. So it's either we are friends, or we both know and basically don't care or worry about it. But with men who are metamours of the same hinge woman, I see groups where they are like brothers, super close, and groups where they have no positive relationship and there are hostile or competitive vibes. Not a lot in between.

So to relate this observation to your and your wife... No, you're not likely to become friends with this particular "Sir" but I honestly see him as like her "practice Dom." From how this experience goes, she might find her way to something more real and whole and informed in the future...or she might decide it just isn't for her and shy away from it. But on the bright side, if he's encouraging her to learn and read on this, then that is great! Down the road a bit as things evolve, if she winds up having any serious relationships with other men who are actually in the area and she is seeing them on the regular, if I were in your shoes I'd insist on a chance to at least be a friendly acquaintance. You don't have to be BFF's or anything, but it would be good if you had "buddy feelings" in your heart instead of dark, twingy, competitor feelings when you heard his name or thought of him.
 
When we first began our journey, one of my rules was that I don't want to know and I don't want to meet or talk to my metas. That all changed when I was contacted by him and his wife. It made things real and it allowed me to learn that we are all in this thing together whether we are friends or not. I learned how to be considerate of him and his relationship with my wife. Most importantly, I learned that he wasn't a threat and I wasn't in competition with him. I have asked my wife if I could send Sir a message. I told her that I would let her read it first and I wouldn't go behind her back. She said that by no means would this be ok and it was a hard limit for her. Of course this leads me to believe that there is some sort of conspiracy against me. Am I just making this up? Who, other than those two, actually knows? I do get the dark, twingy feelings and it sucks. But I have to let things play out and I can't let those feelings control me.
 
When we first began our journey, one of my rules was that I don't want to know and I don't want to meet or talk to my metas. That all changed when I was contacted by him and his wife. It made things real and it allowed me to learn that we are all in this thing together whether we are friends or not. I learned how to be considerate of him and his relationship with my wife. Most importantly, I learned that he wasn't a threat and I wasn't in competition with him. I have asked my wife if I could send Sir a message. I told her that I would let her read it first and I wouldn't go behind her back. She said that by no means would this be ok and it was a hard limit for her. Of course this leads me to believe that there is some sort of conspiracy against me. Am I just making this up? Who, other than those two, actually knows? I do get the dark, twingy feelings and it sucks. But I have to let things play out and I can't let those feelings control me.

Yeah I didn't think it would happen with this particular man. But I would at some point indicate to her that if she has a real life, real time D/s relationship with someone local at some point down the line, that's more what I'm talking about.

She walks a very fine line between exploring her desires and disrespecting her marriage. And sub-frenzy can only be used to excuse so much.

I'd be willing to let it ride so long as it's this long distance fantasy thing. But if something similar were going on in a real life interaction...that's a bit different.

Be careful, too...I imagine she is on Fetlife, and there are personal ads and groups and all, and despite the fact that C.Springs has a fantastic community, there are many players on the fringes, or outside of it altogether, who are pretty sketchy. Also, there is tremendous crossover between Fetlife and OK Cupid in this area. Optimally she would come to some community stuff BEFORE she met any particular Dom online (from the local area) and started playing with him privately. That can be dangerous.
 
Therapy

So last night, my wife went to visit a "friend." I was in a good place and riding a high because of the wonderful weekend we had had. I knew what she was going to do but was surprisingly not bothered by it. But I caught myself in a mind trap. I wanted to ask why she needed to go to him when I was right there, ready and willing. Fortunately, I recognized this and I didn't ask the question. Unfortunately, I decided to medicate myself with half a bottle of Scotch in an effort to "relax and take my mind of things." Big mistake. When she got home we were having a good evening but I was way too drunk and I think (I don't remember) that I ended up asking the question. Big mistake number two. We ended up having a huge fight. I said a lot of terrible things. Most of what I said was exactly the opposite of what I was actually feeling. I also ended up wallowing in self pity, trying to make things about me and basically backsliding and ruining all the good that had been created by my hard work last week.
So... Today, I went to see the Behavioral Health folks at the Army hospital where I work. the doctor I saw was very interested and intrigued when I mentioned the words polyamory and open relationship. She was very non judgmental and, although she didn't know a lot about the dynamics of an open relationship, she sat and very patiently listened to me. I felt very respected and validated. She got me back on the Zoloft that I had stopped taking about 18 months ago and she is trying to find me a therapist that deals with non-traditional relationships and can provide me with more help. Until that time I will continue to see her once per week. I feel very good about how this turned out. I am already feeling the effects of the medication. Usually it takes a while to become effective but I can tell it is working. I don't feel afraid and I am having no irrational thoughts. I wish I had done this weeks ago! My wife was also offered and accepted a job today so that tells me that she isn't going to leave anytime soon. That may be good or indifferent. I think that she will return to her happiness set point in the next few days. Currently she isn't speaking to me much, but I don't blame her. I was a monster last night. I hope all will be well but even if it isn't, I've taken the steps that I needed to take to start the journey to wellness.
 
Hello Inthedark,
glad you can seek medical help, and that you feel good about it.
I'll try to break your post down a little bit again.
So last night, my wife went to visit a "friend." I was in a good place and riding a high because of the wonderful weekend we had had. I knew what she was going to do but was surprisingly not bothered by it.
Glad you were in a good place.
But I caught myself in a mind trap. I wanted to ask why she needed to go to him when I was right there, ready and willing. Fortunately, I recognized this and I didn't ask the question.
Nice you managed not to ruin her date by asking at that moment, it might be inapropriate. BUT negative feelings not expressed in any way tend to backfire, as you experienced. This question seems to bother you a lot. I think you should seek a better understanding (of your wife) here. Perhaps find a quiet spot once you two are okay again, and just ask for an honest talk.
I also suggest to phrase the question differently, since it sounds slightly offensive/blaming.
"Look, i am sorry again for what I did that evening, I didn't mean most of the things I said at all, but one question does bother me. Could you please help me understand the reasons you want other men?" Then listen without judgement. If it becomes too much for you, thank her, ask to continue another time, and ask for a hug (hugs work great for my anxiety ;)).
(My guess?
- she seeks variety
- she feels connection to others, and misses them - one person cannot make up for missing another)
Unfortunately, I decided to medicate myself with half a bottle of Scotch in an effort to "relax and take my mind of things." Big mistake.
BTW, your words and actions seem in contradiction here. You say you aren't bothered by her going to see another, but you need to relax and you have (self)blaming questions.

So, it seems you need another coping mechanisms to "relax and take your mind of things", so that alcohol isn't your default. I guess you know this :) I can relate, sometimes I don't have enough pleasurable things to do on my own, so I ... well I don't fall into drinking, but certainly into depression. It is hard to break for me.
I realize you have social anxiety, so I won't recomend socializing (I would to anyone else), except perhaps for this forum. Could be your defautl - feeling jealous, write a blog entry? Or, you could have good books or movies ready, or go for a walk, learn to photograph or whatever hobby. It needs to be something that is relativly simple and promotes positive feeling in yourself.
Currently she isn't speaking to me much, but I don't blame her. I was a monster last night.
Well ... yes :/
So you made a mistake. You did a an amend by seeking help, so that it doesn't repeat. Sounds like the best you can do. Make sure to tell her that you take responsibility and about the action steps you are taking to prevent those evenings.

Good luck :)
 
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Also when asking yourself why she seeks sexual activity elsewhere when you are right there, there are very basic answers to that.

I've noticed that a lot of men kind of rank women (mostly based on looks) in a scale, the old "1-10" thing, and consider one woman partner to be superior to another, plain and simple. Though their tastes and idea of what defines "hot" may vary, they definitely see women as more, or less desirable.

Women, I think, (and this is painting in REALLY broad strokes here) do something I call "grading on the long form." We value a multitude of factors in men. Some women place more weight on looks, some on financial security or ambition, others on intellect or humor or talent or similar interests, kindness to animals and/or children, you name it. We have a MULTITUDE of factors and those factors carry different weight with different ladies. Women will tell you, every one of us has had a male partner that other women said, "I don't know what you see in him." Well that's ok. WE know what we see in him. And no man scores 100% in ALL THE THINGS. Which means that each one is unique, irreplaceable, and not interchangeable, AT ALL.

Now your wife...she might have fallen out of love with you. Or not. But that has zip, zero, nada to do necessarily with her wanting someone else. Those two things must be looked at separately. Although if she needs a lifestyle that is continuously hurtful to you because hey...not everyone can comfortably do poly and that's ok!...well, that's another issue, too. That is a compatibility issue. Not an "I'm not good enough" issue. If her love for you still burns, it is because you are YOU. She doesn't want you to change to fill other needs, she wants to find some other person who has a whole different set of characteristics for that. She wants to love you for you, and love them for them, and have both.

I ran into this issue with both the Analyst, and to a lesser degree, Hefe, with my need for a sadist in my life. I told them that I was looking for one more to fill that need. The Analyst insisted that he could Dominate me and fill my needs. Hefe went so far as to start learning Florentine flogging technique. That's cool that they are able and willing to DO the things...but that doesn't mean that either of them have a natural streak of real sadism. They both are lovers, with too much concern for my comfort and safety, to really hurt me. And neither of them derives the same energy and satisfaction from it. It's like...you can take an introvert to a party, but you can't make them get energy from being social the way an extrovert will. So I took my relationship with Zen from just play partners at parties, to a more private, intimate, and sexual relationship, and now my needs are met. Both Analyst and Hefe seemed mildly put out that I felt the need to do that, despite their protestations that they understand and it's ok...I can read the vibes...but they are willing to accept that this is a thing I need to do, and as long as Zen doesn't damage me too much for them to enjoy me sexually the next night we don't have a problem!

But the moral of that story is that my love for Analyst and Hefe (and Fire, for that matter) is in no way lessened by me also loving Zen. They are all completely different people. One might be better for one kind of experience, and one might be better for another, but that doesn't mean one is inherently better or worse or that I'm choosing one over another. And frankly, if one of them told me to choose between them, the one demanding that would be out of my life, with all my best wishes and fond farewells. In analogy form (because I love analogies) in my spare time I might enjoy soaking in a hot tub, or reading a great book, or going and riding roller coasters. The hot tub does not get to demand that I never go visit the roller coasters again. It don't work that way!

Maybe instead of asking her why she feels the need to go see other men, ask her one day to write down the things she loves about you, things she has enjoyed with you, and things she would LIKE to do with you in the future. Because what you really need to determine, ultimately, is (independently of whatever she wants with anyone else) where you stand with her love. Unfortunately you have to be brave enough to take the answer to that if it's not what you want to hear...and that would be hard for anyone. Again, I cannot say one way or another because I don't know her.

Your jealousy feelings have more to do with being insecure (you don't really know how she feels or where you stand with her) than they do with other men, methinks.
 
Maybe instead of asking her why she feels the need to go see other men, ask her one day to write down the things she loves about you, things she has enjoyed with you, and things she would LIKE to do with you in the future. Because what you really need to determine, ultimately, is (independently of whatever she wants with anyone else) where you stand with her love. Unfortunately you have to be brave enough to take the answer to that if it's not what you want to hear...and that would be hard for anyone. Again, I cannot say one way or another because I don't know her.

Your jealousy feelings have more to do with being insecure (you don't really know how she feels or where you stand with her) than they do with other men, methinks.
I guess this is on spot :/
 
A chance

Well, after a very bad week, we may have a ray of hope. I think I am being given a chance to prove myself. This has been one hell of a week for my wife. After a disastrous post hook-up Monday night, things got much better for her. On Tuesday she was offered a great job that will pay her much more that she had ever dreamed she would make with the amount of experience she has. On Wednesday we found out that the lump her doctor discovered in her breast was just dense tissue and not cancer (YAY!!!). On Thursday, she finally got to go meet one half of a couple she has been talking to (I hope that this pair are the ones that she can really form a poly group with) and she had a wonderful afternoon with him. On Thursday night we found out that our daughter made the Honor Roll (she struggled with her grades throughout middle school and we were very concerned with how she would do in high school). And yesterday, her fucked up husband took her around to two sex shops and to Victoria's Secret and bought her all manner of nice things.
For me, it was a very hard week. Sleeping on the couch, wondering if my mind and my capacity for rational thought had completely left me. But I took the advice of many of the folks on here and I took the steps to get some help. I am now in therapy and I am back on meds after 18 months. I had forgotten how wonderful it is to be able to slow my mind and think rational thoughts. And even though things have been difficult, I can say that I am happy for the first time in months. I still have problems at night, when I'm lying on the couch wanting to be in the bed with my wife. The meds have usually worn off by then and my mind starts to race. But usually, I am so tired that that doesn't last long and I drift off to fitful sleep. Fitful because I'm on the couch not because bad thoughts creep in and wake me. On Thursday, my wife and I SLOWLY started to communicate again. Her mid day rendezvous with her new paramour certainly helped. And my reaction, one of true happiness for her, certainly did my cause no harm. On our shopping trip yesterday we acted as if nothing had ever happened on Monday. It was a nice time. I apologized for what I see as trying to disrupt and/or destroy her outside relationships. When we returned home, she decided that she would pull out all of her lingerie, new and old, and do a little selfie fashion show for her Dom (but mostly for herself I think). Much of this stuff she hasn't fit into in quite a while but she has lost a lot of weight lately. I could tell that it did her good to see herself in those outfits. I even got to get in on the action. She let me dress her. The best thing (because I want to be a rigger) was that she let me tight lace her favorite corset! Then when she was all done, I was given another great surprise. She allowed me to look at all the photos. It was a good evening. Unfortunately, I had to sleep on the couch again but that was ok. My son likes to stay up late on Fridays and he usually falls asleep in the living room. He and I watched part of a movie together. I fell asleep during it and he came and tucked me in.
I think that there is a chance things are returning to normal. By normal, I mean the way they were nearly two years ago. With luck, we are on our way to recovery. Thanks to everyone for all the help, advice and concern!:D
 
Glad to hear things are improving.
 
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