Trust My Metamour?

Thanks for sharing your story. I did bring up the vasectomy option last night and this morning. It's going to take a lot of convincing, if I really want to push for it. His reasons are similar to your ex-h. We are not fanatics, but we try to maintain a natural balance. We rarely take medicine or seek any medical treatment considered optional. In addition, he is worried about impacts it could have on his drive, stamina, etc. He doesn't care that those side effects are rare, it's too big of a risk for him. Lastly, he does have a bit of an inferiority complex. I think the ability to make babies is tied to his masculinity. He constantly worries that his dick is not big enough. He asked me "do you want to make my already small cock weaker? "

Although his reasons are based in fear rather than fact, I have to respect that. Unless I see a sprout coming from the vasectomy seed I planted, I am not gong to bring it up again. Which leads me back to thinking I just need to make a leap of faith.

He's being rather obtuse, isn't he? Why would he think that sperm not flowing into his semen would effect his sex drive and stamina? These are myths promoted by ignorant people and he is basing his fears on incorrect assumptions instead of the facts.

He will still ejaculate after a vasectomy, there just would be no sperm in it. Sperm make up only 2 to 5 per cent of the ejaculate so he would not even notice any difference in the volume of semen. About two months after the procedure (or 15-20 ejaculations), they test for sperm count to make sure that it has all been flushed out, and eventually sperm production slows way down - but he will still cum! And sex drive has to do with hormones, not sperm count. There is no evidence that vasectomy decreases testosterone levels or sex drive.

You don't have to avoid a topic and kowtow to his fears just because he's uneasy about it - you know? If we all lived that way, nothing practical would ever get done in this world and common sense would go the way of the dodo bird.

I think you might want to show him this thread and even invite him to participate, so you can find a solution.
 
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I actually worked in a urology theatre for a bit and loss of sex drive is a risk of vasectomy. They say it in the consent talk.

Let's lay out the facts.

Wife is scared girlfriend will conceive and keep the baby. This will prompt wife to end marriage. Husband increases risk of this by shunning the use of barrier contraception despite allegedly not wanting girlfriend to conceive. Husband also refuses to lower risk substantially with surgical option.

These facts highlight that he doesn't see her conceiving as the devastating risk that you do so isn't particularly interested in lowering the risk any more than she has lowered it already with the pill. It's simply not the priority that it is to you. Obviously having a baby with her wouldn't be the end of his world, just his marriage.
 
I actually worked in a urology theatre for a bit and loss of sex drive is a risk of vasectomy. They say it in the consent talk.

Let's lay out the facts.

Wife is scared girlfriend will conceive and keep the baby. This will prompt wife to end marriage. Husband increases risk of this by shunning the use of barrier contraception despite allegedly not wanting girlfriend to conceive. Husband also refuses to lower risk substantially with surgical option.

These facts highlight that he doesn't see her conceiving as the devastating risk that you do so isn't particularly interested in lowering the risk any more than she has lowered it already with the pill. It's simply not the priority that it is to you. Obviously having a baby with her wouldn't be the end of his world, just his marriage.

That assessment is spot on. He has said that he doesn't want more kids for the reasons I've given previously, but wouldn't be unhappy if he impregnated either of us. I asked him if he was banking on me eventually coming to terms with it if it happened. He really didn't give an answer, but I firmly believe he doesn't think I would actually leave him.
 
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So, if you take that leap of faith, what kind of reassurances do you have for (A) STD protection, and (B) what happens if she does get pregnant (say she goes on antibiotics, which reduces the effectivity of the pill)?

These are what-ifs that should be discussed now, and not in an "OMG!" moment, when emotions are at their highest.

A. We have all been tested. I am mono and so is his gf, so unless he introduces another girl in the mix, we're safe STD wise.

B. I have said that I could not handle it and would end the marriage. This is not meant to be a threat but a true reflection of how I think I would react. Of course this is all a what-if scenario and I could feel entirely different if it really did happen, but I think that's doubtful.

C. I noticed your blog in your signature. So nice to hear the mono perspective. We're kind of a minority on here.
 
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Re (from london):
"I actually worked in a urology theatre for a bit and loss of sex drive is a risk of vasectomy. They say it in the consent talk."

Ah, well, even then, they have these little pills called Cialis and Viagra.

I wonder if the loss of sex drive is due to the brain thinking, "I'm not a real/complete man anymore." One can psyche oneself into limpness, I know it by experience.

And if that's true, then perspective could make all the difference.

But what is hubby's perspective? I am suspicious that on some level, he (secretly?) *hopes* he'll get his girlfriend pregnant. I don't know the man well but from what I've read on this thread, it seems possible to me.

Re (from LovelyLady):
"I asked him if he was banking on me eventually coming to terms worth it if it happened. He really didn't give an answer, but I firmly believe he doesn't think I would actually leave him."

Yeah, that kinda confirms my suspicions. D'oh!

What if the guy wants more kids, period? Is that something you can live with?
 
Yeah, that kinda confirms my suspicions. D'oh!

What if the guy wants more kids, period? Is that something you can live with?

He has never said he wants more kids, so I would be surprised if that were true.

Can I live with it? I love kids and to be honest, there are moments where I think we should have another one. The moment comes to a crashing halt when I remember that I am 43 and how much money a baby costs. I regret not having another one 3 or 4 years ago but 3 months after I had my daughter I was laid off and money was tight for a few years. I have reestablished my career, so we're doing better than ever financially. I just think that the decision to have a baby can't be an emotional one. My head has to overrule my heart.

Can I live with her having his baby? Not now, no. Maybe things will become easier as the relationship progresses and I'll change my mind, but doubtful. My daughter is my number 1 priority. There has never been a time I have pictured wanting to come out or ever thought coming out would be good for her/me. I know others have done it successfully with substantial gains for the family, but everyone's situation is different.
 
I like how he said, "Do you want to make my small cock even weaker?" Emotional blackmail.
 
Re (from LovelyLady):
"He has never said he wants more kids, so I would be surprised if that were true."

Perhaps he is ambivalent about it? He doesn't want more technically, yet on some emotional level perhaps it would be a validation of his manhood?

Eh, I think I am sticking my nose too far into other people's business, so I won't complain if you disregard my questions as appropriate. In any case, you are kind of between a rock and a hard place, and just have to ride this out for the moment (I think).
 
Re (from LovelyLady):


Perhaps he is ambivalent about it? He doesn't want more technically, yet on some emotional level perhaps it would be a validation of his manhood?

Eh, I think I am sticking my nose too far into other people's business, so I won't complain if you disregard my questions as appropriate. In any case, you are kind of between a rock and a hard place, and just have to ride this out for the moment (I think).

All noses welcome! Yes, I absolutely believe that his ability to make babies is a validation of his manhood. Maybe he does secretly hope he'll get her pregnant, I don't know. ARGH, worrying about the what if is driving me crazy and I certainly don't want to turn this into a self fulfilling prophecy. Am I willing to let this play out in the hopes that my worst case scenario never comes to fruition? I think I am. At least for now. Things are still new with her, so I'll see how I feel when the relationship settles in.
 
So my over arching question to this post was should I trust my metamour? I think I'm back full circle again to this question. I feel like she would prefer me to just disappear and I can tell you that I have definitely wished she would disappear on occasion. It was never this difficult with his last gf of 8 years. She was a mature woman who had obligations to work and family, outside of my hubby. They got together occasionally, much of the time when I had plans/obligations of my own. The new gf is just 25 years old, has oodles of free time and not a lot of responsibilities. Oh to be young again! I don't trust that she will respect my time with my hubby and will selfishly steam roll over me. To give full disclosure, I do have a history of being over accommodating because I think it's the right thing to do, even if it makes me uncomfortable.

Do most people jump into a relationship with their metamour feet first and assume her intentions are honorable until proven otherwise? Or is it better to proceed with caution until the trust is earned?
 
I think you need to decide whether your husband is trustworthy or not. Your husband isn't thinking "I'm going to avoid pregnancy with girlfriend at all costs" and that is the issue. If we have trustworthy partners, it doesn't matter what our metamour's intentions are.
 
I think you need to decide whether your husband is trustworthy or not. Your husband isn't thinking "I'm going to avoid pregnancy with girlfriend at all costs" and that is the issue. If we have trustworthy partners, it doesn't matter what our metamour's intentions are.

This.

If it were me (which it's not), I'd be keeping the metamour at arms length and giving it a wait-and-see approach. I wouldn't be bending over backwards to be her buddy, but I'd be cordial and respectful. And I'd want my partner to be trustworthy enough to stand up for our relationship, if he needed to.

I'd resist putting it all at the feet of the metamour (is she trustworthy, is she looking to have children with your husband), and instead realize that if your husband decides to go along with her wishes (if it is her wish to get pregnant), then he's complicit in that as well.

One of my missteps in the beginning of my relationship with Chops was to resent Xena for damn near everything: for "turning" him poly, for pulling him away from me for a week when I was moving into my new house (and needed help with projects) so she could move at the same time, etc. Once I vomited it all out during a talk among the three of us, I admitted the resentment, but also that part of it was misplaced. If I were going to be mad at her for something he willingly did, then that wasn't fair, and I was idealizing my partner and not seeing reality.

We've all learned how to navigate things a bit better since then, though (phew). Just wanted to provide a, "Hey, I fell down here! Watch that hole!" perspective. :)
 
Re (from LovelyLady):
"I don't trust that she will respect my time with my hubby and will selfishly steamroll over me."

Methinks, though, that your hubby would have to act as her accomplice if she were to succeed. Wouldn't he?

It sounds like she could steamroll over you unintentionally, due to her lack of experience and thus her lack of appreciation for how much you have on your plate.

If you can scrounge up the time and occasion for the undertaking, you may want to consider investing some (platonic) fellowship into your own relationship with your metamour. It might give her a chance to gain a better understanding of your predicament.

Re:
"Do most people jump into a relationship with their metamour feet-first and assume her intentions are honorable until proven otherwise? or is it better to proceed with caution until the trust is earned?"

My personal mode of operation is to assume innocence til guilt be proven. Doesn't mean I make no plans for the worst-case scenarios though.

I see that you're receiving some harmonized advice, and some contradicting advice. You'll have to figure out what your own best options are, which is not easy to do and you're certainly in a pickle.
 
I think you are being over-accomodating to protect your h's self esteem. He had a previous gf closer to his age? But now that is over, he's 42 and he'd landed a hot 25 year old. Mid-life crisis. Has he bought a red sports car yet?
 
I think you need to decide whether your husband is trustworthy or not. Your husband isn't thinking "I'm going to avoid pregnancy with girlfriend at all costs" and that is the issue. If we have trustworthy partners, it doesn't matter what our metamour's intentions are.

That is a great point and I do trust my husband. I am a person who very much likes to plan/control outcomes so relying on trust doesn't come easy to me. Action to ensure results is more my style. Hence why I am in this conundrum.

If it were me (which it's not), I'd be keeping the metamour at arms length and giving it a wait-and-see approach. I wouldn't be bending over backwards to be her buddy, but I'd be cordial and respectful. And I'd want my partner to be trustworthy enough to stand up for our relationship, if he needed to.

I'd resist putting it all at the feet of the metamour (is she trustworthy, is she looking to have children with your husband), and instead realize that if your husband decides to go along with her wishes (if it is her wish to get pregnant), then he's complicit in that as well.

One of my missteps in the beginning of my relationship with Chops was to resent Xena for damn near everything: for "turning" him poly, for pulling him away from me for a week when I was moving into my new house (and needed help with projects) so she could move at the same time, etc. Once I vomited it all out during a talk among the three of us, I admitted the resentment, but also that part of it was misplaced. If I were going to be mad at her for something he willingly did, then that wasn't fair, and I was idealizing my partner and not seeing reality.

We've all learned how to navigate things a bit better since then, though (phew). Just wanted to provide a, "Hey, I fell down here! Watch that hole!" perspective. :)

The metamour and I have arranged to get together next week for a wine and movie night, just girls. I am not looking for her to be my BFF. I think the approach I am going to take is more to call to her sensibilities. Just more of a "hey, I'm his girl too. We're kind of in the same situation. Don't walk all over me and I won't walk over you" approach. I'm hoping that the inclination to be conniving will be more difficult if we relate to each other on the same level. We'll see how it goes.

Methinks, though, that your hubby would have to act as her accomplice if she were to succeed. Wouldn't he?

It sounds like she could steamroll over you unintentionally, due to her lack of experience and thus her lack of appreciation for how much you have on your plate.

If you can scrounge up the time and occasion for the undertaking, you may want to consider investing some (platonic) fellowship into your own relationship with your metamour. It might give her a chance to gain a better understanding of your predicament.

My personal mode of operation is to assume innocence til guilt be proven. Doesn't mean I make no plans for the worst-case scenarios though.

I see that you're receiving some harmonized advice, and some contradicting advice. You'll have to figure out what your own best options are, which is not easy to do and you're certainly in a pickle.

Yes, you are right about my husband needing to act as accomplice. I do trust him and know that he will look out for our best interest. I have actually learned a few things about my metamour that help me understand some of her behaviors. She has had 2 brothers and her mother all die, in separate incidences, all before she was 20. In addition, her "first time" was a date rape situation. That's a lot for a young girl to handle and explains why she would want to keep those she loved close.

I think you are being over-accomodating to protect your h's self esteem. He had a previous gf closer to his age? But now that is over, he's 42 and he'd landed a hot 25 year old. Mid-life crisis. Has he bought a red sports car yet?

I would agree that I have a tendency to protect him, try to make things easier for him and try to make him feel valued. I think that's part of my role as his wife.

His previous gf was not actually closer to his age, just on the opposite end of the spectrum as his current gf. His previous gf is 60. He went from 18 years older than him to 17 years younger. I'm sure the dramatic age difference between the two supports the mid-life crisis theory. I did ask him a week or so ago if he thought he was going through that and he said he didn't think so. He really seems to like the new gf, they have a lot in common and spend just as much time talking as they do having sex.
 
It sounds like you're feeling the trust and understanding now perhaps more than before. Seems like a good sign.
 
It Happened - Cowgirl Got Pregnant

This morning I found out that my worst fear came true, my metamour got pregnant. For the last month and a half, things between she and my hubby had really cooled down. He had shared with me that he felt she was not ready for a relationship like this and he was tired of dealing with her canceling plans, having hot and cold emotions as well as her immaturity. They went from 3 nights a week to once every 3 weeks. Simultaneously, he patched things up with his old girlfriend of eight years, who I adore. I really thought I was going to be free of this cowgirl. Until yesterday. She contacted him with a sob story about a friend's death. She said she loved and missed him and could they get together.

He loves this girl and did not want to see her hurting, so he agreed to see her. She came over late last night. They talked, had sex and then she dropped the bombshell. She told him the reason she has been so distant and cold is that she had stopped taking birth control, got pregnant and had an abortion. HOLY FUCK!

I have so many emotions going on I don't know where to start. However, my man seems to be taking it all very well, which baffles me. Here's how I see it:
1. She chose to stop taking the pill, enabling this situation to happen. Was this a case of her trying to trap him and then having second thoughts so she gets an abortion.
2. She kept it from him. She didn't grant him the decency of giving him a chance to weigh in on how to handle. Ultimately it is her decision, but the baby was his too.
3. She claims she had the abortion because she knew how upset I'd be. Fuck that, she owns this not me. I honestly think there's a chance she is lying.

I can't tell him not to see this girl anymore, but I did tell him it's best if I don't see or talk to her ever again. From my perspective, she's toying with my life and I will do whatever is necessary to protect our family. I think I would become violent, so it's best to avoid her. I think what's hardest is that my hubby doesn't see her actions the same way. It appears he sees it more of a selfless act on her part. I don't know why he's not kicking this girl to the curb. Is NRE really that debilitating to your senses? Is he in shock possibly?

I don't trust her. I don't like her. I don't think she's good for him and this bombshell gave me even more reason to feel this way. How is he taking this so easily?
 
Technically, we don't know what really happened, all we have is her word. I don't think she can be tested to confirm that she was recently pregnant, can she? and I don't think she can be tested to see if she stopped taking the birth control pills.

Her story doesn't make a whole lot of sense. She became so determined to have his child that she stopped taking the birth control pills, yet when all went according to her plans she suddenly changed her mind and decided to abort? If that's how it really went down, then she's got some cognition issues.

If you really want to put your foot down, you can tell your husband that if he doesn't stop seeing this girl, you'll divorce him. Not sure if you're ready to take that hard of a line yet; you'll have to think about it.

I can't tell what her angle is. It's possible she doesn't have an angle, she's just really vacuous in the reasoning department. I know this puts you in a damned uncomfortable position and I sympathize.
 
Technically, we don't know what really happened, all we have is her word. I don't think she can be tested to confirm that she was recently pregnant, can she? and I don't think she can be tested to see if she stopped taking the birth control pills.

Her story doesn't make a whole lot of sense. She became so determined to have his child that she stopped taking the birth control pills, yet when all went according to her plans she suddenly changed her mind and decided to abort? If that's how it really went down, then she's got some cognition issues.
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I absolutely LOATHE it when females play a "pregnancy/lost pregnancy/abortion-card" to manipulate men...makes me see RED.:mad:

Yes, accidental pregnancies happen. Yes, people have to make decisions during a troubling time. BUT, there is 99% effective birth control available so this SHOULD be a rare occurrence.

IF she stopped taking birth control without telling him - DICK MOVE! DTMFA! Now, run, go! (I know this isn't within your control but this would be a 100% dealbreaker for me.)

If she did this, and came to her senses, and aborted - THEN why bring it up AT ALL? She didn't include anyone else in the decision making - why drag them into it NOW?

Kevin - I don't think that she can actually be tested, at this point, to see if she really did stop taking birth control, however, pregnancy hormones do stick around for a while (usually several weeks) after a termination. So a serum quantitative beta-hcg could be done ... which is only useful if it is positive. It can validate her story if elevated but can't be used to actually prove that she is lying if negative (some people's bodies get rid of the hormone faster than others).

Frankly, I don't see the point of even bothering to confirm her story. It would have been unethical to let someone believe you were on birth control when you weren't...so would adding lying to the list of wrongs even make a difference at this point?

DISCLAIMER: I'm a little heated on this subject right now - a friend of mine recently went through an experience with this. His (ex)girlfriend, who was supposedly infertile, claimed she was pregnant - if she conceived in June it could have been his or her on-and-off again other bf's and the bleeding that she had in July was "implantation bleeding". If she conceived in July (and the late bleeding in July was her period) then it wasn't his. Now she is back with her on-and-off again bf and "not pregnant". He is - DONE!

CrazyGirl (Dude's last girlfriend) would pull this repeatedly - they'd break up, they'd start talking, "my period's late", drama, repeat, REALLY? (Her other common story was that, after they broke up, she started dating again and got raped. - Again, rape is a REAL and COMMON experience for women, and should not be minimized; BUT...if you think someone is capable of lying about such momentous things...AAACCKK!:confused:)

Vent over...

LovelyLady - I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Yes, NRE can really blind people. But how much trouble/drama can this girl really be worth? I think that all you can do, personally, is to minimize the effect that she has on your life. You don't like her, you don't trust her, you don't think she is good for your hubby. But it is his decision. YOU can decide that you don't want to 1.) interact with her 2.) see her 3.) HEAR any more about the trainwreck that she is creating in her life (and your husband's).

The problem that I see is that, IF she gets knocked up (again?) and keeps the baby THEN he (and you) are on the hook for child-support, etc. I don't really see any way around this unless he is willing to man up and ALWAYS use condoms ... or get a vasectomy.
 
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