Scheduling and metamour friction.

sonyablu

New member
Ok. Please bear with me. I'm writing this as much to try to understand what is happening here, as I am to get input on this situation.

Background:
I'm in an N relationship structure, where I'm one of the tails. I am involved with my SO, who is involved with another woman (M), who is also involved with another woman (MSO).

Me -- SO -- M -- MSO

I have kids, SO has one but doesn't live with them, M has none, and MSO has kids. SO and I are more nesting than SO and M, and from what I can tell, M and MSO are nesting too. I have made it clear from day one that I'm not just looking for a boyfriend, but a life partner. The kind of deeper relationship with someone, where you are sharing life goals, establishing roots, etc. I was married previously (the kids are a "product" of that... not sure if product is the right word there), and I know that while I can be with multiple people, I really am more one deep relationship with other more flexible/casual relationships. Not saying that it's not possible that I could have a deep relationship with more than one at the same time, just that I do tend to strongly pair bond. I don't think my SO is quite this way, that he could perhaps establish more equally deep relationships with two or three at once, but he is also after deep connection more than casual. Not that he doesn't like casual, you know, for fun and excitement :)....

Schedulewise, I have 4 days a week with my SO, and M has 2. The other day is SO's free day to do what he wants - 90% of the time he ends up spending it with me. Other than the 2 that M has with SO, she spends most of the rest of her time with MSO, as far as I know. The original schedule was kinda drawn up by SO and M, based on the days that M has free time. In her words: "These are the days that I cleared in my schedule so that he could spend time with me if he wished." I was then shown this schedule, after they'd talked it over to OK. At the time, I was a little bit annoyed that I was kinda just left out of the original discussions about this, but the schedule did offer me more time, so I didn't want to seem like I was just nitpicking. I did however ask that these sort of decisions not be decided without actually involving me early on in the process. I said that I didn't like feeling like I didn't have a say, that my life was being decided/directed for me, which the way this was handled - that's how it felt a little.

OK, so that's the background.

The Situation:
Over recent months a pattern has developed - when M wants to do things with SO on days that it was decided were days he was spending with me, SO informs me that M wants a day for XYZ, or that she's received an invite and has asked him to go. Pretty much all communication of plans is done through SO to M, and vice-versa. This hasn't always been the case, but for some reason, it just seems to have become the norm. When I noticed this happening, I started mentioning that I'd really like it if M talked to me about these things and not just go through him. Mostly to him, though I'm pretty sure I've also said this to M on more than one occasion too.

While these times weren't in the realm of "Oh my god, this is really fucking irritating", I did have concerns that M was not actually talking to me about these plans. Firstly, SO has had issues with feeling he's being pulled in two directions previously, and I didn't want him to keep being the go-between. Secondly, again it basically came across as being told that this was the plan, and I didn't like the position it put me where I'd potentially have to say "No, I'd rather you didn't go with your girlfriend to XYZ, because I had plans". That is a sucky position to be in. Thirdly, to be honest, SO couldn't organise his way out of a plastic bag even if his life depended on it. He has attention/memory/organisation issues. He tries really REALLY hard to remember to tell me stuff, but he still mucks up. It would be just so much better for everyone if everyone was involved in planning these things, so at least for my part, I'd actually know what time approx I was going to see my partner, and SO doesn't feel like shit for things he actually finds difficult. Finally, it kinda smacks of someone not actually giving a shit about their partner's other relationship, and the impact they may be having on it. Maybe this last one is unfair, but to be honest, I'm starting to wonder stuff like this more and more these days. Probably something I should work on.

Well, then this happened: M received an invite in Nov to an event that is on the beginning of March. The event falls on one of the days that SO spends with me. She asked both SO and MSO if they wanted to come. SO mentioned this to me, but he didn't know the details. I went, well I guess so, but can you find out more details please? It turned out that the event was some distance away, so they would have to overnight. I get informed of this, that he'll be back sometime midafternoon the next day, which also happens to be one of "my" days. Then... well apparently there are discussions with M and MSO, about travelling and something about maybe needing to travel the day before? I ask SO for more info, because... oh look... that's ANOTHER day that is "my" time with SO. It is now mid Feburary, and I am possibly having 3 days that I'd be spending with my SO being planned over. My SO is trying to keep me informed about things, but he is clearly not the one planning this trip, and I've been told by him more than once "I don't know, but I'll ask". Oh and then I realise that NOT ONCE has M talked to me. Not once, in over 2 months has she mentioned it, or even checked if I might have had plans, or anything.

So I finally went "Nope, this isn't OK", and I had a talk with her last week. I mentioned that I really REALLY needed her to actually communicate with me about these things, cause now it looks like I am losing a good chunk of time that I would think I could safely assume is my scheduled time. And I still don't even know if we are swapping days, or what time roughly my partner is going to be absent - which, when he's actually a part of a family? That's a bigger deal. She literally said in response, "I don't think I should have to talk to you about these sort of plans." I pointed out a lot of the stuff that I discussed above, that yes, I agree that my SO should be talking to me, but that it wasn't just his responsiblity to make this poly thing work. That we need communication, and that to be honest, I kinda feel like she's shitting on my relationship by basically ignoring that these plans are seriously impacting my time with my partner. (Ok, yeah, that last part probably wasn't helpful. :s) In the end, she got really snarky, went "Fine. I will tell you everything. All of it. Every single little thing we get up to." Then she up and left. I have received one message from her since then about the timing, which I thanked her for, and I asked about whether there were discussions about days being swapped. She has informed me she will discuss it with SO next time she sees him. So that's a... well... at least I'm now getting the info I need. But given the way the conversation went down, and the fact it looks like she's partially blocked me on FB now... I don't really feel this turned out a win/win situation.

So yeah. Yes, I recognise that if I had approached her earlier, a lot of this would not have happened... But these "planning things for days that my SO is usually with me" moments have never been this major before, so wasn't fully expecting to hear this attitude from her. Especially when I thought she'd agreed that open communication between us was a good thing previously. A single day where I'm not approached can easily be put down to "sorry, I just forgot", or similar... but this situation? OMG! And the fact that she basically told me that she doesn't think she should even talk to me about these plans? That it should all just be SO's responsibility to talk to me? That just seems so not ok, especially as given his issues, it's like setting him up for a fall! Just seems so unfair to put him in that position.

I am more than willing to change how I deal with this sort of issue - be more proactive for example instead of waiting for her to contact me... But I don't think this is all just my shit, or failure of communication on the part of my SO. Especially when M pretty much insinuated that I was blaming her for problems I have with SO (even though our relationship is the strongest its ever been, and we are actually communicating better than we ever have before), and wouldn't even acknowledge the possibility that she may also have been a little less helpful in this situation.

Thoughts? Advice? Just... Jeeze this poly thing can be really freckin' hard to do! :s
 
Hi sonyablu,

I can understand your frustration about the way M has been acting. I would almost suggest saying, "No, I do not want to give up any of my days with SO," but I'm afraid that would just make it worse. I would say SO should be the one to talk to you, however M seems to be taking the planning out of his hands, so then M should be the one to talk to you. There are things you can do to mitigate the problem, but you still need M's cooperation. Hopefully she was just in a bit of a huff, and will presently see reason.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
My opinion? It's your partner's responsibility to handle the scheduling, including any changes to the existing schedule, and to communicate it to you and to M. It's also your partner's responsibility to negotiate any swapping of days, as he sees fit, and to communicate that swap to each of you. You're in the relationship with SO, not M. M has no responsibility to you to honor the calendar, swap days, or communicate with you about any of the above. She is in a relationship with your SO, not you. Also, I'd add that SO's days are just that, SO's days. Not yours, not M's. SO can and should decide how to spend those days and with whom to spend them. Just as you get to decide how you wish to spend your days, and with whom.

That said, it sounds like SO is passing the buck here. If SO wishes to spend those days with M and not 'swap' days with you, then SO needs to man up and tell you that, not make it look like he isn't the one making the choice to go with M because he is.
 
PinkPig, interested for your input here, as you seem to contradict other stuff I've seen relating to meta relationships and are more in line with M's stand here by the looks.

My thoughts:
Surely all people involved in a poly situation have at least some responsibility to act with the overall health of the polycule in mind? It's just like a family. All the family members do have a responsibility to act in a way that helps maintain the overall emotional health of the family. While M isn't in a direct intimate relationship with me, we do still have a relationship. Our individual relationships with SO don't exist in a vacumme, especially when time limitations/etc come into play. So I would think that some degree of consideration of the other relationships wouldn't be unrealistic to ask for. I would like to point out here also that SO, M and myself were all supposedly in agreement that this is a poly-family. I thought the M, based on what she had said, acknowledged the impact we all play on the greater group. We also have had examples in the past where checking in with the meta was done... as I said, this is a recent development (as in the last few months). In fact, at the meeting we had, M acknowledged that we had been doing this, but that she stopped because SO got into trouble for not telling me things. Something that I actually pointed out was not her responsibility because it was SO who hadn't been communicating with me. He has since improved on this communication thing.

So PinkPig, I actually disagree that she has absolutely no responsibility to honor the calendar, etc. That being said, I fully accept that I'm far from an equal to SO or MSO in her life and I have no issue with that. I also recognise that she does have a right to invite him to things on days that have been openly agreed are days that SO is with me. I'm not actually saying that she shouldn't, or that SO shouldn't go with her.
 
It sounds like you want more kitchen table sort of poly, but M doesn't want that much involvement with you, even if she indicated previously that she did. Which is perfectly fine - you each are allowed your preferences. Honestly, I agree with Pinkpig - this is your SO's issue and it should be between the two of you. At any time either of his partners can request time. If he has agreed to certain terms but chooses to shift dates - that is on him, not M. It would be nice for her to not stomp on your days, but that's not really your problem - it's SO's unwillingness to stick to the calendar. It is his time to schedule, and his boundaries to manage. If you've told him you don't want your time taken away, but yet he allows it to happen - that isn't on M, that's on SO.

Long term, if this keeps happening, well, you know where you stand. You are not a priority.
 
kdt26417, a part of me did have that bitchy thought, but no. I'm not going to do that sort of thing. As I said in my response above, I'm not saying she shouldn't ask him or that he can't go. This isn't about permission, or me deciding what my SO is doing, or such. Honestly? My ideal would be to have everyone who's going to be impacted by these plans sitting round a table (or at least a group FB message) so that everything is out in the open. I want the opportunity to have a say in changes to my timetable before others have decided that's what's going to happen. And while I do agree that SO does need to step up more, which in his defense he is actually doing (he's new to this, and has had a REALLY steep learning curve...), I don't think it is solely his responsibility. We are all in this sandpit, we really should play nice in it.
 
It sounds like you want more kitchen table sort of poly, but M doesn't want that much involvement with you, even if she indicated previously that she did.

This actually made me laugh. Because at first, she literally wanted us all to live in a giant house, and for us to spend most of our time together as a tri. I was like "well, I do actually want my own relationship with SO as well."
 
I think part of the issue is the way your SO goes into interactions with you. He sounds so bloody passive, and yes, like he's just taking direction from M and then being the passive relay of that information to you. That's why you get the feeling like you just want to cut the middleman out and have direct communication with the person making all the decisions, but I think this is absolutely the wrong way round.

You're in a relationship with SO, not M. And SO needs to be responsible for his own time management. He's making things so unnecessarily complicated here, and stressing you both out, by simply being a faffer here and letting both of you dictate his schedules. I get that that might be his natural personality, but I think it would be easier for all of you if he became more assertive. So, M invites him on a trip. Great. He's interested in going on a trip. At that point, he has to be the one to figure out where it is, ask how many days she's expecting to be away. When there is a full potential plan on the deck, he has to use his judgement. Figure out if he's ok for a one-day thing to be a three-day thing. He needs to be aware that that means he's missing three days with you. How does that make him feel? He needs to be bringing it up with her right away that if he goes on this trip with her, he'll want to do something nice with you and that might mean M has to give up some of 'her' time with him. Is she still happy to proceed if that's the deal, or would she rather nix the plan? Only after this discussion has been had, and a full plan is in place, should he come to you. And when he does, he shouldn't be coming to you in a whiny little boy way, asking for your permission, he should be coming as an adult and asking how you feel about it, whether there was anything super important you had planned or needed him to be there for, and telling you exactly how he'd like to rebond/make some time for you/take you away somewhere nice too after the trip. And then, based on what you say, he makes the decision himself. You might not get the answer you want (which might be, 'I'd rather stay and help you with the laundry that we have to do this weekend'), but at least if he decides that he's going to do the trip, you know it's his decision, and she's not somehow 'stolen time' from you or is interfering with your relationship. You can still be mad at him for blowing off your plans, but then at least you are being mad at the right person, SO, and you can deal with that in future after the trip.

tl;dr - he needs to make his own schedule and decisions and convey them to each of you more assertively, and stop presenting you with annoying amorphous half-plans that he hasn't properly organised himself yet, as that's completely wasteful of your time and emotional energy.
 
I agree with the other members. It sounds like your SO wants to go to an event with his other gf M. The trip changed from being one day to 3 days because they need 2 days to travel. Sometimes, or even usually, plans for trips take a while to come together.

I think you could be a bit more flexible and generous. As it is, you get 5 days a week with SO, to M's two days, and it has been that way for a while. So, they want to go on a 3 day trip? What is the big deal? You'll have him back soon enough.

Even if it isn't SO's forte to make plans, these are his plans to make. Unless you had something super important planned for the days of this important trip, what is the problem with him going away for 3 days?

If he was going away on a golf trip with some male friends, and it took a while for plans to solidify, would you be as upset?

If SO "feels pulled in 2 directions," and that makes him "feel like shit," so be it. That's his problem. He chooses to be poly. There will be times when he has to choose to be with one person instead of with the other. It's just part of the territory. It would help him most if both his partners could be patient and generous and respectful as plans come together.

Even if M once said she wanted kitchen table poly, or everyone cohabiting, or at least everyone involved in planning sit down together to do it, it sounds like she no longer wants that. You could accept that. You don't really have a choice but to accept it, since she's even blocked you on FB to assert her independence. You may not like it, but again, there are 4 people involved here, you really don't have a choice.

SO needs to step up his game as the hinge in your V (you+SO+M), even if it goes against his nature. You can be mad at him if he's bad at making plans. But shifting the anger to M isn't wise. It's not her job to inform you. It's his.

You might say something to SO like, "I am upset that your 1 day event turned into a 3 day event. I will miss you. But I want you to be happy and have a good time with M. Let's do something special together before or after you get back."

Personally I don't begrudge my partner going on a trip with others, whether it's a poly partner or platonic friends. I feel happy for her she's going to do something interesting to enrich her life. I make plans to keep busy with friends, or do things on my own, for while she's away. And she is the same way with me.

I don't know if reading about poly communication would help, but here's a link to morethantwo.com on the subject.

https://www.morethantwo.com/communication.html
 
kdt26417, a part of me did have that bitchy thought, but no. I'm not going to do that sort of thing. As I said in my response above, I'm not saying she shouldn't ask him or that he can't go. This isn't about permission, or me deciding what my SO is doing, or such. Honestly? My ideal would be to have everyone who's going to be impacted by these plans sitting round a table (or at least a group FB message) so that everything is out in the open. I want the opportunity to have a say in changes to my timetable before others have decided that's what's going to happen. And while I do agree that SO does need to step up more, which in his defense he is actually doing (he's new to this, and has had a REALLY steep learning curve...), I don't think it is solely his responsibility. We are all in this sandpit, we really should play nice in it.

Kitchen table poly is my preference, too. I think some things are better discussed round table, all parties involved, if possible. Like sex health practices, absolute boundaries that will affect the other relationships, etc. But I still say that it's your SO's responsibility, not M's to discuss his schedule. Sure, it would have been nice if M had given you a heads up that she had this event on those days and was going to request that SO go with her...but she still had no obligation to do so, and she had no obligation to trade days. OTOH, it is your SO's responsibility to decide if he wants to go, whether he's willing to swap days, or give you his free day/s to make up for it, and to communicate that to you. He needs to take ownership of his decisions and work on his communication skills.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but you're already getting 4 days per week to her 2, and more often than not, 5 days to her 2. That's more days than many monogamous non-cohabitating couples get together...so occasionally asking for an extra day or two probably seems like no big deal. Honestly, it's no different than if your SO were gone on a business trip during your days. Or had a guy's weekend away with his friends on your days.

You know, this isn't really a poly problem. It may feel like it because it's your partner's other partner requesting those days...but it's not. If you were monogamous, seeing your partner 4-5 days per week while he spent 2 with his friends, and he scheduled a guy's trip for three of 'your' days but communicated it to you in the same way he did this trip (unclear, non-committal, etc), would you be upset with him or with his friends for asking??
 
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OK. So my original post was as much about me trying to sort this out in my head as anything. Those that have offered opinions, cheers for that. I'll be sitting down with SO and having a good long chat. My issue isn't that they are spending time together, so no, this isn't some jealous snit here (to the person who tagged this jealous metamours... cheers for that). I don't have issue with them going away together, or that M asked SO to go. This is for me an issue with communication. I have plans with my SO, and other plans are being made that impact them. And even if those plans are just typical "we hang out together" I don't think it is fair that changes to these plans are being decided without me having a say. I'm not enforcing anything on their plans... I'm not saying that my partner can't travel whenever, I just really don't think it's cool to do that to someone. And by the way, it actually really doesn't matter how many days I've been given on the schedule to be honest - a communication issue is a communication issue regardless. It doesn't become somehow less serious just because I've currently got 2 more days than another person in my SO's life. So yeah, cheers for the input, I'm going to sort this out with SO, and patch things up with M.
 
The issue does seem poly in nature to me. At the root of it it's about SOs ability to manage his relationships and be a hinge between his two partners. I've been in a situation where my partner's passivity and lack of communication required me and my meta to communicate for plans. This was not effective for what either of us wanted and ultimately let to resentment on everyone's parts. Your SO needs to speak up and advocate and be a part of the planing process.

If you and your SO have a policy where he is to ask you about changes in the schedule than it is his responsibility to get the needed information and ask you prior to committing to this plan. It's not Ms responsibility, she is not dating you. If she invites SO to something, than it is his job to talk to you about it. (be it asking you for permission or informing you with all the details: whatever you and him have agreed)

I found if I made my expectations for planning and communication explicitly clear that helped the situation.
 
Whoopse, didn't see your response. My bad.

But yeah. I agree with you- it's totally about communication and setting to and following through with expectations.


I hope your talk goes well!
 
This issue has nothing to do with M. SO is a sloppy hinge. He needs to step up and deal with his scheduling time management issues.
 
I agree that your SO should be handling this more elegantly.

However, that he is not is the current situation and and the reality you have in hand to work with. You feel out of control of the planning of your own time with your SO. While I agree that he should handle it more elegantly, if he isn't, I don't think it is unreasonable for you to approach M about it. If she doesn't wish to deal with you, she can help SO get more up to the mark from her end. Or she can avoid changing the schedule around.

I am a little arrogant (been told, and I agree), so I may not necessarily have the most elegant answer either, but in your place, I'd be like "Look, I agreed to the schedule the two of you came up with, even though it did not include my inputs in planning my OWN time. That is done, but we aren't making a habit out of this. You want changes, you bring them to me and we discuss it." If the SO is passive, you and M can figure it out, or the three of you can sit together and do it. I think it is ok to refuse to agree to changes unless they have been brought to you by the person proposing the change. I also think it is absolutely fine to not even consider a change unless there is a swap day offered - whether it happens or not, the willingness to offer it upfront speaks of a respect and consideration of your time with SO, which appears to be missing here.

Though longterm, once your SO isn't so overwhelmed with his learning curve, this is going to have to be figured out by him to resolve with least drama.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I agree with the others in that the problem is not so much M but SO.

The problem?

This is for me an issue with communication. I have plans with my SO, and other plans are being made that impact them.

Who is making those other plans? SO.

it actually really doesn't matter how many days I've been given on the schedule to be honest - a communication issue is a communication issue regardless.

So reconsider that 4-2-1 schedule.

Would 2-2-3 work better and reduce these communication problems with SO?

SO couldn't organise his way out of a plastic bag even if his life depended on it. He has attention/memory/organisation issues. He tries really REALLY hard to remember to tell me stuff, but he still mucks up.

Might be a reason for the messy communication but NOT an excuse. Because even if SO was single, he would have to figure out how to manage his time in their life -- so he can go to work, deal with sleep, chores, etc and still get all the things done that need doing.

Ask him how he plans to deal with this communication/scheduling upkeep? Use Google calendar? Cozi? Something else?

Whether you keep trying the 4-2-1 split or call that one no good and try on a 2-2-3... eventually on whatever schedule you land on there will be upkeep.

when M wants to do things with SO on days that it was decided were days he was spending with me, SO informs me that M wants a day for XYZ, or that she's received an invite and has asked him to go.

That's a passive "pass the buck" way to communicate.

If M asks him out on a date on short notice and he already has plans with you? It is his responsibility to say "Thanks, M. But no thanks. I already have plans. Those are my days with sonyablu. If you are asking me out for a special event, I need at least a week's notice, preferably more so I can have time/space to swap days around without stress."

If M asks him out on a date and he wants to reschedule a date with you so he can be free to go? Because this isn't like dinner out somewhere that could just wait for one of her days. This is like special concert tickets that are only in town on X date?

He could say "Sonyablu, M asked me out for X date. I know it is one of our days. I would like to go because it's a special event concert thing. It is more than a week out -- so lots of notice. Could we rechedule our date and swap for Y date?"

He could some to the discussion table PREPARED. And you could say "Ok, let's swap" or "No, let's stick to the plan." Keep this WAY easier on you.

To me you sound willing to be generous with his time when approached respectfully, but dislike being approached like "taken for granted" or something. Like his standing plans with you are only good unless "something better comes along."

Even the whole thing with the trip? I think it is SO's job to get details and not be passing things along piece-meal.

I know he's being GIVEN then piece-meal by M but he could say "This trip doesn't seem very organized at this point. Could you be willing to figure the whole trip out, then tell me the WHOLE trip details with enough notice? Then I can see what I can do. If you cannot give me all the details with enough notice so I can plan accordingly, then I have to say "Thank, but no thanks" on this trip."

If you don't like how SO is managing his time? Renegotiate this schedule:

The original schedule was kinda drawn up by SO and M, based on the days that M has free time. In her words: "These are the days that I cleared in my schedule so that he could spend time with me if he wished." I was then shown this schedule, after they'd talked it over to OK. At the time, I was a little bit annoyed that I was kinda just left out of the original discussions about this, but the schedule did offer me more time, so I didn't want to seem like I was just nitpicking. I did however ask that these sort of decisions not be decided without actually involving me early on in the process. I said that I didn't like feeling like I didn't have a say, that my life was being decided/directed for me, which the way this was handled - that's how it felt a little.

You had no say in making it, even if you ended up with 4 days. But if the 4 days are crap because SO keeps mismanaging his time, maybe you prefer 2 days that are SOLID instead so you don't have to be dealing with the "shifting sands."

  • Like 2 SOLID days for you.
  • 2 SOLID days for M.
  • And 3 days for SO to do as he pleases -- be it alone, with M or with you.
  • An agreement for a week's notice for any "days swapped" for special events.

Maybe that helps him reduce his stress with scheduling -- because then he only has to "deliver" 4 solid days a week instead of 6 right now. Which he isn't handling well anyway. He also gets 3 days to use for rest or to use to swap with -- because right now he's only got 1 "flex" day. Why short change his own self care?

M still gets her 2 days.

You get less days, but perhaps better QUALITY days. Plus more peace without all this "shifting sands" business. Whatever "bonus days" you get that week with him you can call "bonus" and relax.

And you don't have to feel bad about reminding him "No. You cannot do that on X and Y. Those are our 2 days. There was no week's notice for swapping days. You are asking me to swap on too short notice and the thing is not a medical emergency."

Help him to rise UP over his time management problems by giving him more room, encouraging him to take personal responsibility, and then holding him accountable to his agreements.

I think the root of the problems here are three fold -- he's got wonky time management skills. he's a passive communicator, and he agreed to a 4-2-1 split that did NOT give himself enough flex/rest days. How is spreading himself too thin setting himself up for "success" any?

Galagirl
 
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