How to you talk?

elle

New member
There are three of us- me, my longtime partner (we are married) and his long time friend. Who, over time has also become my best friend and now someone I'm very attached to.

We have to work stuff out. We tried going to our separate corners for two years, but that wasn't the answer. Everyone was sad and lonely. The feelings between me and bff are obvious. we are often a very happy threesome, until I point out the elephant in the living room and my husband feels betrayed.

I am wondering- how do you talk about feelings, boundaries, expectations and such? As a group? Am I the interpreter for them? Do we talk altogether? Do they talk without me present?!

What do you do?
 
From what I understand in this post, you are married.

Husband has a best friend.

The best friend and you have feelings for each other.

Right?

we are often a very happy threesome, until I point out the elephant in the living room and my husband feels betrayed.

What is it you want to achieve or change? How does pointing it out help you? You want to be able to date the best friend? You want the "V" verbally recognized by all parties? Something else?

What do you say? How and when do you say it? Doing serious relationship talks when people are tired, hungry, anxious, angry -- not esp. good times.

Would non-violent communication help? Have you considered seeing a professional to guide you through the talk?

Galagirl
 
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Hi elle,

I recommend all three of you meeting together as a group. No go-betweens. Find out when is a good time for everyone. Schedule the talk. Plan a maximum duration for the talk. If things aren't resolved within that duration, you can resolve them in another talk (and there should be another talk regardless).

Schedule the talk for a time when all three of you can relax and not be distracted. Stick to the planned topics. Before the talk, each of you might want to print up a list of things you want to cover during the discussion.

Avoid words that insinuate accusations. The objective is not to find out "whose fault it is." It isn't anyone's fault. Also, be a considerate listener. When someone talks, don't be assembling your retort; instead, take the opportunity to really try to understand the talking person.

Just some tips.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am not sure exactly what sort of issues you are having. Why does your husband feel betrayed? Are you in a consensual poly arrangement, or are you talking about just feeling attracted to each other? The elephant in the room is... what?

I'm sorry, but your post is a bit vague, so would you add more detail about what kind of help you're looking for here?
 
Ack! I had a lovely reply with quotes and deep, thoughtful answers- then I waited too long to post and lost the whole thing. Wah! I forgot about that with these forums.

First- thank you. All of your responses gave me great things to chew on, think about.

We are a MFM 'friendship,' that I have thought was more than a friendship for a long time (like at least 5 years now). I have been married for 18 yrs. The other M is my husbands best friend, I'd also consider him my best friend also. The three of us are very 'there for each other,' no matter what. We already have a relationship that makes others in our small town arch their eyebrows. Plus, we happen to be casual nudists. That has nothing to do with sex, but speaks to our closeness.

I guess the elephant in the room is that over time BFF and I have developed feelings for each other- we have a lot of emotional intimacy and desire physical intimacy. I tried to talk about this a few years ago and everyone freaked out and for a long two years we were pretty distant.

Confusing things is the fact that I am very open, very liberal sexually and it turns out my husband is/has.... childhood issues? emotional security issues? a dependence on sex with me that is very co-dependent? Gosh, I don't even know exactly what at this point. I think perhaps he'd just repressed having feelings about sex and sexuality for most of his life, maybe. But he loves me- he has been very patient while he tries to understand how I think about life. I think perhaps he spent too much time in the Catholic church, but I try not to judge.

We took Kevin's advice and talked as a group, the three of us, very plainly in a healthy way. No jabs, no anger, etc. It was amazing! That opened up things for husband to say what he is comfortable with right now, then BFF and I to be able to communicate/hang out without feeling like we were doing something wrong.

Husband and I also have an appointment for counseling. I found someone in our small town who listed experience with open relationships/polyamory/etc in our small town, yea!! The three of us have no interest in listening to someone tell us that we shouldn't be friends. That said, we all need help navigating this, I think.

But it turns out breaking the ice and having that first conversation is the hardest. Also, moving forward requires letting go of the past and being willing to be uncomfortable. It's a big roller coaster, self discovery. Some days (today), I feel pretty positive, others I feel sad that we are maybe risking everything or 'doing this wrong,' etc. And my husband is struggling. I take it all very personally, but a lot of this has to do with his own life journey, I think. He is realizing that too. Dealing with this is just forcing him to unpack some carefully stowed baggage.
 
Hi elle,

I think it's awesome that you guys have talked, and are even getting a poly-friendly counselor. Keep us posted on how things are going.

Regards,
Kevin T.

Yes, we'll see! I'm excited to have found one close to where we live and with good availability.

At this point, I really have no idea what the outcome will be. My most immediate goal is for us to be able to determine what we are all comfortable with, and unpack baggage anyone might be carrying. No matter what, our goal is to work cooperatively on this.

I sure do wish me at 40 could have talked to me at 20..... :rolleyes:
 
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Though it can sometimes be uncomfortable (and growth happens at the edges of the comfort zone -- you are trying to gently stretch to a new place) -- it sounds like you are doing all the right things you could be doing t this point in time.

Talked in trio to lay the cards on the table, made a counseling appointment, are identifying what baggage belongs to whom, recognizing that people might be seeing through a past filter, etc.

The only suggestion I would have is to keep going in that measured fashion. One step at a time. Don't try to take huge leaps so you take on more than you can chew.

More like trying to keep it in the "comfortably uncomfortable" zone during this transition time. Not like UNCOMFORTABLY uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

Galagirl
 
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Hi elle,

I think it's awesome that you guys have talked, and are even getting a poly-friendly counselor. Keep us posted on how things are going.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Ack! I had a lovely reply with quotes and deep, thoughtful answers- then I waited too long to post and lost the whole thing. Wah! I forgot about that with these forums.

First- thank you. All of your responses gave me great things to chew on, think about.

We are a MFM 'friendship,' that I have thought was more than a friendship for a long time (like at least 5 years now). I have been married for 18 yrs. The other M is my husbands best friend, I'd also consider him my best friend also. The three of us are very 'there for each other,' no matter what. We already have a relationship that makes others in our small town arch their eyebrows. Plus, we happen to be casual nudists. That has nothing to do with sex, but speaks to our closeness.

I guess the elephant in the room is that over time BFF and I have developed feelings for each other- we have a lot of emotional intimacy and desire physical intimacy. I tried to talk about this a few years ago and everyone freaked out and for a long two years we were pretty distant.

Confusing things is the fact that I am very open, very liberal sexually and it turns out my husband is/has.... childhood issues? emotional security issues? a dependence on sex with me that is very co-dependent? Gosh, I don't even know exactly what at this point. I think perhaps he'd just repressed having feelings about sex and sexuality for most of his life, maybe. But he loves me- he has been very patient while he tries to understand how I think about life. I think perhaps he spent too much time in the Catholic church, but I try not to judge.

We took Kevin's advice and talked as a group, the three of us, very plainly in a healthy way. No jabs, no anger, etc. It was amazing! That opened up things for husband to say what he is comfortable with right now, then BFF and I to be able to communicate/hang out without feeling like we were doing something wrong.

Husband and I also have an appointment for counseling. I found someone in our small town who listed experience with open relationships/polyamory/etc in our small town, yea!! The three of us have no interest in listening to someone tell us that we shouldn't be friends. That said, we all need help navigating this, I think.

But it turns out breaking the ice and having that first conversation is the hardest. Also, moving forward requires letting go of the past and being willing to be uncomfortable. It's a big roller coaster, self discovery. Some days (today), I feel pretty positive, others I feel sad that we are maybe risking everything or 'doing this wrong,' etc. And my husband is struggling. I take it all very personally, but a lot of this has to do with his own life journey, I think. He is realizing that too. Dealing with this is just forcing him to unpack some carefully stowed baggage.
Hi Elle, your situation sounds something like mine. I have been involved in what I consider a nonphysical more than friends relationship with my wife's best friend for over two years now. Two years from a moment when she told me she loved me and I told her I loved her back. I love my wife, and probably protect her more than I should ( I guess I'm traditional about that for some reason), but falling in love with the friend Happened, whether I wanted it to or not. I've tried to talk to my wife about it six months ago, but it was extremely painful. My wife also has early childhood trauma around abandonment, making things very emotional and messy in a hurry when we have tried to talk about it. Now we are trying again, but I'm so scared of fucking everything up. I feel like I am putting my emotional inclinations above the stability of all of our friendship, and I'm really wrestling with that. A big part of me wants to deny it, deny myself, but it seems like this is exacerbating chronic pain conditions and insomnia to the point where if I don't start to be honest I'm loosing function.
Probably not helpful to you, but I'm inspired by your progress, please let me know how it goes!
 
Though it can sometimes be uncomfortable (and growth happens at the edges of the comfort zone -- you are trying to gently stretch to a new place) -- it sounds like you are doing all the right things you could be doing t this point in time.

Talked in trio to lay the cards on the table, made a counseling appointment, are identifying what baggage belongs to whom, recognizing that people might be seeing through a past filter, etc.

The only suggestion I would have is to keep going in that measured fashion. One step at a time. Don't try to take huge leaps so you take on more than you can chew.

More like trying to keep it in the "comfortably uncomfortable" zone during this transition time. Not like UNCOMFORTABLY uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

Galagirl

Yes. It does. We have taken to lots of reading, writing our thoughts and sharing them (it really helps us!) and also grounding ourselves with lots of gratitude/in the moment work.

So much of what we expect in relationships and what we enjoy about them is perceived and unspoken. I see this as an opportunity to grow and learn in all relationships.

The more I read, the more I recognized that exactly what you said- measured steps are very important.

Hi elle,

I think it's awesome that you guys have talked, and are even getting a poly-friendly counselor. Keep us posted on how things are going.

Regards,
Kevin T.

Thank you. I don't think we could work through this without someone! Our counselor has helped me recognize and state things about myself that are hard for me to do. She's validated my husband and helped us have respectful discussions together. Right now we are working on some of the exercises in 'Opening Up.'

Hi Elle, your situation sounds something like mine. I have been involved in what I consider a nonphysical more than friends relationship with my wife's best friend for over two years now. Two years from a moment when she told me she loved me and I told her I loved her back. I love my wife, and probably protect her more than I should ( I guess I'm traditional about that for some reason), but falling in love with the friend Happened, whether I wanted it to or not. I've tried to talk to my wife about it six months ago, but it was extremely painful. My wife also has early childhood trauma around abandonment, making things very emotional and messy in a hurry when we have tried to talk about it. Now we are trying again, but I'm so scared of fucking everything up. I feel like I am putting my emotional inclinations above the stability of all of our friendship, and I'm really wrestling with that. A big part of me wants to deny it, deny myself, but it seems like this is exacerbating chronic pain conditions and insomnia to the point where if I don't start to be honest I'm loosing function.
Probably not helpful to you, but I'm inspired by your progress, please let me know how it goes!

I know those feelings. I understand. We've really had to go back and define what 'love,' is for each of us- how we interpret fidelity, a close relationship versus a casual one and what our sex styles are. For me, a very close emotional relationship, even without sex, requires me to be able to have my husband on board because of my intimacy style. If he doesn't know, it feels like cheating to me, and I don't like that feeling. One of the best things we did was to write down our responses to pg 37 in 'Opening Up,' and then share them. We are also using 'the New Monogamy,' to frame some discussions.

I have been asking my husband to discuss polyamory for about 4 years now, he realized. He thinks of me as asking for more of an 'open,' relationship, probably because he defines himself as monogamous, but is willing to accept the fact that I am open to sexual experiences/intimate experiences and even a relationship with someone else. It's hard, though. It turns out you can't get past start without doing serious reflection (for each of us) as to who we are- lots of grounding, engaging in good mental habits and finding a strong sense of self.

For our BFF, (my husband calls him 'my boyfriend,' on occasion or we just use his name) we continue to stay in each others lives. We have established that ethical treatment of people means being conscious of their feelings. No acting in anger, no treating others as if they are disposable. My husband and I have a lot to work through, and by including our friend in that, we've been able to have his support and stay engaged with him as we work to define how this may (or may not) work for the three of us.
 
Well I'll cross my fingers that it will work out.
 
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