How do we deal with differing needs?

metandwessy

New member
Hey everyone,

I always appreciate all the sound advice from experienced and supportive poly people. I find myself looking at these forums all the time when I'm feeling stuck- which I am right now with my primary partner.

So here's the very short version: We've been together nearly 2 years now. For the most part things are fantastic, we have fun together, we are attracted to each other, we have a great poly community we've built together, we communicate, we go to couples counseling to work things out, we have great sex, I think he's an amazing partner and person in general.

We often get stuck in this one area (his sexual interests with single -often poly-inexperienced women outside the relationship) and I'm just always looking for how to cope with it. In the past, I've written about feeling like he was choosing unhealthy women and I felt I didn't want the drama. This hasn't been as much of a problem lately so that's been nice. But I'm still finding myself very uncomfortable with how he pursues other women, and how he communicates with me during these times of pursuit.

When he has a new love interest, he seems to get completely enamored by them and that's fine, I know it happens and that it's known as NRE- it's still uncomfortable but at least I understand it. The problem is that when I want to talk about this very real shift in energy and how it makes me feel, and what I need, he then denies it and says I'm reacting to nothing, that it's all my thoughts that are the problem and he's unwilling to compromise because he feels he's compromised too much in this relationship already (past resentments about me asking him to slow down I think). I feel my reality is denied, and then I feel confused and feel like a crazy person and then I wonder is he right, is it all just my perception?? Then I start to distrust my own intuition and question my reality about the situation.

Most recently, he wanted to find a female webcam partner because he is pursuing a career doing that and needs to make money. He knows he can make a lot more money with a partner and says he didn't want it to be with me because he didn't want our relationship to be all about that. I told him I was uncomfortable with that because he often has very limited energy (health issues) for me as it is so I was worried that if he was spending 15+ hours a week having sex for his job with another woman, that there wouldn't be much left for me. We talked about it and he decided to move forward with this woman we sort of know. despite being uncomfortable and concerned I decided to just try to get over my shit about it and see how it goes.

It's only been about a week and a half and he has spent every other day for 4-6 hours at a time being sexual with her and he wants to stay very private about what they do and how he's feeling about her which is really hard for me. I've told him about it, that I don't feel included, considered, and that I need more disclosure but he says that he doesn't want to because he basically doesn't trust my reactions but then says that it's no big deal, it's just FWB and a job and that I'm the only one in this whole scenario thinking that this is a big deal. Then slowly things start coming out like last night he tells me that they have a ton of chemistry and passion and it seems like it's getting more serious- which is what I've been saying the whole time and he's been denying and now is admitting to?

Now in the essence of full disclosure, I must admit that sometimes (maybe often times?) I am emotional and I'm working on getting better at keeping things about me and my feelings but I do still get reactive and "blame-y". He and I have talked about this but the only thing he thinks is acceptable is basically for me to say "I'm feeling hurt and it's all my shit and there's nothing I need you to change".

My questions for you wise people are:
-Does it sound like it really is just my problem and I shouldn't ask for him to change any behaviors?
-How do I get better at validating my reality and trusting my reactions so that I don't feel so hurt when he doesn't validate me?
-What are reasonable compromises to ask him to make as far as time and energy into his new interest?
-Does anyone know much about love addict/love avoidant relationships and if so, does it seem like we have that dynamic? What do we do about it?
-I feel like sex with this other woman and webcamming in general has already negatively impacted our sex life, how do I best communicate this so he can hear it?

Thank you kindly!
 
I'm not really sure where to start... I was following right up until you mentioned that he's camming with another woman for money. I'm not judging him for that; I just have no experience with that kind of thing and so am not sure how to respond to your questions when that's part of the mix.

It does sound like he's not validating your concerns and feelings. I've had this issue with Hubby; I have depression and PTSD, and so I am fully aware that sometimes my perception is skewed, and sometimes I start problems--not deliberately, and sometimes not even consciously, but as a side effect of whatever nastiness is going on in my brain.

BUT... In a relationship between two people, there is, in my opinion, no such thing as "all your fault." It takes two people to *have* the relationship, it takes two to *maintain* it, and it takes two to bleep it up. Your guy might not like your reactions to what he's doing, but that doesn't mean you're wrong to have those reactions, and it doesn't mean he doesn't have to do anything while you change everything. So in answer to your first question.. NO. It is NOT only your problem.

That said, you definitely have the right to ask him to make changes. But he has the right to refuse. If that's the case, you then have the right to decide how to proceed, whether that's maintaining the status quo even if you're miserable, or leaving the relationship because it isn't working, or something in between.

I'm a little stuck on how he wants to "be private" about what he's doing with this other woman if they're camming... How private can it be if it's being broadcast for anyone to see? Or are they currently being sexual without camming?

You say you and he go to counseling together. Is this something you've been able to bring up in counseling sessions? If so, what's the counselor's take on it? If not, why not? It definitely sounds like this is a situation on which you could benefit from an objective third party's opinion, and your counselor likely knows you two a whole lot better, and is better aware of the relationship in general, than a bunch of random people on the internet.

To attempt to answer your other four questions:
- You feel how you feel. You have the right to feel that way. HOWEVER you feel is completely okay and acceptable. Your actions and words in *response* to those feelings are what you can control and be mindful of, but validating yourself begins with acknowledging that "I feel hurt when he does this, and it's okay for me to feel hurt. I have the right to feel that way."

- Reasonable compromises, in my opinion, are one of those things strangers online can't give you the best advice about, because we don't know you or your partner. What seems reasonable to me might be way out of line to you. Personally, I might start by asking him to devote at least one or two days/nights a week solely to you and your relationship.

- I don't know anything about love addict/love avoidant, so I can't help with that, though I'm curious about why you think he might be showing signs of those behaviors.

- Being honest is usually best for communication. "I feel like since you're having sex and camming with this woman, we haven't been as connected or as intimate as before. I miss those times and connections with you, and I feel that we need to make time for each other so our relationship doesn't suffer."
 
Thank you KC43

Thank you so much for the advice and helpful questions. I really resonate with this: "sometimes I start problems--not deliberately, and sometimes not even consciously, but as a side effect of whatever nastiness is going on in my brain." I definitely do that too and it's something I'm working on. You're blessed to have partners that now understand that and it sounds like you've done your work too! I think that behavior with me is also part of the love addict/love avoidant dynamic. The love addict (in this relationship me) attempts to create intensity INside the relationship to feel connected and important to their partner. The love avoidant is uncomfortable with this (happens from having an enmeshing parent growing up) and therefore runs away and creates intensity OUTside of the relationship usually in some form of a process addiction of sorts.

About asking for changes, I think I should clarify. I have asked for compromise to slow down (sometimes it's literally "can you just not do it today, tomorrow is fine") and sometimes he is fine but I can tell it builds resentment. Other times he is unwilling because he is very sensitive to feeling controlled and has said that he thinks his behavior should have no impact on me because it has nothing to do with me. Any perceived (on my part) impact that it does have, is all my crap to deal with on my own although he will listen and talk with me as long as I don't say anything about his behavior.

This has not been brought up in therapy because it's a relatively new development. The issue of not compromising and love addict/love avoidant stuff definitely has come up though. I actually just reached out to our therapist to make an appointment to talk about this. I think that will help a lot.

I like this advice too: "It takes two people to *have* the relationship, it takes two to *maintain* it, and it takes two to bleep it up" and I couldn't agree more. He on the other hand believes there is no such thing as "the relationship" that it's just "you" and "me". He doesn't like talking about our relationship as if it is another entity... So I'm not sure how to address that one either. I guess we could talk about that with our therapist too! haha I just like a lot of the advice given in this forum so I thought I'd bring my questions here in addition to the other support I'm getting.

Thank you again!
 
Sounds like first off you have an extremely healthy relationship

We've been together nearly 2 years now. For the most part things are fantastic, we have fun together, we are attracted to each other, we have a great poly community we've built together, we communicate, we go to couples counseling to work things out, we have great sex, I think he's an amazing partner and person in general.

Awesome. However, it sounds like it's almost been TOO perfect. You're literally having to IMAGINE problems

I told him I was uncomfortable with that because he often has very limited energy (health issues) for me as it is so I was worried that if he was spending 15+ hours a week having sex for his job with another woman, that there wouldn't be much left for me.

If I were him, I'd be super frustrated at the fact that I was being an awesome boyfriend, yet it still wasn't enough to, apparently, earn your trust. Plus we agreed on an open relationship. So I'm allowed to not spend 100% of my free time with you.

It's only been about a week and a half and he has spent every other day for 4-6 hours at a time being sexual with her and he wants to stay very private about what they do and how he's feeling about her which is really hard for me. I've told him about it, that I don't feel included, considered, and that I need more disclosure but he says that he doesn't want to because he basically doesn't trust my reactions but then says that it's no big deal, it's just FWB and a job and that I'm the only one in this whole scenario thinking that this is a big deal. Then slowly things start coming out like last night he tells me that they have a ton of chemistry and passion and it seems like it's getting more serious- which is what I've been saying the whole time and he's been denying and now is admitting to?

Lack of trust begets lack of trust. It sounds like he's afraid to tell you the truth, for fear of your reaction. Is he justified? Have you reacted poorly in the past? I don't know whether this is his issue, your issue, or both...but clearly he is uncomfortable with being honest about his feelings for her.

Make of this feedback however you wish. Not my relationship. But I'm guessing you and he have some things to talk through here.
 
I am sorry you deal in this. What does your counselor say about it? I would bring it up there. That seems the best place to me.

-Does it sound like it really is just my problem and I shouldn't ask for him to change any behaviors?

You can always ASK. It does not mean he will agree. He might say yes or no. But you are free to ask.

He is partnered to you. What he does can and does affect you. To what degree depends on the model you practice.

If he is spending time on a hobby that is affecting your couple time -- it is his time management affecting the shared couple time. So... yeah. I can see where it would bug you because he isn't keeping "his stuff" on his side. He's leaking into "our stuff.'

-How do I get better at validating my reality and trusting my reactions so that I don't feel so hurt when he doesn't validate me?

What do you need validated? That you feel bad experiencing stonewalling from your partner? :confused: I do not see where anyone would feel great with that.

There is a difference to me between

"I see you are concerned/ hurt. I am not sure I see /agree on the reason why. Could you explain to me what part you see as the problem?"​

And

"You are not hurting. You are reacting to nothing."​

when you are TELLING him you are concerned or hurting.

One leads to more discussion and hopefully problem solving. The other shuts it all down and seems to deny you your concerns or emotions.

He is not you. He cannot dictate what you feel or do not feel. You can feel whatever it is. You are allowed to have your feelings. How you choose to handle it is also up to you. And so far you have a concern about him not meeting couple time (whether for sex share or dinner out, whatever).

You brought it up to him.
You made counseling appointment.
You check in with other people here.
Have you checked in RL with friends too?

That's what anyone else would do when they need to problem solve and a reality check. Do things like that.

I think you could be hurting double... For the original thing and then again because he does not acknowledge your hurt/concern when you express it.

I would rather hear "you are reacting to nothing I care to discuss at this time." That acknowledges both people at least. That you hurt at this time. He does not want to talk about that at this time.

Better still would be "I see you hurt about this. I am sorry. I am not willing and able to talk about it right now. How about a hug for now and we talk more deeply about it on ....? " people have to sleep, go to work and stuff. Deep convo is better scheduled to me.

But when he is choosing stonewalling behavior to not have to deal in this at all ever... I would not expect him to admit he is stonewalling. You are not going to get that kind of validation. I would expect denial.

Denial that he is stonewalling.
Denial that there is a problem.

That kind of thing.

It is still your experience of this though. Whether he admits to stonewalling or not... You are on the receiving end. This is your reality right now.

What are reasonable compromises to ask him to make as far as time and energy into his new interest?

Leave him alone with the new interests.

Ask for time spent with you directly. He either meets the time with you or not. You assess from there. Him spending less time on this is not automatically him spending time with you. What if he decides to use the extra time bowling? No longer on camming but still not with you. So ask direct.

Ask for clear communication and no stonewalling. Does not have to be this minute, but make an appointment. He either shows up to the table or not. Need it to be in counseling? In counseling then. He repeatedly no shows? Not actually willing to participate in the relationship? You do not like being relationship with a ghost? Assess from there.

-Does anyone know much about love addict/love avoidant relationships and if so, does it seem like we have that dynamic? What do we do about it?

I do not have experience there.

I do find it odd that you go there rather than wondering about respect and your shared agreements.

Like... Is it (respectful behavior / keeping with shared agreements) for my partner to tell me I am reacting to nothing when I am telling him I feel bad and would like help? Or when I have a concern I would like to discuss?

I am not clear... What model do you guys practice? Are you partners where you both agree to provide and expect to receive some support/nurture here? Or is this more like a no strings or attachments thing that does not deal in that?

If partner person then he might not be holding up his end of the stick.

If a no strings thing it seems you are wanting more than what this model holds.

-I feel like sex with this other woman and webcamming in general has already negatively impacted our sex life, how do I best communicate this so he can hear it?

How exactly do you express it? Could you give a verbatim example? To me? You are already seem to be communicating it pretty up front.

Thing is... Does he want to listen? Communication is a two way street. You broadcast, he listens. He broadcasts, you listen. You can broadcast til the cows come home but if he refuses to listen on his end? He is basically shutting communication down and stonewalling. You are talking to a wall. :(

He is not teaching you how he prefers you to articulate your needs to him if it is a problem with your communication style.

He does not seem like he wants to communicate at all. So... Not currently meeting your connection need.

I am sorry. :(

Galagirl
 
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P.S. As far as the privacy goes, I think the only person he really wants privacy from is me due to not trusting in my reactions and disapproving of them.
 
-Does it sound like it really is just my problem and I shouldn't ask for him to change any behaviors?

Any problem in your relationship is a problem that both of you should be facing, IMO. However, asking someone to change behaviors usually isn't getting to the root of the issue.

-How do I get better at validating my reality and trusting my reactions so that I don't feel so hurt when he doesn't validate me?

I guess just practice. Write yourself reminders when you're feeling good about things and go back and re-read them when you're feeling not so good, maybe?

-What are reasonable compromises to ask him to make as far as time and energy into his new interest?

Write out your needs and your wants. If he's not meeting your needs, then asking for them is perfectly valid (especially if he's generally capable). Then again, if you're of the mindset that you need sex everyday or you get cranky/feel disconnected/whatever and he's of the mindset that he needs this camming gig to pay his bills - your needs are clashing and a new compromise will need to be reached. If you're only asking for changes in his behavior to get your WANTS fulfilled, maybe it's time to look for another relationship to supplement the one you have.

-Does anyone know much about love addict/love avoidant relationships and if so, does it seem like we have that dynamic? What do we do about it?

I think love (and sex) addiction is thrown around a lot. I'd be wary of applying it. If your therapist hasn't suggested it as a potential issue, then it probably isn't one.

-I feel like sex with this other woman and webcamming in general has already negatively impacted our sex life, how do I best communicate this so he can hear it?

Hubby and I recently started keeping track of our sex lives. Okay, my sex life (since I'm the only one with multiple sex partners). It makes it painfully clear to me when I'm having sex with others and not having sex with him. I just put a little mark (a different symbol for each person) on the calendar day when I've had sex. If I see that Hubby's mark isn't showing up as often as others, I know there's an issue. And I LOVE sex. My libido is generally through the roof, so it's just making time for us. Anyway, maybe making some sort of tracking system together would help him see that your sex life has taken a turn.
 
Metandwessy...

Reading your original post again, and then a couple of other things you've said since, it sounds to me like you are ACCEPTING his assertion that this is all your problem and he shouldn't have to do anything about it.

You've said that you are addicted to but avoid love and so create problems or intensity.

You've said that you're "emotional" and get "reactive and blamey".

The only thing you've said about his behavior toward you is that he rejects his responsibility in eliciting negative emotions on your part.

It seems to me, and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, that you are blaming yourself for the problems and questioning whether you have the right to feel bad. You are doing to yourself what you say your partner is doing to you.

I could be wrong; I'm just reading what you've said here and that's my interpretation. But it seems pretty strongly to me that you have on some level agreed with him that *you* are the problem here, when from my perspective, and apparently the perspectives of others who have replied, that isn't the case. Two people, two responsible parties.

On another note... As AlwaysGrowing said, unless a trained professional has stated that you have love addiction/love avoidant behaviors or symptoms, I would advise being very cautious about self-diagnosing. In the long run, it doesn't really matter WHY you behave the way you do, and if you say "It's because of addiction or avoidance," you run the risk of using that as a crutch and therefore implying that it's beyond your control. What matters is the BEHAVIOR, not any reason or diagnosis that may or may not be behind it. If you feel your behavior contributes to the problems, work on modifying that behavior instead of trying to find explanations for it.
 
I would struggle with the webcam thing, too. When I was a young woman, I dated a beautiful girl who started stripping while we were together. I had no moral issue with it, but I hated the idea of my lover's sexuality, which meant so much to me, commodified and on display for pay. Unfortunately, she seemed to get addicted to the attention, money, and the lifestyle. I marvel at the level of compartmentalization it must take for sexworkers to be able to say This sex/seduction is for money, but this sex/seduction is for love, without the two getting mixed up.

True, you can't tell anyone how to live their lives or what to do with their own sexuality. But if your boyfriend's time with this new woman is affecting your relationship, you can tell him how in concrete detail.

I'm wary when people tell me I'm being "too emotional" or "making a big deal out of nothing." Sure, sometimes it's true. But in my experience, it's just as often that they're trying to distract me from their own insensitive behavior, hoping I'll turn the focus away from them and back on myself.
 
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