Thoughts from a 2013 Newbie

My husband and I wanted to keep track of all the huge changes (good and bad) to our lives lately. I thought this would be an excellent place to do so.

Our background-- my husband, Neverwhere, is 35. I'm 31. We have four kids between us, my three stepsons (his bio sons) and our son together. I have been interested in polyamory for many years, but my husband wasn't. So I put it aside and decided it would never happen.

A month ago, Neverwhere and I were having a frank discussion about his ex-wife. We've been trying to get her to move out our way for a long time. She lives in a... less than desirable town, and we live out in the country. The kids are involved in sports out here and have great friends, we own a house, etc. It's settled and lovely out here. The discussion led to said ex-wife revealing she had feelings for my husband still, and me asking him if he ever thought about his feelings for her. Previously, Neverwhere felt that he should just shut off any feelings that didn't suit him. As a result, he was either happy or angry, not really much in between. But this past year he has made a lot of changes. So when the idea of polyamory involving his ex wife came up, we felt it was worth the discussion.

A few weeks ago (the 20th of June, I think) they went on their "first date." She was very excited about it. He had a lot of fun. They discovered they get along much better as secondaries than primaries. She and I, meanwhile, used to hate each other, but over the past two years have actually become pretty decent friends. (It was a long road.)

My brother-in-law also lives with us. I don't know if it's possible to consider yourself in a non-sexual poly relationship, but I guess we might be. We're best friends. We would date if it weren't so awkward for my husband. We have accepted and appreciate that we have a really awesome friendship, where we like to spend time together separate from my husband and his ex-wife.

This past Friday the ex wife (Amanda) called me crying, saying that she was getting kicked out of her apartment. We knew for months that the place was being condemned, but we all thought she had another month before she had to be out. Neverwhere and I discussed it and decided the best thing to do would be to move Amanda into our spare room. The kids could see their mom every day, and as for the poly stuff, we'd figure it out.

So Saturday we got a U-Haul, moved all her stuff into our garage and spare room, and she's been here 3 nights now with no issues. We share the cooking and cleaning responsibilities, got the kids onto the same rules they've always had here, plus some extras from her house, and she and Neverwhere still had a date night last night, while I watched movies with my BIL.

This is not permanent. We can't share the same kitchen forever. We have a garage that would make a great two-bedroom apartment for her. We are going to go ahead with that. It will take a couple months, but we are very excited about this.

There is a lot of new stress with this situation, obviously.

On top of all this, I started dating a man last week whom I met when he very sweetly hit on me at a store. He is mono right now, but very open to poly lifestyle.

It's been quite the journey in a small amount of time. But we feel like it was almost meant to happen this way. We are helping Amanda out. We have our family all in one place. Things are going great. I know there will be fights along the way, but I'm hoping this is the norm for us instead of just ... a natural "high on life" sort of situation.

Feedback welcomed.

So far, Amanda and I have not been alone in the house yet. She moved in on Saturday, and the men folk were here on Saturday and Sunday. Then they both had Monday off for doctor's appointments. So today is our first day, just the moms and the kids.

SS9 and I went to wake up his mom this morning with my 3yo. We jumped on the bed and talked for a few minutes. I guess she sent Neverwhere (my husband) a text saying we woke her up and that she loves her family. So that's nice to hear.

I thought it would be weird, our first morning, because she's usually up early and is OCD about cooking and cleaning. I'm more like "Go get some cereal, kids." So I was worried about being "shown up."

It's funny... I think any jealousy I have stems from kid-related issues, and not "sharing my husband" related issues. As a stepmom, it's sometimes hard to know where you belong. I've been raising these kids 60% of the time for five years now. Hard to share that with their mom living here, but we are figuring it out.

Thinking it might be a good beach day for all of us. We live near a lake. Hoping today goes as well as the other three have.

Ex-wife has moved back in

I can relate, in a way. I've been with my primary male partner for 10 years, but we do not live together. We actually have 4 houses between us (2 each) which does keep us busy and makes it harder to spend a lot of time together.

He and his ex-wife have a 16 year old son. The son was 6 when I met my partner. After struggling with joint custody for about 5 years, somehow it worked out for her to move back into the house. So when I spend the weekend there, she is there too.

If she was interested in sex, they would probably have sex, but she doesn't seem to be interested. It works out for them. She has a place to live without having to worry about rent or a house note. The son has both parents in the household (except when his dad is at the other house) and my partner (the dad) has someone to do his clothes and take care of the house, which is good for me too. That way I don't have to worry about all of that. I have my own properties to worry about.

This would not be acceptable for a lot of monogamous people. Even though they are not sexual, it would still be threatening for a lot of people.

My thoughts are-- forget what the "norm" is, and figure out what will be a win for all involved. Do it, as long as it's working!

You definitely have a lot going on... Sometimes life brings us into unexpected situations, and often changes happen suddenly and accumulate like an avalanche. I hope it goes fine with you all. My guess is that there will be some rough patches ahead, but it might well be worth it. Cherish all the small (and bigger) goodies in your new everyday life, and it will give you strength to go on.

It sounds like your life is as hectic as mine.

The second day went even better than the first. Amanda and I were able to have a chat about cooking schedules, kid issues, chores for everyone, and had a discussion about if we wanted some kind of schedule for who gets time with Neverwhere and when, or if we want to play it by ear. We voted for play it by ear.

We are still really excited about building her a small two-bedroom in our garage. She is so happy to be here, and so in love with our whole family being together. She is even more new to poly than I am. I was explaining the difference between polygamy and polyamory. With our situation here, I joked with Amanda and Neverwhere that we are polygamists. lol. She and I are like sister wives, but I might date someone else. She is mono and is only interested in Neverwhere, which actually is working quite well.

I keep waiting for the big fights and issues. I'm sure they'll come. But for now, things continue to be an awesome adventure.

We are well into week two of Amanda (my husband's ex wife) living with us. There has been far more good than bad.

I think the hardest part for me is feeling even more unimportant as a stepmom. If you've ever been a stepparent, you understand the struggles we go through to find our place in the blended family dynamic. Are we a parent? Are we a fun aunt/uncle? Are we just "dad/mom's wife/husband"? Or do we fade into the background and become...nothing?

For the past five years I have been a parent. Neverwhere and I made decisions together and ran our household as a team. He often disagreed with Amanda on smaller parenting issues, and so we very much had a "mom's house/dad's house" rule structure, meaning that the kids lived completely different lives at both households and had to remember which house they were in to remember which rules they were supposed to follow. Often Amanda had very few rules, and we ran a much more structured house.

It has been... interesting... to try to combine that into one household now. I think for the most part we have done very well so far. But tonight was not a good night for me.

Once again, none of my issues arise because of jealousy over my husband. More so over my kids. I am having difficulty living with both bio parents in the house, and wondering, "Am I even necessary anymore?" I have always been the codependent savior of the family, willing to give up everything I want for what everyone else wanted or needed. Going to all the parent/teacher conferences, even when the kids' mom and dad couldn't make it. Doing all the extracurricular stuff, worrying about the kids' education, doctor's appointments, and religious training. You'd think I'd be happy to share the burden, but mostly I'm just finding it difficult to give up control.

I am struggling tonight and hoping for a better tomorrow.

idealist said:

I can relate in a way. I've been with my primary male partner for 10 years but we do not live together. He and his ex-wife have a 16 year old son. The son was 6 when I met my partner. After struggling with joint custody for about 5 years, somehow it worked out for her to move back into the house. So when I spend the weekend there, she is there too. If she was interested in sex, they would probably have sex, but she doesn't seem to be interested. It works out for them.

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It's nice you guys have found a way to make that work. May I ask why you each support two houses? I thought at first one was for the ex-wife, but you said she moved back in, so I'm just curious.

Six days since my day of frustration with stepkid/stepmom issues. Things have resolved nicely. Amanda (the kids' mom) told me that I shouldn't feel like I can't parent still, especially since we are all living in my home. Well, mine and Neverwhere's.

We came up with some more middle of the road rules for the kids, and it seems to be going well.

We had a rough weekend here. There was a lot of tension about some relationship issues. But in the end, I'm glad my husband and I have come such a long way in our communication with one another. Years ago, this would have been an unbelievably huge deal, involving lots of fighting, but now we get to talk about each other's issues and come to a compromise.

In other news, the guy I was seeing has decided he doesn't have time for a relationship right now. Wow, that seems like quite the ironic comment since I have four kids, my husband, his ex-wife, and my BIL living with us, and I still have free time. So I decided to just sit back and relax about that one. We have a lot in common, so we can be friends for now. When he has the time.

Meanwhile, my husband and I have done a lot of talking and we've decided that I should try dating my BIL. We'll call him Mark. I'm really trying to keep my life as private as I can, even though I do need the support of this board. So... much deliberation and discussion of how this would go and work and such. Mark and I are going to try a romantic relationship. We dated 6 years ago, before I even met my husband. We had great chemistry, but it just wasn't meant to work out then. Mark introduced me to his brother, and we hit it off right away, and got married that year.

The four of us adults (Neverwhere, me, Amanda, and Mark) all live together, so it seems to work well that we would all be involved in this aspect of our lives. I am excited to see how much farther our family develops.

Wow, to clarify, Mark and Neverwhere are brothers, and you are considering dating Mark, as well as being married to Neverwhere? That should be an interesting journey. You have history, too. I hope things go well.

A few months back, I went on a bit of a reading blitz over 'fraternal polyandry' (being married to two or more brothers) as it seemed to be one of the few accepted social examples (in certain cultures) of a female having multiple male partners. Just thought I'd drop a comment in case you hadn't come across it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry#Fraternal_polyandry

Yep, they are brothers. And actually, my husband wanted me to ask the question on here (even though he's a member on this board as well) about if anyone had heard of a woman dating brothers before. He is accepting of it, but feels odd about it too, as if even in this world it is taboo. I really don't know. I have no siblings, myself. I can see from Neverwhere's perspective how it might seem off. I'm trying to look at it from all sides.

In the meantime, Mark and I are taking things slow and haven't even had an official date yet. But I will definitely take a look at that article. I don't even know if you can classify what we have going on in this household, with an ex-wife, two brothers, and me, the new wife. So different from what I've seen, in my limited poly experience.

multiple houses

JadeDoor said:

May I ask why you each support two houses? I thought at first one was for the ex-wife, but you said she moved back in, so I'm just curious.

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Although I consider Richard my primary partner and we are planning our retirement together, we have never shared a home. We do spend time at each other's houses. When we met 10 years ago, we had each just built our houses (the main ones that we live in). Since then, we have each purchased an investment property. He lives part time in each of his houses because of his job. I live in my main house, and spend time occasionally at my beach house.

It is pretty interesting for his ex to be at his main house when I am there, which has been a lot lately. We work together to make his life more comfortable, and he does the same for each of us.

This week has been great at our house, probably the smoothest since we started this experiment. Before that, we were all really struggling with some jealousy over small issues, and while jealousy still comes up from time to time, it's often quickly solved and remedied.

I'm still impressed by how far Neverwhere has come in his journey. I was the one initially interested in poly for many years. He always swore he could never do it. Now he is so comfortable with it, it's like it was meant to be. Like the four of us (Neverwhere, me, Amanda, and Mark) have been leading up to this for our entire lives.

Mark and I actually dated six years ago, and when it didn't work out, he introduced me to his brother, Neverwhere. Amanda and Neverwhere's marriage lasted quite a while (10 years) and they had some good times, but it ended really badly. It was like we were all waiting to mature and grow as individuals before we could make this all work together.

Mark and I had our "first date" (our first since we started polyamory) last Monday, and then we were also able to go out this past Saturday, as well. Amanda and Neverwhere spent those evenings together at home with our children.

The kids have adjusted wonderfully to this new life we have in our household. They're happy to see both their bio parents happy and friendly and spending time together. They also think nothing of seeing their uncle give me a hug and a kiss when he gets home from work, since he gives one to their mom, as well. I haven't seen the kids this well adjusted in years. They have new life in them!

The entire house has been reading "The 5 Love Languages" and it has helped with our communication in the household, even Mark and Amanda, who are not romantically involved.

The last few days have been stressful here and we're not even sure why. Nothing earth shattering, but Neverwhere and I have been on edge. It's one thing to go out on dates, but when your dates live with you, the silliest things bother you.

I got extremely annoyed with Amanda the other day. I know her feelings on this are more that she and I are sister wives, but that's simply not the case for Neverwhere and me. We are each others primaries, while Amanda and Mark are secondaries. They're very important to us, and we are loyal to our household here, and put their needs above someone else we may be casually dating, but Neverwhere and I are still each other's main focus.

Our kids (2 of my stepsons) are playing baseball for the town this season. We also homeschool them. Previously, it was always I who took them to everything and took charge of their schooling. Amanda hasn't had a license in many years. I don't think she's ever owned a car. So it was always me. She would have them for 2 days of school, and I, as their stepmom, had them for 3 days, and she still wouldn't get the follow-up work done on her days.

Now she has gone to a couple baseball practices without me (Neverwhere and Mark are coaching) and has acted as Neverwhere's wife at these practices. That is very hard for me. It's harder still to watch her do these fun things. Yet yesterday, when I gently suggested she might want to go to her son's dentist appointment with him to get a filling, she showed no interest. And this past week, while I've done lesson plans, she's shown zero interest. It's nice she trusts me, but...

As I said in one of my previous entries, the difficulty doesn't come from my husband having sex with someone else; it's because of the everyday little annoyances.

Neverwhere gets the same way with Mark, but I'll let him write about that, if he ever feels he wants to.

JadeDoor said:

Now she has gone to a couple baseball practices without me (Neverwhere and Mark are coaching) and has acted as Neverwhere's wife at these practices. That is very hard for me. It's harder still to watch her do these fun things. Yet yesterday when I gently suggested she might want to go to her son's dentist appointment witg him to get a filling, she showed no interest. And this past week while I've done lesson plans she's shown zero interest. It's nice she trusts me, but...

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Hi. Love your blog.

It seems to me she's more interested in Neverwhere than her own children. Yes, she went to their baseball game, but not to root for the kids, to show up as her ex's "wife." When given the opportunity to be responsible for her kids, she left it up to you.

I think this aspect of Amanda will blow up in you guys' faces, sooner than later, too. It seems she has no underlying motives, and is just "being," but your household needs to get back to communicating about parenting expectations, responsibilities, etc. If she's out there for "show" to the public, then she needs to take on more of the childrearing in the home, as well.

I'm not sure how much you and Neverwhere want on boundaries, but it sounds like Amanda does not get the difference between primary and secondary. You may need to take a step back and look at the world in her shoes. She was his first wife. She thinks of the two of you as sister wives (not what you and your husband want), and so she's probably having expectations (not spoken) about where this relationship with her ex will be in the long term.

I clicked on this yesterday and it gave a great description of types of poly relationships. MODELS. Maybe print it off and have all four of the adults read through it. It might help with the understanding of primary and secondary.

alibabe_muse said:

It seems to me she's more interested in Neverwhere than her own children. Yes, she went to their baseball game, but not to root for the kids but as her ex's "wife." When given the opportunity to be responsible for her kids, she left it up to you.

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This has always been an issue between her and me. I am a control freak, so I never minded doing all the hard work, but now we all live together and should share it.

alibabe_muse said:

I think this aspect of Amanda will blow up in you guys' faces, sooner than later...

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It has now. Exactly as you said. The parenting expectations are way off base from one another. We are getting more on track now. I'll explain more in my next post.

Things have been up and down, but all four adults now seem to be on the same page about what we want. We're just trying to get there.

Neverwhere, Amanda and I went to our family counselor together. Amanda had never been, despite being diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety. It was hard for her. Her mother raised her to be afraid to speak up for herself or about thoughts and ideas, called her stupid all the time, was just very cruel and abusive to her.

So for Amanda to think about opening up now... she knows it will take a lot of work, and she is terrified. I am trying to be very supportive of her, and our friendship has grown through that. She now realizes she and Neverwhere are not primaries. I think that is hard for her, but she gets it. She doesn't understand fully who he is now, and she is trying to catch up. They had a bad marriage, and it's odd for her to see him being so sweet and nice to her, to me, etc. She gets uncomfortable.

Things between Mark and me are going well. We've had a few disagreements, but that's to be expected. I think it's been hard for Neverwhere to see how easy that relationship is. He expected that he and Amanda would never fight and would have the easy relationship in the house. What was there to fight about? They're divorced. They're just dating now. They don't share finances or a lot of responsibilities beyond the kids. But yet they are the most difficult in the house. So it's been hard for Neverwhere to see Mark and me kind of breezing through it. He's been supportive, though. And we are all hoping for things to settle between him and Amanda.

Amanda and Neverwhere have a therapy appointment coming up this Thursday and I have high hopes for it. She requested it, so perhaps she is ready to open up a little bit more to him. I hope that for both of them.

I guess I shouldn't have had such high hopes for the therapist. Amanda broke up with my husband at the therapist's office. She said she needs to do work on herself. Neverwhere told her then that she would always have an open place as his secondary. He's not sure if he feels that way now, four days later.

She is going to continue living with us. They share kids together and this way the kids don't have to shuffle back and forth. But it's been very difficult on my husband. And on me. And on my boyfriend, because he's stressed now too, wondering what his place will be.

Neverwhere isn't dating anyone else at the moment, and hasn't had much luck finding anyone interested in poly in our area, even on OKC. I feel so badly for him and my heart hurts.

I can hope that Amanda comes around and through work with our family therapist is able to realize what it is she wants, but that could take months or years. In the meantime, my husband is frustrated and heartbroken, and the rest of us don't feel much better.

JadeDoor said:

I guess I shouldn't have had such high hopes for the therapist.

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I probably wouldn't blame the therapist. They probably just brought everything to light, things that would have come up eventually, anyway. It is unlikely that divorced people would be able to get back together without actively working on the underlying issues that caused the divorce in the first place. I'm not sure if that work is going to be possible with them being in the same household.

I know you guys are still pretty young and that you had/have high hopes for this relationship configuration, which is great.

Polyamory is great. However, it is difficult, and requires emotional maturity to pull it off. Emotional maturity is earned through time by working on issues as they arise. It is hard enough to maintain a healthy relationship between two people, and when you add two more people, an ex and a brother(!), there are bound to be issues and drama.

Welcome to polyamory! Best wishes for all of you. Keep sharing. It is possible!

Sorry, that was unclear. I'm not blaming our therapist. She's amazing. I just meant I had very different hopes about how that therapy session would go. Our therapist is very helpful and thinks we're all pretty amazing for attempting what we are.

Honestly, I don't know if Amanda has it in her to make the personal growth that is necessary to be romantically involved with anyone, let alone her ex.