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  #21  
Old 04-28-2014, 08:41 PM
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Actually Marcus, I was responding to the I'm mistaken Turk/Algerian comment that London made.

I actually have a hard time seeing the difference between saying "I'm poly, not a swinger" and saying "I'm from other ethnic group not this one" if it's to be framed that way. There is usually one person who thinks that but making a distinction between my lifestyle/experience/heritage, in somehow rejecting or that I have a negative view on the other. That's a leap.
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  #22  
Old 04-28-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICanBeStunning View Post
Actually Marcus, I was responding to the I'm mistaken Turk/Algerian comment that London made.

I actually have a hard time seeing the difference between saying "I'm poly, not a swinger" and saying "I'm from other ethnic group not this one" if it's to be framed that way. There is usually one person who thinks that but making a distinction between my lifestyle/experience/heritage, in somehow rejecting or that I have a negative view on the other. That's a leap.
That's the point. There isn't anything wrong with saying "I'm poly, not a swinger" or "I'm from this ethnic background, not that ethnic background". It's when one says "I'm x, not y" and then goes on to imply that being y is inferior to being x that a problem arises.
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  #23  
Old 04-28-2014, 08:52 PM
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But when it has a negative impact on your life then it is an issue
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  #24  
Old 04-28-2014, 09:03 PM
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It only has a negative impact because people generally view swingers negatively. Even poly people. They do this because the rules of swinging are pretty much "have sex not only outside the confines of a loving relationship but also outside the loving relationship you're already in". It doesn't only breach the monogamy "laws", it breaches the promiscuity "laws" too.

I don't think joining in the consensus is healthy in regards to this issue. I also think if you agree that sex outside the confines of a loving relationship is morally wrong in that way, it would serve you well to examine your general views about sex. That's not to say that everyone should be having that type of sex or have relationships with people who desire that type of sex, but one certainly shouldn't be condemning other people who do.

Again, going back to my ethnicity issue, I can understand it being problematic that people believe I'm a terrorist, but my issue should be with racial stereotyping, not that people think I'm Muslim/Algerian/Turkish.

Last edited by london; 04-28-2014 at 09:06 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-28-2014, 09:50 PM
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Re:
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"Again, going back to my ethnicity issue, I can understand it being problematic that people believe I'm a terrorist, but my issue should be with racial stereotyping, not that people think I'm Muslim/Algerian/Turkish."
That makes sense to me.

---

Okay, idea: When outing oneself to the uninitiated, perhaps one could say, "I'm not a swinger, but I am a polyamorist." Then one could just answer whatever questions the other person might have about that statement.

If the other person answered me by saying, "It's the same thing," then I suppose I'd say, "Well you have to understand, swing is more about casual sex whereas polyamory is more about emotional attachment."

Suppose the other person then tells me, "Who are you kidding? You polyamorists are just as fixated on sex as swingers are." Couple of ways I could respond, one of which might be, "Well gee, I think the human species as a whole is rather fixated on sex -- and I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing."

In any argument that develops, I don't want my objective to be winning the argument. Instead, I want to try to make sure that whatever I say is stuff I can feel good about saying when I think about it later on.

---

If I understand what's being argued in this thread, the problem is that too many swingers are too fast and loose with sex and as a result polyamorists get a bad reputation because it's assumed that polyamorists, too, must play fast and loose with sex. The implication, essentially, would be that the percentage of unprincipled swingers is greater than the percentage of unprincipled polyamorists, and therefore polyamorists are receiving undue criticism for a greater amount of bad behavior than they're actually guilty of.

If I have misunderstood what's being argued in this thread, then I am willing to receive criticism/correction so as to get a better understanding of the issues. But in the meantime, my response (to my own assumption) is that I don't know that many swingers, so I don't know how "guilty/dirty/shallow" they are as a whole. I tend to be an optimist about such things, but if the pessimistic view is the correct view in this case, then I'll admit it's a shame and a bum deal for ethical polyamorists as well. Still, what can I do, other than try to explain what being polyamorous means to me personally when I out myself?

If swing per se is being looked down upon as being less noble than polyamory by definition, well, that's nothing new among polyamorists. I personally feel that swing per se is just fine, even if it's not my cup of tea (or even just not the path I happened to end up on in life). I don't mind defending swing in one conversation if the other person isn't yet ready to learn about how poly differs. Understanding what responsible non-monogamy is, in my opinion, is higher-priority knowledge to impart to others than is the difference between poly and swing. I can get around to explaining the difference between poly and swing in some future conversation.

The important thing, I think, is just being able to know that in some small way, I helped (or tried to help) another person gain a better understanding about some subject that is in some way related to polyamory. Swing is related in the sense of being another type of (presumably responsible) non-monogamy. That's close enough for now, given how much ignorance about non-monogamy exists in our society.

---

Like london said, the rules are different when you're swinging. Polyamory breaks the rules of monogamy by saying you can have sex with more than one person as long as you're emotionally committed to whomever you have sex with. Swing breaks the rules of polyamory by saying you can have sex with more than one person as long as you want to have sex with them.

I choose not to swing, but not because I think it's a morally inferior model of behavior. Polyamory just happens to be the model of behavior that works for me in my life. So no, I don't mind swingers or what they do at all. And I don't mind ending up in a position where I'm speaking up in their defense. I trust they'd do the same for me.
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  #26  
Old 04-28-2014, 10:23 PM
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What amuses me is that some of my friends who are swingers have told me I'm cheating on Hubby because I'm in love with Guy.

Some people are going to use the terms that make sense to them. Some are going to use incorrect terms even if they've been informed of the correct one.

To my complete amazement, over the weekend I had to explain the difference between polygamy and polyamory to *Hubby* of all people... he'd heard the words but not the definitions and so didn't realize the difference. So there's often a learning curve.
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2014, 10:25 PM
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Good points ...
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  #28  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:23 AM
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Many people think they know what swinging is, but don't. They associate it with the old "key parties" and Plato's Retreat but don't realize that many swingers hook up with certain people on a regular basis, have good friendships with other couples they swing with, and aren't randomly fucking a different stranger every night. All they know is that married people are going out and fucking people they're not married to, without keeping it a secret from each other.

So, they hear about any kind of consenting non-monogamy and they think it is swinging, if they don't first confuse it with religious-based polygamy.

People have all kinds of misperceptions about poly. I remember talking about it to a guy I met at a bar once. At first, he was obviously intrigued and seemed rather positive about it, until the conversation progressed some more and he said something that clearly showed he thought I was bi. When I told him I am straight, a look of disgust showed on his face and he was aghast. Suddenly, I was no longer intriguing. I was just a sleazy slut in his eyes, for not being happy with only one penis in my life!
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-29-2014 at 01:37 AM.
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  #29  
Old 04-29-2014, 07:03 PM
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I've experienced that type of reaction too... An online friend of mine talks freely about how her husband allows her to have sex with other *women*, but told me flat out that I was "wrong" for wanting to have more than one man in my life.
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  #30  
Old 04-29-2014, 08:30 PM
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So maybe people are accepting non-monogamy as a "solution" for bisexual people, thinking a bisexual person "has" to have one partner of each gender? Maybe they're only ready to accept polyamory as some kind of necessary evil for "special cases." Which may be progress for some people, who knows.

I wonder if swing as a whole is evolving into a "more poly" version of swing than what it was traditionally? I am certainly one of the people who barely knows anything about swing, so that's admittedly idle speculation on my part. I have met a good number of people who started out as strictly swingers, and then decided polyamory was more what they were looking for.
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