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  #11  
Old 02-28-2010, 07:28 PM
saudade saudade is offline
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Default How we do it

In my family (I'm the pivot in the V, and we're all open to taking on additional partners), I suppose we all have a veto agreement in place, though none of us have ever used that power per say. In practice, what we do comes out somewhere between what I think of in my head as a veto agreement (in which someone says "I want X" and someone else says "I veto that") and GroundedSpirit's example in the third post on this thread:

Quote:
You want to do X
I'm uncomfortable with that. I tell you why. It may involve safety etc. I may have insight you are not aware of. YOU may have info I am not aware of.
One we have all the facts in front of us so both are at the same level - you still choose to do X
I lose respect for you, our relationship and may develop real concerns about your judgment.

OR

You proceed to do X against my recommendation
It turns out well
I learn something, about myself, about your judgment etc.
I'm big enough to admit I was mistaken, have learned something, and we become closer
In my family, we do need permission from each other to broaden the existing rules (like adding a new person to the mix). This arrangement works for all of us we tend to give permission liberally, even when we are feeling a little bit wibbly, and because we handle bigger wibbles by doing a lot of work to find mutually agreeable solutions, which are always open to revision.

Our rules also tend to be descriptive rather than prescriptive. For example, we have a friend M who just had a rough (monogamous) break-up. He and I make out occasionally, and it's a comfort/de-stressing/buddy bonding thing. I got permission from Z (one of my partners) before it happened the first time, and then he and I talked afterwards. We agreed that the nature of my relationship with M shouldn't really involve sex, given where he's at emotionally, and that we wouldn't be comfortable if it happened. We also agreed that if that seems likely to change that Z and I would talk again. In this case, setting a rule was more like making sure we were all clear about what was happening and what was not. (For the record, my other partner K has given standing permission for anything; he's been practicing poly for a lot longer than Z and has a more laissez faire attitude toward his partner(s) developing additional relationships.)

On the subject of vetos specifically: while I've never heard a "no" come from any of us, I have heard a "not yet". It was a lot like dakid's idea of a "temporary closure" from the seventh post on this thread; there had been a lot of changes and stressors, both poly-related and otherwise, and Z asked me to give him a little time to process things. I said that was fine, and a week or two later he gave me the go-ahead.

~S
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2010, 07:49 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saudade View Post
In my family (I'm the pivot in the V, and we're all open to taking on additional partners), I suppose we all have a veto agreement in place, though none of us have ever used that power per say. In practice, what we do comes out somewhere between what I think of in my head as a veto agreement (in which someone says "I want X" and someone else says "I veto that") and GroundedSpirit's example in the third post on this thread:



In my family, we do need permission from each other to broaden the existing rules (like adding a new person to the mix). This arrangement works for all of us we tend to give permission liberally, even when we are feeling a little bit wibbly, and because we handle bigger wibbles by doing a lot of work to find mutually agreeable solutions, which are always open to revision.

Our rules also tend to be descriptive rather than prescriptive. For example, we have a friend M who just had a rough (monogamous) break-up. He and I make out occasionally, and it's a comfort/de-stressing/buddy bonding thing. I got permission from Z (one of my partners) before it happened the first time, and then he and I talked afterwards. We agreed that the nature of my relationship with M shouldn't really involve sex, given where he's at emotionally, and that we wouldn't be comfortable if it happened. We also agreed that if that seems likely to change that Z and I would talk again. In this case, setting a rule was more like making sure we were all clear about what was happening and what was not. (For the record, my other partner K has given standing permission for anything; he's been practicing poly for a lot longer than Z and has a more laissez faire attitude toward his partner(s) developing additional relationships.)

On the subject of vetos specifically: while I've never heard a "no" come from any of us, I have heard a "not yet". It was a lot like dakid's idea of a "temporary closure" from the seventh post on this thread; there had been a lot of changes and stressors, both poly-related and otherwise, and Z asked me to give him a little time to process things. I said that was fine, and a week or two later he gave me the go-ahead.

~S
I dunno, but isn't that more of a "boundary negotiation" than a "veto?" Going at the pace of the one who is struggling the most? "Veto power" is more that a partner can put a block on the whole thing, hands down for whatever their reason is.... no?
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2010, 01:06 AM
saudade saudade is offline
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Default Clarifying

Redpepper,

What we do on a daily basis is definitely boundary negotiation. I like that term for it! We do still have veto power, however (even if we've never used it). I've gotten the sense that Z feels more comfortable knowing that he has the option, and I feel that way a bit myself. It's like having a safety valve; even if the mechanism is unlikely to implode, it's still reassuring to know there's a fail-safe in place.

Now that I'm reflecting on it, part of why that ability is so comforting to Z and I (and not especially important to K) is that it has a bit of our flavor of dominance/submission to it. We do take care of each other quite a bit, and the ability to veto a prospective partner is another way of caring for each other.

~S
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2010, 01:11 AM
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Ah, fair enough.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2010, 09:40 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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I think that different people have different ways of implementing the negotiation phase when someone new comes along.

Some couple are fine with anybody, some would like to have a say in things, some others feel the need for a "STOP" button if they feel that things are getting out of control.

I know what you mean, GS - it can smack of control if it is mis-used.

I also think that the need for a VETO tends to moderate as the perceived level of security in the setup increases.

There is one maxim about entering poly that you go at the speed at which everyone is comfortable - this means that everyone needs the ability to say "hold on - stop thing for a while, we need to talk". If this is a good-faith thing, and not some way of manipulating the situation, then to me it seems like it is respectful to allow everyone that ability. Is that a VETO?

This is a debate that has been going on for as long as I have been involved in the poly community with some considering absolute VETO power as evil (and criticising anybody who doesn't think the same), and others who see the need for it in special circumstances.

I know that our need for it has diminished as we have got things more sorted out - now it's more the idea that because we tend more towards the polyfi variety of poly that we want "buy-in" from everyone involved, since they will all be involved with each pother in one way or another. We don't consider that a VETO, though - it's just one of the many things that we have agreed to agree upon.
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2011, 06:48 AM
fullofdumplins fullofdumplins is offline
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Default Veto Power...?

Just wanted to open up a discussion on vetoing; do you use veto and if so, what are the guidelines you have with placing a veto?

The boyfriend and I have decided a while back that we are able to place in vetoes: some are non-negotiable while others can be added/removed as we see fit. We are not in a poly relationship at this point in time but it is something that we have discussed while we practice non-monogamy, and I hope we will eventually move forward to a poly relationship in future.

Does placing vetoes seem like a smart idea or is this something that takes away from the relationship?
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:21 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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I would consider using a veto in two very specific cases;

1) adding another partner would seriously take up already thinly-divided time. Say, my partner would consider taking on a fifth partner. I say four is pretty much the upper limit I can see one person engaging with at the same time and still having enough time for work, hobbies, other duties etc.
2) continuing a relationship with one partner is seriously threatening the wellbeing of everyone in the constellation. I'm thinking drug addictions, trouble with the law, acute mental health breakdowns, compulsive lying, cheating, violent behavior, something of that magnitude.

Using a veto in any other case, because of insecurity, jealousy etc. I think undermines the foundation of the relationship and might lead to resentment and boundary-breaking. Haven't thought the implications of absolute vs. negotiable vetoes. Are you thinking of something along the lines of a person A being off-limits for now, but maybe not so in the future?
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:31 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Honestly, I dislike veto power greatly. Unless there is something dangerous in the mix (see BU's number 2 as some examples). I have seen what it can do to people, and unless you have control of your own relationship, it will never ever be relaxed or stable or even fun. At some point you have to be trusted as an adult, to manage your own shit. Otherwise, why are you getting involved with people?

People believe veto power can only come from a spouse saying "no this isn't happening" But how is it different if there is no veto power on the table but the spouse acts like a lunatic and it ends. It isn't...

I would outright refuse to get involved with someone who has veto ability. Its not worth my time to be involved with someone who doesn't have control of our relationship.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2011, 05:24 PM
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I agree with Ari. That's a surprise!
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2011, 06:15 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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I equate veto power to a sort of panic button. It allows one partner to pull the plug without any need to work through their own emotions or have a dialogue with their SO about concerning behaviour, etc.

Want poly without the work? Try Veto™*!



*side effects may include: resentment from your partner, treating others as disposible objects, never learning to deal with shit
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agreements, contracts, control issues, envy, jealous, jealousy, metamour concerns, new to poly, nre, relationship dynamics, relationship issues, secondaries, secondary, sex, veto, veto policy, veto power, vetos

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