Clock is Ticking

I have been in a strictly monogamous relationship (for 17 years now) and it has been good (except for the sex, which started out "ok" and became non-existent over the last 10 years - after our youngest child was conceived). My wife has some health issues, but she's isn't happy with the situation either (we talked about it, but not enough - in my opinion). I feel like a nag (both in wanting sex and wanting to talk about it), and recently realized I feel unloved and neglected by her acceptance of a sexless marriage.

This past year I've felt a little more impatient and tried to press for some kind of resolution and improvement. But, well, I'm getting kind of the silent treatment / no change at all. I realize old habits die hard, but I've also been extremely patient for many years, and well, I've just run out of that patience.

So, around to why I'm here. A few weeks ago I signed up on OKCupid and just started exploring a little and thinking about what options might be out there for other romantic relationships. To be honest, I started with the (immature?) idea that having a "friends with benefits" situation would be ideal. I love my wife, but I feel like she can't meet my needs and wouldn't it be better to keep the family together for the kids and the stability, but add some spice to our lives (though, I must admit feeling a bit selfish for expressing it this way). I have no indication that she's at all interested in a similar situation, but I don't have a problem with that if she did.

As I explored I found some people in polyamorous situations and thought, hmm, could that work? Could an "open marriage" work for us? I've read about it, encountered a few people who live this way, so it's not a totally foreign concept to me. I don't want to idealize it for sure, and I found some basic information about it and have been learning. It is somewhat daunting; in my case how would I manage my responsibility to my kids and all the other things I do (I'm already busy), and then add another person or persons into the mix? It sounds complicated, difficult, and fraught with easy ways to make multiple relationships suck. On the other hand, it also sounds fulfilling, interesting, and a way to grow as a person ... if not a way to share with others and enrich other people's lives too. Sharing is good, right?

So, that's the intro. I've not said anything to my wife and would appreciate advice on ways that would be less dramatic to break it to her (and I'm pretty sure she would not be open to "opening" our marriage). It probably sounds strange to be here asking for what might be marriage advice. Or how to manage my sexual desires. Or anything in-between. But, what I've learned is that the poly community is really mature and skilled in this kind of thing and not afraid to say it like it is. I'm not interested in sugar coating things, just interested in finding a solution or situation that works for everyone.
 
Welcome to the board. Others will be along soon with some great links and resources.

If your marriage is not solid and going well, it's definitely not the time to open your marriage and start a poly relationship. It won't go well (even assuming your wife agrees). It's like having a baby to solve marital problems: it won't make it better, it will make it worse. Poly will shine a huge spotlight on every problem in your relationship. It's challenging for couples with rock-solid marriages to open them successfully, though it can be an amazing and rewarding experience; but, people looking to solve relationship problems with poly end up hurting everyone involved.

If your wife won't address the issues with you in your current state, this isn't the time to bring up opening your marriage. It will feel like a threat. The sex issues need to be addressed separately, and if sex is very important to you and your wife doesn't want to address it, there are other relationship issues there that should be worked on. She may have hormonal issues, emotional issues, relationship issues, etc.; but, don't make the mistake of thinking sex outside your marriage will necessarily make your marriage better, because it's not addressing the underlying issues.

Research poly, read the forums, read the books, and think about what you'd like out of it. But, before even considering doing it in practice, work on your relationship and yourselves (with a counselor, a poly-friendly one if you and your wife are really thinking you some day want to open your relationship). Successful polyships are formed for the same reasons as all successful romantic relationships, not as a way to solve current relationship issues.
 
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If your marriage is not solid and going well, it's definitely not the time to open your marriage and start a poly relationship.
Thanks for your comments - yes, I totally understand. Our marriage is actually quite good ... just the sex part isn't. So, to be a little more specific - I'm wondering what would be a good way to bring up the idea of an open relationship? She's a pretty progressive person, but I think, like a lot of us, has this ideal concept of marriage and I'm not sure exactly how to break that without breaking us. Maybe that's not possible, I don't know.
 
Hello and welcome.

You are flirting with disaster, frankly. Polyamory is absolutely the worst possible way to try and fix a marriage that isn't working. It seems obvious to me there are deeper issues at work here, not just lack of sex. Your wife has health problems, isn't happy with no sex, but lacks motivation to change that, and doesn't want to talk about it. You are taking it all personally, letting resentment grow, and are looking in secret for options that will get you laid. Not a good start. Poly should begin from an open, loving, stable partnership where you and your partner have discussed all the options and possibilities and are in complete agreement about going forward. If you are getting the cold shoulder, I would say there are issues in communication between you two, as a start. There is also a strong possibility that your wife is very depressed.

If I were you, I would tell your wife, "We have to talk about this and find a solution. I cannot tolerate inaction anymore and this is serious - our relationship is at stake." Don't let a cold shoulder continue. You have to be as persistent and proactive as you wish she would be.

I would look for a couples counselor or marriage therapist right away. Forget about poly for now - just whack off until you two reach a place where you can amicably either seek out others or part ways. A solution to your unhappy sex life needs to happen first - sex and intimacy are a very important component of intimate partnerships like marriage and even though you say that is the only thing wrong and everything else is great, things don't become problematic in a vacuum. Believe me, I was in a marriage that was sexless for a few years before it ended. There is more behind the lack of sex. So, you need to fix that before even thinking about taking a lover. Otherwise, you are just bringing your problems and laying them at someone else's feet, hoping they will fix it all - basically doing what can only be done by you and your wife.

Besides, ask yourself what woman in her right mind would want to be a part of that scenario, as a FWB or anything else? That is way too much baggage and expectation to lay on someone. As a woman who practices poly, I would never want to be a Band-Aid for someone's failing marriage, just there to boost him up and sex him because he's unhappy at home. Yuck!
 
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I have been in a strictly monogamous relationship (for 17 years now) and it has been good (except for the sex, which started out "ok" and became non-existent over the last 10 years - after our youngest child was conceived). My wife has some health issues, but she's isn't happy with the situation either (we talked about it, but not enough - in my opinion). I feel like a nag (both in wanting sex and wanting to talk about it), and recently realized I feel unloved and neglected by her acceptance of a sexless marriage.

This past year I've felt a little more impatient and tried to press for some kind of resolution and improvement. But, well, I'm getting kind of the silent treatment / no change at all. I realize old habits die hard, but I've also been extremely patient for many years, and well, I've just run out of that patience.

This isn't a solid relationship. There are really big issues contained in those words above. Sex issues, yes, but also a horrible pattern of bad communication, which will come back to bite you in the butt if you open your relationship before it's dealt with. top that off with the resentment that rings through pretty clearly in your post, and I'm guessing your wife has some feelings about this, as well, especially if she has health issues that are contributing, and you have a recipe for disaster.

I know poly sounds exciting, and you want to jump right in. It sounds like a great "solve" for current problems. But, with the poor communication, resentment, and other issues that have built up in your relationship, you will only hurt your wife, yourself, and any prospective partner(s).

In my opinion, looking outside a relationship to largely compensate for missing pieces and as a solution to your issues in a current relationship is really unfair to any prospective partners. It's a huge burden, and one they usually don't realize they're getting saddled with until they're emotionally involved.

And, also, what does your wife get out of this? Is she allowed to have partners (which, despite not having a sex drive with you, she may want--NRE is a powerful aphrodisiac)? Now you are trying to manage a relationship with bad communication and multiple outside relationships. Or, is she expected to not have other relationships, because she doesn't want sex with you? I am sure you can see the stress that's going to cause.

All that said, if you have to bring it up to her, here is an entire thread on bringing up poly to partners:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=732
 
NYCindie, you and I were sharing a brain for a few minutes, it appears!
 
Thanks for your comments - yes, I totally understand. Our marriage is actually quite good ... just the sex part isn't. So, to be a little more specific - I'm wondering what would be a good way to bring up the idea of an open relationship? She's a pretty progressive person, but I think, like a lot of us, has this ideal concept of marriage and I'm not sure exactly how to break that without breaking us. Maybe that's not possible, I don't know.

I would just tell her that you want to have sex and since she's not able to have sex with you you would like her blessing to look elsewhere for it. that's a huge part of why I got together with Nate was because I'm very sexual but my ex hardly ever have sex with me. only problem was my ex husband wasn't willing to let me have other male partners, quite honestly he wasn't even okay with me having female partners unless he was "in on it", so I had to make a choice and that choice was my happiness. hopefully that's not the case for you, you never know she might actually like having the pressure off of her I can imagine it must be a huge source of guilt for her knowing that she isn't able to help fulfill that huge desire for sexual intimacy with her
 
You are taking it all personally, letting resentment grow, and are looking in secret for options that will get you laid.

I would look for a couples counselor or marriage therapist right away. Forget about poly for now - just whack off until you two reach a place where you can amicably either seek out others or part ways.

There is more behind the lack of sex.
Wow ... ok, yes ... and I by no means mean to imply sex is the only thing lacking. There are other issues, but she's not perfect, I"m not perfect, I don't expect her to be. Communication is lacking, but it's not horrible. But again, we are really busy, kid stuff here and there, in-laws getting old (and needing care), and home ownership and all that. That's the "I'm busy" point. We're busy. And no, I don't see being "poly" as a solution or a fix for my marriage. Just, it made me think about things - - - and ...

as uncomfortable and pejorative as I've taken your comments, I brought it on and expected that (though to a lesser degree). But - to be honest, this kind of expression has been really helpful for me and I am trying to open up lines of communication and as far as anything in the poly world or OkCupid, or whatever, am just exploring intellectually - not actually/physically. I appreciate the warnings that trying to go off in secret to "get laid" is a really bad idea (and a little background, I'm quite inexperienced sexually ... having only had sex with my wife, and really only a couple other girlfriends that didn't amount to much).
 
Greetings ambivulous,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Re (from Post #3):
"So, to be a little more specific -- I'm wondering what would be a good way to bring up the idea of an open relationship? She's a pretty progressive person, but I think, like a lot of us, has this ideal concept of marriage and I'm not sure exactly how to break that without breaking us."

I don't know of any "magic words" that would defuse the bomb you're describing. The thread GreenAcres mentioned might give you some ideas; otherwise your best bet is to take Inyourendo's advice and be very direct with your wife and just lay it on the table ... the idea being that maybe an open marriage would take some of the pressure off of your wife.

But I would also carefully consider what GreenAcres and nycindie were saying ... particularly the idea of getting (poly-friendly) marriage counseling before dropping any open-marriage bombs on your wife. I would make sure you were covering all the bases ... making sure, for instance, that your wife's not suffering from depression (and maybe that's why she's lost her interest in sex).

I don't mean to take sides in the debate; it just scares me when I hear things like, "I'm pretty sure she would not be open to 'opening' our marriage," and, "I'm not sure exactly how to break that without breaking us." I don't want you to lose your marriage if it can be helped.

Continue to converse here and we'll try to help; keep us posted if you're willing on how things are going.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

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Welcome aboard!
 
Ambivulous, I understand why you're here and you seem to be sincere in your quest to form relationships that are fulfilling all around. GreenAcres and nycindie offer much warranted caveats, judging from what you're telling us about your marriage right now. I want to add to their experienced voices that a marriage indeed can be "saved" by opening to poly, but only if there is already organic, ongoing self-reflection and generosity of spirit of both spouses. Busyness can't be held up as a road block to communication. I also have a house, own a business and have kids - heck, one is even autistic. Never a shortage of "busy" around here, but there is always time for connection. No marriage is perfect, nor should it be - but every relationship is at heart a reflection of what's inside us. I find in my own life that every fear, trepidation, difficulty and road block that I so long to extricate in the other person is the very thing that is tripping me up. We always orbit up with people who perfectly reflect what's going on inside. That's why just finding another partner doesn't work in the long run and that's why just going to your wife and introducing poly isn't going to solve the intimacy issue. Yes, the initial distraction of a new person is heavenly and seems to fix everything at first, but when the months roll on, we find ourselves sitting with all of the unresolved issues that still live in our heart. Whether you choose to work with a therapist or take a more spiritual approach, you need to change you in order to see change in your relationships.
 
This past year I've felt a little more impatient and tried to press for some kind of resolution and improvement. But, well, I'm getting kind of the silent treatment / no change at all. I realize old habits die hard, but I've also been extremely patient for many years, and well, I've just run out of that patience.

Have you said "hon, it has been x years. It is time to get help" to her? And you made appt and been to a counselor? Ruled out depression, perimenopause, or any other issues that can affect libido?

Esp with depression... It can be hard for the person to help themselves out of the hole. Have you offered to help by making appointments? She has to own it and go of course. But perhaps showing her you are concerned about her well being as a whole and not just looking to get laid helps with the communication? (Not saying you are just looking to get laid... Just lifting up that a depressed person can think/see things through a skewed filter because they ARE depressed.)

Is it possible to let go of some of this busy like the eldercare by hiring caregivers so you and wife catch a break? Exhaustion can kill libido.

How comfortable are you talking about sex with wife? If PIV is difficult from perimenopause tenderness for example... Is she up for sharing outer course? Finding other sexy and sensual ways to share that closeness while working on the health stuff?

If you are past your limit of tolerance, tried all you can try.... then maybe rather than talking "opening up" you talk "divorce." Nobody is entitled to sex from a partner. But lack of communication and lack of participating in a healthy marriage? A partner is not interested in caring for themselves or interested in the marriage? They have just checked out? Going through the motions only? You are surviving but not thriving here?

That might be reason to let the marriage go rather than keep trying to fly a thing that will not fly. So you can be free to coparent only and seek something else more fulfilling romantically and thrive in that area.

Even if she does not want to, you might want to see a counselor on your own to help you organize your thoughts and plan next steps to move toward something healthier. Both plan a (together as a couple) and plan b (apart as a couple.) Then present your thoughts to her.

You can then be more confident then that whichever way it goes, you have thought it out and you will likely be ok in the end. You have support in place (counselor).

I am sorry you deal in this. It sounds difficult. But it has to be dealt with. You do not sound up for waiting another ten years to me.

Galagirl
 
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Ambivulous I bet if you asked 1000 people you find this story repeated over and over and over. I myself hear it EVERYDAY. I live it myself.

I did it both ways. My first marriage, young and broke and worked so much we never saw each other and drifted apart. I said, is this all there is going to be? There has to be more to life than this. I guided myself through a divorce and an amicable one at that.

Re-married, my husband took ill, that, I believe and many other reasons have led to a passionless marriage. However, I do love him and he is my best friend and I feel like my marriage, like you is really solid. At the time that I asked him to open our marriage it wasn't. I was sooooo frustrated I really thought it would be better to leave him. I was mad at him for giving up on us and being scared for his health, etc etc. This was over 7 years ago. He did not want to lose me. He has been very supportive of adding to our family. Finding a partner who can accept and communicate has been a challenge In our case, it did take a lot of pressure off my husband and we got back to being friends and even finding wonderful new nonsexual things to do together as a result and this has been even more fulfilling to me than sex could ever be. It has also made me appreciate him so much more. I am not saying opening my marriage fixed it, but I am saying at least I was heard and we explored the path.

You, my friend, are not alone. This story is repeated around the world. As we as a society are enlightened to the possibility of poly and that loving more than one entails so much more than just sex. The most satisfying part of the relationship was finding new common interests and rediscovering old ones.
 
Thank you all for really great insightful comments. I mentioned to my wife this morning that I'd like to get some help, that I don't think we can just mend this ourselves. She's not interested, but I'm going to schedule it anyway and if she bails, I'll just go by myself.

Regarding her decreased libido, indeed all the things people have said stemming from health issues, but also stress, maybe depression, and certainly insecurity. But I can only offer my support and being open (which I've done to the best of my ability) and reaffirm my love for her (which I do on a regular basis both with words and deeds). So ... we'll see where it goes. I'm definitely not going to pursue any poly relationship anytime soon; If we can get as far as my even suggesting it and talking about it openly is a next step - and as I said before, I'm guessing she'd put the kibosh on that. But you never know, as in Moonglow's case, maybe it will take some pressure off of my wife and she'd be glad to have me happier (and I know I would :) ).
 
Sounds like a good strategy.
 
Good for you for seeking professional help and having the willingness to go alone, since she doesn't want to. You need to address how these things have affected you, and to figure out what you want, and I think a good therapist/counselor can be a great first step.
 
It sounds like you have a good plan to go forward, and I look forward to reading more about how things progress. Wishing you the best of luck!
 
This sentence

reaffirm my love for her (which I do on a regular basis both with words and deeds).

made me think about the five love languages. Are you familiar with them? Just... what if your wife's love language is for example receiving gifts and she does not feel loved enough even though she is getting your words of affirmation and acts of service?
 
More about the five love languages:

They were first introduced in the book, "The Five Love Languages: how to express heartfelt commitment to your mate," ... by Dr. Gary Demonte Chapman (1995), relationship counselor and senior associate pastor at Calvary Baptist Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

The actual languages are:

  • Words of Affirmation,
  • Acts of Service,
  • Receiving Gifts,
  • Quality Time,
  • Physical Touch.
Dr. Chapman holds BA and MA degrees in anthropology from Wheaton College and Wake Forest University, respectively, MRE and PhD degrees from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and has completed postgraduate work at the University of North Carolina and Duke University.

The book is good to get not in the least because it includes a test you can take to determine which love language *you* speak. Your wife can take the test too if she wants/is willing, of course.
 
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