Completely New To This and Need Some Advice

nycindie

Active member
Um, hello? Why would she move in with him, or him with her, when, according to you, he "has no idea that she is thinking this?" WHA-A-A-A???

Just because it's poly doesn't mean that an attraction automatically becomes a live-in partner!

Come on, now. Telling her to move out of your place, fine, but it's way too soon for them to live together. Polyamorous relationships still go through phases of courtship and getting to know one another, like any romance does, and waiting six months to a year before even thinking about cohabiting is generally a good idea. If you agree to poly, you can do all sorts of things like not be home when she's getting ready, or she goes on simple coffee dates first but respects your boundaries limiting how physical she can be with him.

There is a whole stage of negotiating you seem to be skipping here. You also have to trust each other, and not give in to suspicious thoughts.

On the other hand, I am glad to hear that you voiced your heartfelt feelings and were able to say what you needed to. There will surely be many more difficult talks. But I wouldn't send her into his arms just yet, nor would I assume right now that you know how you will handle any of it later on. You might surprise yourself.
 
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dingedheart

Well-known member
I think you did the right thing in that lunch conversation...and what you suggested makes a great deal of sense to me. Have her move out ...let everyone take a break ...pull back a little to casual dating and explore how you to move forward. Really smart play...good job.


I'm little confused ... She can't imagine you dating or bare the thought you being sexual with others but it OK for her and the other guy.


Sounds like this other guy is poly ?...is that correct. If so how many relationships does he have currently? And why is that OK?
 

matellas

New member
No I understand about what you said and thank you. I guess I was just thinking how often it does happen where it does work out so well?
 

matellas

New member
Um, hello? Why would she move in with him, or him with her, when, according to you, he "has no idea that she is thinking this?" WHA-A-A-A???

Just because it's poly doesn't mean that an attraction automatically becomes a live-in partner!

Come on, now. Telling her to move out of your place, fine, but it's way too soon for them to live together. Polyamorous relationships still go through phases of courtship and getting to know one another, like any romance does, and waiting six months to a year before even thinking about cohabiting is generally a good idea. If you agree to poly, you can do all sorts of things like not be home when she's getting ready, or she goes on simple coffee dates first but respects your boundaries limiting how physical she can be with him.

QUOTE]

I guess that's the thing though about sending her out of the house. I don't think I would be ok watching it go on. I feel as if having her out of the house I could actually not have to think about it and could concentrate on myself and my kids. It's this tearing feeling in my stomach and my heart to think that she would be on a date with someone else. More so they have been on dates already. I say date but they see each other every night at work, they spend time "as friends" going out to eat or getting a drink or socializing with others. My work schedule prevents me from being able to spend as much time with her as I would like to so she began to fill that time making friends from work and that's how this began. Essentially the courtship has already been happening for a few months now. Has there been anykind of intimacy? All she has told me is that they slept in the same bed once and cuddled but nothing else has happened. But they talk on the phone throughout the day and text as well. If she is being honest then the only thing missing so far is the actual physical touching from courtship. I know there is a lot more than that to be had with courtship. But know also that she has spent the night on numerous occasions with him while we were having issues between us.

I understand what your saying that I may surprise myself but I have already had to watch her get ready to go out on other occasions knowing this guy would be there. I have gone with her the night before as she goes shopping and then met up with her the next night as she is wearing the outfit she bought to go out with him. I had no idea that the tight black top she had purchased would be to wear for him the next night. I guess I feel as if I have already partly been living with her seeing someone else. It's not exactly the same and there has been a HUGE loss of communication as it washappening but that's why I feel as if her being in the house would just be the straw that broke the camels back if this is to go on. I would rather her immerse herself into what she thinks she wants and find out for sure. Not that I don't want to be a part of it but as if I have spent two years sacrificing time, money and emotions to get all the way to being able to ask her marry me and then someone else is swoping in and taking that away. I don't know if I want to feel tied to someone who doesn't want the exact same or who in her words "doesn't think she could be doing what I'm doing right now."
 

matellas

New member
I think you did the right thing in that lunch conversation...and what you suggested makes a great deal of sense to me. Have her move out ...let everyone take a break ...pull back a little to casual dating and explore how you to move forward. Really smart play...good job.


I'm little confused ... She can't imagine you dating or bare the thought you being sexual with others but it OK for her and the other guy.


Sounds like this other guy is poly ?...is that correct. If so how many relationships does he have currently? And why is that OK?

Thanks for the support. I honestly didnt mean for it to come out then and it kills me to watch her cry especially from my own words but I couldn't help but get it all out to her at once.

As for her having diffuculty with me being with another girl I think in her mind again that she has this very utopian? view of how this should work out. But only when it is concerning her. That sounds worse than I mean it to though. I think she was thinking that we could all be friends and it would all work out.

This guy as far as I know has no other relationships. He moved here from Colorado with his ex wife and kid and her boyfriend. Supposedly they were all living togther until he started running out of money then she (ex) kicked him out. I guess he never sees his daughter much anymore and his daughter calls the boyfriend dad and calls him by his frist name. From the few talks he and I have had he has said he was involved in a other relationships with swingers and alluded to being in a poly relationship at one point. That's about as much as I know about him though on that.
 

nycindie

Active member
I don't think I would be ok watching it go on. I feel as if having her out of the house I could actually not have to think about it and could concentrate on myself and my kids...

I guess I feel as if I have already partly been living with her seeing someone else... I would rather her immerse herself into what she thinks she wants and find out for sure. Not that I don't want to be a part of it but as if I have spent two years sacrificing time, money and emotions to get all the way to being able to ask her marry me and then someone else is swoping in and taking that away. I don't know if I want to feel tied to someone who doesn't want the exact same or who in her words "doesn't think she could be doing what I'm doing right now."
Don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with your idea to ask her to move out. I'm just saying it seems premature if she then moves in with him. I wouldn't encourage her to do that. I would think she should find a friend to stay with or be on her own while she decides what to do. What growth can be gained by going from one shared living situation into another when she's trying to come to terms with what she wants? I don't see how it will help her. But I guess if she isn't living with you, then it's really up to her and this is a moot point.

I can totally understand that you are protecting yourself after everything you've put into this relationship. Good for you. If she does move out, would you still want to work on it, or would you consider it over?
 

matellas

New member
Don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with your idea to ask her to move out. I'm just saying it seems premature if she then moves in with him. I wouldn't encourage her to do that. I would think she should find a friend to stay with or be on her own while she decides what to do. What growth can be gained by going from one shared living situation into another when she's trying to come to terms with what she wants? I don't see how it will help her. But I guess if she isn't living with you, then it's really up to her and this is a moot point.

I can totally understand that you are protecting yourself after everything you've put into this relationship. Good for you. If she does move out, would you still want to work on it, or would you consider it over?

Her moving in with a friend I don't think is the most viable option. The problem lies in the fact that she is always concerned what people will think and her friends from work would ask why she was staying with someone else. I don't think she would want her family to know either. Though they are states away, same as mine there would be the concern that they would find out through others and if we did go back to each permamnently then dealing with the fallout from what had taken place would decimate how they look at her. Her living with him wouldn't be much different then it was just a month or two ago when she was staying there almost every night and spending almost all her time with him. I would see her maybe when she decided to come home while I was feeding the kids lunch, say hi to them for a minute, then retreat to the bedroom to take a nap. The kids and I would leave for the day and come back in the evening and there would be remanants of her getting ready to back out and clothes missing from the closet from what she had packed to go out with him and other friends.

I wouldn't consider it over though. I would consider it that we have slowed down to casually dating if she was to move out and see him. There could always be the possibilty of us working it out but there is also the reality that too much has happened and too quickly. More so than that this relationship has taken place in way that was suspicious and hurtful instead of out in the open. I'm not saying no to anything but I know I need to also come to terms with how this feels and how it makes me feel. It's like I had told her yesterday as she is crying in the car telling me she's sorry for making me hurt. I had said "No matter what someone is going to get hurt in all of this. It's just a matter of how much." There is more to it than that but the gist being that I'm already hurt, she's hurting now and if she doesn't go with this guy he will be hurt and so will she, but if she does go with him and I don't agree then I'm hurt and if I leave she's hurt and so on and so forth.
 

ThatGirlInGray

New member
It sounds to me like she needs to accept that people do indeed get hurt, especially when they make themselves vulnerable to another in a relationship. But they also heal, and the point now is where she wants to be while healing is happening and when it's finished.

If she truly wants to keep her relationship with you, she needs to let go of the idea of a deadline, period. If he's not a cowboy (someone who tries to split up an already existing couple) and truly is interested in a relationship with her, he can wait. They can wait. The utopia they may be envisioning could be possible- I'll pretty much have mine in June once my partner moves to the same city as my husband and myself- but it takes TIME. My husband and I have been slowly making the journey from open relationship to poly for FOURTEEN YEARS. TGIB and I have been on our journey together for over two years. Fast can work, such as in Phy's situation, but most of what I've seen shows that making poly work, especially starting with an already established monogamous relationship, takes honesty and communication (duh) and TIME. If she's not willing to give the time, then it seems to me she's not really interested in making poly work.

Reading "The Ethical Slut" is a good step, though. Hopefully now that you know about it you can benefit from it as well.
 

matellas

New member
You make some great points about the need for time and not having the deadline. Fourteen years is a huge amount of time but in the end anything that is good is worth the wait. As for her wanting to make poly work I'm not sure if it's her wanting it to work or just wanting it to work with him. I guess it is one in the same. But in the end as selfish as this sounds, what do I get out of all this? That's selfish at the least. I want her to be happy with or without me but I want to be happy to. Is it about selflessness in giving up to make the partner happy?
 

ThatGirlInGray

New member
No. You shouldn't have to give up who you are or what you want out of life any more than she should have to. That's another reason you BOTH really need TIME: time to process, to dig at your feelings of jealousy to find out where they're rooted and determine what it is you actually want and expect out of a relationship rather than just what you're used to being told you should want/expect by the rest of society. Poly may be something you can accept in your relationship, but it may not be. The key right now is you don't and can't know without spending a lot more time thinking about it. It most likely will not take you 14 years to come to a decision- MC and I did no reading at all, we took baby steps and discussed and took baby steps and discussed ad nauseum. But we were already somewhat used to throwing off social conditioning (ex-Catholic and ex-Jehovah's Witness, as well as me identifying as Bisexual) so we knew it was all about what we wanted for ourselves, what worked for our relationships and what would ultimately make/keep us strong. Since we had a common starting point it made everything a LOT easier. There was no dramatic "coming out" because he knew from the very beginning that I was unwilling to limit my connections with others but could keep those connections within certain agreed-upon boundaries for the sake of his comfort.

Back to the point, you get out of this what you get out of any relationship: a partner who loves you and is happy to build a life and future with you. What you need to figure out is if you CAN be happy building that life with someone who also has strong connections to a least one other person. I know that right now you feel like the thought of her being with someone else would tear you apart, and maybe that feeling will last, but maybe it will fade with time, too. I know at the beginning of this journey neither MC nor I ever thought I'd be in TWO committed relationships, but things change. So that's another reason for time. You open up the possibility to adjust and adapt to new ideas.

Let me see if I can get MC over here to give you his perspective, since he's the mono one and there may be more going on in his brain than I can guess at. :)
 

Monochrome

New member
I think most of my points have already been brought up, but I just wanted to second (or third, or fourth) the call for discussion.

Despite her deadline, it sounds like she is still confused over just what she wants. She wants to have you and this new guy, but cries at the thought of you having some other love interest? It sounds like she hasn't really examined her own feelings, because the inequality in that thought tells me that this is an impulse, possibly fueled by NRE (new relationship energy), and may not be a true inclination toward polyamory. There are many paths to polyamory, and many forms of polyamory, but wanting to have multiple relationships while limiting your partner(s) just isn't healthy.

Your inclination to have her move out may be a little extreme, but that is not so surprising considering her deadline. This may actually be why she put the deadline in place. I am only hearing his from you, and only a few posts really, but it seems that she may not want to lose you (and/or your children), but wants to pursue this relationship, so she put the deadline in place hoping for you to react. That way, she "just" put a deadline, she didn't break up with you, she didn't move out, she didn't create a poly situation, she just told you to make a decision...and put a deadline on that decision. Any breaking up, or "having a break," or moving out, any change at all, would be your choice. Except, not really. With the deadline of two weeks, she didn't really give you a chance to examine your own feelings, didn't give you a chance to read (and actually comprehend) any literature you find about polyamory, and she didn't give you a chance to talk with her and go over questions and concerns. She set it up so that anything that happens would be your choice. If things work out, then yay! If things don't work out, well, then it's your choice and your fault. She can blame you and absolve herself of guilt. And she may not even realize she's doing this, the whole process may be subconscious.
 

matellas

New member
Let me see if I can get MC over here to give you his perspective, since he's the mono one and there may be more going on in his brain than I can guess at. :)

I have to say I laughed out loud at the last part : )
I think that would be fanatstic to have his opinion.

I think what is so hard for me is when I began into this relationship that I was told that we would never have a threesome and if cheated it was over. That was two years ago but I have stuck to those rules. I was told no threesomes which I obliged. I had done that a number of times before and enjoyed it but was willing to swear it off for the sake of making it work. It feels like I have learned to be one thing for us now I'm being asked to be something else.

I guess I also have another question with all this. I know this very well may sound ignorant but I hear so much about love being involved wth all these relationships but I don't remember hearing much about being in love. To me I can see the love in other people and see it in here as well, but what I know about being in love is the feeling of doing anything for that one person. That there is nothing above them. My fiance has always been my "queen." She is what makes me smile. I have put her on a pedestal and never let falter from that. I always want her to be happy. Which I know is contradictory to what I'm saying. Her happiness and needs are paramount but I may not give her what she wants due even though I want her to be happy,.

Thank you for the answer on what I can get out of this. My thought though is this. I kind of look at this as a hunter/gather approach which I can imagine sounds totall shallow. I expend my resources to help her and she does the same for me. With a third though I'm expending the same amount of resources but only getting half from her. For example, with two small kids we are constantly cleaning up or doing stuff around our place or trying to plan for them. There is usually little free time for anything else. The time she spends now with him already and has been means that she is doing less to take care of our family's needs and the burden falls back on me. My kids are with us about 75% of the week and the other 25% with my ex. On my days off they are my whole day from 7:30am till 8:30pm. Once they go to bed I spend the time cleaning and doing laundry and plannning for the next day or even doing work for my job on my laptop. There is little time for me to myself and little time for each other. When she is spending time with him she will blow off chores that we have agreed to she would take care of and it will fall back on me. So how am I supposed to say yes to something that will add more stress to already stressfull household?

Being in two committed relationships. What happens when your the hinge? and one of the other partners now wants to take on a partner of their own? or if both of the partners want that? Do you ever just say enough we stop at this many and no more?
 

ThatGirlInGray

New member
I have to say I laughed out loud at the last part : )
I think that would be fanatstic to have his opinion.
Well, you got it! MC=Monochrome, and he posted above your last one. ^^^

I think what is so hard for me is when I began into this relationship that I was told that we would never have a threesome and if cheated it was over. That was two years ago but I have stuck to those rules. I was told no threesomes which I obliged. I had done that a number of times before and enjoyed it but was willing to swear it off for the sake of making it work. It feels like I have learned to be one thing for us now I'm being asked to be something else.
So YOU keep making agreements and changes, by YOUR choice. If you don't want to agree, that's fine, you don't have to, but looking at it as, "I did this for you, I don't want to do any more until you do something for me," is at best immature and childish, at worst dysfunctional. If her wanting to change the rules is the problem, you need to take a much closer look at how you do relationships.Not agreeing to a rule change is fine, but not wanting a rule change brought up is not. I've asked to change the rules a million times. Talking about changing the rules shouldn't be a bad thing. But demanding a change or putting a ridiculous time limit/ultimatum on changing the rules is Not Ok.

I guess I also have another question with all this. I know this very well may sound ignorant but I hear so much about love being involved wth all these relationships but I don't remember hearing much about being in love. To me I can see the love in other people and see it in here as well, but what I know about being in love is the feeling of doing anything for that one person. That there is nothing above them. My fiance has always been my "queen." She is what makes me smile. I have put her on a pedestal and never let falter from that. I always want her to be happy. Which I know is contradictory to what I'm saying. Her happiness and needs are paramount but I may not give her what she wants due even though I want her to be happy,.
This may be what love is to you, but that doesn't mean that her definition of love or anyone else's will be the same as yours. You may want to look more closely at your definition, or at least talk with her about your definition versus hers. Frankly, this sounds more like adoration than love to me, but I'm not the one you're in love with so my opinion doesn't count for that much except something to think about.

Thank you for the answer on what I can get out of this. My thought though is this. I kind of look at this as a hunter/gather approach which I can imagine sounds totall shallow. I expend my resources to help her and she does the same for me. With a third though I'm expending the same amount of resources but only getting half from her. For example, with two small kids we are constantly cleaning up or doing stuff around our place or trying to plan for them. There is usually little free time for anything else. The time she spends now with him already and has been means that she is doing less to take care of our family's needs and the burden falls back on me. My kids are with us about 75% of the week and the other 25% with my ex. On my days off they are my whole day from 7:30am till 8:30pm. Once they go to bed I spend the time cleaning and doing laundry and plannning for the next day or even doing work for my job on my laptop. There is little time for me to myself and little time for each other. When she is spending time with him she will blow off chores that we have agreed to she would take care of and it will fall back on me. So how am I supposed to say yes to something that will add more stress to already stressfull household?
Her already not keeping up her half of the duties and wanting even more time away from home is a legitimate problem. Yes, love is great but being an adult means taking care of your duties and being responsible too. Time management is definitely a hard thing with any relationship + kids, and poly just compounds the problem. It sounds like her wanting to explore with this other guy is bringing problems the two of you already had into the spotlight. The relationship between the two of you needs to be as solid as possible, with everyone being mature and respectful, BEFORE exploring poly.

Being in two committed relationships. What happens when your the hinge? and one of the other partners now wants to take on a partner of their own? or if both of the partners want that? Do you ever just say enough we stop at this many and no more?
You can try. If everyone is open to it, then it's possible. But relationship "chains" definitely happen, too. Planning a party with poly people can get complicated, with the guest list getting out of control very quickly! But those are problems for WAY down the road. Something to keep in the back of your mind, sure, but not something I see as being pertinent to the decision you're working on right now.
 

Phy

Member
The time thing is part of many discussions on here and with the poly-couples as well. Even if feelings are relatively infinite, there is only a certain amount for time every person has on his hands. As one can best speak from the own point of view, I would say that every new person entering our dynamic would have to be as involved as Lin (my boyfriend). Meaning 100%, all in. It has proven to be the way we 'do' relationships. Because of his doubts concerning my time and availability Sward (my husband) didn't wanted two separated households and me switching between them. Our living situation is ideal for all of us, because the most of our time is spend with each other that way. We are only separated during every other night, as I stay with the respective other on those.

In regard to new persons entering our life, I am quite sure that there is a limit. If those relationships would have been outside of our nuclear family structure even sooner reached than later. At least theoretically I could imagine two other partners living with us, but that would be a rare find, as the parameters of them living with us would be a nearly similar close relationship between all of us as it already established itself with only the three of us right now. But never say never ….

Concerning your current situation: I would ask to rearrange things if you finally decide to be part of the poly journey and even if you don't you should look out for those everyday life traps you already discovered. Meaning: only doing boring things like chores with each other, communicating mainly about children and family stuff without spending some couple time to keep the romance between you and her alive. Those things she does with this guy should be done with you as well. Going out, spending some time together without the rest of the family and really important: you need to have some alone time as well on your own. That's important. If you start talking about it, you should make the time management (the current as well as the a possible future one) top priority.
 

NovemberRain

New member
I guess I also have another question with all this. I know this very well may sound ignorant but I hear so much about love being involved wth all these relationships but I don't remember hearing much about being in love. To me I can see the love in other people and see it in here as well, but what I know about being in love is the feeling of doing anything for that one person. That there is nothing above them. My fiance has always been my "queen." She is what makes me smile. I have put her on a pedestal and never let falter from that. I always want her to be happy. Which I know is contradictory to what I'm saying. Her happiness and needs are paramount but I may not give her what she wants due even though I want her to be happy,.

So she's your Queen, are you her King? It's not necessary for someone to reciprocate in order to feel love for them; but for ME, it's necessary to live with them.

It might be helpful to you to take the Love Languages quiz. It brought me a lot of insight about how I feel loved (and why the people I love make me feel loved).



I don't even have kids, but my bf would not hold up half the household chores and I wasn't willing to be a bitch or a nag, so he moved out. We couldn't be happier. :D
 

NovemberRain

New member
Concerning your current situation: I would ask to rearrange things if you finally decide to be part of the poly journey and even if you don't you should look out for those everyday life traps you already discovered. Meaning: only doing boring things like chores with each other, communicating mainly about children and family stuff without spending some couple time to keep the romance between you and her alive. Those things she does with this guy should be done with you as well. Going out, spending some time together without the rest of the family and really important: you need to have some alone time as well on your own. That's important. If you start talking about it, you should make the time management (the current as well as the a possible future one) top priority.

That's a possible benefit to you, ya know. If you did get be friends with him, and trust him; you'd have someone to stay home with kids so you could take her out on a fun date.
 

matellas

New member
I don't know how to answer each and every reply here and unfortunately I think time is a little short for me today, so let me just update as to where it stands. I spoke to her after everybody's gracious comments and advice and told her that I really didn't think I would be able to do this. I would definetly go down the road and look at all the options but I'm really not sure if this is for me. I know with saying that it sounds like I had already made up my mind and that's what she said to. Then I realized it wasn't that I was against this with her it was that I was against it with him. It's that with someone who she has been sharing an open honest relationship was him and not me. I confirmed that last night when the three of us were at the bar and I ended up looking through her text messages from him. She had been promising me that he was unaware of her feelings and that nothing had nor would take place until her and I could take the time to research together and talk and build a stronger communication/relationship between us. In her texts there were messages about how much he wanted to hold her again and touch etc.
I left the bar after confronting her and him about it and went home. She showed up some time later to pack some of her clothes and go stay with him. I asked her about why she hadn't been honest about what was in her texts before and she told me that she didn't think I could handle it. She was right, to a point. I couldn't handle the thought of knowing what's going on feelling like it was behind my back but I could handle the brutal honesty and at least feel like we could have a chance to be on the same page together.
I'm not sure were we stand at this point. I told her last night that for sure that I can't make this work between the two of us and him in a poly relationship. It may be immature but I just feel too hurt and betrayed by someone who I thought was telling me everything.

Through everything I have learned and researched in the past few days I truly have a greater appreciation for what poly is about and how it works. I can't say I completely "see the light" but I feel more enlightened than I did.
All of you have been so wonderful to me in helping me better understand what this is all about. If it's ok I would like to try respoond to everyone's previous comments when there is time over the next day or two. Life is a little hectic right now and I'm just slowly trying to catch up from everything that's happening :)
 

Phy

Member
Just a short note: Your reaction is in no way immature, don't worry about that. The most important thing in poly next to love is honesty. This will never work if she is not able to be honest and show concern and integrity towards all. I hope you will be well and handle the upcoming stressful days as collected as possible. I am sorry that things went like that.
 

matellas

New member
With the deadline of two weeks, she didn't really give you a chance to examine your own feelings, didn't give you a chance to read (and actually comprehend) any literature you find about polyamory, and she didn't give you a chance to talk with her and go over questions and concerns. She set it up so that anything that happens would be your choice. If things work out, then yay! If things don't work out, well, then it's your choice and your fault. She can blame you and absolve herself of guilt. And she may not even realize she's doing this, the whole process may be subconscious.

I have been doing what research I can and reading and going over what I have learned from these posts as well. This was something we were supposed to be doing together between the two of us. We even had a meeting set for Tuesday and Wednesday night of this week to sit and talk about what we learned. At the meeting I realized that I had done all the research and she had done none. Her info from what I can tell is solely based upon what she is getting from him. Not that it's all bad just a little biased to say the least. This was her idea to begin with and I would have hoped to see her take it a little more seriously than she has. As for her absolving herself of guilt well that's the way it usually goes. She is one of the most stubborn people I have ever met. I absolutley love her but she will hold fast to being right and has a very diffucult time admitting when she is wrong.
 
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