Dazed and Confused

BelleRose

New member
Many months ago I made a friend who is part of the poly community. This opened up a whole world of possibilities for me because I'd only heard about it in the abstract - here were examples of people really making it work!

He himself was in an open relationship, and after several months we developed feelings. With the consent of his partner, we began dating. We fell in love. With the consent of his partner, we recently made our relationship official. I should also mention, for clarity, that I am not and have no interest in dating her, and she has no interest in dating me.

The thing is, and this wasn't apparent to me until things were already well underway - she's a monogamous person.

She often behaves in the following way: Agrees to something, lets it happen for a period of time (or sometimes doesn't expect it to happen because her agreement was only meant to inspire guilt and create the opposite result,) then does passive aggressive things to undermine the agreement and when called out, flies into a rage or hysterics insisting that something has been done to her; a boundary has been crossed against her will, the only way to make things right now is to go back to how things were before, or to set limits or new rules which she expects to create unilaterally.

The more serious my partner and I get, the more vicious her attempts to undermine our relationship. I have found her to be incredibly manipulative. Contacting me on her own terms, then insisting that I never contact her again once she has exhausted herself by hurling her emotions at me. Sending me gifts and cards for my birthday via my lover, thereby undermining our agreement not to make contact for the sake of her boundaries, even though this violates my boundaries. Setting rigid and unreasonable curfews and sexual limits retroactively to attempt to regress the relationship.

I am realizing, and so is my partner, that she never accepted polyamory but intended to make my partner monogamous, if not through upfront agreement then through rules and veto power. She insists it comes from a place of fear and insecurity but some of the things she's said and done have been too manipulative and deliberately hurtful to be excused.

I don't know what to do, or that it's my place to do anything. At this point if I'd known about the truth of their relationship I would have waited for them to find common ground, or admit that they don't share common relationship goals and split, before getting involved.

Alas, here we are. He loves me and he loves her and is just as confused about how to proceed as I am.

I also should mention that they were not a monogamous pair that opened up. He was poly before they met and was clear that if he met someone he was interested in, the current situation was a possibility. It seems she just hoped it wouldn't happen.

Additionally, I am not okay with being someone's secondary in a hierarchal poly relationship. My lover, now partner, knows this, and has told me he doesn't want that either. That he doesn't consider his first relationship primary and ours secondary. His girlfriend, however, would obviously prefer that her relationship with him take precedence over mine, and when being upfront about that hasn't worked has now resorted to other means to get what she wants.

In addition to feeling regularly hurt by all this I am also getting to the point where my patience is wearing thin because from my perspective, I see a person who knowingly committed herself to a relationship that is not consistent with her beliefs, which she always states vehemently to defend her rigid rules and expectations, and expects it to be everyone else's problem. It's like going to a vegan restaurant and getting self righteous about steak being specially brought in for you.

At this point I am just looking for support to help me through this. I don't feel comfortable voicing every thought and opinion to my partner because I'm clearly biased and I don't want to affect their path. I just want things to get to an honest place and get resolved, whatever that looks like. At the same time I honestly feel that they are incompatible because they have different relationship goals, and that this is never going to end unless someone walks away here, including me.

And as much as I love him, I'm not okay with putting up with abuse.

In an effort to protect her relationship, she is stepping all over my boundaries and what's worse is she doesn't care because to her, I don't matter. Her's is the only relationship that does.

Help.
 
I would personally back away until he breaks up with her, she's not a good metamour and I wouldn't tolerate being treated that way. She clearly does not want to share her partner with anyone else so I do not see this drama ending
 
I don't know if there is some reason you cannot avoid her but that is what I would advise. Block her on social media, block her on your phone, etc, so that she cannot reach you.

Just as, or maybe more, importantly you can tell your partner to stop involving you in this melodrama. Presumably he is the one not only telling you of every rule change but also of her emotional outbursts and blackmail. He is the one bringing you gifts and such from her when you have agreed to have no contact. I think he should cut that out. He clearly is not going to be able to foster a connection between you and his other partner.

You are not in a relationship with her, he is. Have you ever had a good friend who was friends with some jerk you could not stand? Generally when that happens it may be mystifying and annoying but you can choose not to hang out with your friend when the jerk is around. You certainly would not worry much about what the jerk wanted you to do when they are not with the two of you.

If this has all happened in short period of time and her behavior blindsided him, your partner may be reacting without enough thought, simply trying to get time to figure this out. If, however this has been going on for months you might want to think what it means about his way of doing relationships.

You might also think about sticking to your boundaries. Your boundaries are your territory, meaning "beyond this I will not go". They do not dictate what other people will do but what you will do. You can say "I do not want to hear about her tantrums any more. If that is what you want to talk about you need to talk to someone else rather than me" " " I will not have someone who cares nothing for me unilaterally setting rules for my behavior. If that is what I have to do to be with you then I am afraid I cannot be in a relationship with you". And so on. Then he will know where he stands with you and just has to figure out what to do about his other relationship. If he cannot meet your needs because of the other relationship you can opt out of the relationship with him.

I certainly can sympathize with every one of the three of you. No one seems to be in the relationship they thought they were.

Leetah
 
Reply...

I certainly can sympathize with every one of the three of you. No one seems to be in the relationship they thought they were.

Leetah

I think you hit the nail on the head. In a lot of respects.

Luckily I'm not on social media but I did block her number recently when she started rapid fire really awful things about him and us while we were at dinner. I figured it was only a matter of time before my phone pinged.

I can definitely ask that he stop mentioning the kind of things he has to me. That might be a little more challenging. Not because I don't think he'll respect the boundary but because sometimes he just...talks. And I honestly don't think he realizes the possible ramifications until they are already underway. To him I think it's just telling me about his day or telling me about what's stressing him out and it doesn't occur to him until the moment has passed that he's been venting to me about how much someone doesn't like me in his life for half an hour or telling me all the horrible things someone has been saying about me.

But you're right. I have been ignoring my boundaries in an attempt not to hurt anyone. But it's not okay for me to be hurt either.

Thank you for being so helpful.
 
There's also the possibility that she is acting out, if he has been subjecting her to crazy-making behavior.

This did not occur to me until you mentioned that he ignores your boundaries -- & you make excuses for this behavior -- in order to get you on his side. That would likely be a form of triangulation or splitting.

Not that I'm saying he's a manipulative nutball... but he DOES need to correct a bunch of behaviors. Some thoughts from another site (edited for brevity & basic grammar)):
There are as many different reasons why a narcissist might use triangulation as there are narcissists, but here are four common methods and motives.

1. KILLING TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE -- To obtain control, attention or adulation, narcissists will often inform their partner about how a third party, such as a mutual friend or co-worker, who has been flirtatious with them.

First, it stirs up feelings of jealousy and insecurity in their partner and subtly warns the partner that they’re replaceable. Instinctively the partner tries harder to please the narcissist as to not be replaced. Second, it creates a illusion of desirability and encourages rivalry, both of which fill the narcissist with [increased feelings of] adulation and of control.

Emotionally healthy people do not invoke feelings of jealousy and insecurity in their partners or into their relationships.

2. RECRUITING REINFORCEMENTS -- Narcissists manipulate their partners to side with their point of view or acquiesce to their wants and needs by using third-party reinforcements to substantiate their opinions.

The narcissist tries to manipulate anyone who may hold a different opinion or belief by using the help of a usually innocent third party, who has only heard the narcissist’s telling.

The third party is usually oblivious to the narcissist’s ploy, and believes she's only trying to help. She is a coercive tool, an accomplice in such tactics as embarrassment, majority-rules domination, or guilt.

In emotionally healthy relationships, couples do not recruit third parties or use messengers to settle their differences. They have face-to-face discussions. They don’t strong-arm the other by using a third person as influence. They respect each other and their relationship and, if they cannot come to an agreement, they will seek a qualified, unbiased third party, such as a therapist, minister or counselor.

3. SPLITTING -- This method pits two people directly against each other. The narcissist maligns the character of one or both of the people behind their backs. This enables him to preserve his image and ensure he remains in a positive light. In many instances, the narcissist will portray himself as the victim, especially if he feels his partner is growing tired of or aware of the manipulation, hypocrisy and abuse.

The narcissist will seek or create supporters that he knows will always agree with him, then set up his partner to look like the abuser in the relationship. For this to work, the narcissist must keep the supporter(s) and partner from sharing information, so the narcissist will usually share mean comments each has said about the other. The narcissist thus controls the information shared between the parties. Since everyone is communicating through the narcissist and not actually with each other, the narcissist can further his agenda by his addding his spin to the information he relays between the parties.

Most people hate to be put in the middle of arguments. The narcissist thrives on it. And while emotionally healthy individuals don’t enjoy hurting others by sharing mean-spirited comments of others, the narcissist takes much pleasure in it. For example, the narcissist will mention to his partner that a family member made a very cruel comment about her, and then pretend to be supportive of her anger and appear to defend her. Not only does the narcissist get to delight in the hurt expression on his partner’s face, but gets to swoop in heroically.

4. THE PRE-DISCARD & DUMP -- Used by the narcissist when he has decided to end the relationship. Instead of talking to his partner about this, he seeks out those who will readily accept his rendition of the truth -- perhaps people who hardly even know his partner, if at all. The narcissist will make sure to let his partner know that he has has been confiding in other people and that every single one agrees with him. Most likely, one of the narcissist’s confidantes will assume the role of the replacement partner.

After the break-up, the narcissist will openly brag about how happy he is with his new partner. And if his ex-partner acts jealous or tries to beg him back, the narcissist will enjoy the new bonus: a love-triangle of his own creation.

Again, emotionally healthy people don’t talk about something as important as ending a relationship without discussing it with their partner first.
 
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It sounds to me like the problem is not her behaviour, or her demands to control your relationship, but your shared partner. At the end of the day, you make your relationship agreements with him. If he is unwilling to respect them, whether that's under pressure from her or not, the buck stops there. It's difficult being the hinge person. Even more so if your partner(s?) are not fully on board with poly or are over or under assertive of their needs. I think you could be clearer with him, and in your own mind, that the boundaries you have are agreements with yourself (e.g. I won't be in a relationship where I feel disrespected. I won't jeopardise my sexual health by having unprotected sex.) and the agreements you have are with him and you only (e.g. We want to be able to fully focus on each other when we're together, so we'll both switch our phones off. We want to see each other X times a week, and we'll make plans for that in advance.) - you should be able to trust him to take care of his own relationship with her. It shouldn't require you not voicing your needs and wants or taking the back seat in an effort to facilitate their relationship. By all means, have compassion for your metamour as she is clearly struggling (and I wouldn't be too hasty to judge her behaviour as manipulative and NOT a result of insecurity - until you've been there yourself, you have no idea how powerful and controlling fear and insecurity can be) but at the same time, be firm about what you yourself need and expect from him.

It might well be the case that he and she are ill-suited. It might also be that he will never have the skills required to be a good hinge-person. It could equally be the case that you decide that the dynamic is already too unhealthy for you and it would be best to step away until things look brighter. Unfortunately, it can take years for some people (I include myself in this bracket!) to fully become happy in a poly dynamic. If this is the road your metamour is on, it could be a bumpy ride for quite some time. Understanding poly in the abstract, loving a poly partner, and actually living a polyamorous life are sadly three different things. Her intentions to accept and embrace his poly tendencies might be earnest, but the execution is harder. His intentions to be a supportive partner to two very different women might be earnest, but his ability to actually do so could be lacking. The best thing I think you can do is to a) keep assuming good intentions from everyone, but b) make sure you know what you need and ask for it without fear. Don't be the martyr, it just makes things worse for everyone.
 
Your bf is the core of your problem. He is a sloppy hinge. That needs to stop.
 
Thanks tenK, that was a good post. I don't know how much it applies to OP's situation, but it certainly applies to mine, to the letter, as our situation is very much the same.

While Idealist is all about being non-hierarchical with his partners, Meta is monogamous. Poly friendly, but the 'spend time with whomever you want to as long as you come home every night night, thank you very much' kind. So they are not on the same page. I respect her and I am sure she respects me in her own way, since she's put up with way more then originally intended - we've just had a weeks vacation now. But there's a misalignment of need and wants and I've sure found her manipulative at times. Heck, I've found myself passive aggressive at times (or maybe more often then not). I'm trying to avoid her outside of social events, since the whole situation and some of her personality traits are getting on my nerves, but that's not at all in alignment with Idealist's wants, so I do visit sometimes. It's hard, but sometimes/often it's useful, since I get opportunities to really see what's going on.

It's been a struggle and a conflict and compromising is hard on all parties I believe.
 
There are a couple blogs you should read here.

One is Reverie's - the stuff from the beginning: The Best Life Yet

And the other is LizziE's: LizziE Learning as She Goes

And yes, your boyfriend needs to be a better hinge and not pass on the communications from your metamour that she asks him to. Also, he shouldn't be allowing her to dictate what you and he do in the bedroom. You manage your relationship with him, and she manages hers, NOT yours. He has to do a better job of managing both his relationships. He is not powerless. She is not in control of anyone but herself! She does sound fearful and may or may not be a total wackadoo, but he is not respecting your boundaries. He is allowing this shit to go on, so your issue is really with him. Maybe you could show him this thread.
 
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Hi BelleRose,

Sad to say I am inclined to advise you to break up with this fellow: both due to how his partner is acting, and due to how he is enabling it. If you don't break up with him, at least draw a hard line between you and your metamour and if he carelessly starts telling you about her, walk away from him and stay away for awhile, only returning when you have his word that he won't do that anymore. If she sets a rule and he agrees to it, that is the same thing as if he was setting the rule himself. Such is life in the poly world. If he can't stand it, he shouldn't be poly.

I hope things get better for you. I hope your metamour starts acting better, even if I doubt that will happen.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank You

Thank you all for the great advice!

I spoke to my partner.

It actually went and has been going really, really well.

It is true that he has some learning and growing to do. This is his first time being a hinge. But I'm so glad he was open to my...ahem...constructive criticism and accepting of my boundaries.

This has also taught me a lot about myself in a very short time. Overcompensating, martyring, making excuses for others. I read that poly doesn't necessarily have more challenges than mono but that whatever your issues are, the light will shine on them brighter. Truth!

I'm really thankful to all of you for your input and your support.
 
I spoke to my partner.

It actually went and has been going really, really well.

It is true that he has some learning and growing to do. This is his first time being a hinge. But I'm so glad he was open to my...ahem...constructive criticism and accepting of my boundaries.
Glad to read that things have improved, BelleRose!

Would you mind sharing a little bit more about your conversation with the bf? I am curious about what you expressed to him, how he took it, and what changes he's agreed to make. You don't have to give very detailed info, but I think it would be useful to others to give us a summary of how you worked it out with him and what is going "really, really well." Thanks!
 
Glad to read that things have improved, BelleRose!

Would you mind sharing a little bit more about your conversation with the bf? I am curious about what you expressed to him, how he took it, and what changes he's agreed to make. You don't have to give very detailed info, but I think it would be useful to others to give us a summary of how you worked it out with him and what is going "really, really well." Thanks!

Oh, absolutely!

First, I purposely did it over text because he can be defensive and/or jump to apologizing and fixing. So I wanted to make sure I was being heard without getting sidetracked.

I told him that I didn't feel comfortable hearing about his other relationship anymore. I wanted to be clear that if he had other relationships in the future I would love for us to be able to talk about them, and I wanted to continue to be able for us to talk about mine. It was just in this specific instance, as him telling me about his relationship with his other partner has a lot of me in it. And that isn't fair. I'm not unbiased so I'm not a good source for support or advice, plus I'm being hurt by the information. I told him I appreciate that he might need support but he needs to look for another source, as I did.

I also restated one of my original boundaries, which was that I'm not comfortable with participating in a hierarchy or being a secondary. (He immediately jumped in and promised I wasn't his secondary before I reminded him that we were texting to avoid such interruptions.) Having restated that I told him that I ignored that boundary by adhering to a lot of his other partner's rules, regulations, etc. because I was trying to empathize and I also believed they would be temporary. But as the picture has changed I told him I'm no longer willing to do that. So my new boundary was: I will not have the terms of my relationship dictated by someone outside of it. Period.

At first he was a bit defensive despite my attempts to minimize this. He apologized for having ever asked me to put up with limits being set on our behaviors with each other, time we could spend, etc. He promised it wouldn't happen again and he would be more mindful of my boundaries going forward. He then began to express a lot of his boundaries, which frustrated me because they weren't really boundaries, more conditions. As we discussed here, boundaries are about yourself, your personal limits. One example of a boundary he brought up (which we'd never discussed until I asserted mine) was that he knows he's going to make mistakes, and we'll talk about it. But if in the future he makes a similar mistake, he doesn't want that to be brought up in a later conversation.

At first I was pretty tense and told him that I was not going to agree not to act in a way that seems perfectly natural to me. If you've always had issues taking out the trash, and now the trash is out but you've stopped doing the dishes, of course I'll relate the two!

But ultimately it led to a bigger discussion in which I told him that I often talk to him looking for support, or empathy, or just someone to listen, and he tends to hijack the conversation and make it about him. Which makes me feel dismissed or just not heard, and here was an example of it now. Somehow my restating my boundaries to alleviate an ongoing stressor on our relationship had turned into a debate about all of his terms and conditions.

At that point the conversation actually began productive. Especially where at one point he caught himself launching into a long winded explanation of a behavior and then stopped when he realized he was derailing things.

The talk itself was tense at first, and I got pretty upset at one point, but when it finally resolved I felt closer to him than ever and much more confident regarding the potential our relationship has since were able to grow from that conflict.

::happy sigh::
 
Sounds like a bit of a bumpy road that ultimately brought you to a good place. Well done! And it must be reassuring to know that he is willing to listen and make an effort to really hear you, as well as look at his behaviors and defensiveness, accept responsibility for his errors in judgment, and make amends.
 
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