Electrons Introduction

GalaGirl

Well-known member
In a most recent conversation with her, I asked if he overheard us having sex the last time I was there. She said, he hadn't mentioned it but would ask if he did. She added that if he did overhear us, she would ask how he felt about it. . . Was it bad . . or did he enjoy it? I thought to myself . . enjoy it? Seriously?
I'm going to guess. I might guess wrong.

I wonder if you were concerned about being too loud and needed some reassurance from her that things were ok/quiet enough/not embarrassing/you are welcome in her home or whatever it was.

But you didn't articulate the need. Like why you care/worry if he overheard. You just asked if he heard.

And she was willing to go find out. From years of habit her focus was on her DH's feelings/needs rather than yours. Instead of asking clarifying questions to find out your need like... "Well, I could ask him if he overheard. Not really clear on why you need that though. Are you feeling ok about it? Did you need reassuring it was quiet enough or ok to be loud or ok that you are here in my home?"

And then you took it personally maybe? Because you are scanning for evidence to support the "He's her Mr Right. I'm Mr Right Now. I'll never matter to her like him" belief?

Rather asking her to please focus on your needs and explaining what your need is in this moment?

So then maybe it bothered you?

Is that true?

The conversation ended, but I that line stuck with me.

How come?

It is possible he feels compersion and that is it. Like... glad his wife is happy with her other partner. But no kinks around it.

Yesterday, I was explaining this situation (his seeing us together from the outset, his encouraging her for months, her wondering if he enjoyed overhearing us) to someone and they suggested that he is hotwifing. I looked it up and read about what it is and it's 100% aligned with my observations.

Maybe yes, maybe not.

All that in bold could also be him trying to be supportive and her being a newbie hinge and starting to date outside their marriage.

Don't jump to hotwifing conclusions before you actually confirm anything with him directly. Talk him directly or to both of them about it. Don't use your hinge like a go-between. That can lead to miscommunications.

And if you don't want to be overheard, don't share sex at her place when he's around. Or limit it to your place or "neutral" spaces like hotels. You DO have control over your life, you know.

Should I ask her to confirm if this is what's going on? And if so . . . is she is aware of the kink? if he is aware? have they've discussed it? when did they know? and why I'm "figuring it out" and not already been told? If anything, the most dealbreakering is if it was known, but not disclosed from the beginning. . . I'm feeling a bit "used".

Understandable to feel upset/used if you did not give consent to participate in anything like that and they are doing some sort of secret, unethical hotwife scene using you like a toy/spying or whatever.

But you know what? Roomies who are not dating or married have to deal with overhearing each other's sex noises when they have guests over. Like just regular life.

So... don't leap to conclusions just yet.

If he's straining to hear from another room, that's one thing . . but my mind goes to hidden baby monitor, perhaps video, perhaps he's outside their bedroom window peeking in? Now I've got all this in my mind to deal with too.

So... why does your mind do that? Are you good at calming your own self or do you let your feelings runaway all over the place?

You didn't meet them last night. You've been in this V with them a bit over a year. Do you not trust yourself to be a good judge of character? Does anything about his character suggest he's gonna be creeper like that? Does he treat his wife poorly? Like it would be ok to violate her privacy this way? Does he treat you poorly? Like he would violate your privacy this way?

Don't make it bigger than it is chasing anxiety thoughts like "what if this and that" and upsetting yourself further.

But do have a talk to clear some of these concerns up.

Most of what I read strikes me as ok enough for the age of the group, people are newbies but trying.

You struggling with whether or not she can give you enough of a poly GF relationship to still make this worthwhile or not. Because the NRE thing is fading and a comet FWB is not what you ultimately want.

So you either have to end it and move on and return to monogamy, end it and move on to date poly people who can give you more time/loving touch/a firmer place in their real life, or accept that's all she can give. A secondary FWB comet thing. So you keep seeing her, but in that context and don't try to remake her over into "poly GF." You seek someone else for that.

And all that is compounded by you being an anxious sort of person who worries a lot. And is looking to a newbie hinge to be the "leader" and provide stability rather than creating your own stability.

If you change your mind about letting this ride and end it? The whole hotwife worry becomes moot.

So yeah, it's a concern, but maybe you could try to deal with your concerns in order?

You decided to let this ride for now. (That was my impression.)

Ok. For how long? Give it another 3, 6, 12 mos? And in that time what do you need to be happier?

To talk to her about coming out, meeting friends and family, be more included in her life rather than "on the shelf." More time together so loving touch can happen (your main love language.) Setting some personal boundaries. You get she's a newbie too, but you don't want to hear so much about DH. You aren't dating him. You are dating her.

And for all that to happen? YOUR skill bucket to grow might involve becoming more assertive, taking up some space, and not rocking your own boat or chasing anxiety "what if this and that" thoughts.

Or if you are gonna do that, ANSWER yourself. Like...

What if I get caught in the rain? Well, that stinks, but I don't melt. I'll find a towel. And next time bring umbrella/check weather.

What if I run out of gas? Well, I have some gas right now, so I'll drive the gas station to fill up and then I don't have to worry later.

What if this is all there is? I can't have more than a comet FWB with her? I can make decisions.
  • I can leave it how it is... and not date anyone else
  • I can leave it how it is... enjoy it for what it is, and also start to date new people who can better meet my GF needs better
  • I can end it.
You are not helpless.

Galagirl
 
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Electrons

New member
It could just be compersion, as in, "Oh, I love my wife and like knowing she is having fun with someone who appreciates her and treats her well."

Well, that is a bit of catastrophizing. You may just be getting paranoid.
My understanding is compersion is about enjoying seeing your wife in love and being loved in a polyAMOROUS way. Hotwifing is enjoying knowing, hearing , seeing (cuckhold) the wife having sex and physical stuff.

Since he was encouraged her to dance, kiss, touch and explore way before anyone said Poly or Love. ... also, I was told (by one of her friends) of a previous time when they were all liquored up at a bar, she was flirting and making out with a stranger, and he there watching and enjoying it. The friend did not understand how he could permit that, but then once she and I started dating, she figured, well, that just his kink... a bit more evidence.

Might be conclusion jumping, or catastrophiczing, or paranoia. OMG i will be so disappointed if there's hidden audio or video. Yes, it would very much over at that point.
 

Electrons

New member
TBT, I'm a fun guy with not a lot of hang ups. If he or they said it is his kink.. I'd voluntarily be louder, scream her name, etc. I have a touch of exhibitionist in me, so WTF.

I don't think I really care about what he is thinking about or masturbating , while she and I are going at it

Just want honesty and disclosure. I don't want sneaky and paranoia in my brain

Let's have fun!
 

Electrons

New member
Over the weekend, we are at a party, all three of us, and she's near me, holding my hand, rubbing my shoulders, kissing, dancing, and he's off in the distance watching and smiling. At times, I did feel a little bit like a prop being used on their play. At other times, I yuck it up and make the kiss a longer and more passionate and noisy for all to see. At one point, he and I were alone and he says to me, "Thank you. You are helping in so many ways. You don't even know the ways." I didn't get a chance to ask for him to elaborate, but will see him tonight and plan to follow up, since he broke the ice.

Some time later, the hinge and I leave the party to go back to their place and get at it. He comes home super late, like 2 or 3 am, and sleeps in the spare room. I leave in the morning before he emerges from the room. . . and she plans to "check on him". Wink Wink.

What's interesting to me is . . . She and I have never talked about the kink.. She keeps talking about being Poly and how he's feeling Compersion. . . but it obvious that he's getting off on this scene, not just compersion. I know she knows there's an uptick in their sex life, and she's enjoying that, because she said so. I have to imagine that she's aware of this as his kink, but I don't know if she knows of it as having a known name of "hotfwifing". . . that's never come up. Maybe I've been deluded all along and she's got an anklet somewhere and she knows full on what's up and just doesn't talk about it with me and would rather sell the experience as her being Poly.

Is "being Poly" somehow more acceptable than "being a hotwife"?

Can one be both Poly and a Hotwife at the same time . .. or is it more that he is Hotwifing and she is Polyamorous?
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
Can one be both Poly and a Hotwife at the same time

Yes. Someone could be both polyamorous and have a hotwife kink.

. .. or is it more that he is Hotwifing and she is Polyamorous?

I don't think guessing is as productive as asking each one of them directly.

Since you plan to talk to him directly about it tonight? I suggest getting your thoughts in order and asking all the questions you want to ask.

Galagirl
 

Electrons

New member
Yes. Someone could be both polyamorous and have a hotwife kink.
Is it possible to have the hotwife kink, and not know that it is called the "hotwife kink" ?

I don't think guessing is as productive as asking each one of them directly.

Since you plan to talk to him directly about it tonight? I suggest getting your thoughts in order and asking all the questions you want to ask.

Galagirl
I asked him to elaborate on his comment that "I was helping". He basically said that "she really likes you and you make her really happy, so that makes me happy". I dug deeper and asked, "happy, as in a kinky, fantasy, erotic way . . I don't understand." He said, happy like when you see your friend being happy and that makes you happy. . . and stuck with the company line of Poly and Compersion, and He never used the term "hotwife" or even came close to it. I didn't feel like it was my place to say, "you know, there's a name for that?"

Scenario A) He (they) know it's called Hotwifing, Bull, Stag, Vixen . . they know full well what's going on, it's just that they are not up to using those labels to describe their situation (at least not using those terms with me} [TBT, hotwife, bull, . . these are not the most flattering terms, esp for newbies, so I can see how one might shy away from those labels] . . . and not disclosing the depths of their kink with me (which is fine since it's not my biz anyway)

Scenario B) He (they) have stumbled into a hotwife situation, legit they don't know what it's called, have it in addition to being Poly, and are enjoying the benefits of it. . . and I'm the one who has figured it out, but it's not my place to play teacher for them.

Scenario C) They are simply Poly newbies, and I've conflated hotwifing into something more than it is.

Anyone want to place their bets on a scenario ?

I'm leaning toward A, maybe B, but either way. . . It's either none of my business, or it's not my place. . . so my sleuthing days are done. I guess I'm not going to get Vetoed. . that was my OP concern. Along the way, I suffered "feeling shelved" between IRL dates, because that's what was actually going on - she's compartmentalizing. When put in that context . . I am #2, not #1 and I will remain on the shelf until our next planned date, and that's the way of it . . . It's a "know your role and stay in your lane" situation.. . . I am coming to terms with why there isn't more and won't be more for me.

I'm watching, observing, participating, loving, learning, and going with the flow. What an amazing journey this has been. Thursday is our next date night . . I'll report back if there's any new developments.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
And now you're back to the "stuck on a shelf" descriptor! Despite having regular dates and talking on the phone in between.

Is it possible you WANT to be a bull, you WANT to be used as a sex toy, despite both people in this couple seeming to be ordinary run-of-the-mill hierarchical polyamorists?

It's OK if you do want to be a bull to a hotwife and a cuck. There are places you can go to learn how to do that, and bars you can go to where you can get into that... I'd recommend going to Fetlife.com and searching the term hotwifing, cuckold, and enjoy yourself.
 

Electrons

New member
And now you're back to the "stuck on a shelf" descriptor! Despite having regular dates and talking on the phone in between.
Well . . it is what it is. And my feelings are just those . . based on my perception of my reality. But I have come to terms that it can't/ won't be anything more than super close times when we are together, and feeling distanced when we are apart. Would "feeling distanced" be better for YOU as a desciptor than "shelved"? LOL.

Is it possible you WANT to be a bull, you WANT to be used as a sex toy, despite both people in this couple seeming to be ordinary run-of-the-mill hierarchical polyamorists?

It's OK if you do want to be a bull to a hotwife and a cuck. There are places you can go to learn how to do that, and bars you can go to where you can get into that... I'd recommend going to Fetlife.com and searching the term hotwifing, cuckold, and enjoy yourself.
Hey hey . this is a brand new world for me. I am within a week of discovery of this entire concept and am trying to get enough info (both from experience as well as forum talk) to be able to make that kind of decision. I will check out fetlife.com. thank.

It was both unexpectedly stimulating to be playing it up in front of him , but at the same time, kinda intimidating to be thinking that I'm "just a prop" in their play and getting insecure by wondering if her feelings for me are genuine or just for their (his) show? I do believe she's got serious feels for me and, for my own sanity, I'm going to go with that angle until shown or told otherwise.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
Well . . it is what it is. And my feelings are just those . . based on my perception of my reality. But I have come to terms that it can't/ won't be anything more than super close times when we are together, and feeling distanced when we are apart. Would "feeling distanced" be better for YOU as a desciptor than "shelved"? LOL.
It's not about me, and to be honest, I don't see the humor. You could be in a mono relationship and only see someone once a week or less. Do you alwaysfeel "shelved" if you can't see a lover every day or so? That's worth looking at, I think. People have lives. It's not like when you're in school and can see your gf every day around campus.
Hey hey-- this is a brand-new world for me. I am within a week of discovery of this entire concept and am trying to get enough info (both from experience and forum talk) to be able to make that kind of decision. I will check out fetlife.com. Thanks.

It was unexpectedly stimulating to be playing it up in front of him. But at the same time, it was kinda intimidating to be thinking that I'm "just a prop" in their play and I was getting insecure, wondering if her feelings for me were genuine or just for their/his show. I do believe she's got serious feels for me and, for my own sanity, I'm going to go with that angle until shown or told otherwise.
Again, at Fetlife, you'll be able to see how this whole cuckolding things works out for people. Scenarios and feelings will be very individual. Of course, sometimes a bull becomes more. It is quite possible for a woman to fall in love with someone who was initially brought in as a stunt cock. Vice versa, a poly newbie may get more excited than they expected about someone new having sex with their partner. And... it's possible you may prefer being a stunt cock and are uncomfortable with thinking a woman could actually love you and love her husband at the same time.

Yes, you are new and trying to navigate not just your own feelings of love and caring, but also how you feel about possibly being overheard and the possibility of being a factor in another couple's sex life, in their fantasy life. If it's all too much, you could just try to stop thinking about their marriage so much. As you said, that's their business. Enjoy your gf and forget about the husband's sexual fantasies. Or, go all in and tell them being their bull gets you off and see what they say. Read about hotwifing first of course (on Fetlife or elsewhere), so you know what you're talking about.
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
Is it possible to have the hotwife kink, and not know that it is called the "hotwife kink" ?

Yes. Just like it is possible to be poly and not know the word yet. Or any other thing.

I asked him to elaborate on his comment that "I was helping". He basically said that "she really likes you and you make her really happy, so that makes me happy". I dug deeper and asked, "happy, as in a kinky, fantasy, erotic way . . I don't understand." He said, happy like when you see your friend being happy and that makes you happy. . . and stuck with the company line of Poly and Compersion, and He never used the term "hotwife" or even came close to it. I didn't feel like it was my place to say, "you know, there's a name for that?"

Why not?

If the goal of the conversation is to gain clarity or greater understanding, I don't understand why you didn't just ask "So is this like a hotwife thing for you? Or only compersion? Something else?" and then listen to the answer.

It IS your business to know what sort of thing you are involved in. It IS your business to assess if your situation suits you or not.

"We are all newbies" only flies for so long. You don't all have to go like stumbling in the dark forever. You can take the time to educate yourselves and read resources online as well as build trust with each other and communicate.

I'm leaning toward A, maybe B, but either way. . . It's either none of my business, or it's not my place. . . so my sleuthing days are done. I guess I'm not going to get Vetoed. . that was my OP concern.

So the veto concern is allayed. And now you want to let it ride and not ask about the other things that concern you.

I am within a week of discovery of this entire concept and am trying to get enough info (both from experience as well as forum talk) to be able to make that kind of decision. I will check out fetlife.com. thank.

But you still want to know/guess?

I think you could become more firm of purpose/clear of mind.

You sound like you get regular dates with her and communication in between. You've been involved for a bit over a year. I suggest you become ok taking up some space in this V. Become more assertive and speak up about the things that concern you rather than being so passive in communication and/or letting your thoughts do the "what if this? what if that?" thing, possibly upsetting yourself.

My other suggestion if you are insecure a lot is to read Polysecure. Maybe that might help you some.

Galagirl
 
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Electrons

New member
Yes. Just like it is possible to be poly and not know the word yet. Or any other thing
Why not?
Why not? Mostly, for just that reason . . What if she doesn't already know. Probably all my own paranoia . . but . . . What if . . . What if .. What if's are good because they help you to analyze and predict potential future outcomes.

What if I ask, "Is this the Hotwife thing I read about on fetlife?"

A) She says, yes, she's known all along, and it's about time I figured it out. They didn't want to bring it up, but have been waiting for me to figure it out organically . . . but now that it's exposed. . Congrats and let's move on from here. Outcome positive . . unless it's more like option B and I wasn't supposed to know the secret.

B) She says yes, she's known all along, but I wasn't supposed to know about their secret. They had talked about it and they wanted to keep it private. Or maybe they (she) was afraid of how I would react (break up with her) . . Maybe she's just embarrassed by the terms hotwife, vixen, bull, etc. and simply felt more secure in her actions when viewed through a lens of Poly and love, not kink and sex and pleasure. . . and now that I have exposed it, she loses all that security she had. Now there's a breakdown in trust and honesty and I feel that I've been deceived by a "lie of omission" because they didn't tell me about their own private kink, which may or may not be any of my business to begin with. I reframe our time together as a "prop in their play" and my Innocence of Ignorance is over. Rough conversation and likely outcome - we break up

C) She says, I don't know, what's that. I explain the kink (maybe read a few quotes from articles) and her "safety net" that it's been about Poly and love and compersion is pulled out from under her . . . . and she reframes the scene to that he's pimping her out and the currency is his kinky fantasy, she's feeling like a used hobby whore not a poly lover, she now realizes the uptick their home sex life was his reclaiming the property that he feels he owns and has loaned out for the night. She is upset at him because he has not communicated his kink. She feels like a slut wife, her innocence of ignorance is over. Rough conversation and likely outcome - we break up . . and could this cause them to break up too.

D) She says, I don't know, what's that. I tell her I can't really explain it, she should go home and talk to hubby about it. She didn't know because it's HIS secret and he didn't want her to figure it out, and now I've gone and exposed it. . . bad. Outcome - unknown... Probably same as C above.
Perhaps he pulls out the Veto card on me at this point.

E) ???

you could just try to stop thinking about their marriage so much. As you said, that's their business. Enjoy your gf and forget about the husband's sexual fantasies.
I'm so torn between a desire to know that reality of the scene, and if and how it will effect me. . . and the fact that their married sex life is none of my business.

I just don't know if it's time to shake the box and see what falls out.

I do just want to Enjoy my GF and kinda wish I didn't have all this in my head. Tomorrow night is our next date night . . with a planned sleep over. I'm both excited and nervous at the same time.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Re (from Electrons):
"Is 'being poly' somehow more acceptable than 'being a hotwife?'"

Well my personal opinion is that polyness and hotwifing (sometimes called cuckolding) are equally as good as each other. My observation is that we get a surprising number of hotwifers (and their wives) on this forum, so I have to think it's a more prevalent thing than perhaps people realize. But as I said, that's my opinion and my observation; others may not feel as I do. Maybe to some people, hotwifing is somehow inferior to poly, or somehow "more shameful." [shrug] You can't please everyone, you just have to do what works for you.

Re:
"Can one be both poly and a hotwife at the same time ... or is it more that he is hotwifing and she is polyamorous?"

That's a slightly trickier question. I think there's a fine line between poly and hotwifing, and sometimes some overlap. The main difference would be that hotwifing tends to mostly be about sex, while polyamory is more about the full spectrum of romantic emotions (and doesn't even have to involve sex). But sometimes I think hotwifing can be somewhat about the more emotional aspects; it can almost be thought of as a subset of poly. It really depends on the individuals involved.

Re (from Post #46):
"Is it possible to have the hotwife kink, and not know that it is called the 'hotwife kink?'"

I'd say it's definitely possible. Heck, I can't count how many members we have here who were polyamorous before they'd even heard of such a thing as "polyamory." It's not like they teach these things in school; one just has to surf the net and run into the terminology by dumb luck.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I'm so torn between a desire to know that reality of the scene, and if and how it will effect me. . . and the fact that their married sex life is none of my business.

I just don't know if it's time to shake the box and see what falls out.

I will suggest option E.

E) It's been a year. And you said "She's giving it all she's got . . . It's has been fine up till now, will be fine for a bit longer, but I'm seeing forward that is not the permanent rel that will bring the maximum satisfaction in my life."
So shake the box already to see if you are wrong. Ask everything you need to ask, and let the chips fall where they may. Find out if this is deeply compatible or not. Or cut your losses sooner rather than later because you already know it's not the long haul runner you seek, and spinning anxiety thoughts is not esp productive or fun.​
You say you are a fun guy without a lot of hang ups. That may be so, but this relationship seems to be pushing on some of your buttons -- that you don't really matter / fear of breaking up / at the mercy of other people / etc.

When breaking up is a reasonable risk of dating. No, it's not FUN. But neither people go on and on with folks who just aren't compatible.

What do you need to feel more secure in yourself? In this relationship?

I suppose my request is simple - if/when it comes time, she tells me it is that she has changed her mind, and not that she has been asked to change her mind by #1 and she has agreed to that request.

Did you ever make that request of her?

Galagirl
 
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Electrons

New member
shake the box already to see if you are wrong. Ask everything you need to ask, and let the chips fall where they may. Find out if this is deeply compatible or not.


Did you ever make that request of her?
Thanks GG, I did make that previous request and the conversation went fine.
 

fuchka

Active member
You asked him if he was aroused by you having sex with her. He said no.

Hotwifing is a thing, sure. I'm not seeing the flags here though. He encouraged her to pursue a relationship with you -- could simply be cos he saw how happy it would make her.

His comment that you were making things better, and thanking you, is a bit odd, but more in the "you're fixing our relationship" way rather than hotwifing per se.

I hope you continue to enjoy your exploration
 

dingedheart

Well-known member
Re (from Electrons):


Well my personal opinion is that polyness and hotwifing (sometimes called cuckolding) are equally as good as each other. My observation is that we get a surprising number of hotwifers (and their wives) on this forum, so I have to think it's a more prevalent thing than perhaps people realize

i wish some of those people would come forward and help sort out /answer the question of disclosure of this seemly relevant fact. If it is indeed a relevant fact in their opinion and how they all handled such situations.

To me this sounds so rookie / novice …fly by the seat of their pants that he/;they never expected it to last as long as it did. The first unintended consequence if you will.
 

Electrons

New member
You asked him if he was aroused by you having sex with her. He said no.

Hotwifing is a thing, sure. I'm not seeing the flags here though. He encouraged her to pursue a relationship with you -- could simply be cos he saw how happy it would make her.

His comment that you were making things better, and thanking you, is a bit odd, but more in the "you're fixing our relationship" way rather than hotwifing per se.

I hope you continue to enjoy your exploration

Ok.. option E) I'm conflating my observations into a Hotwife kink, and I could be wrong. He's just.a nice guy who is happy seeing his wife get so much loving attention and good feelings from me.

TbT, this is what I'm hopeful for.... however, from what I'm told and can see, they have a very solid relationship and it doesn't need any fixing.

Date Night tonight.. I'm excited..
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
I hope (and think) you'll have a great time!
 

Electrons

New member
I hope (and think) you'll have a great time!
It was AMAZING FUN TIME.

I meet her at their place at 5.
She and I eat dinner and leave to go to a concert at 5:40 . . it starts at 6.
Metamour gets home right around 5:40, says Hi as Hinge and I are leaving.
Metamour's other GF arrives for their dinner around 6 and then a romp (spare room)
Hinge and I dancing and romancing at concert ends around 9:15.
His other GF leaves by 9:30.
Hinge and I get the "all clear" text and arrive at home just after 9:30.
Meta is in the spare room for the night . . . She and I go to the master bedroom and get our romp on.
I leave this morning.

This is what they (we) have come up in their month since he's started dating someone else. What do you think? Does this sound like a normal way or rookie mistake filled way of going about it ?
 
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Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Sounds good.
 
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