First big fight with metamor.

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I feel like I'm always coming here with issues, but this one was a pretty big one considering it's the first major fight I've had with my metamor. I just need to make sure that I'm being fair and have a right to be upset in this instance.

Pixie has batted around the prospect of threesomes for a while now. After she brought it up the first two times, I got triggered and had a bad emotional breakdown over the pressure. I let them know it would be more likely for me to handle my guys exploring that outside of me than I would being involved. I just need time. That happened within the past two months.

Over the past few weeks, pixies cousin (I'll call her Blondie) has been hanging around a lot more. Zed finds her quite attractive, which of course I don't have issue with. I don't blame him. She's a sweet and pretty girl. I actually like her a lot.

Apparently Pixie had been playing with the idea of them being play partners for a bit. However, she didn't say anything to me.
I woke up one day to find out that Pixie had talked to Blondie about "sharing" Zed with her. Still, nothing had been said to me.

This spawned what has become our biggest fight. The fact that she spoke to Blondie without even consulting me first. To which I clarified "would this involve threesomes?"
She said that was not totally off the table.

I also found out through Dean that she had inquired how he would feel about a threesome with her and Blondie as well. My concern is:

A) it's her cousin. I don't particularly care for that. If Zed wanted to pursue this on his own as another playmate, this would be different. But having a threesome with two people who are related reeeeallllly bothers me.
Should it? I know the whole twins thing is a kink for some men, but I've had incestuous things pushed on me since I was young. The idea of that makes me extremely uncomfortable.

B) Pixie has spent a lot of time stressing our friendship. How important my comfort level is. But yet I was the last one to know about all of this even considering my reaction before.

And finally
C) I feel as though they are trying to blaze their own trail for my comfort level.
"I thought that was something you wanted to work through."
I'm not closed to growth. I'm just concerned as to why the threesomes are so important. Why does that have to be the next step of my growth? I don't understand that. I feel growth happening in so many different ways right now. Is it wrong that it's just not a priority to me? And both of my fellows have expressed that it's not really priority to them.

I've only been poly right at a year. Dean and I have been together for less than 7 months. Is it wrong of me to ask them to drop it altogether right now? I need more time. I want to enjoy what I have right now. I want to be able to blaze my own trail of growth. Is it wrong for me not to want my men to engage in sexuality under incestuous circumstances?

I confessed to both of them that I don't want to control their actions. But I can't promise that it won't harm our intimacy and closeness if something like that were to happen.

I'm just not sure if I'm being completely fair or not.
 

KC43

New member
Fairness isn't necessarily relevant in this case. You have a strong emotional reaction to what's going on. You have the right to express that reaction. Telling the others involved how you feel is what's fair to *you*, and right now that can be your main priority.

With your history, it isn't at all surprising that you would have the reaction you're having to finding out that Pixie is bringing her cousin in on this. You say she's talked to your guys about having threesomes with her and her cousin. Would this involve Pixie and her cousin playing, or just the guy playing with each of them? There is a difference, at least to me.

Something else to consider... they're cousins, but *what* cousins? First cousins, i.e. they have parents who are siblings? Second cousins, i.e. their parents are first cousins to each other? etc. To some people, that might make a difference; even in the law, in some places it's entirely legal for second cousins to marry, but not first cousins. (Though I believe there are places it's legal for first cousins to marry; I would have to look it up to be sure.)

I think, though, regardless of Pixie and Blondie's relationship to each other or whether they would actually be playing with each other, the bottom line is that regardless of *your* comfort level with that type of interaction--sorry to be harsh, but it isn't up to you. Unless they're asking *you* to participate in the threesome with Pixie and Blondie, while you do have the right to say "That kind of thing makes me uncomfortable", you're not directly involved, so your comfort level has nothing to do with whether it happens or not. It is up to the people who will actually be participating to decide whether they're okay with it.

As far as Pixie not approaching you before talking to Blondie and the guys--is she supposed to? Is there an agreement like "If Pixie has a sexual idea for Dean or Zed, she'll talk to Bunnie before she talks to anyone else?" If not, why would you expect her to talk to you about it--especially *before* talking to the other woman who would actually be involved in the threesome? Again, you aren't involved, so you have the right to express your opinion but your opinion isn't necessarily a factor in what happens.

That would be like me telling Woody "Nope, you can't fuck Highlight from behind, because you didn't ask me about it first and I think that's a disgusting position." I don't have the right to dictate their relationship, I don't have the right to dictate their sex life, and I don't have the right to expect to be consulted about everything they do. ONLY about the things that actually affect me. I *do* have the right to say "I think being fucked from behind is disgusting" (I don't think that, by the way, that was just the first example that came to mind), but not to expect my opinion to affect what Woody does with Highlight. Can you see how it might not be entirely reasonable to expect other people to make choices about *their* interactions based on *your* opinions and reactions?

I also kind of think that your reaction to the threesome issue before might be the reason you weren't spoken to about this sooner than you were...
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
it's legal to marry your first cousin in New Zealand.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Let me repeat back the highlights so I know I got them right, ok? You correct me if I am wrong.

  • You and Zed are a couple.
  • Zed has a GF named Pixie. She is your meta.
  • Pixie has suggested threesomes with (Pixie, You and Zed) a few times in the past.
  • You got triggered, had a breakdown from the pressure to do it. Told them to stop asking you.
  • You said prefer your guys to explore threesomes with other people. Not with you as one of the threesome people.

Two months pass.

  • You now learn Pixie is trying to set up a threesome with (her + Zed + her cousin.)
  • Now you are mad because Pixie did not run this by you. (<---Well, before you said not to involve you. She met that part of it. So why are you mad at her?)
  • It also grosses you out -- if it's a threesome like that, it involves incest. (<--- Fair enough. You are allowed to find X a turn on and Y a turn OFF.)

Thing is... why are you mad at Pixie? Rather than checking in with Zed and making him aware of how you feel about these things? Isn't it him you are supposed to make aware of your preferences and deal breakers? Like...

"Look, if you are going to explore threesomes, it's fine with me so long as I'm not one of the players. You also have to be sure you are not picking people on my messy people list. To me that includes (relatives, because that triggers my incest stuff. If you go there, you can't come back to me."​

This spawned what has become our biggest fight. The fact that she spoke to Blondie without even consulting me first.

Why would you like to be consulted first about a sexual encounter between (Pixie, Blondie and Zed?) I see it as Zed responsibility to bring up to you.

"Hey, I want to run this by you. I am thinking about participating in a threesome with Pixie and her cousin Blondie. If I go there, would you still be willing to participate in sex with me? Or it that a turn off and a deal breaker and you no longer want to be my lover?"​

Then he has full info -- and can pick whether or not he wants to go there.

Why's Zed getting a free pass here and Pixie getting all your ire when she is meeting the boundary you set to not be involving you?

Pixie has spent a lot of time stressing our friendship. How important my comfort level is. But yet I was the last one to know about all of this even considering my reaction before.

But last time YOU set a boundary to not involve you. Now you are finding out that you were not specific enough.

When I set boundaries it's like "Please do not do X. Please do things like Y. If it's a Z and you are not sure with category it falls in, please talk to me first so we can discern where to file it."


I'm just concerned as to why the threesomes are so important. Why does that have to be the next step of my growth? I don't understand that. I feel growth happening in so many different ways right now. Is it wrong that it's just not a priority to me?

Threesomes don't have to be part of your thing.You decide what you want on your plate as priorities.

And both of my fellows have expressed that it's not really priority to them.

So if it isn't a thing for you, and it isn't even a thing for them, why are you getting bent out of shape about Pixie going on about the things SHE likes? Rather than tell your guys your boundaries in a more complete way so they know where you stand?

"Hey, I realized I left things out and wanted to clarify.

  • I don't want to be in any threesomes.
  • If you guys decide you want to, that's your deal so long as it is not people from my messy list.
  • My messy list is No relatives -- incest grosses me out. Not my mother, my boss, my sister, etc." People like that are deal breakers.
    If you are thinking you want to come back and be with me as a lover after the exploring, please pick non-messy partners.

Just list whoever your messy people are so they are aware. Then ignore Pixie's daydreaming.

I've only been poly right at a year. Dean and I have been together for less than 7 months. Is it wrong of me to ask them to drop it altogether right now?

You are always free to ASK. They are not mind readers. How else would they know? You ask. Then they are free to say "Yes" or "No."

Is it wrong for me not to want my men to engage in sexuality under incestuous circumstances?

If it grosses you out, say so. They are not mind readers. If they are hell bent on doing it anyway, break up now. Move on.

Part of the business of dating to me is to sort out compatible ones. Not everyone you date will be a long haul runner. Remaining silent about deal breakers isn't helping you do your job and sort that out. Speak up.

I confessed to both of them that I don't want to control their actions. But I can't promise that it won't harm our intimacy and closeness if something like that were to happen.

That's fair. It's not controlling their behavior. It's telling people where YOU stand and controlling YOUR staying behavior.

You are making them aware that if they go off doing incest type sex, it's such a gross out to you it is a deal breaker. You don't want to share sex with them again after that. That is you controlling your "staying-ness." Not telling them what to do. They are free to go off and still do it if they really want.

I'm just not sure if I'm being completely fair or not.

I think where you are not being fair is being mad at Pixie. The only agreement I read that you asked of her is to not involve you in threesome stuff. Then you are mad later because she didn't run her threesome ideas by you first.

I think you best clarify what you meant there with Pixie rather than continuing a blow out. You might have to apologize for sending mixed messages and clear all that up so she can understand what you actually mean.

Galagirl
 
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nycindie

Active member
There seems to be a pattern with you. Whenever things come up with Zed and other people, you tend to get highly pissed off at everyone else instead of looking at something that is amiss between you and Zed. In this case, he is the one who did not inform you. Pixie had no reason to.
 
Fairness isn't necessarily relevant in this case. You have a strong emotional reaction to what's going on. You have the right to express that reaction. Telling the others involved how you feel is what's fair to *you*, and right now that can be your main priority.

With your history, it isn't at all surprising that you would have the reaction you're having to finding out that Pixie is bringing her cousin in on this. You say she's talked to your guys about having threesomes with her and her cousin. Would this involve Pixie and her cousin playing, or just the guy playing with each of them? There is a difference, at least to me.

Something else to consider... they're cousins, but *what* cousins? First cousins, i.e. they have parents who are siblings? Second cousins, i.e. their parents are first cousins to each other? etc. To some people, that might make a difference; even in the law, in some places it's entirely legal for second cousins to marry, but not first cousins. (Though I believe there are places it's legal for first cousins to marry; I would have to look it up to be sure.)

I think, though, regardless of Pixie and Blondie's relationship to each other or whether they would actually be playing with each other, the bottom line is that regardless of *your* comfort level with that type of interaction--sorry to be harsh, but it isn't up to you. Unless they're asking *you* to participate in the threesome with Pixie and Blondie, while you do have the right to say "That kind of thing makes me uncomfortable", you're not directly involved, so your comfort level has nothing to do with whether it happens or not. It is up to the people who will actually be participating to decide whether they're okay with it.

As far as Pixie not approaching you before talking to Blondie and the guys--is she supposed to? Is there an agreement like "If Pixie has a sexual idea for Dean or Zed, she'll talk to Bunnie before she talks to anyone else?" If not, why would you expect her to talk to you about it--especially *before* talking to the other woman who would actually be involved in the threesome? Again, you aren't involved, so you have the right to express your opinion but your opinion isn't necessarily a factor in what happens.

That would be like me telling Woody "Nope, you can't fuck Highlight from behind, because you didn't ask me about it first and I think that's a disgusting position." I don't have the right to dictate their relationship, I don't have the right to dictate their sex life, and I don't have the right to expect to be consulted about everything they do. ONLY about the things that actually affect me. I *do* have the right to say "I think being fucked from behind is disgusting" (I don't think that, by the way, that was just the first example that came to mind), but not to expect my opinion to affect what Woody does with Highlight. Can you see how it might not be entirely reasonable to expect other people to make choices about *their* interactions based on *your* opinions and reactions?

I also kind of think that your reaction to the threesome issue before might be the reason you weren't spoken to about this sooner than you were...

My reaction was mainly based on the fact that Pixie DID say she wanted to come to me about these sorts of things. Especially with us being new in this. When she approached Blondie about this it was after Zed had asked her NOT to.

Another part of my reaction was when Pixie told her cousin "she might be convinced to share him." I felt as though I was being undermined and my recent discomfort was ignored.
 
There seems to be a pattern with you. Whenever things come up with Zed and other people, you tend to get highly pissed off at everyone else instead of looking at something that is amiss between you and Zed. In this case, he is the one who did not inform you. Pixie had no reason to.

Zed told me as soon as he found out. He was also kind of left in the dark because he asked Pixie not to say anything.
 
As far as it not being a priority to them, this is where I got confused. When I approached the subject with Pixie, she's made it clear she's trying to seek helping them fulfill their own desires, not hers.

This seems a little off because both my guys have told ME it's not really a thing for them. When I discussed this with Dean and my concerns, he said that I could tell him that I never want him to be in a threesome again and he would happily oblige. It's not a need or a priority for him. Granted, that's not what I asked of him because I know that's unfair. I really just asked that we slow this down a little and appreciate what we have for a while. That would be the best thing for me right now.

I'm just honestly confused. I feel as though the guys have told me one thing while Pixie understands another. If it's such a small priority to them and yet the idea is still entertained knowing I'm not ready, where do I fall in that?

Pixie and I aren't fighting anymore and she seems to have reached somewhat of an understanding. I just feel like I've been expected to grow their way and at their pace. It's been less than two months and it's a subject that's now been approached 4 times as though my comfort level is just going to turn over in one night. Which is mainly what's making me so uncomfortable to begin with.
 

nycindie

Active member
Well, if it is so upsetting to you, then I'd say you need to tell all of them just not to bring it up anymore, and don't be mad when they don't inform you. If either Dean or Zed wants to have threesomes with Pixie and anyone else, it really isn't anything to do with you, none of your business, and there would be no need to clear it with you first or talk to you about it at all. Simple.
 
Well, if it is so upsetting to you, then I'd say you need to tell all of them just not to bring it up anymore, and don't be mad when they don't inform you. If either Dean or Zed wants to have threesomes with Pixie and anyone else, it really isn't anything to do with you, none of your business, and there would be no need to clear it with you first or talk to you about it at all. Simple.

I would much rather know than not know. Not knowing what's going on is really the main thing that's caused all this.
 

nycindie

Active member
No wonder you are in conflict here - you give conflicting messages. To hear about it and have them bring it up "triggers" you and gets you upset, and yet you want to know about it. Damn, none of them will be able to get it right.

Why do you need to know what kind of sex is going on when you're not involved? They aren't allowed any privacy?
 

GreenAcres

New member
So, I am confused. Let me see if I this is accurate:

1. You're poly, but your meta--someone you, yourself, are not having sex with:
-has to get your approval to have sex with someone besides your mutal partner?
-has to ask you to have specific kinds of sex?
2. Your partner has to ask you to have specific kinds of sex:
-even if those kinds of sex don't have anything to do with you, and
-even if those particular kinds of sex are with partners/potential partners that have already been "approved" by you?

Is this correct? I can understand why you, yourself, don't want to participate in threesome sex. I can understand why you, yourself, don't want to have sex with your cousin. But, I don't understand why either of your partners (and especially your meta) would have to ask your permission or inform you of a certain kind of sex act, so long as they were following your guidelines for safer sex and any other health-related/messy-people related stuff? You say you'd rather know, but you knowing seems to create drama and stress for everyone involved, even though you are not involved?

I am very lost.
 
No wonder you are in conflict here - you give conflicting messages. To hear about it and have them bring it up "triggers" you and gets you upset, and yet you want to know about it. Damn, none of them will be able to get it right.

Why do you need to know what kind of sex is going on when you're not involved? They aren't allowed any privacy?

I need to know if another party is being considered. If for no other reason but for health concerns. we've all agreed to talk thoroughly about it before even considering it.

When the threesome thing was brought up before, I was told it would be dropped right now. That was about a month ago. Now it's not only been brought up again, it was manufactured entirely by Pixie against Zeds will.

Pixie and I have established our friendship as a very close one. We want to discuss everything. Yet this one instance it was kept from me. And I don't understand why. It's never bothered me at all, Zeds attraction to other women. Nearly all of my negative feelings could have been avoided had she done what she usually does "so Zed is attracted to my cousin. How do you feel about that?" But I didn't get that at all this time.

It also doesn't help that I found out during all this that Pixie lied to me about something else and created an issue out of a non-issue. Which has also hurt my trust.
 
So, I am confused. Let me see if I this is accurate:

1. You're poly, but your meta--someone you, yourself, are not having sex with:
-has to get your approval to have sex with someone besides your mutal partner? No. Not at all. Don't really care. Just disclosure when a new partner is introduced to keep us in the loop.
-has to ask you to have specific kinds of sex? Never. None of my business.
2. Your partner has to ask you to have specific kinds of sex: Nope. That's his prerogative what he tells me when it comes to the details of his sex life.
-even if those kinds of sex don't have anything to do with you, and
-even if those particular kinds of sex are with partners/potential partners that have already been "approved" by you?

Our agreement is that we simply disclose our interest once it occurs and allow us to become familiar with a new sexual interest. Allow that trust to have a chance to build. This is the only real "approval" method we go through. We don't even really have to like the other person, that friendship just has to be available to us.

Is this correct? I can understand why you, yourself, don't want to participate in threesome sex. I can understand why you, yourself, don't want to have sex with your cousin. But, I don't understand why either of your partners (and especially your meta) would have to ask your permission or inform you of a certain kind of sex act, so long as they were following your guidelines for safer sex and any other health-related/messy-people related stuff? You say you'd rather know, but you knowing seems to create drama and stress for everyone involved, even though you are not involved?

I am very lost.

The messy people portion is the part which I feel is important to consider. Maybe my input didn't matter there, but I felt somewhat deceived by a close friend. I didn't even get a chance to hash anything out with her even remotely. We see each other almost every day and it never seemed to cross her mind to bring up "So what would you think if I hooked my cousin up with your husband?" That would not have been totally out of the ordinary for our level of friendship.I would have handled it better than what did happen:

Zed woke up the other morning and had an extreme anxiety attack because he felt pressured by Pixie to have sex with her cousin and she spoke to Blondie against his will about it.

I hope that clears some of that up. I've been kind of frazzled for a few days now..
 
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tenK

New member
In my (admittedly limited) experience of juggling close friendships with being metamours, you still need to keep some boundaries. I think in this case, and in the future, you would actually be a lot less wound up by it all if you had the expectation that only Zed (or Dean) would come to you about these issues. Sure, if Pixie is debating a course of action in her own mind and wants your input *as a friend*, then she should come to you. The problem I see here is that you felt she also should have come to you to solicit your opinion *as a metamour*, and that's where things got/get messy. It's really hard to wear two hats at once. It's also really hard to juggle multiple needs at once. Pixie's job would be simpler if she only had to deal with her partners' needs and her own. Your job would be easier if you only had to deal with your partners' needs and your own. Trying to also triangulate and accommodate each other in addition to that sounds like a recipe for trouble, especially if there is a friendship there. As metamours, you and she might often be in conflict. As friends, you are going to want to be there for each other in times of conflict/struggle. It's not an impossible thing to balance, but I think it does require you guys to let your hinges hinge, if you know what I mean. Recognise when it's appropriate to let your shared partner make his decision, present thoughts to the right person at the right time, and let go of the assumption that your friend can do that on top of advocating for her own relationship wants.

In this particular situation, had you all been clear about that, what I see as what would have happened is this: Pixie proposes idea to Zed, Zed asks her not to approach cousin as he's not sure about it, Pixie approaches cousin anyway, Zed is upset, Zed and Puxie resolve that upset (or not), and you are left out of it, happy as a clam because you know that had Zed been interested in the first place, HE would have come to YOU to find out how you felt about it, and you would have had a chance then to express your reservations and be heard.

It sounds like you might actually also be being a bit 'mama-bear' because Zed had a panic attack too. Make sure you are clear in your own mind how much of your reaction is sticking up for him/reacting to his being upset.

At the end of the day, you are hurt because you had an expectation that wasn't met. I'm gently suggesting that that expectation might not be a particularly easy one for Pixie to meet all the time, and you might be better off being clear about when you are operating as friends, and when as metamours. This stuff is hard. It's one of the reasons I struggled when Nina and I were dating the same person, because that meant I sometimes had to relate to the woman I love as a metamour - occasionally I would be jealous of her, feel annoyed by the way she interacted with our shared partner - lots of difficult emotions to have with someone you are ordinarily very close to and who you are used to experiencing low levels of friction with. The only way I found to handle it was to compartmentalise my multiple relationships with the same person, and to accept that as my girlfriend I could expect different things from her than when she was being my metamour, and that sometimes I had to deliberately forgive and forget, or ask our shared partner to be more vocal about his wants so that I could more clearly see his input in what was going. Keeping it all in perspective is so crucial because I think it's only human nature at times to blame others when our partner's disappoint us or we feel like our boundaries are being challenged. Don't let your emotional closeness to Pixie as a friend be a stick to beat each other with. In this instant she's your metamour. If Zed were dating someone you only knew cordially, I think you'd have no expectations about her consulting you on such matters; you'd expect all traffic to come through Zed. I think you need to give Pixie the same courtesy (that's not quite the right word - I guess I just mean you need to cut her the same slack you would an ordinary metamour) because it sounds like you are both on different pages, and although she no doubt cares a lot about your feelings and agreed to try to communicate more directly with you, the expectations are still too great. Best to preserve the friendship I think, and encourage Zed to do more hinge-ing.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hi Bunnielight,

I think that your current/recent situation is complex, but one generalized impression I get is that you are upset due to how fast this is all happening. "We've barely started seeing each other, and already we're talking about threesomes." That seems reasonable enough and maybe you could ask Zed, Dean, and (perhaps especially) Pixie to slow things down a bit and give you some time to process.

I see no reason at all why you should be obligated in any way to join in on a threesome. Threesomes are not for everyone.

A more complicated part of the situation is figuring out what Pixie should and shouldn't be telling you (and/or others). It seems clear in retrospect that it would be better for Pixie to tell you in advance when something like a threesome is brewing between her and/or Zed and/or Dean. Whether Pixie realized that from the start I don't know, but she should at least know it going forward.

Re: incest ... it is hard for me to empathize on this one because I'm pretty liberal about that stuff; essentially if it's between consenting adults then it's not a problem. I guess the complicated question is, Whose consent is required? just the consent of those doing the deed, or also the consent of a partner on the sidelines? If the latter, then your consent would be required and you would be in the right to say involvement of a cousin in a threesome is a boundary for you, and would damage your relationship with Zed and/or Dean (and/or Pixie?).

So much for theory. In practice, you can draw your boundaries around yourself in whatever shape seems right to you. So, there's really nothing wrong with telling Zed, "It would hurt my relationship with you if you got involved in an incestuous threesome like that." Your life, your body, your boundaries. Your right to decide.

I don't have any outright advice or solutions, but those are some of my thoughts and observations.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I appreciate your response, unfortunately this has evolved into a greater issue because it seems I've been deceived to a greater extent than what I originally knew.

I've been debating whether to post it, I've just been trying to manage my reaction today.
 

clalb

New member
I appreciate your response, unfortunately this has evolved into a greater issue because it seems I've been deceived to a greater extent than what I originally knew.

I've been debating whether to post it, I've just been trying to manage my reaction today.

I´m sorry to hear that. Sometimes venting out helps (me) a lot. Sending you hugs, if you need them.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
I wonder what happened now?

According to your sig, Pixie is involved with BOTH the men you are involved with. Dating your husband and "married" to your bf? Plus she has one other guy (her legal husband?).

Now she wants to get her cousin to fuck one or both of your guys in a threesome with her? Is it her first cousin? Is she bi? Is she already fucking her female cousin? If so, she's got 3 men and a woman she is fucking, and now wants to involve that female sex partner with at least one of her other male partners?

And now there's another issue? What now?
 
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