GalaGirl: Conversations Already in Progress.


Well-known member
'Tis my thread. Welcome to my brain. It's conversations already in progress in here. You just jump in and try to keep up. If you can. ;)

But I wanted to have a single thread to dump the things I write to other people's posts that I want to come back to think about some more. Or things I just want to think about "out loud."

I asked my husband if he'd be ok with that (because it could give strangers peeks into our world. And he ought to know who is peeking at his panties.)

His response amused me when I asked him over email if he would be ok with it is below. We talked about it in person and then let it sit a bit and I reconfirmed before starting the thread. First panty peeks at my DH and me? And how we interact in a closed polyship of 2? With a polyamorous wired Wife and a monoamorous wired Husband that is poly-friendly?

Short answer: Yes.

Medium answer: Oh my, my! Oh Hell yes! Show those people your party dress!

Longer answer: Let's talk about it this evening. The risk is reasonably low to us and our family (though admittedly never non-existent) but I'm curious to see the direction you want to take this. I get off on you on so many levels. On the practical one I think you have a lot of non-muppet methodologies and ethics to share that I think others could greatly benefit from (and that particular slice of the world could use less Muppets).

On the "GalaGirl <---> Me" layer it shines a spotlight on the many ways we relate to one another that further Opens us to each other even if we never decide to Open to others. It also gives us experience trying these ideas and feelings on for size. Is this compersion, is this jealousy, how would I feel if you went out on a date (I've already been playgrounding that one), how would I feel about someone else tapping in to the whirlwind of energy that is you?

Of course on the pervy layer it appeals to my getting off on you exhibiting your panties for others to see and possibly get themselves off (you can't ignore the pervy layer, it's there after all).

Who knows, maybe getting a peak at your panties will feed someone else's relationship.

I love it when you get so wet that you spill all over,
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(excerpted and expanded from this thread.)


In high school I always felt simultaneous multi-crushes, intense ones. I had relationships with several boys that were close. We did not know what else to call it so we put it in the "sister-brother" bucket but I remember the most intense one SO was not brotherly in MY mind. Neither were the others. But... at that age you go with what feels safest in your public persona. Actually a lot of people just assumed I was dating one of the guys -- it was me and 3 other boys who were all friends together. And I would have dated them all at once if I could have.

Sometimes someone would be brave enough to ask "So what's UP with you and X, Y, and Z? Are you going out with one of them?" and I'd just smile and shrug and say "Nah. We're good friends."

We all dated others and danced around it -- me never formally dating ANY of the three I most wanted to date. I don't think I could have had a "V" in high school though much less a 3 man quad! But I did have a few of those non-date dates with 2 of them -- dances, and movies, and whatnot.

The strongest, oldest crush in that trio of boys did not confess his own feelings to me until much later when we were in colleges miles apart and it no longer was an emotional threat. He had the strongest pull for me of the trio even though I cared for them all. It was sweet, but a "Damn! what could have been?" moment when he told me he would have been open to it. We have not spoken in years and his life has taken turns I do not understand but to this day I still love him from afar and wish him well in his life. Even if he doesn't know it.

My actual public HS BF? I think of him fondly too. And wish him well. He hard a hard time coping with me being Me. I'm not mad about it despite the mess it became as we struggled to keep dating in college. I needed something he could not provide at that time of his development.

That's part of why I'm so stern/strict with my limits. I love for life. I'm dog loyal on that even when relationships move on and evolve to other forms or fade away. I just don't want to be THAT loyal to all and sundry.

In college I had the start of my unnamed "V" -- that's where it ended up at after I played the field a bit. Closing down to me as the hinge of an MFM "V" structure for a few years. It was sweet. One (my future DH) did not see anyone else. The other side, my ex OSO did and I totally encouraged him because he had the hardest leg with it being LDR. I told him to find a local Sweetie and not limit himself. I did not expect exclusive. For me it just naturally fell that way. I didn't want more than the 2, DH didn't want more than the one though he could exercise the option, and ex OSO kinda HAD to exercise the option or endure a very lonely existance in LDR with me. One year, it changed to both of them being LDR to me and at that time I wondered if I wanted to exercise my option to see a local sweetie third... but I didn't. My plate was full enough as it was.

At the time I was still ignorant about vocab. I did not even know the word "polyamory!" Much less "V" or being a "hinge" person. I just knew I wanted to live and love how I wanted to live and love and nobody was going to stop me. And I was going to do it up front, honest, and ethically. As best as I could with nothing but my instinct to help me -- resources for me were nonexistent. So help me, even if it killed me, or doomed all my relationships, I was just going to be me all the way across. Loving Hard.

Then I was married
and moving toward thinking of having a kid by the time the first edition of "Ethical Slut" rolled around. I was amused that it came too late for me. I was out of the dating pool!

Today? I've been in a closed polyship of 2 with DH for 16 yrs and we've been together almost 20. He was one of my college "V" arms. We're not at a place where we'd consider Opening again right now. Too much on our plates with kidcare, eldercare for aging parents, etc. But we talk a lot, and he knows how I'm wired and he loves me how I am and I love him as he is. So we're happy.

If opportunity comes to fly another polyship one more time... and we decide to take the flight? I think we'd be fine. It's been done before unnamed. Why would a Named one be different? We're still the us we are.

So my intro to poly? I'm not sure. It's always been kinda... there.

It's just been learning to roll with it and own it and live it.

I love hard. I live hard. I want to live my life full on fierce and in color and all the way out to the edges. Because I only get the one.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. :D

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(excerpt from this thread)

I was in a rush. Sorry about that -- we use words differently. To clarify... to me?

"Monogamy, polygamy, polyfidelity, open, closed, triad, V, quad" -- those kinds of words are describing the relationship structures people could be in.

The desire for only one person to love romantically at a time to me is "monoamory." The desire to love many to me is "polyamory." I think there are some people internally wired for mono- and some wired for poly-. Just like some people are wired for fast or slow metabolism or whatever trait. They just come wired how they come.

"Monogamy" and words like that about relationship structures are more "society/culture" things than "biology" things to me though. A polyamorous wired person could choose to be in a monogamous relationship structure. A monoamorous person could choose to be in a "V" structure.


I always seem to circle back to something I feel is a Truth for me.

I cannot help what I feel when I feel it. Rain is rain. Sun is sun. Emotion is emotion. It just burbles up. I don't choose when it burbles. So just let it blow on through! Internal weather is only internal weather. So what? There's sunny days and stormy skies in there. And? It blows on through.

What I CAN control is how I choose to BEHAVE in response to that emotion.

  • I can choose to just REACT.
  • I can choose to ACT WITH INTENTION.
  • Even choosing to do NOTHING? That is a choice.

I can choose many ways to handle internal weather so that I move to sunny days faster. And I don't mind the stormy weather if it is navigated well. When else do you get rainbows? I love the bittersweet sweet moments. They can be so tender and dear.

But whatever choice I make? It's mine to choose. And I cannot escape the consequences of my choice.

I have to own my own baggage. Everyone has to own their own bag.

When DH and I first got together? I told him I was not seeking an exclusive thing. I wanted to see others and he could too. I remember that talk because it was on the side of the education building at our college campus. It was very much a relationship of the present - no pasts, no futures. Friends, with benefits. I chose to offer him that type relationship, he chose to sign up.

We hit other crossroads and kept on choosing each other. When he had to move cities and it became an LDR thing. When I asked him to move back and move in with me. And it became a cohabitating with a roomie thing. When I asked him to choose to just be us without a roomie, to marry. When we chose to move to again, to a time/space where children could come on board too. We chose to have our kid.

It amazes me we've been together pretty much ever since those first encounters where we became friends. Changing the agreement for how to be together as needed as we kept growing and evolving in ourselves and not just in our relationship to each other. Choosing to be flexible and choosing to grow together as well as on our own.

Today? DH and I have an agreement to stay closed throughout active parenting stage of our life. I am going to stick with that. This I choose to do. This he chooses to do too. We hold up our ends of all sticks in our agreement for how we choose to be together. When it comes time to reassess, we do that.

Actually, that's one of our favorite quotes. The Tiffany Aching character thinks to herself --
“This I choose to do. If there is a price, this I choose to pay. If it is my death, then I choose to die. Where this takes me, there I choose to go. I choose. This I choose to do.”

― Terry Pratchett, Wintersmith

I am glad we choose (despite the mono-poly mismatch thing) to keep it real and keep it sane. To choose to act with intention most of the time. For 19 years and counting? The major fights we've had? I can count on the fingers of one hand. Pretty good record for being friends, then lovers, then spouses, and then co-parenting. There have been many joys and many maddening moments, but we keep on choosing to keep it real and keep it sane with each other at least, even if figuring out how to weather the next thing that came up takes a few stabs to solve.

I'm so glad we chose each other, and that we just choose to get along well. :D

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ON MONO-POLY RSHIP COMPATABILITY PT 1: Polywired Person Wanting to be Understood

(This is FIVE long excerpts from this thread.)

Not too sure how to condense it and I'm really tired today so I'll just lift and plop so I can think about it with DH some more later. Just sorta roughly organized.


I can only speak from my experience.

Is poly something that is SO innate, like homosexuality or breathing, something you HAVE to do, not something you can choose to do, like quit smoking or eat less, exercise more?
I am polywired.

Whether I am single and in the polyship of 1 -- just me!
Or like now -- the married closed polyship of 2.
Or like yesteryear -- the dating polyship of 3.

Still poly all those times.

I also question the concept of choice for polyship when I hear 2 different viewpoints:

1. I met another person at work/the gym/church/etc and we have a connection that I'd love to explore.
2. I am poly and need to love more than one person, so I'm off to find another person to love. Is that really a need or a want?

Does not apply to me? (puzzled)

1) That is a want. I would perceeve this as someone asking their spouse to discuss if being allowed to explore is a possibility.

2) That is a need. Coupled with a break up -- because this person is not even asking the spouse for their input or comfort level. They are announcing just gonna GO. Kinda mean too and not kind with their feelings.

My current agreement with DH is marriage -- in a closed polyship of 2 while we're in active parenting mode. That was the agreement and we will stick to it. We have an annual "state of the union" near our anniversary to review what is working, what is not, etc. We're both content. I think if you have made an agreement, you FINISH the agreement before starting off on a new path. For some it may mean writing a new agreement for how to best be together. For others it might be breaking up.

I'm very fortunate in my DH. He is not Closed to parts of me. He is Open to all of me. And for this I love him so.

My mono-BF1 (now my DH) and mono-BF2 knew before dating me I was poly. So there was no struggle of not having known. And it suddenly changing on 'em later. When we got married, DH and I had no struggles with a "mono spouse vs poly spouse" dynamic. Because he knew all this well before hand. It was "mono spouse AND poly spouse" from the get go.

I think it is harder for people who marry and then come to terms with their poly side after the marriage has already begun. Maybe they don't realize polyamory has a name until much later or something. Or maybe it is the marriage that makes them finally realize -- "wait.... this isn't it!" Then the struggle to cope.

It's entirely possible for poly me to be happy in a closed married polyship of 2. I've been here for more than a 15 yrs since BF2 and I parted ways amicably. And I am happy, loved, and content.

Why? Because I can be the authentic me and nothing is hidden. Periodically I'll pop up with some poly wonderings, readings, or musings and mono DH shares the thoughts with me and that satisfies me. The exchange of ideas in calm fashion. That I am loved as I am, authentically. There's no panic or freak out on his end. He knew it going in and he's lived with me this long and he KNOWS I'm not going anywhere so he's secure with me.

He likes to yank my chain when I announce I have a new crush (I never tell the crush person though-- we are closed) and I like being teased and I like crushing from a distance. It's flirty and fun for DH and I and our bond is tight so we can enjoy that sort of titillating banter.

Maybe that's the partial crux in other marriages? The poly person is not free to be their authentic selves with the mono spouse? I'm not talking about free to date. I mean free to express their poly thoughts? And not have the spouse wig out and rage at them?

Because it's like... if my mono DH says he loves me, all of me, just as I am? How much all of me is he really loving if I cannot even express my polyside thoughts to him -- my life partner? Without him having a conniption?

I don't want to leave him. I don't want to betray our agreements. But I do want to be able to talk to him about my inner self, my ideas, my crushes, my STUFF.

Doesn't he want to know me? All of me? Or does he just want to love a sanitized version of me that meets his approval or is easier to digest?

Who does that leave me to talk to then to create emotional intimacy and bond and all that other good married stuff? Cuz he's the one I'm married to?

For us in marriage, the mono DH OPENS up to share poly thoughts, ideas, books, etc. The poly wife CLOSES to a polyship of 2. That's been our happy medium place and it satisfies. If we choose to Re-Open later, it's coming from an informed, "been here before" type place and years of talk.

We've agreed that if both are not on board, it's fine to carry on as just as we are. I'm not lacking anything. Because I can be authentic in my relationship with him and he doesn't bat an eye. Just staying Open to each other even if not ever opening up to Another again.

And it so satisfies me. I love him how he is loving me how I am.

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(This is long excerpts from this thread.)

So to many here 'being poly' means simply having crushes on or falling in love with more than one person at a time. But not that you must act on it to 'be your authentic poly self?'
To me polyamory is the ability to love more than one at a time. But I don't have to ACT on it. My fav button is "Bi, poly and I STILL won't sleep with you!" I could be SINGLE and poly and not act on anything at all.

The desire for only one person to love romantically at a time to me is "monoamory." I think there are some people internally wired for mono- and some wired for poly-. Just like some people are wired for fast or slow metabolism or whatever trait. They just come wired how they come.

A polyamorous wired person could choose to be in a monogamous relationship structure. A monoamorous person could choose to be in a "V" structure. They both could choose to be celibate for all we know -- and still be polywired or monowired. Just not actively seeking a partner.

I mean, mono DH sees cute people on the street -- and he don't run over to them to jump their bones just cuz he saw them! He is a monowired man in a closed married rship!

Why would I jump their bones just cuz I'm polywired? Sheesh. I am in a closed married rship!

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ON MONO-POLY RELATIONSHIP COMPATIBILITY Pt 3: Bad Reaction of the Mono Partner Alienating Ethical Poly Person Sharing Vulnerable

(This is long excerpts from this thread.)

I've had this conversation with BF and he very much feels poly is a lifestyle choice, but there again, I think he's equating 'poly' to actions, whereas some here are equating 'poly' to a feeling.

What about the actions of a MONO in a mono-poly relationship?

The expression of polygamous relationship structures are wide and varied -- V, triads, quads, tribes, etc. THAT is structure to me.

The expression of polyamourous wiring -- that's wiring. I can totally be in a 2 person rship and feel happy, loved, and content if I am allowed expression of my polyside. I don't NEED to have another lover. I NEED to be understood and loved like I am. Not keep a part of me stuffed down and hidden because... my spouse can't handle me talking about things?

What kind of wimpy spouse did I marry? Where just talk is threatening?

The saddest things I see? The situation of a mono spouse and a poly spouse who comes into poly awareness AFTER the marriage. Maybe the poly spouse was too scared to share this side of themselves BEFORE the marriage. Maybe they come into awareness after the marriage. Maybe they are in a serious rship but not married. Whatever.

But if the ethical poly person turns to mono partner to share Vulnerable Things -- isn't that what you are supposed to DO?

And the mono partner blows a gasket and unloads abuse and crazy on the Vulnerable poly partner? For what? For just coming to the Loved One with a Vulnerable?

I don't see how THAT helps any to move the relationship forward toward a happy medium where both can coexist in harmony. All that does is shut the poly person off from nurture/support at the quarter they need it most. And then things REALLY can go haywire.

I always wonder what sort of foundation the relationship/marriage has if just talk can blow it apart. And what the poly person is supposed to do. Pretend they don't have polywiring? Where do they go to express it? Are they happy knowing they are married to a mono partner who is supposed to love them who actually... only loves some of them -- the parts that are "acceptable" only? Is the mono partner happy knowing about this side of their poly person now? And knowing deep down that they wish they never knew it because they rather NOT love the whole person and now have to live knowing this darker side of themselves?

Trying to ignore or sweep it under the rug -- that sort of thing just makes walls.

It can become very lonely in there -- and it's strange to feel lonely inside a relationship when your Loved One doesn't even want to deal with talking about much less loving a part of you that does exist. When you start to feel unloved in your relationship? That's no good at all. It leads to all kinds of trouble.

I ended an rship with a BF NOT because he was mono or because I couldn't be happy in a mono rship as a bi or poly person. But because he denied me my personhood, he only wanted to love a sanitized me, he didn't want to talk about my polyside and give me a small space to express it (just in talking to him!) and because he was so insecure he was a drain. So. Cut ME off from partner love, nurture and support but suck me dry? Ugh. I grew sad, lonely, then later tired and bored. I left. And not to leave him for another like he always feared. I left him to be ALONE because he was not partner to me. He was a black hole of need I could not fill or satisfy. I was less lonely ALONE than with him.

I asked DH the other day if I make him nuts when I ask him all sorts of poly weird and he just laughed and stroked my hair. "I love you. I love you making me nuts. I don't love some Idealized you. I love YOU you. That is the you I love, and that is the you I NEED."

And this satisfies my Soul. And I'd follow him to the ends of the Earth just to keep living in the Heaven that is him. I have never been loved so completely, faithfully, and understandingly. Open or Closed or Upside Down even... You can bet your ass I'm not letting THAT one go without a fight! I adore my DH. :D

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ON MONO-POLY RELATIONSHIP COMPATIBILITY Pt 4: Choosing to NOT go there Openly with Support

Originally Posted by Josie
It never really occurred to me to act on them - because that wasn't part of the relationship agreement - but I always needed to express it.

Originally Posted by tonberry
It makes the difference between feeling miserable for not being allowed to ask someone out, and feeling free and fulfilled because I have that option - even if I decide not to take advantage of it.


I feel like this...

Even if polyme chooses to be in a closed polyship of 2 for whatever reason right now? I have the choice. I can talk about it. I can think about it. I can choose to not exercise it. If I did? And wanted to go there? I know he'd try to work with me, and calmly rewrite our agreement to a new agreement for how to best be together. Because he understands, knows and loves ALL me. There is nothing hidden here.

I understand how he is wired and would work with HIM back. So he can feel safe in all his buckets too -- mind, heart, body, soul. Why would I go make his life hell by shaking up his emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual health all willynilly? I love him! I will treat him in loving ways, not cruel ones!

Right now it is not the time -- I have kid and eldercare and my own chronic patient stuff -- I am not FIT to be seeking a new lover. I don't NEED a new lover. Would it be fun? Sure! But this is not the right time, nor the right place in my life. Husband is all I need and want as husband. And then some. Because I know how rare it is to find someone who will love you for you -- all of you, just how you are.

I don't have to hide these feelings or thoughts -- I can talk about how I feel any damn time I want with my husband. My dreams, wishes, desires, thoughts, secrets... and he doesn't bat an eye. He's secure, he loves me, he understands my wiring, and he is compassionate about all my things. He will offer me support and nurture.
  • That I am upset over my father's mental health and sad on it -- my mother is losing her husband, we are losing our dad. It's called the long goodbye for a reason.
  • That I get driven bonkers by kid stuff even though I love the kid -- it is MADDENING at times.
  • That I love him dearly and I worry about all this eldercare and kidcare stealing from our couplecare time.
  • That I sometimes yearn to get to experience a new love relationship unfold into something meaningful.
  • That my joints hurt and I worry about my endocrine labs.

Whatever it is -- he will listen, support, nurture. I feel valued like a complete person.

I have the RIGHT to his support and nurture. He's agreed to our rights and responsibilities, and he holds up his end of the sticks. I hold up mine.
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance
GG you did an exemplary job explaining precisely what I've been missing and craving and needing and trying to ask for -throughout this whole marriage, including while I cheated and while we've been poly.
Glad it helps you. It is hard not to receive support/nurture from your partner. The relationship needs tending and feeding or it will wither.

zuzzlefish, I hope you get what you need from your relationship and your partner. Or move to a space where you can seek it if this particular relationship has run its course and you come to find that the two are not well suited after all.

Because where ELSE can the poly person go to get support and nurture and understanding from partner if not the partner?!
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ON MONO-POLY RELATIONSHIP COMPATIBILITY Pt 5: Cut Off from Support Can Lead to Affair, Demise of Rship, and Other Trouble

LovingRadiance said:
that was precisely why I had an affair-because I craved SOMEONE loving me for who I was. Not the right solution (learned a lot since then). But I didn't know the right solution-I only knew that I NEEDED to be safe, and I wasn't safe if I was loved "in part".

It's a struggle.

I know your story. *hugs*

I do not judge at all -- but this is common enough a situation.

It is hard. Then it becomes a struggle not just of feeling unloved and lonely, but then struggling on ethics too because deep needs are not being met.

In my case, old BF did not want to Open to my thoughts and feelings (and that is all I asked for initially. I did not ask for right to date others or for us to Open to Another. I just asked for his willingness to hear and talk to me about my inner life and try to love all of me, uncensored.) He refused. He also did NOT want to break up to set me free.

So... what the hell? I am left stuck in a relationship that does not feed me then? I try to give my 100% and actually, it is not wanted? I want to receive his 100% an actually, that won't be ever be given? I'm not a masochist. And I cannot offer support and love and nurture where I get none in return. I broke it off.

He didn't want to accept that. What a mess it became.

It was actually that break up that got me to draw up my relationship boundary points crystal clear. I was so hard ass on those in subsequent dating -- and thank goodness. Because I was strict about my limits, and very honest about my wants, needs and expectations? I never had a thing like that again because the players were CLEAR on the gamebook going in from the get go. They could add their own wants, needs, limits too of course. I wanted to know theirs too. I expected to make agreements for how to best be together, if we were going to be together.

But me? And my wants, needs, and limits? And how to best be in right relationship with me? All out there in the front window. Take it and start negotiations to crank it up a notch to a romance or leave it and let's just be friends then.

I had enough Muppet Show. Play like honorable Star Wars Jedi here or don't play with me at all.



I didn't initially but I'll add this extra tidbit here.

With that ex? I broke up with him. Because I needed to be free to see others since he cut me off from support/nurture and love in not wanting to talk about my problems, feelings and struggles in my inner life.

He chose to view it like "We are on ice" because he did not want to deal with this new information.

While I told him "It is totally over. I am seeing other people. We are done."

Because I was tired of the stonewalling and I was tired of feeling lonely and all hollow. Share in my inner life. Come IN. Or let me IN on your end to help share in your Vulnerable as you process so I can be a part of this relationship somewhere. Or just let me GO. Won't do any? I have to go then. There is no relating happening here. I can't be perpetually in limbo for the rest of my life. I want to be have a chance at the pursuit of happiness.

Later I was suddenly a cheater because he asked me if I was dating and I honestly said yes. Apparently he thought I was still his GF despite zero contact with me for a whole 3 or 4 mos? I thought I was his ex, and we were just talking one day back at home on a break. (We went to different colleges.)

I was angry, tired, bored, and just so over the whole thing. "Fine. I'm a cheater then. I am evil. NOW can we be officially broken up?"

Many years later he apologized for being such a dingbat at the time and I forgave him. I get that we were young, mismatched, and he totally spazzed out completely over the whole bi/poly thing. He was young and ignorant at the time about non-conventional models of loving and just could not deal with it well. It is what it was. College was good for him -- he met other people of other walks of life and lost that limited outlook thing eventually. He wasn't a bad person. We just weren't the fit.

But shutting down on your partner? Heaping abuse on your partner? Refusing to even deal with your partner?

It would be so much kinder to say something like "Wow. That's a lot to digest. Thank you for sharing that. I need time to take it in. I do not know what that might mean for our relationship future. But I value your being honest and up front with me."

Far more graceful even it is still the end of the relationship.

A basic mismatch is a basic mismatch. Unfortunate situation. But it doesn't HAVE to go gettin' UGLY and lashing out and just yuck on top of all else.

We cannot help how we feel because we do not get to choose how we feel. We do get to choose how we behave in response to those feelings - REACT in the heat of the moment or ACT WITH INTENTION with a cool head.

Be really remarkable to be a mono in those shoes and try to love your poly person ANYWAY and try to find a happy medium that works.

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(Excerpt from this thread.)

I can relate.

We're not at the "let's take the plunge!" place because we are not opening up during active childcare / eldercare phase of life we are in right now. Plates are FULL. And what would my dates do? Help chase my dad around to see if he's cheeking his meds? (laugh)

But we decided to Open Up in Mind and Heart even if not in Body and Soul just yet. Try it on for size in our heads and hearts to see where we are at.

So far?

1) I came out out or lurker mode here to start actively posting and participating. To give something back to a board I've read for years, and to start mingling with people I am not used to communicating with and who are not used to me. Isn't that part of the dating thing? He reads over my shoulder and we try things on for size there -- look at this post prob. How would YOU handle it?

2) We reviewed our rights and responsibilities and updated a bit so they are sleeker. Kicking the tires on that and finding they still can fly.

3) Gotten more formal at bucket checks at my house. "Where you at? In mind? Body? Heart? Soul?" Even the kid is reporting like this. LOL.

4) Gotten more formal at asking for clear wants, needs, and soft/hard limits on things around here. Even if it is just plans for dinner. To get back in shape there. (Child told me she WANTS mac and cheese. She could be ok NEEDING to eat somewhere with no mac and cheese. But she has a HARD LIMIT on sushi because we eat there too much lately and she's bored of it. I giggled -- she was so cute.)

5) Covered Ethical Slut and Opening Up exercises -- or slowly meandering through them. Ditto morethantwo and serolynne.

6) Covered configurations we might want -- V? N? quad? And who dates first? WHEN at the soonest? Because both dating amps the polymath fast, and there's the stress scale to consider. With dad how he is, I'm looking 63 hit points on my character in the game of Life dude -- NOT the time to be Opening, right? Right.

7) Covered the depth/time on these extra-marital rships -- friends with benefits? Other life partner? Cohabitating? what?

8) Who is OFF limits to date - Ex: my mother! My sister! My boss! (that stuff)

9) How "out" we want to be. How to be good spouses to each other (ORE) even when with new Spice (NRE) and how to be decent metamours to the other people.

10) Revisiting old memories of our dating past -- to each other, and not to each other. Sore spots and joys those rships had.

11) Talking about coping with jealousy, illness, std, pregnancy oops, nutjobs, risks, and if opening up causes the breaking up of the marriage. How to split up well.

12) Assumptions, expectations, desires. Reasons for opening up reality-tested.

13) Making repairs on our tier -- spending more time together as a couple to rebond, reconnect, reaffirm. (Eldercare and childcare take a DING on couplecare. We are prioritizing ourselves more.)

14) Building common vocabulary -- to make sure we are on the same page, using the same words that MEAN the same thing.

15) Spending time on polymath and polysaturation, safer sex, etc.

Not done talking and not everything and we are not in any hurry. But in case it helps you.


Today we had a family date. Took the kid out to lunch and to the movies. We all enjoyed watching Brave.

I was amused that Merida struggles to get to CHOOSE to live her own life the way she sees fit. And I was thrilled that she remains SINGLE at the end of the movie because she hasn't yet chosen. It's her story to write. DH and I both liked that -- not just for kid but for us.

We all get one life. Life is not a dress rehearsal. You really do write your own story and live it like you want to live it.

We were feeling all kooshy. We'd had a heart to heart on the couch about old relationships and jealousies and problems with exes. We'd made love intensely and with some edge play -- after finding second wind somewhere.

On the drive to the restaurant and at lunch we'd been talking over her head. (conversation already in progress: we're talking about Poly & kink)

Me: You know we're playing with two separate things here right?

DH: Yep.

Me: So while that crush is there, take that name off the table for games in the dark to be teasing me with. If I really decide to woo him to be a spotter in a scene, it gets too be too fuzzy border there for me to play like a Jedi in poly world. It's already fuzzy enough. I don't need crossovers yet.

DH: I can see that.

Me: How are you feeling about all that?

DH: Buckets? Mind, body, heart, soul? They are all good.

Me: I know I keep checking in a lot. After a point I'll let it go and then just trust you to articulate if you have a problem. I probably guard your buckets more so than my own as a married.

DH: I know. But I like hearing it spoken out loud. Articulated.

Me: Me too. I need it re-affirmed. That you are ok and on board every step of the way. It's sort of like when we were younger.

DH: Oh?

Me: Yes. Remember we used to do that weather channel thing all the time when we were first learning each other as lovers? "Does this feel good? Do you like this? Is this alright?" Then after a while we let it go and don't bother to check in on that anymore. It's been learned. The common vocabulary there has been established. Some things are also earned -- you can take a lot of liberties I would not have allowed at first.

DH: Yup. It's the same here. Temperature checks. I feel very secure, and good about it. But I do like hearing it out loud.

Me: Cool. I like that you are secure. I feel calm and secure. But I also like hearing it out loud. I'm almost done with my pass through the book.

DH: Which one? Ethical (Slut)?

Me: Yup. You want to go through it alone or together next -- I'm good either way. But I do want to have common vocab built so we're all on the same page. Probably should talk later about covering ground sensibly and doing some exercise in there just for sake of completeness. But yeah... I'm good either way.

DH: Mm. Alright. I know you are good either way. (making a sexy/rude gesture with his hands.)

Me: See now you are just flirting. And not being especially stealthy about it.

DH: Sure I am. It's just YOU who knows what that means. And check it out... it's totally the smile. It goes to the eyes. (We'd been oogling our waitress)

Me: Where? Ah. Agreed. Totally the smile.

DH: (grinning) See? And you didn't have a cow or get all excited.

Me: Why would I have a cow? That's so minor. Remind me later to tell you about major transgressions when things are NOT earned.

DH: Who?

Me: Old relationships -- the first ex.

DH: Ok. Bookmarked it.

DH emailed me after reading my entry on the mismatch of a monoamorous person with a polyamourous person.

I sent him several other emails in response -- covering mismatch, jealousy and coping with jealousy. I also clarified there's many various pairings there. Even in ethical nonmonogamy -- could be a swinging person with a polyamorous person for instance. There's so many gradients in between -- so much of life is just Spectrum! But for the mismatch I'm talking about? It's the bold.

  • a monoamorous person with a monoamorous person in a relationship

    [*]a monoamorous person (who knows NOTHING about poly) with a polyamorous person (that just discovered this about themselves AFTER the rship was in full swing)
  • A monoamorous person (who is aware of poly and is NOT poly friendly) with a polyamorous person in rship (knowing all this BEFORE going into the rship)
  • A monoamorous person (who is aware of poly and IS poly friendly) with a polyamorous person in rship (knowing all this BEFORE going into the rship)
  • a polyamorous person with a polyamorous person

I don't think we're done on this conversation (Is any conversation on Deep Thinks ever done?) but it lead to a few in person heart to hearts that honestly? Turn me on. In all the buckets. I have to think on this some more so wanted to save it.

Just some random thoughts; it's been some long drives to and fro work and I've been doing it silently just to hear things rattle around in my head.

I'm not too sure if I would characterize myself as poly-friendly (pf) or poly-amorous (pa). I'm also in no rush to do so. There's a joy in exploring that with you. I know that I am definitely friendly (very much so) but I think my only real experience not being an endpoint was that all too brief time in the summer of '93. Was it really poly if two accept it fairly willingly and the third only begrudgingly so (and only because it was "fair"). I don't know and it really only serves to give me some perspective since I haven't exactly remained static over the years.

Even knowing that I am friendly to it doesn't mean that it would be 100% jealously free but that's not exactly a detriment or deterrent. I experienced that in our earlier v's and it wasn't a negative then either though admittedly the stakes are different now. I would like to think that it could be "used for the forces of good".

Just on the pervy-body level it could be pretty interesting; "What, he managed nine fingers? Hrm, only because he has smaller hands!" ;) I would like to know (not just think, but know) that my partner has her needs met on all levels and no one is Superman.

I would hesitate to describe pf <-> pa as a mismatch. A puzzle piece with two/three/four connectors doesn't have join to a likewise piece. Okay, not the best metaphor since I've never seen a puzzle piece with a single connector.

So maybe some nerd wooing is required here.

Look at a simple water molecule (this is a water dragon year after all).

A oxygen atom has two slots in its second electron shell while a hydrogen atom has a single electron in its first. A single oxygen atom plays very nicely with two hydrogen atoms and everyone is very balanced and stable (even the two H's play nice with each other). that I think of it, you can look at nuclear bonding for all sorts of metaphors; especially when describing more complicated relationships, those that are stable and those that are not.

I love you dearly,


Then he started emailing me pictures of water molecules. Stealth porn. Yay. :D

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DH likes to email me songs lately. He's wooing me. Music is one of his loves because he is an Audio person --learns best through his ears. I'm a Visual learner so he's stuffing in lyrics through my eyes.

He sent me "Growing Up" by Peter Gabriel this week. To mess with my head because of polyamorous configurations we've been playgrounding in our heads -- a "V", and "N", a triad, a quad, etc. Also topics like top space, sub space, female ejaculation, and vaginal fisting.

Yeah. It's delicious alright. That man makes my toes curl. Bliss.

DH's Email:

More flirt ;) I think some of the imagery here can deliciously re-interpreted:

Folded in your fleshy purse
I am floating once again
While the muted sounds are pumping rhythm
All the walls close in on me
Pressure's building wave on wave
'til the water breaks - and outside i go, oh

One dot, that's on or off, defines what is and what is not, one dot
Two dot, a pair of eyes, a voice, a touch, complete surprise, two dot

Growing up, growing up,
Looking for a place to live
Growing up, growing up
Looking for a place to live
Growing up, growing up,
Looking for a place to live

My ghost likes to travel so far in the unknown
My ghost likes to travel so deep into your space

Three dot, a trinity, a way to map the universe,
Three dot
Four dot, is what will make a square, a bed to build on, it's all there,
Four dot

My ghost likes to travel so far in the unknown
My ghost likes to travel so deep into your space

All the slow clouds pass us by
Make the Empire State look high
As you take me in your sea-stained sweetness
It spills, it tingles and it stings
All the pleasure that it brings
'til the door has let the outside inside here

Well on the floor there's a long wooden table
On the table there's an open book
On the page there's a detailed drawing
And on the drawing is the name i took

My ghost likes to travel so far in the unknown
My ghost likes to travel so deep into your space

Growing up, growing up,
Looking for a place to live
Growing up, growing up
Looking for a place to live
Growing up, growing up,
Looking for a place to live
Growing up, growing up,
Looking for a place to live

My ghost likes to travel
My ghost likes to travel
Moving inside of your space
My ghost likes to travel
My ghost likes to travel
Moving inside of your space
My ghost likes to travel
Moving inside
My ghost likes to travel
Moving inside of your space
My ghost likes to travel
Moving inside
My ghost likes to travel
Moving inside of your space

The breathing stops, i don't know when
In transition once again
Such a struggle getting through these changes
And it all seems so absurd
To be flying like a bird
When i do not feel I've really landed here

My first boyfriend had the simplest agreement:

  • 1) Do not lie to me. Just spit it out and hard truth it to me.
  • 2) Do not cheat on me and cootify me
  • 3) Don't be a ass. Play like honorable Jedi. Whatever it is, barring horrors, we can work it out. Horror being something evil like you being a rapist, serial killer, or BBQing babies. Let's keep it real.

He could not keep it real. He didn't outright lie, but there were lies of omission. He could not hard truth it to me. He never cheated or cootified me. Where he became the biggest ass? Was in not wanting to deal with me in full color. He didn't want to love all of me uncensored – he was young and it was easier for him to cope with conventional than unconventional.

I learned I needed to state full colors from the get go. I hadn't been clear so he didn't know what he was signing up for fully.

I also had not set a firm limit at the outset of the relationship, so breaking up came hard for him. I had not set my limit well. I assumed my limit was his limit for the expected duration of the rship.

And I was too nice in breaking up because I felt bad about not setting clear limit and not giving full colors. So the break up went longer than it needed. Ugh. I was upset with him, myself and the whole relationship. It was like Pigs in Space. Not entirely Muppet Backstage Chaos, but not exactly Jedi either.

So I also learned to break up hard and swift. To set better limits for clearer understanding of the mission being undertaken, and whether or not where would be an option to renew. He had his bag of things to own but so did I.

I got tougher about Loving Hard.

I played the field a bit for a short while with these revised rules – still the spirit of the old rules but more clear on the HOW of execution. This is how you stay in right relationship with me:

  • Do not lie to me. Just spit it out and hard truth it to me. I find this reasonable. If you do not, do not play here.
  • I am not looking for exclusive. Do not cheat on me and cootify me. If one of your others is looking to go loverly, give me the heads up so I can make a decision about my own sex health. I do not get excited unless it is time for me to get excited. Tell me when you have someone new, then tell me again when it looks to go lover. I find this reasonable. If you do not, do not play here.
  • Don't be an ass. Play like honorbale Jedi.
    • Lie? That's a one strike you are out.
    • Anything else? I'm willing to negotiate. But own it. More than 3 times on the same thing? You are not a serious try player. Goodbye. 3 strikes you are out.
  • If you cannot do these things, do not sign up for the mission. We're better off as friends.

I ended up in a dating and then settling into a “V” of a kind. A mono male + poly female + mono male thing with me as the hinge person.

It was fun most of the time. It was interesting. It satisfied for a long while, in many buckets. My friends with benefits became Loves. But eventually I had to narrow down further. It had challenges, mostly good ones. I regret nothing.

The break up with one side was the best break up ever. I was hard and clean and swift. It was first confusing to him and then SO understood by him.

That made it sweet – the bittersweet sweet. Dialing it down to friends and then gentle fading out of my life like he'd gently faded in . Couldn't ask for better parting.

Life with then FWB-then BF-Now DH has been sweetness of another kind.

So a new crossroads as we kick around the idea of Opening A Marriage. Old rules revisited and straightened up. I kept posting them so much in my early posts on this forum as I stepped out of years of lurker-dom that I finally just put it in my profile as a quick link.

But to have it in a post in my story thread in full? Here's my current contract of rights and responsibilities. DH and I play by these in a closed polyship of 2. It would be pretty much same/similar if it were opened. The other parties would be invited to add their things to it to help make it their banner to fly under too. But my bits? They are pretty firm.

I'd have to ask DH if there's anything there he would change.

In a relationship (of whatever configuration), the people in it have worth, value, and dignity. It demands respect. You have to TRY to play ball and be in right relationship to your people.

How I roll:

A) No lying. That's a 1 strike you are out.
Any lie of any kind – overt and lies of omission. Don't bother. Hard truth it to me. I may not like the news but I will Listen without shooting the messenger.

B) Anything else I'll negotiate on with 3 strikes you are out. Four times on the SAME issue? You are not a "give serious try" Jedi player who holds up rights and responsibilities in rship. Don't play with me. Bye.

I'll go Dossie Easton-ish for HOW to be a Jedi Player to me in our agreed upon relationship:

You have:

  • The right to clear communication
  • The right to expect support from partner
  • The right to be nurtured
  • The right to get your needs met
  • The right to responsiveness
  • The right to constructive feedback
  • The right to constructive conflict resolution
You are:

  • Responsible for knowing and stating your needs, wants and limits
  • Responsible for knowing your math tiers of this configuration
  • Responsible for following through on promises
  • Responsible for your own and your partner's buckets: mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health buckets. Carry buckets with minimal slosh. (You are NOT a footloose single any more. Don't ding me intentionally. )
  • Responsible for emergency preparedness
  • Responsible for caring for your own equipment/stuff

Life is NOT a dress rehearsal. Play hard. Play ball.

Love hard like honorable Star Wars Jedi. Not like the Muppet Show.

I love the Muppets, and they are fun to watch on TV. But I don't want to live in Muppet Backstage Chaos all the time.

I want partner(s) with hot ethics, beliefs and values.
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I had a strange night last night. It's crazy timing too because I'm reviewing our agreement of how to be in right relationship.

Without spilling too many beans, a married friend of mine is experiencing problems because they Opened with NO framework. Now they are struggling.

I tried to be a Supportive Friendly Ear to let friend vent. It took hours. It was sad. It was just heartbreaking. I felt so bad for my friend.

But this kind of stuff makes me bonkers. HOW can you be a responsible adult person and Open WITHOUT thinking things through to the best of your ability? You abilities may not take you all the way and may need growing but you at least STOP to work some of that out, right? Not just jump in willy nilly?

I did what I could for my suffering friend and can only hope friend takes charge of their situation in a good way.

But in a rare move, I tacked on a specific even though I feel it is covered under "You have the right to clear communication" and "You are responsible for your own and your partner's buckets"

I put it down in the responsibility bucket too in even more crystal clear fashion.

  • You are responsible for telling if keeping a confidence can hurt someone/is hurting someone

Honestly. They teach my kid this in school all the time about GOOD secret keeping and BAD secret keeping.

It's fine to keep a secret or confidence for a short while so Daddy can have a surprise birthday party. We are not keeping the secret to HURT him.

It is NOT fine to keep a secret or confidence if you know someone is being hurt or could get hurt. Knowingly participating in activities that hurt yourself or your partner or another.

You are supposed to tend your own and your partner's well being right? The buckets of mental health, emotional health, spiritual health, physical health?


We do not keep secrets that can hurt / are hurting someone.

That's so not Jedi. It's not even Muppet. It's not just uncouth.

It's barbaric --- savagely cruel!

Thppppt to that! :mad:

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I am exhausted. We were talking while cleaning the bedroom and preparing for the delivery of the new bed tomorrow. And it eventually led to a heart-to-heart thing. And I have to sit with all that and digest it. But I wanted to capture a feeling snapshot.

In the course of conversation, I mentioned my ex. We were playgrounding the "what people are off limits?" Obvious people NOT to date would be like my parents or his boss. But what about the fuzzy people? Existing friends? Exes?

We bookmarked that conversation to explore more deeply at a later date but I mentioned his ex and I know I'd have a problem there. He said he would have a problem himself there. I'd mentioned another of my exes that I'd have a problem with too. He shrugged.

Then I asked what happens if we are not in agreement -- say I have a problem with his ex and he wants to go there anyway. THEN what? He said "Ah. Right. I see your point."

Many sticky wickets to navigate, no?

Then I mentioned the exBF that had been in the V.

DH: I know we'll have a deeper conversation on that one later but just so you know? Right now? I'd be ok with that one. And I don't even know him all that well -- back then or now. But you? The smile goes to the eyes whenever you think of him. Even 20 years later. And I love seeing you smile like that.

Me: Well... um.... yah. (*headwedgiecumstars*)

DH: Hee hee.

Me: Just so YOU know? We'll talk. But that is SO not happening right now. Too many years and it would have to start all over like from ground zero. It's not just pick up where we left off. All of us have changed. And NOTHING ruins good ghost memories like trying to go back to the well too many times. I hate that.

DH: I know. But just so you know? I'd be alright with you exploring that one if you decided you wanted to come to me to negotiate that one. Because it still goes to the eyes.

Me: Gah! Cut it OUT. But yeah.... to the eyes. THIS is why the poly thing. And STOP looking at my eyes. I want to stuff my head under a pillow! Gah!

He just laughed.

I rarely blush. If I could really stuff my head under a pillow as I type this I would.

I burn! That intense pleasure BURN.

But THIS is the why for me. It's not just the kooshy compersion thing. It's being understood to the bone thing. My partner gets me in mind, body, heart, and soul to the fucking bone.

Unbearable sweetness. Horrible! Wonderful!

Me: UGH!!!!! Horrible man!

DH: Hee hee.

Me: See? And if I could have two of you like this? I would be SOOO great then.

DH: Yup. And I'd be in trouble with all the "wheee!" flying around. I'd need it just to get a break from you and your wheee. 'Help! Help! Come help me and take some of the load off me, please! She's gonna kill me with all her whee!'

Me: Argh. Horrible man!

DH: Hahaha. We need to sleep because there's too much tomorrow. Such a shame.

Me: Why?

DH: New bed coming. Last night on this one. It's our last chance to try to finish breaking it.

Me: Argh! Horrible man! You dare! I will get you!

DH: I know. I dare a lot of things. Like this...

It devolved into smoochies and a promise/threat for more shenanigans later. Because we really must sleep.

But yeah. Totally stuffing my head under a pillow now. Yay. :D

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(Excerpt from this post.)

I believe people are mind, body, heart and soul. I call those the health buckets. Mental health, physical health, emotional health, and spiritual health. Together they make the metabucket person -- the whole person and their whole well being.

At my house it is not unusual to ask for bucket checks. We even teach this to the kid.

She rolls her eyes and thinks I'm insane but that's fine. When she's older I'll suddenly be genius again. :)

And I've had to teach people in my real life the bucket thing. It helps break something down to bite size sometimes... even to oneself when doing some soul searching.

My DH was NOT great at articulation at the start. It isn't so much that he cannot articulate. It is that he comes from a background where articulation put you in the dog house. It took him a while to believe and then do and then see that I am different.

YES, if you tell me something I do not like to hear I may have a minor side GRRR moment. I still welcome the news. No, you are not in the dog house. I just need to steam valve on the side for a moment before I can return to this thing and address it like a sane person. I go ballistic at information withheld. I do not go ballistic at information given that I don't love to hear. There IS a difference.

He often would say "I don't know." To hem and haw and hedge his bets. He doesn't do that any more and he's much more up front but sometimes he gets stuck. To this day it still helps when he goes "I don't know" to ask him for his buckets.

"Alright. You do not know the metabucket answer from all your health buckets combined. Gimme the buckets separate then. How are you on this ...

  • In your BODY? Anything tense? Hurting? Stomach butterflies? Relaxed?
  • In your MIND? Mind racing and won't shut up? Mind stuck or slow as molasses?
  • In your HEART? Is it dark in there? Heavy? Sweetness and light?
  • In your SOUL? Hang time at the forge? Soaring? Where is spirit?

The other day I asked him on a minor issue -- "Hey, where you at? Can I go out to coffee with a friend?"

He goes "I don't know."

I sigh and go "Gimme buckets."

He thinks. Then answers slowly.

"Well... my body is tired. It was a long day at work. I did not sleep well last night. My mind heart is full and content. My brain is fried. I have crazy clients. You would not even believe! My soul? Um. My soul is peaceful. Content?"

I respond "So I'm getting 2 counts of tired, and 2 neutrals. So you really ought to nap and skip parenting duty tonight. And I really ought to schedule my date with the gals for later in the week so you have a chance to rest. Is that the ball park we are in?"

He blinks. "Um... yah?"

"Great! You get nap, I get to carry on and fix my calendar. Thanks!"

And I go off to do my thing cheerfully. And he gets to nap cheerfully. And nobody has any cows. All well with the world.

But seriously he used to make me CRAZY with the "I don't know" thing. It is fine not to know and need extra time to sort that out. If that is TRUE.

But do not default there because you wish to avoid having to think or do the work required to give me my right to clear communication. Do not avoid, shirk, or obfuscate. Just SPIT IT OUT. So I can know where we stand and I can move on to dealing with whatever it is on my end of the equation.

And I have a drop dead date -- because if I need to move a thing forward and make a decision and your indecision is holding me up? Then I need to move without taking your information on board then. And you cannot get mad at me for doing that because YOU declined to exercise your right/opportunity to get your information ON BOARD.

Everyone holds their own bag!

Maybe try the technique of asking him for his buckets separately rather than the Meta-bucket of all things combined in one answer? Get a better temperature check in bite sizes?


I've been lucky enough to experience body orgasms flying solo or in partnered sex. I've been lucky enough to have heartgasms and headgasms with lovers and friends. A few times I've been lucky enough to have me a soulgasm. Sometimes even 2 out of the 4. Or 3 out the four.

But in that Metabucket place? All areas at once? The Metagasm 4 out of 4 buckets set fire to at once?

Oh, my,my. Oh, HELL, yes!

And that's been with one person -- DH. And it took years to get there. Decades even. But then that is getting to what Old Relationship Energy feels like to me. Some things are earned. And that's a whole other topic.
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