Handing over the keys

J

JacksonCage

New member
Hi.

My wife has been wanting to date another person for years. Over the last few years, she has had some long distance experiences. Meaning, she met up with guys she met a few times a year who lived farther away. All that, I could deal with. I "get" poly people, and want her to have what she wants. I read books, this forum, blogs... so I understand this is a very real need she has.

I, as you might guess, am monogamous.

We've been together 20 years, and always have had great sex, up until this week even.

She is starting to date a guy who lives in our town this week. It's something she really wants. However, this is not for me. I think the best thing is to just stop having sex with her, and let the new guy take over. I just can't imagine having sex with my wife when she just had sex with the guy down the street.

Every so often, I'm good at. Local... no. It'll be torture.

She has made it clear she wants this. However, she also wants me. That said, she's willing to give up our family and 20 years of marriage for this new fling. She's clear.

Any advice from any monogamous people who have taken the strategy of just ending sex with their wives while they start up new relationships?

This will hurt like hell, but she wants what she wants... and also I want her to be happy in life.

I think I need to look out for me, and I just don't think I can do this with her while she's with the new guy.

Anyways... that's a ramble... but any advice would be awesome.
 
Hey Jackson,

That sounds like an awful place you're in. You're obviously already very experienced with polyamory and you sound like you've given this great thought over a long period of time. I'm relatively new to polyamory myself and doubt I'll be able to share any advice you haven't already thought of before.

I wanted to clarify something though. Your wife has had sexual experiences with other people, up to several times a year because of the long distance of it. This new relationship is a game changer to you because it's local? Is it possible that your wife sees him physically once a month or once a week, at least initially, as you acclimatise yourself to the new reality that your wife wants?

My second question is whether you feel your wife realises the difference between "falling in love" and "growing in love" (I clarify my opening post #1 in post #7 further below). I ask merely because I'm surprised that she wants to leave a 20 year relationship for a new beau, considering that you've demonstrated a solid ability to allow her to experience new men whilst this new beau of hers has demonstrated no such ability - if she goes off with this new man whom she knows less well than you, perhaps he won't be able to handle polyamory and they then experience a break up one or two years down the line because of it. But she knows you can handle polyamory. It just seemed strange to me. She's dated enough to know there is no magic "one and only" (which is an illusion I and others like myself who have only rarely dated suffer from), but why is this man so different from the others and why is she willing to give up a 20 year marriage for what may only be a short fling? How strong does she feel your marriage is?

Which leads me to my final thought. I started a thread recently on a relationship vulnerabilities quiz and was wondering if you would consider trying it with your wife and letting me know what you and your wife think of the quiz.

Hang in there, Jackson.
Kind regards,
Shaya.
 
You've started poly with training wheels. These long distance things. Now it's become local and your wife is happy and NOW you're calling it quits? After just one week?? Why not give it some more time?

You could request she only see him once a week or even less, to start. You could request plenty of quality time with her. You could request she tamp down her NRE and not gush about her new person and their dates.

You could avoid sex with her for 24 hours or longer, after she's seen her OSO, if that makes you more comfortable.

I feel bad you're going to throw in the towel after 20 years, and some years of training wheels. But maybe you feel you're not ready to take off the training wheels? And will never be? Myabe you don't want to ride the bike at all, after all the training time?

Can't there be a transition phase?
 
It's sad and I am sure, extremely painful she is willing to end her relationship with you after only seeing the bright new shiny guy for one week! That is her NRE talking. She's awash in hormones. Many experienced poly people understand NRE and know how to see over the rosy colored glasses the hormones deliver to our brains, and see that reality still exists.

You may not be able to convince her that her new guy is NOT perfect. But time always washes NRE away. The new and shiny becomes the old tried and true, or often, a complete asshat douche.
 
Magdlyn said:
You've started poly with training wheels. These long distance things. Now it's become local and your wife is happy and NOW you're calling it quits? After just one week?? Why not give it some more time?

You could request she only see him once a week or even less, to start. You could request plenty of quality time with her. You could request she tamp down her NRE and not gush about her new person and their dates.

You could avoid sex with her for 24 hours or longer, after she's seen her OSO, if that makes you more comfortable.

I feel bad you're going to throw in the towel after 20 years, and some years of training wheels. But maybe you feel you're not ready to take off the training wheels? And will never be? Myabe you don't want to ride the bike at all, after all the training time?

Can't there be a transition phase?
Click to expand...


Are you trying to be condescending and insulting with poly training wheels ???


It's funny you look at this as he's throwing away a 20 yr marriage.

He needs to try harder ....he needs to compromise. He needs to realize it's just NRE talking and not really how she feels. ARE YOU SERIOUS ? Why ?

Couldn't this be a classic case of someone pushing somebody too far. Not really understanding were the breakpoint is. Maybe there 20 yr history is her pushing and bullying and usually getting what she wants and it's become habit. The NRE in her head thought he'll put up a fuss and then he'll back down or get use to it and everything will be fine in a month or 2.

Your suggestion is take the gut punching, the implied insult to a 20 marriage /family for 6 to 18 months to see on the other side of that if the guys an asshat douche or not? Gitmo sounds more fun / less painful. My question is what's in this for him....yes I know the standard poly answer a happy wife. But let's dig a little deeper. What about her is so special to endure this ???



I suggest you do what ever you need to do to protect yourself mentally and emotionally.


To add to the point above during my wife's foray into poly I didn't see our life or family time as being neutral or positive as a result of being involved with her BF but actually negative on many levels. ( read about poly hell) I was told the very same thing " hang on it's the NRE " my response then as now is who cares everything that's happening is based on a decision. She / they decided to place one over the other. Your wife is deciding to place a one week fling over a 20 yr marriage.

Anyway there came a point in which I suggested I didn't want to be the " primary " anymore. To back up a second part of the sales job was assuring me that our marriage / family was number 1 and that " nothing " would change.
WRONG. Sales hype, being naive or combo or both but wrong none the less.
I thought the perfect fix for this would let someone else cover her overdrafts take care of her car maintence, all the hundreds of other things I was being call upon to do in the trench 24/7. Let someone else do that and I'll be once or twice a week fun date guy that gets to enjoy hot uninterrupted sex. Sadly that never happened and to be honest after a point I wasn't really interested in having sex with her ....and funny she was insulted by that. I think it was a case of me spitting on her generosity or something.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Hey Jackson,

In reading what Magdlyn and DingedHeart have written, I think both are touching on the point that the NRE your wife is experiencing comes across as surprisingly out of proportion. She's not new to dating. Why is the NRE this time so disruptive?

My personal opinion is that if you have been managing your jealousy for years so that it doesn't have a negative impact on your relationship, then she should be managing her NRE so that it doesn't have a negative impact too. Being polyamorous isn't just about being able to love multiple people simultaneously. In my opinion, being polyamorous also involves being able to maintain your current relationships as you pick up a new one, otherwise it's serial monogamy.

But the crux of the question remains, why is this relationship a game changer for you? What's different about her NRE this time? Are there ways to resolve this?

Hang in there, Jackson,
Shaya.
 
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I am sorry you deal in this. :(

This will hurt like hell, but she wants what she wants... and also I want her to be happy in life.
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What do you want to be happy in life?

I think I need to look out for me, and I just don't think I can do this with her while she's with the new guy
Click to expand...

Well, your body is yours. How you share it is up to you.

If you no longer want to be wife's lover while she's seeing this BF, you do not have to be.

The bigger question is... can you stay married and be happy/thrive under these conditions?

Galagirl
 
GalaGirl said:
I am sorry you deal in this. :(



What do you want to be happy in life?



Well, your body is yours. How you share it is up to you.

If you no longer want to be wife's lover while she's seeing this BF, you do not have to be.

The bigger question is... can you stay married and be happy/thrive under these conditions?

Galagirl
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Please read what Gala Girl wrote again.

It appears your wife has been having other lovers out of town and despite you not being thrilled with it you have "tolerated" it and sucked it up.

Now, as usual, the next want is local men. And I would not listen to the crap about the NRE petering out. if it does there will be another local man since she has now pushed you into this.

And your reaction is she gets whatever she wants to be happy.??/ What about you????

is there something written in stone that says you have to go along with this????

It's one thing i guess to have her fly off to meet lovers elsewhere, but now you who claim to be mono plan to sit there and abstain from sex in order to give her her way.

Really????
 
Thank you everyone for your time and thoughtful replies.

You all certainly give me a lot to ponder...especially Gala Girl.

I like the "one day a week" idea. I was shying away from it, as any past boundaries made with other lovers were always broken. So, I lack trust in boundaries, as the heart and body are just going to do what they want anyways. However, perhaps a "timing" boundary might work... at least for a month or so. It's a start.

People want their freedom, and they are eventually just going to do what they want to do. Not a bad thing, just life. I'm so dedicated to my family, that I usually just do what keeps us together, even if it means I suffer. NOW...this is NOT a healthy thing I do... just something I obviously need to work on.

I'll keep you posted how it goes.
 
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I'm so dedicated to my family, that I usually just do what keeps us together, even if it means I suffer. NOW...this is NOT a healthy thing I do... just something I obviously need to work on.
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To me that sounds like you are so dedicated to keeping things together and not changing things, that you just do whatever to keep it together even if it hurts you.

Not so much what is best/healthy for all the family members. You are part of the family. If you are doing things that hurt you... how's that show dedication to what is best/healthy for all the family members? :confused:

Sometimes what is best/healthy for the family members is to STOP doing stuff that feels wrong/unnatural. Stop doing the hurtful things. Still gonna be family, but do not have to be a nuclear family/married family/whatever the current shape is. It's ok to allow the shape to change so it is a better functioning, healthier family for ALL the family members.

Glad you see it is not healthy to be so selfless. In the continuum of

<-- selfish ---- self full ---- selfless-->​

the tilted ends of the see-saw are on the ends.

selfish = memememe. Everything is about me. Forget other people's needs.

selfless = themthemthem. Everything is about. Forget about my needs.​

The more balanced place is in the middle.


self full = I attend to my own needs first. So I do not burn out, spread myself too thin. So I can run from a full tank of gas. Then I can gift my help to other people in meeting their reasonable and rational requests joyfully. (As opposed to it coming out of your hide.)​

You have to put your own oxygen mask on first. That is not selfish. That is NECESSARY.

I think you could sort things in order.

  • Am I a healthy person? Can I offer myself to anyone as a healthy, solid partner right now? Or do I need to do some work first before taking on new stuff?
  • What do I want/need to be happy/thrive in marriage?
  • Does that include wanting to be in a poly thing at all? If no, stop. If yes...
    • Do I want to be in a poly thing with these people?
    • In what way? Do I want to be in a local poly thing, or only LDR things? Something else?
    • Does my idea of "doing poly" match the other people's? Or do we want all different things so best not to go there together?

I like the "one day a week" idea. I was shying away from it, as any past boundaries made with other lovers were always broken. So, I lack trust in boundaries, as the heart and body are just going to do what they want anyways. However, perhaps a "timing" boundary might work... at least for a month or so. It's a start.
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To me you are talking about "agreements" and "I don't trust her at her Word."

"Boundaries" are things you set up for yourself for YOU respect and obey. Not for other people.

If I have a personal boundary of "I don't lend my things to people who break my stuff" and I let you borrow my lawn mower and you break it? And you do not apologize? Do not offer to make amends by repairing/replacing the mower? Do not promise to be more careful with my things in future? And then you come asking to borrow my vacuum?

I am going to obey my personal boundary and tell you NO. Because I don't lend my things to people who break my stuff. That boundary is not there for you to respect or obey. It is for ME to respect and obey. To help keep ME safe from new shenanigans. If you have shown me you are a careless person? I'm just not up for sharing my things with you.

So I am going to ask you... What are your personal boundaries around broken agreements?

For me... lies are 1 strike I am out. So many other things are based on a person's Word. If a person is a chronic liar I cannot build any agreements there with them. I cannot believe they enter into agreements with me in good faith. Experiencing one big lying blow up is enough for me. I'm not going to trust them at their Word any more.

Other stuff is 3 strikes I am out. Because I know that it sometimes takes a few tries to master a new behavior. Good intentions count for something and people sometimes need more chances. If I see honest effort and some progress, I'm willing to stick it out some. But I'm not sitting around with the same issue for 30, 300, 3000 "second chances." There comes a point where its best to accept it's not gonna fly here. They might be willing to change behavior that dings me, but not actually ABLE. So I'm going to get myself out of the line of fire so I can be free from dings in future. I don't like going around in circles doing "same old song, different day." If I don't like the ride, I'm not going to buy another ticket for the merry-go-round.

Now I'm going to ask you something else.

  • Has she apologized for breaking previous agreements/damaging trust? Promised new behavior going forward?
  • Has trust been repaired enough to where you are willing to try a small risk? Try trusting her at her Word with a "timing agreement?"
  • If this gets broken, what is the consequence that YOU can do?

If you haven't repaired trust enough to enter into new agreements in good faith? It's ok to vote "no confidence."

People want their freedom, and they are eventually just going to do what they want to do eventually. I think people SHOULD have their freedom, it's just that I'm not sure how much this all works for me personally. All good things to think about.
Click to expand...

There is freedom TO do things. And there is also freedom FROM things.

What freedoms are you wanting for yourself in this situation?

Sorting that stuff out for yourself could help you sort out the bullet list questions above.

Your situation sounds like it has baggage. So for right now? Could do things because they are "joyous yes" for you. Anything less than a "joyous yes" is a "working no." Strict personal standards.


"Hell no" is a working no.
"Not sure" is a working no.
"I could take it or leave it" is a working no.
"Yes, but only if...." is a working no.
----------------------------------------
"Hell, yes! Glad to! Enthusiastically!" is the only yes.
​

Later when you are stronger and on better foundations, you might consider moving where you draw the line. Other conditions might count as "a good enough yes" for you to be wiling to jump in at THAT point in time. But right now? When you are hurting/uncertain?

I suggest you place your personal standard at "joyous yes" only. Seek to TAKE AWAY from your burdens. Not ADD.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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"What freedoms are you wanting for yourself in this situation?"

Oh boy... that's a lot to think about. I just have NO idea, but it's a direction. 20 years of doing everything for my wife and kids leads me to a life where I have never considered myself. I know you're right... just hard to know where to begin.

Thank you.
 
It's been "Her way or the highway" for long enough.

Maybe she's thrown down the gauntlet of running off with him just to get you to capitulate, knowing you will, in the end, give her what she wants. I imagine she would be VERY surprised if you tell her that if she wants to throw away your marriage for a weeks-long dalliance, then she can be your guest.

You really do deserve better. She is showing no regard towards your feelings and needs whatsoever. Even if she does agree to no longer see him, I would strongly recommend that you go to counseling. You seem as if your sense of self has been completely eroded.
 
20 years of doing everything for my wife and kids leads me to a life where I have never considered myself. I know you're right... just hard to know where to begin.
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I'm sorry that over the years you lost touch with who you are at core, how to do your own self care, and that you chose to do for everyone else at your expense. Not balanced living.

It's also not a good model for your kids to grow up to emulate. I can imagine you don't want them growing up doing same and burning themselves out. :(

You could start with saying "No, not yet" more around the house.

I'll give you an example. Mornings here are NUTS. Everyone wants mom for something. Braid my hair, where is my breakfast, where are my socks.

I say no.

"Nope. Willing, but not able yet. I have to do MY basics first and attend to my teeth, my potty, my coffee. Your stuff? That is BONUS stuff to me. They are YOUR basics... so you attend to it first. See how far you can get with it on your own. I believe you can handle it. Maybe think about putting your stuff out the night before.

I am going to do my basics and you do yours as far as you can. THEN I will come see what I can help you with if there's stuff left still."

You put your OWN oxygen mask on first before you try to help other people. It is NECESSARY.

One of the kids recently told me someone asked kid for math help. Kid replied "I see you want my help. Math class is time for me to do MY work. So no. Not right now. I have to do my own work first. I can help you at lunch. See me then if you still want my help. Or if you need it now, ask someone else who can do it now."

I told kid I was proud of them for knowing how to do "basics before bonus." Kid wasn't mean about it or anything. Just stating kid's "willing and able."

You could start there. Do less stuff for people. Not because you don't love them or don't care about them. But because you have to care about you too. Do stuff in ORDER rather than cart before horse. If everyone did "Basics before bonus" then EVERYONE gets seen to. Rather than everything coming out of your hide all the time.

As for the marriage... wife wants to be with you both. So she's willing. She's got some ABLE stuff to clean up on her end. Like not making agreements she cannot keep and becoming more a person of her Word.

Are you willing to local poly? Because if you just don't want to be doing it? Not a joyous yes? Stop participating. You are in charge of your consent to participate in things.

If you ARE willing... are you also able or can become able with some work? Because if you are just not able, accept it. Spare yourself the grief. I might be willing to fly, but I know am not able. So I don't go jumping off my roof flapping my arms. YKWIM?

If you are not used to thinking about yourself? Not used to doing introspection? Don't really know yourself or your current values? Have a hard time articulating? You might want to see a counselor to help you learn to articulate/communicate and sort your thoughts out.

In the meanwhile at home? Basics before bonus. Start there.

Galagirl
 
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Hi Jackson,

Galagirl seems to have helped reframe the perspective into something clearer. It sounds really helpful and im glad you seem to be finding it useful. I know you have a dozen questions floating around that probably need answered. One thing that I thought might help with these answers would be a look into love attachment styles. You may already be aware of this concept, for which I'll apologise then for the essay below and I'll probably wish i hadn't spent all this time writing it. ;)

Love attachment styles is a theory of the different ways in which we, as adults, seek to display our love for one another based on the way we were brought up interpreting what love should be like. I'm not aiming to go all mumbo jumbo psychology magic on you or your wife, because I'm not a psychologist, but from the examples in books I've read on love attachment styles, it seems possible that either you or your wife may have spent part of your childhood looking after others. Such selfless acts in childhood, sometimes (but not always) give rise to definitions of love in adulthood that can be problematic. Examples may include an only child of bickering parents who would spend nights asleep in Mum's bed, comforting mum due to mother's worries or stress. Such a child would have their concept of love reinforced with their mother perhaps saying things like, "I love you so much. You're such a good son or daughter." A child should be comforted by their mother - not the other way around - this childhood can set up an unrealistic expectation of love. Other examples may include an oldest sibling in a poor or violent family who would make it their responsibility to shelter their siblings from harm. This can sometimes set up the expectation that receiving love is predicated on first being able to give love or that giving is a duty. Examples like these, due to their constant reinforcement in childhood, can persist in us as adults, defining what love means for us. In examples like the ones I've outlined, it is possible that the child continues in adulthood to "give" and "support" in love because that's what love is to them. It's also possible an adult with such a childhood continually seeks affection, connection and love from others because despite their heroic actions in childhood, these actions actually failed to gain the true love of their parents in the first example (a disproportionate love was given rather than gained from mother) and in the second, being nice to others and earning their validation may give the adult meaning in life.

I'd caution against listening too closely to me though, Jackson, since I have no training in psychology. Honestly, you could just have spent 2 minutes reading utter nonsense and i could have spent 10 minutes writing garbage. I mean, I'm sure what I wrote applies for some people, but I have no idea if it applies to you or your wife. However, if you feel this kind of stuff may be useful, the book "attached" has been recommended by others and may be an interesting read.

I hope things improve for you and your wife.

Best wishes,
Shaya
 
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Hi JacksonCage,

I'm sorry you find yourself in a situation that robs you of your happiness. Based on your posts so far, you are going to stop having sex with your wife, but you also aren't going to divorce. Is that right? and you do not want to look for an additional partner because you are strictly monogamous. Is that right? If it is, then I have to conclude you are going to go celibate. That seems like a rather unhappy thought.

I don't suppose you and your wife could somehow compromise? Surely she'd be willing to do something to make things easier on you.

Hang in there ...
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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