Help me find the right words

TruckerPete

New member
I thought I was over NRE with my boyfriend of two months (Mr. A), but after reading other posts and reflecting on our relationship, I know that I'm only over the giddy-make-me-feel-sick part, and that we are still in a honeymoon phase, even if its form is changing.

Mr. A and Indigo are getting to know each other and it's going well. Indigo and I had Mr. A over for dinner last week, and the three of us ended up sharing laughs at a comedy roast, and snuggling in a big happy pile on our couch. (The boys didn't snuggle, but nobody's perfect, I suppose. :p)

Indigo was feeling comfortable enough to offer me a sleep over at Mr. A's AND come get me at 8:30 on Sunday morning when Mr. A had to work and Indigo could've been sleeping. (I don't have a key to Mr. A's yet, and he lives 20 minutes across town. The pickup was very generous of Indigo, especially when he could've been sleeping!)

So things are going well for the most part.

However, last night I spoke to Mr. A on the phone because I hadn't talked to him all day. (He works long hours.) I even felt comfortable enough to leave the bedroom door open, that Indigo wouldn't be upset by our conversation. It was a great talk with lots of joking and laughing. We chatted for half an hour or so, and then I hung up and went downstairs to be with Indigo.

Indigo looked a bit upset, so I asked what was wrong. He asked if he makes me happy.

Ah crap.

The issue is twofold. One is that Indigo doesn't hear as much positive from me as he should. This is a recognized problem by me, and I am working to correct it. I have a tendancy to pick on little things, as well as not always voice/show appreciation when I'm feeling it. The showing part is important. A hug goes further with Indigo than a thank you, but I am the opposite.

So this part is being worked on.

The second part is trickier. Indigo heard the laughter of my conversation with Mr. A. We don't laugh for this long anymore. But I know it's only because we already know each other's jokes. It was weird timing for him to be bothered by this, because I had been mentally noting that we do still make each other laugh deep, full laughs, and appreciating this especially over the last week. Though perhaps not such strange timing, since I am experiencing "new laughter" with Mr. A and so my attention was drawn to these moments with Indigo? An ex once told me that we'd break up when I stopped laughing at his jokes. This turned out to be true. So these laughs are something I do watch for and note.

I remember laughing like this with Indigo in the beginning of our relationship. He says he does not. Granted, we talked a lot on MSN in the beginning of our relationship, where he would not have been able to hear my laughter, but we also had dates like real people and laughed then. I think his memory is clouded by my obvious laughter with Mr. A.

I have said everything that I've posted here to Indigo, but he's still hurting. Please help me reassure him that just because we laugh less frequently than Mr. A and I (currently) do together, doesn't mean he doesn't make me happy. I am still in NRE, and Mr. A is new. Our jokes are new. There are more new ones to make.

Indigo, I love you deeply. Being able to make each other laugh, REALLY laugh, after 2 1/2 years is no small feat. I can't wait to really laugh with you in 20 years.
 
Tickle him.

I don't think the main thing is to explain the laughter. That'll just make it stop altogether. The important thing is to explain how much you love Indigo, and it sounds like this needs to be accompanied by you paying some rapt attention to him.

Reading your post, it sounds like Indigo is really trying to give you everything you need to be happy and may feel that his strenuous efforts to show you how much he cares are being rewarded by you giving that good energy back to Mr. A and not Indigo.

Of course the way you and Indigo are navigating the situation is a more somber and studied process than between you and Mr.A, because you have more history and maybe more tendency to predict each others behavior.

Laughter is unpredictable. It is harder to fake a laugh than an orgasm, in my opinion. Your relationship with Mr. A is full of unpredictability at this point, and it's exciting and gets your gut churning and your giggles going.

Do something unpredictably wonderful for your Indigo, something that's new and exciting. Ply him with food and wine. I've been with my Catfish for 6 years and am still finding ways to surprise him , and vice versa. The laughter will come when you're not worrying about it, when you're in the moment.

Whenever I see discussions on here about NRE, I feel like the term is a little destructive. I feel like over the years, people and the world change at such a high rate of speed that I have to constantly redefine my relationships, and I am always aware that each day is a decision for both Catfish and I to stay and do this. Not taking that for granted helps me know how to tickle my man's fancy. Sometimes I cheat by actually tickling him. Actually, a lot. :)

Good luck, I wish you laughter with both of your sweeties.
 
Thank you for your insightful response, Rarechild.

I don't think the main thing is to explain the laughter. That'll just make it stop altogether. The important thing is to explain how much you love Indigo, and it sounds like this needs to be accompanied by you paying some rapt attention to him.

Perhaps, explain was the wrong word? Or maybe not. Actions speak louder than words, so more attention to SHOW how I feel rather than TELLING him how I feel would be exactly right.

Reading your post, it sounds like Indigo is really trying to give you everything you need to be happy and may feel that his strenuous efforts to show you how much he cares are being rewarded by you giving that good energy back to Mr. A and not Indigo.

This is true. It was a problem at the beginning, and may still be. I will check in with Indigo.

Of course the way you and Indigo are navigating the situation is a more somber and studied process than between you and Mr.A, because you have more history and maybe more tendency to predict each others behavior.

Would you mind clarifying this part?

The laughter will come when you're not worrying about it, when you're in the moment.

Oh, I'm not worrying about the laughter ... I love how we are together! When I say I've been paying attention to it lately, I meant that I would notice after a great laugh, "Oh hey, that was really nice. I'm happy we still have those!"

I am always aware that each day is a decision for both Catfish and I to stay and do this. Not taking that for granted helps me know how to tickle my man's fancy. Sometimes I cheat by actually tickling him. Actually, a lot. :)

We're currently wedding planning, so I am definitely aware that each day is a choice! :D But in all seriousness, I do understand what you mean.

Unfortunately, I can't "cheat" with Indigo. Tickling may make him giggle, but it also gives him painful hiccups and he gets VERY grumpy. :eek:

Again, I have the revelation that I need to SHOW more than SAY. In most things, I appreciate words more than actions, and need to move away from that in order to properly communicate the emotions I feel for Indigo. For example, he made me a yummy breakfast this morning. Normally, I would thank him for this. (And mean it!) But remembering what I'd just posted I gave him a biiiiig hug instead. The smile on his face was wonderful! It feels a bit contrived to have to THINK to give him a hug or some other gesture instead of using words, (which mean so much more to me), but if I want him to understand how I feel, I need to do it in his "language".
 
Normally, I would thank him for this. (And mean it!) But remembering what I'd just posted I gave him a biiiiig hug instead. The smile on his face was wonderful! It feels a bit contrived to have to THINK to give him a hug or some other gesture instead of using words, (which mean so much more to me), but if I want him to understand how I feel, I need to do it in his "language".

You are just like me. I'm really crap at showing how I feel (and saying it too, sometimes :eek: ) and I have to remember that my partner gets so much from a hug and a kiss. I'm not really adding any advice, just that I'm the same. I think describing it as thanking him in his own 'language' is a great way to explain it. :)
 
You are just like me. I'm really crap at showing how I feel (and saying it too, sometimes :eek: ) and I have to remember that my partner gets so much from a hug and a kiss. I'm not really adding any advice, just that I'm the same. I think describing it as thanking him in his own 'language' is a great way to explain it. :)

No, that's helpful in itself, to not feel like a freak! :p

Does it become more ... natural? It felt so wrong this morning. I mean, I knew he would feel the hug in the same way that I felt the thank you, but it felt like I was being manipulative or something.

Quite frankly, it's a big old trigger for a couple of painful things from my past.

*sigh* More self work ...
 
No, that's helpful in itself, to not feel like a freak! :p

Does it become more ... natural? It felt so wrong this morning. I mean, I knew he would feel the hug in the same way that I felt the thank you, but it felt like I was being manipulative or something.

Quite frankly, it's a big old trigger for a couple of painful things from my past.

*sigh* More self work ...


It does get easier. My personal space boundary used to be about 3 miles across, but I'm getting better. I've really worked on making this smaller and being more physical (not with everyone, I'm happy with a generous personal space boundary for everyone except a trusted few) with my partner. And...it gets easier. I now find it comes naturally most of the time, and I enjoy it more too :)

I've been through some sh*t myself (I'm not funny about personal space for nothing!) so if you want to chat/hear my experiences just ask :)
 
But remembering what I'd just posted I gave him a biiiiig hug instead. The smile on his face was wonderful! It feels a bit contrived to have to THINK to give him a hug or some other gesture instead of using words, (which mean so much more to me), but if I want him to understand how I feel, I need to do it in his "language".

Does it become more ... natural? It felt so wrong this morning. I mean, I knew he would feel the hug in the same way that I felt the thank you, but it felt like I was being manipulative or something.
Sounds perfect...you *are* manipulating...yourself...and you should be.
You're making concious changes to your behavior...to make yourself understood in his language instead of yours. Yes, that will take some concious effort for a while.
And you got the reward...a big wonderful smile...this is like classical conditioning at it's finest. :) I don't see how there'd be anything devious about trying to change your own behavior or communicate better.
Eventually it'll become just the natural way you communicate with him...and you won't have to think about it. Give it time.
 
Sounds perfect...you *are* manipulating...yourself...and you should be.
[...]
And you got the reward...a big wonderful smile...this is like classical conditioning at it's finest. :) I don't see how there'd be anything devious about trying to change your own behavior or communicate better.
Eventually it'll become just the natural way you communicate with him...and you won't have to think about it. Give it time.

Ring a bell and bring on the manipulation!
 
Just don't get confused and drool on Indigo every time you go to hug him :D

Who says I don't???

Also, he has been warned to carry a treat bag with him at all times. I like cheese, but fear it will get warm and yucky. Chocolate will melt. The dogs'/cats' liver treats don't taste good at all. Hrm. DECISIONS!

Ooh. Beef jerky. Are you listening, sweetie?

If it's possible to hijack your own thread, I think I am doing it now. :D
 
Oh, I so empathize with Indigo. I look at Easy with Asha, and how happy he is when he's with her, how carefree he looks and relaxed, and I think, "Wow, I can't give him that. We have children, we have bills, I have to take care of real life, and I don't make him smile like that. What am I doing here? I don't make him happy. I'm ruining his life and I ought to just let him go so that he can be happy."

I'll be honest, I'm struggling with this right now, too. I think the root of our current problem is that Easy forgets how much touch means to me. He will say "I love you" ten times in a five minute conversation but completely forget to touch me all day. If you're worried about hugging being manipulative, I can assure you that when Easy says he loves me so much, it feels like manipulation to me, but touch is honest. I don't touch people I don't want to be around. I don't touch a lot of people, period. If I go willingly into a hug, you are obviously important to me. So when Easy says he loves me over and over, I hear, "I want you to do something for me" but when he touches me, it feels like, "I like having you around."

If this sounds like Indigo, then the best thing you can do for him is to make sure that you touch him, even if you just brush across him shoulders as you pass by, but much better if you make sure that there's a fair amount of snuggling. You are not manipulating! You're making him feel better. Gah. I hope I managed to stay on topic.
 
Gary Chapman discusses this sort of thing in his book "The Five Love Languages". How we experience "love" can vary from person to person, just as you've noted. Rather than "manipulation" I look at it in terms of giving a "gift" to someone. When I select a gift for someone else, I get them something I know they want....something that has meaning for them. It's not necessarily something I'd want or something that has meaning for me. So, we give our lovers a "gift" when we express our love for them in a way that has meaning for them. For me, manipulation would be if I gave someone a gift I knew they'd like because I wanted/expected something from them in return.
 
Clarifying

Me-Of course the way you and Indigo are navigating the situation is a more somber and studied process than between you and Mr.A, because you have more history and maybe more tendency to predict each others behavior.
TruckerPete-Would you mind clarifying this part?

Tp- I don't know why I said somber. Weird word. I was thinking about laughter and spontaneity and how it's harder to break routines that have had time to develop. I was thinking about how easy it is to have fun with someone who isn't aware of all your ups and downs, where there isn't a lot of history, just living in the moment. The connection you have with a new person is all possibility, whereas a connection that has developed through time is full of all kinds of delicate information that is triggered not only in a tough spot, but in the everyday.

Anyway, I hope you and Indigo can get a good laugh at my scattered thinking.
 
Tp- I don't know why I said somber. Weird word. I was thinking about laughter and spontaneity and how it's harder to break routines that have had time to develop. I was thinking about how easy it is to have fun with someone who isn't aware of all your ups and downs, where there isn't a lot of history, just living in the moment. The connection you have with a new person is all possibility, whereas a connection that has developed through time is full of all kinds of delicate information that is triggered not only in a tough spot, but in the everyday.

Anyway, I hope you and Indigo can get a good laugh at my scattered thinking.

Okay, that makes MUCH more sense! Thank you! :D

LD - You did make help and hearing that others are similar to Indigo is reassuring. Also, I liked your idea about scheduled cuddle time in another post. Makes sense, even if it feels forced at first.

DFS - I have heard reference to this book. I will have to look it up ... What are the other three languages, if you know off the top of your head?
 
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http://www.5lovelanguages.com/learn-the-languages/the-five-love-languages/

Words of Affirmation
Actions don’t always speak louder than words. If this is your love language, unsolicited compliments mean the world to you. Hearing the words, “I love you,” are important—hearing the reasons behind that love sends your spirits skyward. Insults can leave you shattered and are not easily forgotten.
Quality Time
In the vernacular of Quality Time, nothing says, “I love you,” like full, undivided attention. Being there for this type of person is critical, but really being there—with the TV off, fork and knife down, and all chores and tasks on standby—makes your significant other feel truly special and loved. Distractions, postponed dates, or the failure to listen can be especially hurtful.
Receiving Gifts
Don’t mistake this love language for materialism; the receiver of gifts thrives on the love, thoughtfulness, and effort behind the gift. If you speak this language, the perfect gift or gesture shows that you are known, you are cared for, and you are prized above whatever was sacrificed to bring the gift to you. A missed birthday, anniversary, or a hasty, thoughtless gift would be disastrous—so would the absence of everyday gestures.
Acts of Service
Can vacuuming the floors really be an expression of love? Absolutely! Anything you do to ease the burden of responsibilities weighing on an “Acts of Service” person will speak volumes. The words he or she most want to hear: “Let me do that for you.” Laziness, broken commitments, and making more work for them tell speakers of this language their feelings don’t matter.
Physical Touch
This language isn’t all about the bedroom. A person whose primary language is Physical Touch is, not surprisingly, very touchy. Hugs, pats on the back, holding hands, and thoughtful touches on the arm, shoulder, or face—they can all be ways to show excitement, concern, care, and love. Physical presence and accessibility are crucial, while neglect or abuse can be unforgivable and destructive.
 
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So, building on the previous post, for example, my love language is physical touch. As a matter of fact, I scored so high in this one that I didn't have a secondary. After much struggling, Easy learned that no matter how furious I am with him, if he can sneak his hand somewhere where there is exposed skin, I start calming down. It's not manipulative--I don't want to be that angry or upset. He's helping me, and it makes me feel better.

He, on the other hand, is an Acts of Service guy. It used to be that, in the middle of a fight, he'd pop up and leave the room. Turned out he was doing the dishes to show he loved me, and he never understood why I didn't think this was fabulous (until we read the book) and I never understood how he could just walk out when we were trying to hash through things.

Even though the book has a bit of a religious bent, I think it's well worth reading, and it's a quick read. We struggled for years and years, ripping our hair out in frustration because we couldn't figure out how to really communicate with each other.
 
Even though the book has a bit of a religious bent, I think it's well worth reading, and it's a quick read. We struggled for years and years, ripping our hair out in frustration because we couldn't figure out how to really communicate with each other.

I'm with you on this one Lemondrop. I could do without the religious bent, but I think the information is worth overlooking that aspect if it doesn't match one's personal belief system.
 
dragaonflysky, thanks for bringing up the five love languages... great book. We all three of us read it and use it. My men are touchers and words on affirmation first. I am an acts of service type. It has been really helpful to know this...

Tuckerpete, welcome to a whole lot of endless work.... this kind of thing goes on and on, and so it should. Once I decided not to be surprised and afraid of it, I was able to welcome every time one of my men or Derby had something going on. Now I am unafraid and welcome anything anyone has going on as a result and almost feel lost if there is nothing going on.... just one more step I think..

On the note of laughing, PN and I hadn't laughed for ages and I hadn't realized how much I miss hearing him. He has a great laugh. This past weekend I caught him laughing and all of us laughed together. Nothing like it. The best part was it was about something the boy did and he was laughing too! Feels so good and makes me feel like we are all good when that happens.
 
Tuckerpete, welcome to a whole lot of endless work.... this kind of thing goes on and on, and so it should. Once I decided not to be surprised and afraid of it, I was able to welcome every time one of my men or Derby had something going on. Now I am unafraid and welcome anything anyone has going on as a result and almost feel lost if there is nothing going on.... just one more step I think..

Oh, I have caught on to the endless work part ... Hence my blog title!

We're working through this round of things. It's positive, but that doesn't make it easy. :eek:
 
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