Hi, not sure if I can do poly

W

weareone

New member
but am interested as I have had 3 men since my divorce. He cheated on me it was awful. I went into recovery over it all. I'm very stable there now so all 3 men since my split are interested in me sexually, also claim to care about me/love me but none of them want to commit in anyway. I love one of them and care a lot for the other 2. I don't really want to be primary to any of them but want equal and honest/truth.

One can't handle poly and hasn't spoken to me since I told him about poly and I would be happy if he found someone else. He is not happy when I am with the other men. So I"m thinking he is kind of out of the picture in a sexual way. I feel a bit sad about that but am okay. He will either pony up and be a friend or just not contact me again. Nothing I can do about it. I do not want to be in an exclusive relationship with him. The man I love is basically a lying cheater and I've always been encouraging him to tell the truth to the other women about how he feels about me but he is so much a people pleaser so much afraid of getting into arguements etc. etc. I'm sort of at a dead end with him. I can't stand hurting other people and I believe strongly in truth and honesty. If I am with him I am hurting whatever current women is trying to be his primary gf and believing his lies or telling herself lies. Denial is very active in his situation. I have gotten jelous and have had to do a lot of work around sex/love addiction, codependent behaviour etc. That is a messy situation so I have only been with him once in the past year but talk to him pretty much weekly, let him kiss me etc. Does anyone have suggestions on how to encourage lying cheaters to go poly?

My most current lover is great. He likes the idea of poly but wants to be with me when I am with the other man, otherwise he says it could be cheating. I don't want to mix my men or even have them meet each other. So I feel a bit lost, isolated and confused. I have never had 3somes or group sex and am not interested at this time in those activities. I want to explore poly but am not sure how to go about it. Any advise would be appreciated. thanks for reading.
 
It is good that you know what you want. That is sometimes the hard part.

I don't think you can really reform someone who consistently cheats. I have known people who cheated and found polyamory and went the honesty route after that. However, I have also met people who will lie and cheat even when there is no reason for it. For example, one woman I dated was also seeing another guy. It did not bother me. One day she told me she broke up with him. However, it turns out that she didn't.

As for your current guy, I think he should realize that not everyone is into threesomes. It is only cheating if lying is involved.
 
weareone said:
He cheated on me it was awful. [...] The man I love is basically a lying cheater and I've always been encouraging him to tell the truth to the other women about how he feels about me but he is so much a people pleaser so much afraid of getting into arguements etc.
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Hmm, a trend?

My most current lover is great. He likes the idea of poly but wants to be with me when I am with the other man, otherwise he says it could be cheating. I don't want to mix my men or even have them meet each other. So I feel a bit lost, isolated and confused. I have never had 3somes or group sex and am not interested at this time in those activities. I want to explore poly but am not sure how to go about it. Any advise would be appreciated. thanks for reading.
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A popular definition of cheating is: having sex outside your relationship which your partner does not consent to. In this case, he is not consenting to you having sex with other guys if it doesn't involve him. So in my opinion, under those circumstances, it would be cheating if you did it anyway, knowing that he does not approve.

As for not wanting your men to meet each other, I have to ask: Why? What are you afraid of? If your boyfriends go out for a beer and become close friends, wouldn't that be a good thing? That's like, the holy grail of poly: two partners who get along and don't fight over you or mind sharing :)
 
oh tough questions scat. I love smart people. I'm not so smart when it comes to men. I was really unconscious when it came to my partners. All my life I was attracted to lying cheating bastards. the drama etc. was exciting but no longer. That is what the recovery was all about. So yes you are right it is a total trend and may not be all recovered out of my system. Thus the comment don't wan't my men to meet each other. New guy is great, solid, non drama. Other guy I still love is bad news, drama, controlling, Sex/love addict for sure, not in recovery. Nobody likes him. They all wonder why I bother with him.

I have found out through reading some Harville Hendrix books that he is my exact imago match. That means he has all the characteristics of my main caregivers. He is capable of injuring me in the exact same way and harville believes we unconsciously search all our lives for someone who can injure us the same way our parents did and then can also help heal us if they are willing. The bad news man is my exact imago match and I can't help but be attracted but he is not willing to help me heal. Just willing to re injure me the same way my parents did. I'm thinking as I continue my healing journey I will be attracted to healthier and healthier men who I will be willing to introduce to each other. Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

I liked it isn't cheating if you are not lying but then scats comment if they don't want me to be with others and I am then it is cheating doesn't matter if I am honest about it or not. So then what do you do? Break up and be alone? casually date? I can see all people must be in agreement otherwise it creates hurt and people pleasing for fear of breaking up. I've never been able to figure out how to get what I want if the other person is not wanting the same thing. It is very confusing because I feel like i should know but I don't. Thank God I have a program to recover my sanity when that type of confusion arises. :)
 
weareone said:
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My most current lover is great. He likes the idea of poly but wants to be with me when I am with the other man, otherwise he says it could be cheating. I don't want to mix my men or even have them meet each other. So I feel a bit lost, isolated and confused.
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I think referring to 'cheating' in this context is inaccurate. Even a twist of manipulation. I feel it would be only 'cheating' if is something you both have agreed on.
Do you have that agreement ? I didn't read that in your writing but maybe I missed it.

Your desire no not engage in 3sums, moresums etc is entirely your choice and should be respected. I will mention however that it can be a useful method to overcome fear and jealousy. There's a good possibility that your lover's desire for that is coming from a couple places. 1> Fantasy-something a bit kinky for some, 2> Fear of the unknown, what's 'happening' between you and another lover that's outside his view.

You might want to at least consider a one time 3sum. And have it understood up front that it will likely be just that - a one time thing. He may feel more secure and comfortable after and if you allow yourself, you may enjoy all the attention and hopefully satisfaction. From there, your lover will have this little movie to play in his head when you are with the other lover. It will be a 'known' vs an 'unknown - which is a lot less scary for most.

Just something to think about.

GS
 
Good points Gs. I hadn't really thought about that. I think I will maybe try it once, maybe in a few years. Not now. It is my issues, my fears. I had a huge fear of intimacy and also of abandonment. I'm pretty much at the stage of finding the courage to feel all my feelings and transmuting them into wisdom, patience, tolerance, compassion. I still find this difficult, this letting go, allowing, all is welcome here stuff. It is slow growing these disciplines for me. I do a lot of avoidance stuff, like getting a man who lives in a different city so I don't have to get too intimate.

I can relate to the story of the women who said she broke up with her other man but didn't. The guy I love did that to me too. The nasty part is I didn't mind as long as he wore condoms but he didn't. Blaaahhh health is really important to me.

I can't really put a time limit on how my growth will go but right now I'm going to spend the whole weekend with my newest good guy and I'm pretty anxiously/excited. First whole romantic weekend in like 15 years I've been invited on. Fear of intimacy and abandonment looming. I'm off to do some good self talk. I'll be fine. I feel secure and loved. It will be so much fun. He won't think I'm crazy. lol I'll tell you how it goes. :)
 
weareone said:
oh tough questions scat.
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Ewww, scat means doodoo :p

New guy is great, solid, non drama. Other guy I still love is bad news, drama, controlling, Sex/love addict for sure, not in recovery. Nobody likes him. They all wonder why I bother with him.
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Besides being attractive, does he have any redeeming qualities? As for them meeting, are you worried your new guy is going to pick up behaviours from your crummy boyfriend? I'm sure there have been bad influences in his life before, and he's managed to avoid them.

I liked it isn't cheating if you are not lying but then scats comment if they don't want me to be with others and I am then it is cheating doesn't matter if I am honest about it or not.
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The analogy I always use is this: You walk in to a store, grab a candy bar, and say to the clerk "I'm going to take this without paying" and the clerk says "no, you're not allowed" and then you take the candy bar without paying for it. It doesn't matter that you told him, the clerk didn't give you permission to have it for free. So it's still stealing.

So then what do you do? Break up and be alone? casually date? I can see all people must be in agreement otherwise it creates hurt and people pleasing for fear of breaking up. I've never been able to figure out how to get what I want if the other person is not wanting the same thing.
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I think the only way to get what you want is to find someone else who wants the same thing. Staying in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs hinders you from finding one that does.
 
oh sorry about ...scat.... just trying to shorten name there. wasn't really thinking lol

""does he have any redeeming qualities? As for them meeting, are you worried your new guy is going to pick up behaviours from your crummy boyfriend? I'm sure there have been bad influences in his life before, and he's managed to avoid them."""

I pick up crummy behaviours from him! lol he's a hard worker plus he is my imago match but no real redeeming qualities beyond that. That imago I try to explain post above basically it is the oh so special craziness from my Dad (manic bipolar crazy like) and my mom (drinking problems) Crummy boyfriend threatens violence on anyone so just no point in them meeting. My x husband is the same way. People would say about my x and his personality type you either totally love him or you hate is guts and it is true. I can guarantee new man would hate my x and crummy man. They are my old attempts at healing myself before my new spiritual awareness started to get integrated into my life.

""""I think the only way to get what you want is to find someone else who wants the same thing. Staying in a relationship that doesn't meet your needs hinders you from finding one that does."""""

Thanks for that, it makes a lot of good sense. Something I've been sorely lacking for most of my life. Bless you. :)
 
SchrodingersCat said:
The analogy I always use is this: You walk in to a store, grab a candy bar, and say to the clerk "I'm going to take this without paying" and the clerk says "no, you're not allowed" and then you take the candy bar without paying for it. It doesn't matter that you told him, the clerk didn't give you permission to have it for free. So it's still stealing.
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I think the analogy doesn't work well because a person does not own another person's sex.

I think a better analogy is playing a game of poker. You start off and agree to the rules (5 card stud) and then play by those rules. You cheat if you break a rule.

In this case, it sounds more like they are negotiating which rules of poker they will play. So it is not cheating until they agree to the rules of the game.
 
Quath said:
I think the analogy doesn't work well because a person does not own another person's sex.

I think a better analogy is playing a game of poker. You start off and agree to the rules (5 card stud) and then play by those rules. You cheat if you break a rule.

In this case, it sounds more like they are negotiating which rules of poker they will play. So it is not cheating until they agree to the rules of the game.
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Hey that's awesome, I'm going to use that from now on. You make a good point about not owning sex, especially another person's. And selling another person's sex is pimping!

But maybe another way to put it is, you sit down to a game of Texas Hold'em, which has a standard set of rules. Unless you both agree part way through to start playing 5 card stud, you have to stick with the rules of Texas Hold'em. If you don't like playing Texas Hold'em and your partner doesn't want to play 5 card stud, you have to either keep playing the same game, or you have to quit playing.
 
Perhaps it would be helpful for you to work on developing healthy relationships in general and not worry about whether you're poly or mono? The advice is often given that you not add a relationship until the current one(s) you have is stable and healthy.

At this point in time it appears to me that your exploration of poly may be more about your ongoing issues with abandonment and intimacy and not so much about being able to love more than one person at a time. If you have a sponsor in your recovery process you might want to run this by them.
 
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I think you are right Dragonflysky. I have been working on healthy relationships for a number of years now. I have been very successful except for that first one. I had the most healthy weekend I have ever had with anyone. No drama, lots of good loving, eating, resting, talking. Not as much walking exercise as I 'd like but still so successful. I feel very empowered and I'm about to go off on another adventure with a man I've known for about 8 years on the internet. We are finally going to meet and then I am going to my first open dharma silent retreat. I will have lots of time to reflect on my healthy relationships and move toward completely letting go of the toxic one. I'm not too worried about any of this stuff. It is just words labels etc. I am just thrilled to have met such a wise open community. Thanks for helping. I really appreciate it. :)
 
I noticed you said that he loves you but is with other women that he says he loves less. He is a people pleaser. Might I suggest that he is selling you a line to please you... he is likely telling the other women the same thing. What way do you have of knowing if you already know he is dishonest.

I would suggest that you don't love this new guy because he is something different that you have ever had before. You don't know how to love men like him or how to invest in them because you have been hurt by ones like the other man before.

It's kind of lie women who are abused. They fall for abusers because that is what they know. They trust that scenario even though it is not healthy for them.

Perhaps its time to invest a little. Talk to the new guy about these concerns, tell him you want to take it really slow because you think he might be worth it. Tell him you don't love him but see potential to and want to investigate that slowly. There is no harm in admitting to these things. It might not work out with him, but would put you on good footing to be with someone in the future as you will learn a lot about what it means to really love.

Hey "Scat," heehee, :D I have written that so many times and erased it. Unfortunate short form.... but cute and worth teasing you about just the same :p heh.
 
I have this little heart and it says love is .... commitment, patience, respect, honesty, caring, trust. The new man I had such a good weekend with is not interested in long term commitment. He says he will do a year and then re-evaluate to see if the women can handle another year or so but he is just into casual dating nothing serious so I do not think I will waste my time trying to fall in love with someone who does not want to be in a committed relationship.

That said I am also not interested in a committed relationship with him. I have not met anyone I am interested in committing too. Patience, honesty, respect, caring, trust is all there so that is what 5 out of the 6 points describing love. I'm okay with that. I'm not putting commitment as more important than any of the other ones. That is why I'm here on poly now I'm sure commitment can be picked apart and I would love that to happen. Very interesting topic... commitment.

To comment on the other man, unhealthy one -he also cannot do committed relationships, does not want to be in one, basically wants to just have sex and be left alone to then go off and lie to his other women about how he wants to marry them etc. OH yhea that guy. I have talked to the other women. I know what he says, people pleasing up the wazzo. He admits to me he just tells each one of us whatever he thinks we want to hear so hmmm lets see commitement no, respect, no, honesty, no, trust, no there is lots of patience like a spider waiting for some prey to tingle on his web lol he claims to care so lets be generous and give him a 2 out of 6. lol NOT ENOUGH but plenty of fun for my dysfunctional unconscious patterns to crave after. Maybe I can fix him. lol

Anyway just being a little light hearted about all of this. Or I could be serious, right below my little heart paper I have EVOLVE OR DIE!!!! lol so can I try to have my cake and eat it too or will I die? We all die but do I want to be surrounded by people who truly love me 6 out of 6? or alone with a 2 or a 1 probably a zero ..... I'll take 5 out of 6 and lets examine this commitment thing and poly please. :)
 
weareone said:
Anyway just being a little light hearted about all of this. Or I could be serious, right below my little heart paper I have EVOLVE OR DIE!!!! lol so can I try to have my cake and eat it too or will I die? We all die but do I want to be surrounded by people who truly love me 6 out of 6? or alone with a 2 or a 1 probably a zero ..... I'll take 5 out of 6 and lets examine this commitment thing and poly please. :)
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I couldn't make much sense of this, but you will not DIE just because you don't have your cake and eat it too. I suppose if it bothers you that much, you could always MAKE yourself die; but last time I checked, not being in a polyamorous relationship is not a fatal condition.
 
oh that Evolve or Die statement was from my love addiction 12 stepping stuff. All the addictions end in jails, institutions or death. So I was wondering if I could hold onto my toxic love addicted relationship and have my healthy ones all at the same time. 5 out of 6 and 1 out of 6. or will I spiral into the pits of despair and die? evolve or die? face all this stuff and move through it to higher levels of consciousness or crash and burn into old unconscious dangerously toxic patterns. I'm not sure I can really explain it, depends if you've ever had addiction issues. Oh it was not, not being in a polyamorous relationship that I was implying was a fatal condition. It was thinking I am in a polyamorous/open relationship when I'm not, denial, toxic man is lying/cheating/saying whatever and I am getting physically attacked by the other women when he is trying to introduce/manipulate us.

There was a news story about this woman, who had some serious love addiction to a man and decided to burn down his wedding tent, killing so many people. Crimes of passion, love addiction, jealousy, lies, cheating, people pleasing, miss-communication can end in death. Happens all the time. Temporary insanity is the plea :D:eek::eek:

I just finished that article here on how to manage jealousy in open relationships that was sooo helpful. I will be studying/rereading that a number of times. thanks for asking for clarification, hope i didn't muddy it further. :)
 
Soooooooo....it sounds to me like your bottom line is can you continue receiving all the benefits of being in "Recovery" (from unhealthy relationships, etc.) while still "using", e.g. remaining... dabbling...playing in an unhealthy relationship(s)? In Addiction terminology...can you "pick up" and "use" whenever it's more fun and convenient and then get back into Recovery behaviors (Healthy relationship behaviors, in your case) as it suits you??????

Let's say I'm a Recovering Alcoholic. What would my odds be of staying in Recovery if I decided to not drink on certain occassions with certain people but then decided it was ok to pick-up and drink on other occassions with other people??? " An example......."It's my class/family reunion and it only happens a few times in life, and besides why should I have to miss out on all the fun everyone else is having when they drink? One or two drinks won't hurt. I can handle it just this once.....etc."

Weareone, I think you're straddling the fence on this one. Either you work a program of Recovery or you don't. It doesn't mean it's going to be a perfect Recovery, but from where I stand you're already engaging in Relapse behaviors by trying to rationalize, justify, intellectualize, etc., having a relationship of any kind with the one unhealthy man you've mentioned. You're already planning your next opportunity to relapse into unhealthy relationship behaviors.

How about letting go of the one unhealthy relationship regardless of whether or not your "new" healthier relationship develops into something more serious?? I think that not having a "back-up" relationship probably triggers some of the "abandoment" issues you mentioned earlier in this post. If your intent is to truly heal and be in a healthy relationship(s) you can't hang on to an unhealthy relationship(s), poly or mono.
 
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Your so right. I am planning my next relapse. Well I'm getting out of town in a few days so lets see how I do surrendering all of this. I don't have much hope for my will but the HP will save me if I can turn over the unhealthy stuff. Am I willing? what is my intent? those are the questions I will be meditating on. Thanks for keeping it in my awareness. That is very helpful.
 
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