nichtdaisy
New member
post deleted
follow up
follow up
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honesty & wanting to be a responsible third
- Thread starter nichtdaisy
- Start date
First of all, its unfortunate he wasn't 100% honest from the start, its tough to build a relationship on a lie.
ok secondly...
It is absolutely your business. If he is asking for a relationship (regardless of the context) you should know the truth. Heck I would even be so bold as to say it is well within your right to request some sort of confirmation from the wife, if that is how uncomfortable you feel. He has lied previously!
Personally, I am a ballsy person, I wouldnt have problem calling the guy on his omission. Maybe they have a DADT policy, maybe he has some reasons, but if you want this to go further than what it is, every card should be on the table
Honestly it sounds like you have the right idea, but there are some yellow flags that appear from the guy. (I won't say red flags, since you don't see them as a dealbreaker but they are worth noting to yourself) Protect yourself first.
ok secondly...
It is absolutely your business. If he is asking for a relationship (regardless of the context) you should know the truth. Heck I would even be so bold as to say it is well within your right to request some sort of confirmation from the wife, if that is how uncomfortable you feel. He has lied previously!
Personally, I am a ballsy person, I wouldnt have problem calling the guy on his omission. Maybe they have a DADT policy, maybe he has some reasons, but if you want this to go further than what it is, every card should be on the table
Honestly it sounds like you have the right idea, but there are some yellow flags that appear from the guy. (I won't say red flags, since you don't see them as a dealbreaker but they are worth noting to yourself) Protect yourself first.
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nichtdaisy
New member
add'l question
I am wondering if it would be more fair, when I have this conversation, to disclose that I looked him up and that I KNOW that he is married and is a father, rather than ask him leading questions.
I am concerned that he has been imperfectly forthcoming, but I did, purposefully, search him down on the Internet. It took me a little effort to learn what I did. I feel some general shame about stalking him, even though the information has been appropriately eye-opening, and even though anything publicly accessible on the internet is fair game.
Trust is a hard thing to build into a relationship, and it is as important in casual relationships as it is in serious. In fact, it is more important, because of the possible risks and personal-safety issues involved with being intimate with a stranger. So, even though this connection was/is supposed to be centered on sex, I want there to be complete trust and openness (if it is to happen).
Well, I don't know if I will actually have the cojones to say that I spent time hunting him down on-line, but part of me feels like I should.
I am wondering if it would be more fair, when I have this conversation, to disclose that I looked him up and that I KNOW that he is married and is a father, rather than ask him leading questions.
I am concerned that he has been imperfectly forthcoming, but I did, purposefully, search him down on the Internet. It took me a little effort to learn what I did. I feel some general shame about stalking him, even though the information has been appropriately eye-opening, and even though anything publicly accessible on the internet is fair game.
Trust is a hard thing to build into a relationship, and it is as important in casual relationships as it is in serious. In fact, it is more important, because of the possible risks and personal-safety issues involved with being intimate with a stranger. So, even though this connection was/is supposed to be centered on sex, I want there to be complete trust and openness (if it is to happen).
Well, I don't know if I will actually have the cojones to say that I spent time hunting him down on-line, but part of me feels like I should.
vandalin
New member
First off, I agree with Ariakas, you have the right to know. Although the problems are not deal breakers for you personally, the lack of honesty should be. Don't put him on too high a pedestal just because he is "nice" and "sexy"
Second, researching is not stalking. The big difference is that you had concerns and you looked into it. Period. Final. Stalking would be continuing to gather more info, getting multiple credit reports or info reports, following him or his family, etc.
As for how to broach the subject, go ahead and be honest. Tell him that you did a search online out of curiosity and you wanted to be sure if what you found was him, and true. Then launch right into asking if he's married before he gets the chance to ask you what you found out. Kinda devioius but as we all know, it's harder to hide the truth when you think the questioner knows something.
Then if he lies, or disembles(sp) or jumps right into accusing you of invading his privacy, those should be deal breakers becuase he is hiding something, probably not just from you either.
Good luck either way.
Second, researching is not stalking. The big difference is that you had concerns and you looked into it. Period. Final. Stalking would be continuing to gather more info, getting multiple credit reports or info reports, following him or his family, etc.
As for how to broach the subject, go ahead and be honest. Tell him that you did a search online out of curiosity and you wanted to be sure if what you found was him, and true. Then launch right into asking if he's married before he gets the chance to ask you what you found out. Kinda devioius but as we all know, it's harder to hide the truth when you think the questioner knows something.
Then if he lies, or disembles(sp) or jumps right into accusing you of invading his privacy, those should be deal breakers becuase he is hiding something, probably not just from you either.
Good luck either way.
nichtdaisy
New member
following up
well, this is old business, and the two of you who responded probably are asking yourselves, "wait, huh? what was this?" as I had conveniently deleted the original post...
Back in April, I was freaking out because I started dating a man in an open relationship. We developed a fast and deep bond... except... EXCEPT... I knew that he wasn't being 100% honest with me about where he was coming from. he told me that he was in an "open relationship", and referred to his partner as his "girlfiend", but it only took three mouse clicks on line to learn that he was married and had a kid.
So, I joined this forum and wrote about my concerns, and got great replies from two of you.
I freaked out more about my situation, and pulled the original post off the forum.
Fortunately, within a week, I had "the talk" with my new lover, and it was easy for him to come clean with me about where he was coming from. I could tell that he had been stressed out about it... and he was pretty relieved to see that I was so accepting. Within a week, he also updated his dating profile (where I met him) to honestly reflect his situation.
and now, three months have passed. We are still dating. I am assured that his wife knows about me, although she isn't always thrilled about it. There are challenges there... which are beyond my control, because they've been together for much longer than I've known him - issues that predate me, and ones that will postdate me, I am sure. I give them the space to work out their issues. I protect myself by not getting too deeply emotionally involved.
I stay with the situation because my lover is a good friend and a talented lover. I have another lover, as well. Everything is open and cool on my end. I feel lucky that both of my lovers are happy to share me, and I am happy to share them. I just worry a little bit about how my first lover's wife feels- I'm pretty sure that she would be happier having her husband to herself. This has been my first non-monog experience, and I am pretty happy, so far... it comes on the tails of being in a very confining 7-year monogamous relationship... where I couldn't even have an emotional connection with anyone else without it causing jealousy and fighting.
Being in this situation makes me think that I would, one day, like to be in a more serious polyamorous situation - share a household and family with many partners - and have close friendships with the partners whom I am not necessarily romantically involved with. It probably isn't going to happen with my married lover... but being with him gives me food for thought for what I really want.
Thanks for the room to rant.
well, this is old business, and the two of you who responded probably are asking yourselves, "wait, huh? what was this?" as I had conveniently deleted the original post...
Back in April, I was freaking out because I started dating a man in an open relationship. We developed a fast and deep bond... except... EXCEPT... I knew that he wasn't being 100% honest with me about where he was coming from. he told me that he was in an "open relationship", and referred to his partner as his "girlfiend", but it only took three mouse clicks on line to learn that he was married and had a kid.
So, I joined this forum and wrote about my concerns, and got great replies from two of you.
I freaked out more about my situation, and pulled the original post off the forum.
Fortunately, within a week, I had "the talk" with my new lover, and it was easy for him to come clean with me about where he was coming from. I could tell that he had been stressed out about it... and he was pretty relieved to see that I was so accepting. Within a week, he also updated his dating profile (where I met him) to honestly reflect his situation.
and now, three months have passed. We are still dating. I am assured that his wife knows about me, although she isn't always thrilled about it. There are challenges there... which are beyond my control, because they've been together for much longer than I've known him - issues that predate me, and ones that will postdate me, I am sure. I give them the space to work out their issues. I protect myself by not getting too deeply emotionally involved.
I stay with the situation because my lover is a good friend and a talented lover. I have another lover, as well. Everything is open and cool on my end. I feel lucky that both of my lovers are happy to share me, and I am happy to share them. I just worry a little bit about how my first lover's wife feels- I'm pretty sure that she would be happier having her husband to herself. This has been my first non-monog experience, and I am pretty happy, so far... it comes on the tails of being in a very confining 7-year monogamous relationship... where I couldn't even have an emotional connection with anyone else without it causing jealousy and fighting.
Being in this situation makes me think that I would, one day, like to be in a more serious polyamorous situation - share a household and family with many partners - and have close friendships with the partners whom I am not necessarily romantically involved with. It probably isn't going to happen with my married lover... but being with him gives me food for thought for what I really want.
Thanks for the room to rant.
immaterial
New member
Interesting story! I have a question, though it isn't really any of my business (of course, such a statement goes without saying on a forum like this one, but anyway):
You say you are "assured" his wife knows about you. How are you assured of this? Through him? Have you met her? Is everything really open or is it DADT or is he perhaps still "cheating"?
Just wondering.
Immaterial
You say you are "assured" his wife knows about you. How are you assured of this? Through him? Have you met her? Is everything really open or is it DADT or is he perhaps still "cheating"?
Just wondering.
Immaterial
nichtdaisy
New member
assurance
He mentioned in passing, at one point, that she wasn't happy about "our situation," presumably because what started as "just sex" has lasted for a while now, and love and friendship have developed as well. I guess that his previous extra-marital partnerships had been shorter-lived, and more compartmentalized.
The fact that he brought up something that was challenging leads me to believe that he is telling the truth. If he had said, "oh, yeah. she knows. she's fine with it..." that would be easier to just say, without substantiating it. but, the fact that he brought up the challenge... that makes me think that he is being honest.
I was traveling when he shared this with me. I immediately offered to back off - either dial back the emotional intensity, or even break off our relationship. I'm not in the marriage-wrecking business. He tried to assure me that it was going to be ok. ...this is where I have to be immensely trustful of him- that he isn't just trying to have his cake and eat it, too. I have to trust that he really is making this work for her. It's hard for me to know, since I don't have a relationship with his wife. But, he's been respectful, courteous and loving towards me... so I can only assume that he is that way with his wife. Also, if they have issues, between them, they pre-date me, and they will post-date me.
He mentioned in passing, at one point, that she wasn't happy about "our situation," presumably because what started as "just sex" has lasted for a while now, and love and friendship have developed as well. I guess that his previous extra-marital partnerships had been shorter-lived, and more compartmentalized.
The fact that he brought up something that was challenging leads me to believe that he is telling the truth. If he had said, "oh, yeah. she knows. she's fine with it..." that would be easier to just say, without substantiating it. but, the fact that he brought up the challenge... that makes me think that he is being honest.
I was traveling when he shared this with me. I immediately offered to back off - either dial back the emotional intensity, or even break off our relationship. I'm not in the marriage-wrecking business. He tried to assure me that it was going to be ok. ...this is where I have to be immensely trustful of him- that he isn't just trying to have his cake and eat it, too. I have to trust that he really is making this work for her. It's hard for me to know, since I don't have a relationship with his wife. But, he's been respectful, courteous and loving towards me... so I can only assume that he is that way with his wife. Also, if they have issues, between them, they pre-date me, and they will post-date me.
nichtdaisy
New member
...and, since I feel pretty balanced in this situation (I don't want or need much more than I am getting, I feel very peaceful towards and supportive of his primary relationship, I don't feel jealous or resentful, I have a life outside of the relationship) I trust that *I* am doing all that I can to honor and respect his wife. I might be deluding myself (or may be naive), but I give them lots of space... and lots of love, from where I stand.
immaterial
New member
Is your side of the street clean? You seem to me to be whistling in the dark. Is this just because I would not be comfortable with such an arrangement? Am I projecting? Entirely possible. But if I had a married lover and I had never met her husband and she had started out lying to me and now she was saying "he's not too happy about you" but I didn't know more about precisely what that meant, I'd be haunted. Not because I would feel responsible for either my lover or her husband...they are both grown ups. I'd feel like the entire reason I have gone whole hog with this poly thing, which is complete openness and honesty, was suddenly on hold again. I don't want to be open and honest with a woman who is having an affair, you know what I mean?
Come to think of it, I wouldn't get involved with a married woman if I couldn't meet her husband. Hear him express compersion with his own mouth. "Your wife is amazing!" I would say. "Isn't she though? She really loves you too," he would reply. Now wouldn't that be spectacular?
Immaterial
Come to think of it, I wouldn't get involved with a married woman if I couldn't meet her husband. Hear him express compersion with his own mouth. "Your wife is amazing!" I would say. "Isn't she though? She really loves you too," he would reply. Now wouldn't that be spectacular?
Immaterial
On this board there is a lot of backlash to DADT policies. I intellectually understand why there is backlash. However I still think it is misplaced. Not everyone wants to know everything. Would is surprise you to know that I know of long term poly/leather families with strict DADT policies in place. It works for THEM (19 years in fact). I am sure there are others too. Its a level of discretion that some people need.
I don't want a DADT for me or mine, but if it works for them then let them have at it
Where it becomes touchy, is if the person that is the obscure hidden treasure doesn't want to be hidden. It doesn't read like that is the case here. So kudos to them for making it work.
And it started out rough...but how many poly relationships/lifestyles start out cheating? I think most if I go by the sheer numbers here and on other forums. No one seems to have a street cleaner handy
ari
immaterial
New member
Acknowledged, both the truth and wisdom of what you say, Ariakis. I tried to couch my own reservations in some disclaimers. Perhaps I didn't do that strongly enough. I seem to not be communicating very effectively today. Nap time!
Immaterial
Immaterial
SourGirl
Member
Regarding DADT policies.
Hate to pick fly-shit out of the pepper jar,..BUT,....
If DADT policies are to be used. There has to be some give. People shouldnt be allowed to hide 100%.
What is so hard, about giving a simple 'yes' answer ? It does not need to be a big production, of meetings, and chatting.
This story, lets use it as a example. Say she had this opportunity :
Shiny New Girlfriend needs that reassurance that someone is not lying about their open relationship. She needs to check with the wife.
Male gives shiny, new girlfriend the phone number. Shiny, New GF (SNG) calls :
* Ring, Ring !*
Wife : ' Hello ? "
SNG : " Hello, I am just checking to make sure your husband and you are in a open relationship ? "
Wife : " Yes. "
** ...click. **
-------------------------
Why wouldn`t The wife/husband (at home) want to make sure, that people understand, that they are not being cheated on ? It`s a source of pride in a way, isn`t it ? Even if it isn`t, why not say that one word, as a way of protecting the 'community' from cheaters who like to pose as poly, or in a open relationship ?
If it was standard practice to do this one simple thing, imagine the peace of mind it would bring.
Even if you do not want to know what your partner is up to, odds are many SNG`s or SNB`s would not call. Just being handed the phone in a forthright way, would be enough for them.
The few that do call,.....are in need of a 1 word acknowledgement. That`s it. I do believe some people need to get their head out of the sand, and at least help their partner in this way. Anything to the contrary, is suspect .
I am sure this has been covered a 1000 times before,..but it seems to be said 1000 more times.
...End of chocolate-milkshake-induced rant
Hate to pick fly-shit out of the pepper jar,..BUT,....
If DADT policies are to be used. There has to be some give. People shouldnt be allowed to hide 100%.
What is so hard, about giving a simple 'yes' answer ? It does not need to be a big production, of meetings, and chatting.
This story, lets use it as a example. Say she had this opportunity :
Shiny New Girlfriend needs that reassurance that someone is not lying about their open relationship. She needs to check with the wife.
Male gives shiny, new girlfriend the phone number. Shiny, New GF (SNG) calls :
* Ring, Ring !*
Wife : ' Hello ? "
SNG : " Hello, I am just checking to make sure your husband and you are in a open relationship ? "
Wife : " Yes. "
** ...click. **
-------------------------
Why wouldn`t The wife/husband (at home) want to make sure, that people understand, that they are not being cheated on ? It`s a source of pride in a way, isn`t it ? Even if it isn`t, why not say that one word, as a way of protecting the 'community' from cheaters who like to pose as poly, or in a open relationship ?
If it was standard practice to do this one simple thing, imagine the peace of mind it would bring.
Even if you do not want to know what your partner is up to, odds are many SNG`s or SNB`s would not call. Just being handed the phone in a forthright way, would be enough for them.
The few that do call,.....are in need of a 1 word acknowledgement. That`s it. I do believe some people need to get their head out of the sand, and at least help their partner in this way. Anything to the contrary, is suspect .
I am sure this has been covered a 1000 times before,..but it seems to be said 1000 more times.
...End of chocolate-milkshake-induced rant
ok I know I keep jumping into threads to discuss topics. But this one interests me because it caused a huge stir on another forum.
SJ - what about couples who decide at the beginning that a DADT is fine (man and women marry, man is bi-sexual for simple reference). Further to that, what if the male partner has an anonymous sex fetish (aka bathhouses)
Now, as you know, DADT is not even in my scope, so just throwing out curveballs. What if it is consensual? And further to that the partners that the male is hooking up with, doesn't mind.
This ends up being complete consensual DADT?
SJ
- what about couples who decide at the beginning that a DADT is fine (man and women marry, man is bi-sexual for simple reference). Further to that, what if the male partner has an anonymous sex fetish (aka bathhouses)Now, as you know, DADT is not even in my scope, so just throwing out curveballs. What if it is consensual? And further to that the partners that the male is hooking up with, doesn't mind.
This ends up being complete consensual DADT?
SourGirl
Member
yep,..that is my focus Ariakas. The consensual couples.
Those that wish to know absolutely NOTHING about the others sexual and relationship choices.
This is a bit of a stretch, but its all I have on my tired brain right now, try and follow me..... Remember before a lot of policies become popular, people hide, and ignore all kinds of important issues. Safer sex, is a example.
We have now accepted the fact, that while it might not be the sexiest thing to do, we all generally promote having a 'safe-sex' discussion before engaging in sex acts. it has become the norm.
So thats my rambling, milkshake-loving, thought process in the last post. Why not promote a simple, quick 'must do' amongst those who follow a DADT policy ?
This would be a 'safer relationship' type of policy.
*Makes slurpy noises at the bottom, and end, of her milkshake. Ah phooey, all gone*
The consensual couples.Those that wish to know absolutely NOTHING about the others sexual and relationship choices.
This is a bit of a stretch, but its all I have on my tired brain right now, try and follow me..... Remember before a lot of policies become popular, people hide, and ignore all kinds of important issues. Safer sex, is a example.
We have now accepted the fact, that while it might not be the sexiest thing to do, we all generally promote having a 'safe-sex' discussion before engaging in sex acts. it has become the norm.
So thats my rambling, milkshake-loving, thought process in the last post. Why not promote a simple, quick 'must do' amongst those who follow a DADT policy ?
This would be a 'safer relationship' type of policy.
*Makes slurpy noises at the bottom, and end, of her milkshake. Ah phooey, all gone*
yep,..that is my focus Ariakas.
Those that wish to know absolutely NOTHING about the others sexual and relationship choices.
This is a bit of a stretch, but its all I have on my tired brain right now, try and follow me..... Remember before a lot of policies become popular, people hide, and ignore all kinds of important issues. Safer sex, is a example.
We have now accepted the fact, that while it might not be the sexiest thing to do, we all generally promote having a 'safe-sex' discussion before engaging in sex acts. it has become the norm.
I get your meaning. By doing it, doesn't make it right or stop it from working, but it would be better if it was out in the open. Is that following ok
I don't disagree, but unfortunately, others with stronger opinions about it do. hmmmm milkshakes
...fair enough, I think that would work. Except for the anonymous sex feitishtas *Makes slurpy noises at the bottom, and end, of her milkshake. Ah phooey, all gone*
Well god I hope so, its been 10 hours
redpepper
Active member
I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if this is misplaced, but apart from just checking with wifey that she knows you exist probably being a good idea... I don't see why you have to hang with her if all is well on your end. I don't think that you need to change that. Time does wonders for making things normal. I'm sure with time she will get used to it and so will you.
However, in that phone call it might be respectful to let her know that if she ever wants to meet or discuss anything, that you would be open to that. After all, if you care for him then you should be caring for her. A little reassurance could go a really long way.
However, in that phone call it might be respectful to let her know that if she ever wants to meet or discuss anything, that you would be open to that. After all, if you care for him then you should be caring for her. A little reassurance could go a really long way.