How do I feel ok with my wife opening our relationship?

I think you could plump for radical honesty. Either say you don't want open marriage at this time, or go ahead and open it, without any restrictions like "no dating men," and let it find its natural level. Just have agreements for safer sex practices and each of you having your own checking accounts to pay for your dates.

Will either of you be changing jobs or other things so you can have more time together?

Does she prefer you thinking you are shit so you do lots of acts of service for her benefit? Doesn't she want you to actually get well?

What do you need to actually be happy? Or, if that's too much to think about, what do you need to be at peace or neutral? Are you able to articulate that?

Is feeling happy one of those "too good to be true" things for you, like you don't really trust it?
She's dating couples, which makes me more comfortable, because they have a relationship, and my wife is a friend with benefits. I understand what you are getting at, so thank you for that.

I am thinking of changing jobs, and she might retire at the end of the school year (she is a teacher), so that will really change things. I REALLY don't want her with two men. I can't compete with one, let alone 2 men. She had that before I met her and I know she loved it.

She doesn't want me to feel shitty, I don't think, but she does love that I do everything for her. She knows it's part of it, because I've told her as much. But I do believe she wants me to be well.

Asking what I need to be happy is a really difficult question. I don't know. I've never really been happy in my life. I have happy moments and I'm not always miserable, but have been a lot of the time. It drove me to drinking heavily. I've only been sober since 2019. I am usually in a state of cautious optimism, with a large amount of anxiety. The anxiety keeps me from real happiness.

After she cheated on me, the PTSD from it has kept me in a state of quiet panic of when it would happen again, or something like this was going to happen. I have PTSD from prior to that, from my upbringing being less than ideal, and having no good relationships prior to meeting my wife, so even in the beginning of our relationship, I was worried she would find someone better. I feel like I don't deserve happiness, since I've never felt happy with an unhealthy amount of fear and sadness. I would be ok with just getting to ok. Please just let me be ok.
 
I'm most against her just being with other men and the time she will take with others, as we don't get a lot of time together.
The most important piece of poly advice I got was to focus on what I need, not on what other partners get. If you already feel like you don't have enough time together, than that is the issue to solve. And, counterintuitively, it won't be solved by her not dating. It will be solved by the two of you talking about it, finding time and committing time to each other, and perhaps by making your time together more interesting, too. Her other partners are just circumstances in this story, and could be replaced by work-hobbies-health issues-relatives, whatever else is asking for her time and attention.

It's important to take on the mindset that a date isn't "stealing time" from you in a qualitatively different way than work or hobbies.
 
Thank you for more info.

Gently... internet people might be able to help you with 1 or 2 things, but you have a LOT going on. I think you'd be best off talking to your therapist. If you need an additional one, you might consider:



After she cheated on me, the PTSD from it has kept me in a state of quiet panic of when it would happen again, or something like this was going to happen.

Well, "this" is happening. You are here.

You agreed to open your marriage, even though you weren't all that into it, and now she'd had her date with the one person this week and she's dating couples.

You seem activated because of the cheating past PTSD.

I have PTSD from prior to that from my upbringing being less than ideal, and having no good relationships prior to meeting my wife, so even in the beginning of our relationship, I was worried she would find someone better.

You haven't had good relationships before meeting your wife, and as much as you put her on a pedestal, your relationship with Wife isn't actually all that great-sounding either, since she's cheated in the past and it still hurts you and keeps you activated.

I'm just not sure you are in a healthy relationship. You sound really latched on to her, and/or fearful of a breakup, or fearful of being on your own. Maybe a combo of things.


You may want to reflect on this. Read the bullet lists.


I am usually in a state of cautious optimism, with a large amount of anxiety. The anxiety keeps me from real happiness.

I feel like I don't deserve happiness, since I've never felt happy with an unhealthy amount of fear and sadness. I would be ok with just getting to ok. Please just let me be ok.

I think all people deserve happiness. But you think you don't deserve happiness. You also kind of sound like you don't think you control your life. You are just along for the ride for whatever Wife picks. I don't see how any of this is going to get better until you change your mind on both those things, decide you DO deserve to be happy, or at least ok, decide you ARE in charge of how your life goes, and take steps in that direction.

What steps are you taking towards being "more ok?" Have you talked to your doctors about this anxiety, and if meds are appropriate in your case? Or, if this is situational, do you need to leave this situation, have a trial separation, or try both meds and a trial separation?

You also have to be able to say, "I love you a lot. But NO, not even for you am I going to do stuff I don't really want or that hurts me. That's asking too much." Are you able to do that at this point in time?

I imagine thinking about all this is scary and really hard.

I could be wrong in my impressions. But you are posting... so it sounds like you do want help/want things to change. It is just that there are complex layers; it's not really something internet people can help you with. I encourage you to be honest with your therapist, even if you aren't ready to be fully honest with Wife. I encourage you to schedule a solo therapy appointment. Tell them everything, or print this thread and have them read it, if talking out loud is hard.

Galagirl
 
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How long ago were the affairs and how long did each affair last?


Clearly you’re not past the cheating, and with your level of jealousy and self esteem, which her cheating helped contribute to, I don’t see how this new open arrangement is going to feel better, being able to watch and see in real time, minus some of the lying and sneaking around. It might feel like a cheating flashback right in front of your face.

To me, you’re lighting yourself on fire to keep her warm.
It's been 8 years or so with the second guy. They were hooking up for about 3-4 months, as I just recently got some honesty I wasn't getting from her. It was the worst I have ever felt, though I was never angry with her, just that I had failed her. No, I'm not completely over it. I'm only trying this for her, to see if I can still be hers at the end. Maybe the openness and honesty of this will make it better. If this doesn't work, then at least I tried.
 
The most important piece of poly advice I got was to focus on what I need, not on what other partners get. If you already feel like you don't have enough time together, than that is the issue to solve. And, counterintuitively, it won't be solved by her not dating. It will be solved by the two of you talking about it, finding time and committing time to each other, and perhaps by making your time together more interesting, too. Her other partners are just circumstances in this story, and could be replaced by work-hobbies-health issues-relatives, whatever else is asking for her time and attention.

It's important to take on the mindset that a date isn't "stealing time" from you in a qualitatively different way than work or hobbies.
I appreciate this so much. Taking the partners out and just focus on what I have any control over. It's really hard for me to compartmentalize that her having sex with others as a "hobby", but if I can, this will be a little more doable
 
Thank you for more info.

Gently... internet people might be able to help you with 1 or 2 things, but you have a LOT going on. I think you'd be best off talking to your therapist. If you need an additional one, you might consider:





Well, "this" is happening. You are here.

You agreed to open your marriage, even though you weren't all that into it, and now she'd had her date with the one person this week and she's dating couples.

You seem activated because of the cheating past PTSD.



You haven't had good relationships before meeting your wife, and as much as you put her on a pedestal, your relationship with Wife isn't actually all that great-sounding either, since she's cheated in the past and it still hurts you and keeps you activated.

I'm just not sure you are in a healthy relationship. You sound really latched on to her, and/or fearful of a breakup, or fearful of being on your own. Maybe a combo of things.


You may want to reflect on this. Read the bullet lists.






I think all people deserve happiness. But you think you don't deserve happiness. You also kind of sound like you don't think you control your life. You are just along for the ride for whatever Wife picks. I don't see how any of this is going to get better until you change your mind on both those things, decide you DO deserve to be happy, or at least ok, decide you ARE in charge of how your life goes, and take steps in that direction.

What steps are you taking towards being "more ok?" Have you talked to your doctors about this anxiety, and if meds are appropriate in your case? Or, if this is situational, do you need to leave this situation, have a trial separation, or try both meds and a trial separation?

You also have to be able to say, "I love you a lot. But NO, not even for you am I going to do stuff I don't really want or stuff that hurts me. That's asking too much." Are you able to do that at this point in time?

I imagine thinking about all this is scary and really hard.

I could be wrong in my impressions. But you are posting... so it sounds like you do want help/want things to change. It is just that there are complex layers; it's not really something internet people can help you with. I encourage you to be honest with your therapist, even if you aren't ready to fully honest with Wife. I encourage you to schedule a solo therapy appointment. Tell them everything, or print this thread and have them read it, if talking out loud is hard.

Galagirl
We have a couples therapist that is poly friendly, and we are seeing her together and separately. I also am starting with a personal therapist, but I don't start with them for a couple weeks. I am not standing up for myself and I don't know if I can. I'm freaking scared out of my mind, and hurting like hell. I know internet people can't solve it, but I have greatly appreciated all the advice.
 
I am not standing up for myself and I don't know if I can. I'm freaking scared out of my mind, and hurting like hell.
just that I had failed her.
This is heartbreaking. She started with cheating over a long term, a choice she made. I've got a bone to pick with that, no matter how beautiful she is. That's where I would feel the pain, and I would feel that pain until something happened to intentionally heal that. If she didn't have the courage to be honest with you then, maybe she should have the courage to close ranks with you and work on that healing. That healing is what you should be speaking up for if you don't want to end the relationship.

She shouldn't be burning your relationship equity for whatever she's getting out of this. There are ways to do this that BUILD your relationship, if they are compatible with you. Otherwise, this is a semi-consensual cuckolding... which is really not ideal, responsible, or ethical.

I appreciate this so much. Taking the partners out and just focus on what I have any control over. It's really hard for me to compartmentalize that her having sex with others as a "hobby", but if I can, this will be a little more doable
Yeah, that's one that my wife and I struggled with. When you start thinking about it as "sport fucking", it becomes a lot more hobby-like.

Of course, that's the line of thought that pushed us AWAY from poly and into swinging instead...
 
Yeah, that's one that my wife and I struggled with. When you start thinking about it as "sport fucking", it becomes a lot more hobby-like.

Of course, that's the line of thought that pushed us AWAY from poly and into swinging instead...
Works with poly too. The key here is not necessarily the "reframing as a hobby", but the "shifting focus to what I need or want, not what others get".
 
We have a couples therapist that is poly friendly, and we are seeing her together and separately. I also am starting with a personal therapist, but I don't start with them for a couple weeks.

I hope your individual therapist "clicks" for you.

I am not standing up for myself and I don't know if I can. I'm freaking scared out of my mind, and hurting like hell.

I think you'd have to unpack that with your therapist.

I know internet people can't solve it, but I have greatly appreciated all the advice.

Sometimes it helps to be SEEN. I do see that this is hard for you.

So hang in there as you figure yourself out with the help of your counselors.

GG
 
This is heartbreaking. She started with cheating over a long term, a choice she made. I've got a bone to pick with that, no matter how beautiful she is. That's where I would feel the pain, and I would feel that pain until something happened to intentionally heal that. If she didn't have the courage to be honest with you then, maybe she should have the courage to close ranks with you and work on that healing. That healing is what you should be speaking up for if you don't want to end the relationship.

She shouldn't be burning your relationship equity for whatever she's getting out of this. There are ways to do this that BUILD your relationship, if they are compatible with you. Otherwise, this is a semi-consensual cuckolding... which is really not ideal, responsible, or ethical.


Yeah, that's one that my wife and I struggled with. When you start thinking about it as "sport fucking", it becomes a lot more hobby-like.

Of course, that's the line of thought that pushed us AWAY from poly and into swinging instead...
I think she thought I was over it, because I tried my best to hide the pain from her. I told myself I should be over it. I have done so much talking about it with my therapist; I've done medicine journeys; sweat lodge; you name it, to get over it, except talk to her about it. When we have, I am very soft and don't want her to know how fucked up I am still. I want nothing more than to be completely over it, but this has not helped. I had visions of her with those lovers every day for years. I felt I was getting better till she told me she wanted to open the marriage a year ago, then it was right back in front. I don't know how to get on board with this without being over that, but I'm out of time, and here we are.

I really hate the idea of being a cuckold. Taking care of our life while she's out having others enjoy her kicks my ass. I don't know which is the worst part either. Is it that this is the time I'll lose? Is it the fear that she's going to find a better lover than I am? I know there isn't a single fix to my problem, but I appreciate all of the responses I have gotten.
 
IMO, the problem newbies run into when they try to redefine or rationalize the sex their spouse is having with outside partners is, it boomerangs back to their own sex life. Labeling it hobby sex, sport-fucking, NSA, etc., are all meant to diminish its relevance, or value, or importance. Once you do that, and a healthy dose of NRE kicks in, then how does one define/label/describe the newly-transitioning poly couples' sex life-- mutual release sex, maintenance sex, obligatory sex because my spouse is struggling? It’s hard not judge your own situation, especially for long-standing monogamous couples that had a long-standing belief and practice that sex was sacred/special to themselves and now it’s not. It's more of a my body/my choice-type thing.
 
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I really hate the idea of being a cuckold.
You are not. You don't have that fetish. You would be one of her partners in your poly network. I won't sugar-coat this by saying you'll stay the most important to her every moment - that may not be so. But you're the one whose life is most entangled with her.

Taking care of our life while she's out having others enjoy her kicks my ass.
That's not a fair deal and you don't agree to that. If she's out one evening or weekend and you're taking care of home? You go out another evening or weekend - not necessarily to date, but to pursue your hobbies and self-care and have your own free quality time. She can take care of your life. The division of responsibilities still needs to be fair.

Is it that this is the time I'll lose?
Speak to her about this worry. Some time-loss may be unavoidable, but scheduling focused date-time together goes a long way.

Is it the fear that she's going to find a better lover than I am?
She's gonna find some new and shiny people who will give her something different, likely even great. But sex doesn't happen on a scale. He will give her the hights of bliss for some time - until the NRE wears off. Than it's back to "one is better with his tongue, the other gives amazing massage". It's you who has learned everything she likes over the years.

You sound very unhappy, and as others have told you, starting over without her may not be as bad as it sounds. But you don't need to keep the views you have written out here. Poly doesn't make you a cuckold, a losser or an inadequate person. It just makes you a person who has chosen a non-monogamous relationship structure.
 
I hope your individual therapist "clicks" for you.

I think you'd have to unpack that with your therapist.

Sometimes it helps to be SEEN. I do see that this is hard for you. So hang in there as you figure yourself out with the help of your counselors.
I do want to be seen. I feel invisible a lot of the time, like I'm a ghost of someone. I want to be seen and wanted, I want to know what that feels like. Thank you.
 
IMO, the problem newbies run into when they try to redefine or rationalize the sex their spouse is having with outside partners is, it boomerangs back to their own sex life. Labeling it hobby sex, sport-fucking, NSA, etc., are all meant to diminish its relevance, or value, or importance. Once you do that, and a healthy dose of NRE kicks in, then how does one define/label/describe the newly-transitioning poly couples' sex life-- mutual release sex, maintenance sex, obligatory sex because my spouse is struggling? It’s hard not judge your own situation, especially for long-standing monogamous couples that had a long-standing belief and practice that sex was sacred/special to themselves and now it’s not. It's more of a my body/my choice-type thing.
I worry that it will be "maintenance sex" or "obligatory", trying to make me feel OK with what she's doing without me. It's hard not to feel that way right now.
 
You are not. You don't have that fetish. You would be one of her partners in your poly network. I won't sugar-coat this by saying you'll stay the most important to her every moment - that may not be so. But you're the one whose life is most entangled with her.


That's not a fair deal and you don't agree to that. If she's out one evening or weekend and you're taking care of home? You go out another evening or weekend - not necessarily to date, but to pursue your hobbies and self-care and have your own free quality time. She can take care of your life. The division of responsibilities still needs to be fair.


Speak to her about this worry. Some time-loss may be unavoidable, but scheduling focused date-time together goes a long way.


She's gonna find some new and shiny people who will give her something different, likely even great. But sex doesn't happen on a scale. He will give her the hights of bliss for some time - until the NRE wears off. Than it's back to "one is better with his tongue, the other gives amazing massage". It's you who has learned everything she likes over the years.

You sound very unhappy, and as others have told you, starting over without her may not be as bad as it sounds. But you don't need to keep the views you have written out here. Poly doesn't make you a cuckold, a losser or an inadequate person. It just makes you a person who has chosen a non-monogamous relationship structure.
Thank you. I want nothing less than to start over. This arrangement is the second thing on what I don't want. Thank you for your support and the others who have given suggestions.
 
Works with poly too. The key here is not necessarily the "reframing as a hobby", but the "shifting focus to what I need or want, not what others get".
I want to be with her, I want what they are getting, her as a new sexy thing to play with, I want her excited about me like a new love. We didn't have great sex, or even good. This was my fault, as a shitty lover with no experience, so I couldn't have what her new lovers have... her passion, her lust. I'm just her husband. I would love for someone to be that way with me, ever.
 
I want to be with her, I want what they are getting, her as a new sexy thing to play with, I want her excited about me like a new love.
If you find that, bottle it, as it would make your fortune! The reality is that in all relationships the NRE/honeymoon period wears off. In a good relationship it matures into a deep abiding love. Attraction and excitement can stay alive, sure, but, just IMO, not at that intensity. Life and love don’t work that way.


We didn't have great sex, or even good, this was my fault as a shitty lover with no experience, so I couldn't have what her new lovers have... her passion, her lust. I'm just her husband. I would love for someone to be that way with me, ever.

Well, one nice thing about polyamory is that you can experience NRE, it just won’t be with your wife. But if you date, have new experiences, explore yourself, gain more confidence (including sexual confidence, if that still concerns you), then that may develop into renewed intimacy with your wife. Sometimes it takes a detour for the other to look at you in a new way.

The difficulty is that if you remain unhappy and longing for what you can’t have-- a monogamous passionate wife-- you could end up sabotaging the relationship anyway. Misery is contagious and sucks the joy out of life. What was it Leo Buscaglia used to say? “Worry doesn’t prevent tomorrow’s sorrow, it only robs today of its joy."

Really, and again, just IMO, you either have to end the relationship and find someone who will be devoted just to you, or truly accept it and use it as a medium for your personal growth and fulfilment too. Craft something positive from it.

Lastly, “I’m just her husband”… is that not important? You can adore your husband, and still enjoy having other partners. I can personally assure you of that. That’s polyamory for you!
 
If you find that, bottle it, as it would make your fortune! The reality is that in all relationships the NRE/honeymoon period wears off. In a good relationship it matures into a deep abiding love. Attraction and excitement can stay alive, sure, but not at that intensity. Life and love don’t work that way.
I have seen couples who keep it sexy over several decades, but what it takes is a lot of attention between two established partners to constantly re-up the r'ship. Like, instead of taking the majority of that energy & showering it on a new partner, you have to keep re-investing that energy, passion, etc., in the established one.

Maybe I'm wrong, but seems to me lots (#not all) of poly folk have the comfy-old-shoe partner at home who help with day-to-day life, while the passion/sex/fun is more for non-live-in, newer partner(s.) And, of course, if you are *feeling* like a comfy old shoe, and you'd rather be the exciting, sexy partner, or vice-versa, it sucks to be you.

This is my last comment on this post, because I just see OP wanting his wife to change & she isn't going to, or wanting to miraculously be happy about this, when he obviously isn't. Why should she change? She's getting what she wants.

@Tony, you want out of this. You want out!!! Save yourself, be your own protector, get out, and then work on yourself so that you'll never accept less than what you WANT and DESERVE. Peace, out.
 
I worry that it will be "maintenance sex" or "obligatory", trying to make me feel OK with what she's doing without me. It's hard not to feel that way right now.

My suggestion is to have a very frank/brutally honest conversation and express that you have NO interest in maintenance sex or pity sex. And furthermore, I’d withdraw from any situation or encounter that feels off and/or in which she’s distracted or preoccupied with someone else. Make your parameters or red lines known. And then enforce them. If you’re in a restaurant on a designated date night and she can’t stop texting/looking at her phone, get up and leave. Don’t make a fuss, just get up to use the restroom, pay the bill, and leave. IMO, words get cheap in all this and people have to feel it in actions.
 
My wife has now opened herself to poly after 22+ years with me. She says it's always been in her, but she was mono for me, outside of a few slips during our marriage. I appreciate her openness and honesty, but this is a hard turn for me. I'm hurting her with how much it's hurting me. We have so much in common and deep love. I can't leave her, but I'm struggling to be ok with myself as I'm trying to find my place in this. I want to believe I can be happy. I think if I was part of the play I could be better, but that is more guess than knowledge. Is there a anyone out there who's been in my boat and not drowned?
 
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