How do you deal with case where spouse changed their mind on polyamory?

[JamesLove]

Hello

I am in quite a bit of emotional pain. My wife and I have been married 20 years. We started swinging 5 years ago and had a lot of fun.

Last year my wife expressed the desire to do more solo sexual explorations when traveling. I supported her desire.

She met someone during her first trip that she really liked and asked me about starting a long distance relationship. She struggled with the idea of being polyamory at first but fully embraced it and she had my support.

One of my criteria for supporting her was that I would be able to also find more romantic partners. I met a lady that i really enjoyed. My wife got to know her and supported me and my relationship.

Everything started fine, my wife and I would alternate watching the kids when one of us would travel to see our partners.

Then 3 months into it, my wife had a mental breakdown where she became ultra jealous of my relationship and started a lot of panicked behavior like going through my phone, asking me to break up with my partner (but she could keep hers - she had found an additional local one by then) etc.

She started therapy, felt better, supported my relationship again. We listened to podcasts, met other local polyamory folks, etc. Then a few months after, the same behavior happened. My wife got upset and jealous that I had another partner, tried to force me to breakup, telling me I should only love her (while she kept her partners)

Then the relationship with my partner ended (unrelated reasons) a few months ago. We kept in touch and want to restart a relationship in a few months when some issues get sorted out.

But now my wife is now absolutely against the idea of polyamory. She broke up with her last partner. She doesn’t want me to even be friends with my ex-partner. She keeps telling me she leaves in coonstant fear I am going to leave her if I have other relationships.

We are both in therapy. My wife therapsit diagnosed her with a personality disorder due to childhood trauma, which explains in part the flip flopping and deep fears of being abandoned.

I am trying to figure out what to do. I love my wife and I hate to see her like that. At the same time, i can’t be inauthentic with her. She keeps asking if I am the only one she loves, when she knows I also love my ex-partner. Lately she has been threatening to leave the marriage if I don’t promise her that I will never contact my ex-partner again and commit I will never want polyamory (but my wife is ok with swinging)

My therapist has been encouraging me to be confident and express my authentic selves, which I have been doing.

I am also working through a lot of resentment. My wife brought polyamory in our marriage when she met someone and when it finished, she decided she no longer wanted polyamory for herself and for me.

Anybody has gone through the same issues? Any tips?

 

[Magdlyn]

It's hard trying to have a serious romantic relationship with someone with an untreated mental illness or a personality disorder. I am glad she's in therapy and I hope treatment will start to stabilize her. I wonder if she has borderline personality disorder. I know it can be difficult to treat. (My daughter has it. She could do certain things that were annoying, basically act anyway she wanted, but if someone else did those things, she'd complain.)

Did you never suspect she had a mental/neurological disorder in the prior 20 years? Maybe the distraction of having kids and swinging kept her acting in a way that you could sustain your relationship. But now that feelings of "love" are happening for you, she feels insecure and fearful of loss, which results in jealousy and ultimatums.

I don't know you at all, but having had the experience of living with a person with borderline, I feel sympathy. It's not just polyamory that's an issue, probably. Have you read the book Stop Walking on Eggshells? It's a great book written by a person with BPD, and give great ideas for how to set boundaries with a person that acts the way your wife seems to be acting.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

It's a lot to be dealing with a spouse who has a personality disorder. It can feel like punching fog.

In case this helps you any:

Out of the FOG

Helping family members & loved-ones of people who suffer from personality disorders.

outofthefog.website

But now my wife is now absolutely against the idea of polyamory. She broke up with her last partner. She doesn’t want me to even be friends with my ex-partner.

She can want that. You do not have to agree.

She keeps telling me she leaves in coonstant fear I am going to leave her if I have other relationships.

You can tell her you aren't going to leave her just because you have other relationships.

You can tell her you are willing to do couples counseling and encourage her to think about individual counseling to address her fear. But the reality is that EITHER ONE OF YOU could choose to walk away if THIS relationship becomes unhealthy or unsustainable.

I am also working through a lot of resentment. My wife brought polyamory in our marriage when she met someone and when it finished, she decided she no longer wanted polyamory for herself and for me.

She can choose to stop poly dating on her side. She might want you to quit too. But why did you pick that? Your choices do not have to match your wife's, even if she wants them to. You get to make your own choices.

Are you able to tell her, "No, thanks. I won't be doing that," and maintain strong personal boundaries?

Anybody has gone through the same issues? Any tips?

Honestly, my BPD relatives/friends are a pain in the ass sometimes, so I decided that I would NOT date anyone with mental health stuff. People can't help having things, but my quota is FULL. So, diabetes? No prob. Heart condition? OK. But MORE mentally ill people? Nope. I don't have the spoons.

My "top" patient is my Dad with Alzheimer's and other things, on top of his BPD. I told him point blank I am too much like him. I'm stubborn, I am not gonna sugarcoat anything, and yeah, sometimes he's just not gonna like what I tell him. But he can know I tell him the truth. The result? He tantrums much less with me because he feels SAFE. He needs ME to be the "container," cuz he can't.

And no, he doesn't like it when things don't go his way, but he fusses a whole lot less with me than anyone else because I call him on his BS and remain unimpressed when he's having a cow. I also manage him better so he's not over-stimulated and not losing it in the first place.

My mom is too much of a "softie spouse" with him.

And OMG, the "loyalty tests."

I don't know if that helps you. I encourage you to seek counseling/caregiver support group and educate yourself about her condition.

You can read the "Walking on Eggshells " book free online

Stop walking on eggshells : Mason, Paul T., M.S : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Taking your life back when someone you care about has borderline personality disorder.

archive.org

And the workbook:

The stop walking on eggshells workbook [electronic resource] : practical strategies for living with someone who has borderline personality disorder : Kreger, Randi : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Includes bibliographical references (p. [255]-258) and index

archive.org

YMMV.

I got my mom a tablet so she can read books online in the locked bathroom if she wants to. "Those books" being around the house physically sent my dad into spasms in the beginning. Now he doesn't care and she just reads them. She will show him her other online books and just close the tabs on the medical condition books.

This is something to consider so you can read a book in peace but make it "be gone" when you need it to be gone, if these are the beginning stages for you. It's a lot to learn.

Galagirl

 

[JamesLove]

Thank for your comment.

I didn’t suspect anything. We got married young, busy with raising kids.

My first clue was that by the time I had reached 40, I was isolated. My wife being so anxious of me leaving her, I had slowly cut any friends, family, hobbies.

I proposed swinging as a way to explore together and have fun. It was wild and fun for a few years.

Then my wife wanted to do more solo stuff, which I supported. When it came to my turn, it is when everything imploded. She would continue to have her partners and fun while at the same time imposing strict rules on me.

She used to love my ex-partner, inviting her to our home, she would call her, supported her when she went through personal grief then one day my ex-partner is labeled as a danger and gets discarded and I am expected to discard her.

My wife tends to be fearful avoidant. It used to send me in panic when she would avoid me, withdraw love and I would comply. Thanks to my therapsit, I am realizing how bad I was treating myself.

As you point out, it is not just polyamory. My wife has struggled with my relationship with my mom, sisters, platonic female friends and now romantic.

It is usually the same pattern: she welcomes them at first then something happens inside her, she starts to fear them and then she pushes them out and expect me to do the same as a sign of loyalty.

Thank you for the book recommendation.

 

[GalaGirl]

Did you become her BPD "favorite person," like you are her life raft? That's not healthy for you.

I proposed swinging as a way to explore together and have fun. It was wild and fun for a few years.

Cuz that is doing it TOGETHER. She still has her favorite person with her.

Then my wife wanted to do more solo stuff, which I supported.

Because SHE knows her mind and what's she's doing, and that she's not going anywhere.

When it came to my turn, it is when everything imploded. She would continue to have her partners and fun while at the same time imposing strict rules on me.

Cuz she doesn't know YOUR MIND or those people you picked out. And she might lose her BPD "favorite person."

Is it rational? No. Is it fair? No.

But a BPD person can't always think rationally or be fair, especially when agitated.

She used to love my ex-partner, inviting her to our home, she would call her, supported her when she went through personal grief then one day my ex-partner is labeled as a danger and gets discarded and I am expected to discard her.

That's called splitting a person white or black. When they are good they are SO GOOD. When they are bad they are SO BAD.

My wife tends to be fearful avoidant. It used to send me in panic when she would avoid me, withdraw love and I would comply. Thanks to my therapsit, I am realizing how bad I was treating myself.

I'm glad you have a therapist to help you navigate being the spouse of a person with BPD.

As you point out, it is not just polyamory. My wife has struggled with my relationship with my mom, sisters, platonic female friends and now romantic.

Cuz any one of those people taking your attention means less attention for her. You are the "favorite person."

It is usually the same pattern: she welcomes them at first then something happens inside her, she starts to fear them and then she pushes them out and expect me to do the same as a sign of loyalty.

Push-pull.

Again... read Out of the Fog.

It won't solve everything, but will perhaps give you some "Oh!" lightbulb moments, and maybe more vocabulary to express/explain what's been going on to your therapist, so they can help you. It is hard to talk about things when you don't have enough words.

It lists by traits.

Top 100 Traits & Behaviors — Out of the FOG

of Personality-Disordered Individuals

outofthefog.website

And PD.

Different Types — Out of the FOG

of Personality Disorders

outofthefog.website

Some of the things, she's not doing on purpose. But that doesn't make it OK or acceptable behavior.

She is responsible for managing her condition(s) and cleaning up her messes, if she makes any.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello JamesLove,

That's really ***, the way your wife has been acting lately, it's like she has had some kind of psychological break. I guess she has kind of hit you with an ultimatum: Stop being polyamorous or else she will divorce you. You have to decide how much this marriage is worth to you. Is it worth giving up polyamory? but then I don't think she just wants you to give up the practice; she wants you to give up the *inclination.* I don't know if you can wave a magic wand and change how you feel. You may have to lie to her. "No, I no longer want polyamory." "Yes, you're the only one I love." And will she believe you? How good of a liar are you? Basically she is demanding that you *convince* her that you have successfully stopped wanting a polyamorous relationship. If you can't do that, is there any point in trying?

It sounds like this isn't the first time your wife has acted *** toward you. I would be very wary about caving in to her demands. Listen to your therapist. Learn all you can about personality disorders. Look for a support group in your area. I hope you can get through this with your sanity intact.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

 

[JamesLove]

I'm sorry you struggle.

It's a lot to be dealing with a spouse who has a personality disorder. It can feel like punching fog.

In case this helps you any:

Out of the FOG

Helping family members & loved-ones of people who suffer from personality disorders.

outofthefog.website

Thank you for the link. I started reading it. Wow. It describes so many of my situations I have to deal with.

My wife was diagnosed with CPSD and DID (multiple personalities) due to severe childhood trauma she had no idea about.

My therapist noticed I had a tendency to people please when things get tough and I have had a hard time setting healthy boundaries with her at times.

She can want that. You do not have to agree.

I have told her that I want to be polyamorous, that I hope I can get back with my ex-partner or find somebody new if that doesn’t work out. I am ok not having a partner now but it is not something I want to give up on. I have been very clear about that with my wife.

You can tell her you aren't going to leave her just because you have other relationships.

My therapist suggested a similar phrasing, keep reassuring her that I am leaving her, that I am working on our marriage and that I want other relationships.

You can tell her you are willing to do couples counseling and encourage her to think about individual counseling to address her fear. But the reality is that EITHER ONE OF YOU could choose to walk away if THIS relationship becomes unhealthy or unsustainable.

We started counseling for polyamory. My wife suggested we find a polyamory therapist a few months ago and she has been engulfed in debilitating fears that I am planning on leaving her, that I loved my partner more than her, etc.

She can choose to stop poly dating on her side. She might want you to quit too. But why did you pick that? Your choices do not have to match your wife's, even if she wants them to. You get to make your own choices.

Are you able to tell her, "No, thanks. I won't be doing that," and maintain strong personal boundaries?

Yes, I have been clear and I have set strong boundaries. She has been trying to force me to tell my ex-partner I am no longer interested and I have told her no, because I don’t want to.

My therapist has been helping me realize I need to make decisions that are in my best interest and not default to people please.

Honestly, my BPD relatives/friends are a pain in the ass sometimes, so I decided that I would NOT date anyone with mental health stuff. People can't help having things, but my quota is FULL. So, diabetes? No prob. Heart condition? OK. But MORE mentally ill people? Nope. I don't have the spoons.

My "top" patient is my Dad with Alzheimer's and other things, on top of his BPD. I told him point blank I am too much like him. I'm stubborn, I am not gonna sugarcoat anything, and yeah, sometimes he's just not gonna like what I tell him. But he can know I tell him the truth. The result? He tantrums much less with me because he feels SAFE. He needs ME to be the "container," cuz he can't.

And no, he doesn't like it when things don't go his way, but he fusses a whole lot less with me than anyone else because I call him on his BS and remain unimpressed when he's having a cow. I also manage him better so he's not over-stimulated and not losing it in the first place.

My mom is too much of a "softie spouse" with him.

Sorry to hear that. It is hard to be married with someone with a personality disorder. Especially when you mean well and have a big heart. It is very easy to get sucked in without realizing.

And OMG, the "loyalty tests."

Omg thank you for that

I don't know if that helps you. I encourage you to seek counseling/caregiver support group and educate yourself about her condition.

I am in weekly therapy

You can read the "Walking on Eggshells " book free online

Stop walking on eggshells : Mason, Paul T., M.S : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Taking your life back when someone you care about has borderline personality disorder.

archive.org

And the workbook:

The stop walking on eggshells workbook [electronic resource] : practical strategies for living with someone who has borderline personality disorder : Kreger, Randi : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Includes bibliographical references (p. [255]-258) and index

archive.org

Thank you

YMMV.

I got my mom a tablet so she can read books online in the locked bathroom if she wants to. "Those books" being around the house physically sent my dad into spasms in the beginning. Now he doesn't care and she just reads them. She will show him her other online books and just close the tabs on the medical condition books.

This is something to consider so you can read a book in peace but make it "be gone" when you need it to be gone, if these are the beginning stages for you. It's a lot to learn.

Galagirl

Thank you

 

[JamesLove]

Did you become her BPD "favorite person" like you are her life raft? That's not healthy for you.

I don’t know if she has BPD and if I am her favorite person. She has DID where she literally has different personalities (different names, age, tastes, sexual orientations, etc) in a single body. For years I didn’t realize it (nor did my wife) but all the personalities make who she is, but sometimes one is unhappy, or get scared, and they highjack the front and pretend to be my wife but they are not reallly. They are defensive personalities created to protect her when she was being severely abused as a kid.

The favorite person concept applies however. The part of her that pretends to be my wife has this idea that I should be her everything and that she should be my everything. But she also has other parts that are more idenpendent, don’t see me as their husband and just want to sleep around or have boyfriends.

Cuz that is doing it TOGETHER. She still has her favorite person with her.



Because SHE knows her mind and what's she's doing. And that she's not going anywhere.



Cuz she doesn't know YOUR MIND or those people you picked out. And she might lose her BPD "favorite person."

Is it rational? No. Is it fair? No.

But a BPD person can't always think rational or fair esp when agitated.

Yes it is very irrational

That's called splitting a person white or black. When they are good they are SO GOOD. When they are bad they are SO BAD.

Wow so insightful. She has done that so many times. She doesn’t have any friends. Even her romantic partners she can’t keep because at one point they become SO BAD.

Glad you have therapist to help you navigate being a BPD spouse.



Cuz anyone of those people taking your attention means less attention for her. You are the "favorite person."



Push-pull.

Again... read Out of the Fog.

It won't solve everything but perhaps give you some "Oh!" lightbulb moments. And maybe more vocab to express/explain what's been going on to your therapist so they can help you. It is hard to talk about things when you don't have enough words.

It lists by traits.

Top 100 Traits & Behaviors — Out of the FOG

of Personality-Disordered Individuals

outofthefog.website

And PD.

Different Types — Out of the FOG

of Personality Disorders

outofthefog.website

Thank you so much for all of that. Very insightful and yes it is helping me put words in my mouth.

Some of the things she's not doing on purpose. But that doesn't make it ok or acceptable behavior to do.

She is responsible for managing her condition(s) and cleaning up her messes if she makes any.

That is one I have noticed she doesn’t take responsibility on. She creates messes, hurt people, destroy relationships but she justifies her actions.

I discussed that specific point with her therapist and she clearly said that my wife is responsible for the actions of the other identity parts. Actually all of them are responsible when one messes up. Before my wife (or the part that likes to say she is my wife) would deny any responsibilities because another part did something stupid.

Galagirl

 

[JamesLove]

Hello JamesLove,

That's really ***, the way your wife has been acting lately, it's like she has had some kind of psychological break. I guess she has kind of hit you with an ultimatum: Stop being polyamorous or else she will divorce you. You have to decide how much this marriage is worth to you. Is it worth giving up polyamory? but then I don't think she just wants you to give up the practice; she wants you to give up the *inclination.* I don't know if you can wave a magic wand and change how you feel. You may have to lie to her. "No, I no longer want polyamory." "Yes, you're the only one I love." And will she believe you? How good of a liar are you? Basically she is demanding that you *convince* her that you have successfully stopped wanting a polyamorous relationship. If you can't do that, is there any point in trying?

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. I want to be authentic but I have to pretend I magically stopped loving my ex-partner and that I am not interested in dating anyone.

It sounds like this isn't the first time your wife has acted *** toward you. I would be very wary about caving in to her demands. Listen to your therapist. Learn all you can about personality disorders. Look for a support group in your area. I hope you can get through this with your sanity intact.

Thank you. I am not caving in to her demands. I tried that route, sacrificed friendships to make her feel better and she didn’t feel better and I felt that I neglected myself.
My therapist has been working on that with me.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

thank you

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm glad "Out of the Fog" helped you learn some new words and helped you "name" some of the stuff that's been going on.

Read the page on

Relationships — Out of the FOG

Personality-disordered relationship types

outofthefog.website

Keep working with your therapist.

My wife was diagnosed with CPSD and DID (multiple personalities) due to severe childhood trauma she had no idea about.

Thanks for explaining that.

That is one I have noticed she doesn’t take responsibility on. She creates messes, hurt people, destroy relationships but she justifies her actions.

"Righteous anger" and "justice" might be something her conditions have her really sensitive about, even when she's thinking all wonky, like PERCEIVED injustice to her, rather than actual. And angry can feel more powerful than hopelessly depressed. Neither is "fun," but "angry" maybe feels "better." YKWIM?

She might also just like throwing her weight around. Not every patient is nice. Some get nasty. My Dad does that.

He learned long ago tantrums = getting his way faster because others get embarrassed or annoyed or want to be rid of him faster. I also think since he can't regulate and control it, he thinks it is better to be thought a mean cranky man, than to admit he can't control himself and be seen as "weak."

I discussed that specific point with her therapist and she clearly said that my wife is responsible for the actions of the other identity parts. Actually all of them are responsible when one messes up. Before my wife (or the part that likes to say she is my wife) would deny any responsibilities because another part did something stupid.

She IS responsible, whether she wants to own it or not.

Thank you. I am not caving in to her demands. I tried that route, sacrificed friendships to make her feel better and she didn’t feel better and I felt that I neglected myself.
My therapist has been working on that with me.

Yup. Don't "people please" the patient. Be firm about your boundaries and what you will and will not put up with.

You didn't cause her condition, you can't cure it, you cannot control it.

If she's hell bent on having a cow, she herself may not be able to control it once it takes off. She's gonna have it. It's like getting on the train and that train just GOES til it tires her out or it slows down enough so she can jump off it ok.

Me, if I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, I'm just not gonna do anything, cuz it's less work for me.

My patient Dad can think whatever. So long as he's reasonably safe, alright. Have a cow then. Ride that train, Dad.

I'll intervene if I deem it necessary, but if it is just dumb to me, why bother? Like when he spends the afternoon writing nutty letters to the newspaper, all in a huff, it passes the time, and I can offer to "mail it for him" and just chuck it. Or if he sneaks one into the mailbox himself, oh well, the newspaper has staff to read and screen. My dad writing them a complaining weird letter won't be their first one. Why should I get excited about that?

You learn to think differently as a caregiver. What's worth getting excited about and what isn't worth it. You have to save your spoons and maintain your OWN well being.

You will have to figure out what resources work best for you. They won't always be under the title of her condition(s) but in "close enough" books or totally different.

I brought Becky Bailey's "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" back down from the shelf for help managing my Dad even though my kids were all past that age. The stuff still worked with adult him.

Hang in there with it.

Galagirl