I question myself sometimes

Bowvine

New member
I'm new to this forum and lifestyle but I wanted some feedback on an issue that I have had and am hoping some people here will have some insight to share.

I know there aren't any set of rules to make this work, but from what I've understood from my reading, if a relationship is to work as an open one, both partners in the initial relationship must be secure, or feel that way in order for it to work. I wanted to explain my situation here, because I am having trouble. I'm hung up on a certain thing and I am hoping perhaps I can get some feedback to help me look at things more objectively.

Earlier in the year the woman I am in love and I opened our relationship. She went on a couple dates with a guy and nothing panned out. She went in and out of saying she wanted to hang out with this guy. She would say I wish he'd stop calling and get the idea, etc. Then she would be like, I'm going to hang out with him because I want to hear how things are going. So time went on and she came to say that a poly relationship would not work in the community that we live in. It's too small. Later on, about a month later, she said she was going to hang with this guy, the one she wasn't interested in during April. She said she was going up to see him without romantic intentions. However, the next day I asked if they were intimate and was told not in the way I think. But they did kiss she said. Three weeks later, I found out that she had performed oral sex on him that day.

I am hung up on this. The three weeks later, I had finally gotten comfortable with the idea of her being sexual with someone else. I had to get over the fact that they kissed, but I wasn't comfortable with it going further. I have fears around this that I have explained to her. But finding out 3 weeks later that she had oral sex with the guy on pretty much their first date, has really put a damper on my attitude. She had said that she hardly knew the guy and she wouldn't be jumping into bed with him. She had said I need to have faith in her ability to make decisions. I did, but now I don't. I felt deceived and betrayed. Like my feelings weren't taken into consideration. I told the both of them that I am fine with them seeing each other but I was hoping they could take the physical part slower so that I could be more comfortable with that idea. They both said no.

This all does not sit well with me. I am of the belief that polyamory is about cultivating relationships and intimacy, where things might progress into something more, but prior, it is about getting to know each other. To me this situation seems more like a swinger thing. As I was not comfortable with it, and things went down, it also feels like a cheater type thing. I don't like that. My partner swears she loves me the same and that things are the same between us, but I've been hurt really bad and I can't seem to get the thought out of my head.

Does anyone have some feedback or suggestions for me? My hang up is on the physical side of things and around going to a place that I feel is very special with someone on the first date. That combined with the feeling of deception has really got me in a tailspin when I had come so far the past couple weeks. I felt like I was really getting a grip on all of this emotionally, not just intellectually. However, the thought keeps running through my head, "she deceived you, she jumped into bed with him on the first date."

See, I consider it their first date, because the first two they went on in April, she had said the guy only talked about himself and that is why she was unable to tell him about me. The guy didn't know about me until I told him one day when I ran into him.

The "I question myself sometimes" part of this is, am I fucking crazy for feeling this way? Am I a psycho or a control freak for asking that things slow down so I can be more comfortable? I think about just getting rid of the feelings, trying to lose them somehow, but someone told me today that I might not be able to get rid of them right now because I am supposed to be feeling them. I pretty much swing up and down as far as feeling content with the situation to feelings of anger and sadness.
 
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greenearthal

New member
From the way you describe things, it sounds like communication (and perhaps even honesty) are not very important to her. It's hard to build on top of such a shaky foundation.

Relationships are easier in the long term if you face up to the truth --even the difficult truths-- in the short term. I sounds as though you are willing to work on communication but are not getting much cooperation which will often make things much harder over the long term.
 

Fidelia

New member
You asked her a direct question, "were you intimate with him?".
You receive a deceptive answer, then three weeks later were told or found out the truth. :eek:

Your girl said one thing and did another. :mad:

Straight up, BrotherMan: she is not ready to be in any form of honest, grown up relationship, poly, mono or other.

My heart goes out to you. You clearly deserve to be treated with more respect and consideration.
 

AutumnalTone

New member
She lied. No relationship, mono or poly, romantic or platonic, can survive long with that happening. Before you worry about anything else, that issue needs to be resolved.
 

secondchance

New member
I think that honest communication is the most important part of any relationship, and she doesn't sound like she can do that. Cheating can still exist in poly relationships, too.
 

Bowvine

New member
She said to me that she was trying to protect my feelings. I don't quite believe this is true. I think she was protecting herself because she was not transparent with her motives prior to going to the other guys house. She knew how I felt going up there, she just chose to ignore it.

I kept and keep telling her I need to feel secure before things with her other man can progress. I never quite understood until today that more than likely, the reason I'm hung up on this one incident is because she was dishonest with me. Withholding the truth seems to be along the lines of deception just like neglect is as much abuse as its more direct mechanisms.

She suggested that we see a counselor around our relationship. I have benefits that will allow me and her to visit some couples counselor six times for free. I spoke to three different ones in the area and only two seem to have worked with poly couples.

I'm not perfect by any means, I have to say that this whole situation has brought out a pretty ugly part of myself. My blood was on fire it seemed when I found out, from the other guys girlfriend. I would say I was angry, but really I was full of rage. However, I did calm down and but my anger channels into words and is not conducive to any sort of communication.

When we try to talk out things, I can't bring up my feelings around this one incident as she says she understands I'm hurt, but she doesn't feel she did anything wrong. I guess I hope that talking in a moderated environment might help address this situation or at least allow me to be heard by her without having her run away or shut me out. I think my hang is that she hasn't taken responsibility for her actions.

Thank you for the feedback, sadly it was not what I wanted to hear, but then again, I'm not sure I was looking for any specific answer. After all, this movie, that I seem to play a main role in, is not directed by me. I also think one of the topics below is talking about this exact situation, just from the perspective of the other relationship.
 
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Quath

New member
You have to proceed at a comfortable pace so you can feel secure with each step. However, she did more harm by showing she will lie to you (or herself) in the porocess. She needs to back off and really decide how she is going to handle herself. Relationships have to be based on communication and honesty. She is failing at both of these for now. (You may be guilty of stuff, but I can only go on what you have said so far.)

As for the first date being appropriate for oral sex or just a kiss, that is something that should be communicated up front. A lot of polyamory is realizing that your assumptions are not necessarily other people's assumptions. So you need to be able to clarify it. For example, talk about what you are comfortable with. She can say shwt she would like to do. Talk through some possible situations. Make it so that honesty is the best decision she can go with.

i wish you well.
 

Fidelia

New member
She lied to you, but thinks she hasn't done anything wrong.

Orginal transgression aside, she LIED to you. And now stands by her decision to do so. She was not protecting your feelings, she was covering her own ass.

Now she is playing mind games with you, and (from what you've written) shows no sign of stopping any time soon. Be warned, BrotherMan, that as long as that behavior works for her she will continue it. If you want her to change that behaviour, you have to change your response to it.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but the thing is what it is. But you deserve to be treated with respect, love and consideration.

I sincerely wish you well as you face this challenge.
 

redpepper

New member
Perhaps the girl got carried away in the moment? Perhaps she was so thrilled that some guy wanted her other than you that she thought she had better reward him? Perhaps she was just plain scared to tell you at the time and took what she mistakenly thought was the easy way out? Perhaps she is really not ready for a relationship of honesty, openness, integrity, respect, dignity and commitment to communication no matter what? Perhaps she just doesn't want to, or can't live up to the task and hard work of being poly (or any relationship for that matter).

Bottom line is though that if she shows no concern or remorse in the light of your rage over this lie she produced then she is not worth your time....

you seem to be seriously considering poly and a healthy relationship.... go get one.
 

Tech

New member
I feel for you. I am in a similar situation - albeit different in it's own unique way.

My wife has told me a few "little white lies" during the time she has been with her friend. One incident I can think of off-hand was where I asked her not to cyber with him while she was at home and I was at work (he lives 2 states away). When I IM'd her during work, she said things were "fine, nothing going on". A day or two later I asked her in person and she confessed she had cybered that night. Now, I know different situations, different transgressions, etc, but it was still her telling me a lie in the moment. I've since forgiven her, truly.

I guess I try to also see her point of view, and the "caught up in the moment" reason is probably the best I've heard. Their NRE is intense, and they find it difficult to control themselves, I can sympathize, but it also makes me jealous of what they have.

We are 99% honest and open with each other. I know we strive for 100%, but I have yet to see where that is truly possible.

Bottom line: You need to feel like you can trust her...like the times she might tell you a falsehood ARE few and far between (or never), or for the best interest at that time. (Honestly I would've been angry with her while at work, and her lying to me at that specific time might've been best as we could talk about it face-to-face later.)

I hope no one here flames me for having a slightly different take on this, but this is just my 2 cents.
 

NeonKaos

Custodian
What does it mean "to cyber"?

I've never heard that term used as a verb before.

Is is short for "having cyber-sex", like talking dirty, only with text messages?

Or does it mean something else, and if so, what?

I don't like that term "cyber-sex" because it sounds like something the Borg Collective does. Kind of like a "furrie-fetish" only with robots and androids.

It actually sort of describes the relationship I have with my Hitachi vibrator.
 

MonoVCPHG

New member
and the "caught up in the moment" reason is probably the best I've heard. Their NRE is intense, and they find it difficult to control themselves, I can sympathize, but it also makes me jealous of what they have.

.

This is fine if you learn from it and don't repeat it. That is the benefit of making mistakes. They teach us about ourselves if we choose to learn from them. The key is to chose to learn from them and not start a perpetual cycle.
 

Bowvine

New member
Well she says she was 'moved' to do it. However, she knew what she had told me prior, as in, they were not even dating at the time. I read this informative link I found in the general discussion forum about cheating in a poly relationship. It talked about getting "caught up" in the moment, but how humans have the power to control their actions. It also talks about owning ones actions, in this case, she hasn't done that.

She withheld the information to protect her own feelings. If she wanted to protect mine, and cared about how I felt, she would have been honest from the start and she wouldn't have gone down on the guy. That's how I feel. I don't think my feelings were considered in this, and that seems to be the problem along with feeling lied to... I'm not sure where it is going to go from here. We're going to counseling tomorrow, hopefully we can actually cover some ground.
 

Tech

New member
What does it mean "to cyber"?
Well, the way I was using it is that since they are in different states, one of the only ways they can be "intimate" together while apart is to tell each other what they'd like to do if they were together, talk dirty, moan, get off and help each other get off best they can. Anyways, that's what I was referring to, hope it clarifies.


Yes Mono, completely agree that it is something to learn from and not repeat over and over and ask forgiveness over and over, that's not a growing relationship.


Bowvine, all your points are very valid as they have to do with feelings of betrayal, promises broken, etc. I'm not familiar yet with the "rules" of cheating in a poly relationship, but if it feels wrong to you, then it probably needs to be discussed with the group. You (as I find myself in the same situation) will probably be the one trying to slow down the intimacy and physicality of their relationship if for no other reason than to ensure that it is based on love rather than sex. And they need to listen, respect and discuss this with you, not just go off at their own pace.
 

ourquad

New member
I'm sorry but I do not think "caught up in the moment" is an excuse. I've been on the recieving end of that and it was bullshit. I could get caught up in a moment but I do not but myself in a position that has the potential to lead to crossing boundaries that have been set. I try to put myself in the other's person's postion more than most do. I think that is because of all the wrongs that were done to me in the beginning of this relationship. I will tell you that one of the absolutely biggest hurts I've been dealt was form the three of them together and they used this excuse. Yet two of the three will tell you that I entered their heads more than once while doing what they did. Tells me they knew they shouldn't be doing what they were.

Enough of that. Other than to say...the two that thought of me and will admit they knew at the time I would be hurt, have since asked for forgiveness. The third, well, she has tried to make my pain somehow reflect that I was treating her wrongly. Kitten never likes to be held accountable and will always try to make something about her.

Then there's the fact that she lied to you. Ok, she did this. But when you asked her, she denied it. A lie is one of the worst things you can do to me. And lies of omission can be just as bad. Some people just do not like to admit they are lies as well.

No remorse...to me that means she would be willing to cross boundaries again for her own pleasure regardless of how it will make you feel.

I'm sorry to be so harsh. Counseling is probably your best option here. Thankfully, you are going to seek that out. I wish you luck. I will tell you that the issues you are facing are not due to being poly. They are issues faced in monogamous relationships as well. They could be described, I guess, as personality issues.

Again, good luck and let us know how things are going.

Vol
 

secondchance

New member
OP - "Protecting your feelings" is one of the first ways a relationship can go wrong, IMO. I'm sorry to say this and it is only my opinion... but also, this is a recent thing for you guys, and maybe you can still make the relationship work. If you really think you could make this work then I think it is a good thing you are going to counseling. I wish you the best of luck.
 
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Bowvine

New member
Thank you for all your support and responses. Much appreciated.

We had our first counseling session and I've been doing a ton of soul searching around all this. My partner maintains that she did not act in deceptive, at least not intentionally. I was asked by the therapist to do some thinking on if I can actually be in a poly relationship. I do believe in myself and that I am able to do this. I actually sat down with the guy my partner is seeing for dinner last night. It was a good experience as we were able to gain some perspective and address some concerns. Very respectful. As it turns out, I have a bit in common with this fellow, which is not too surprising since I'm in love with the woman he is interested in.

The problem seems to be the way in which this was handled by my partner. She is on the defensive and extremely accusatory at the moment. I can empathize with her feeling a little cornered, but I have my own feelings around it.

Like I told the other guy, my main concern is I do not want to lose what I share with her, however, I need to take care of myself as well. It was her desire to open the relationship so I had a lot of homework to do around my feelings and prior programming. It seems though, she wants a poly relationship, but does not want to invest the effort to work through the difficulties that arise.

As it is now, I've been able to step out of my comfort zone, be honest not just with myself, but with the others involved. I've connected on a higher level with two completely new people and I feel that my communication skills and method of handling uncomfortable feelings are maturing.

Even though things are rocky at the moment, I really feel like this is possible and that beautiful possibilities are endless if the effort is made to make things work.

Things right now, are up in the air, as far as my partner and I staying together. She has some unaddressed issues that aren't things I have done, though she blames me for them being brought up in all of this. Nonetheless, I appreciate the feedback and for the read from all of you.
 

redpepper

New member
Nothing like poly to dredge up EVERYTHING! Unfortunately she will have to expect more of the same until all the work is done. There is no way around it, she has to go right through it and deal.

It sounds like you are strong and learning some amazing things for yourself. Isn't it great. It feels so good to be on top of your game, learning, growing, really living! I'm happy for you as I know how wonderful that feels to be riding high and standing proud for all you have accomplished.

If your relationship does end, you will have grown and will be ready for something better. If it doesn't, with this new way of being and your new strength, you will have an even richer relationship for it. Provided she does the work too that is.
 
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