I'm here to discuss mine and others' poly rels.

Nowhereman

Member
Hi all! I'm a Ukrainian who moved to Israel 2.5 years ago. But "moved to" is just "a good word". More correct is to say I'd stuck here. I planned to look around for 3-4 months. But then lockdown. Then news from Ukraine about the new government completely losing the battle with covid. Then the war. And here I am - accepting the fact I live in Israel for an indefinite time (maybe forever).

Don't get me wrong. If I hadn't had severe health issues, I'd be on the front line in Ukraine not only in 2022 - but starting from 2014. But with these issues, I'd make more problems than help there.

I'm 45 (almost 46) now. I first heard about polyamory from my two young female friends who were together as a couple in 2015 - they proposed to me to become their common boyfriend and live together. It seemed weird - my only previous relationship was a long-time monogamous marriage (no kids, though). But at the same time, I felt happy - I'd have feelings for both of them. If they proposed instead to choose one of them to be a couple, I'd refuse because I couldn't choose. We lived for happy 19 months in our open triad.

Since then, I've understood I was polyamorous for my whole life - and didn't have monogamous relationships anymore. Most of my relationships were open polycules - but it's a long story.

So, now I live lonely in Hadera, Israel. I don't seek a new relationship now. But if there're other people from Israel - I'd like you to PM me. And from different parts of the world - feel free to contact me too, even though we can communicate only virtually.
 
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kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Greetings Nowhereman,

Welcome back, and thanks for the update on your situation. Sorry to hear you are stuck in Israel, I don't mean Israel is a bad place, it is just bad being stuck there without having any choice in the matter.

I'm glad your experience has been a positive one so far. It is nice to know that you don't have to choose between partners. I'm sorry you got separated from your open triad of 19 months, I hope it wasn't because of the poly.

If you want to chat with me, just send a PM. Or we can chat on this thread, I am an open book, and would be fine either way. As always it's great to have you with us.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

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Nowhereman

Member
Greetings Nowhereman,

Welcome back, and thanks for the update on your situation. Sorry to hear you are stuck in Israel, I don't mean Israel is a bad place, it is just bad being stuck there without having any choice in the matter.
Israel is definitely a good place - but it's too different compared to Ukraine. So I needed a long time to accept the fact I live here now. During the last few weeks, it's starting to get better.

I'm glad your experience has been a positive one so far. It is nice to know that you don't have to choose between partners. I'm sorry you got separated from your open triad of 19 months, I hope it wasn't because of the poly.
No, poly was a grand opening and freedom for all three of us. It was because the girls decided to travel to Asia (and stayed there finally) - and I remained in Ukraine. Fortunately, all my poly rels ended peacefully, and we stayed friends for quite a long time with all my exes.

If you want to chat with me, just send a PM. Or we can chat on this thread, I am an open book, and would be fine either way. As always it's great to have you with us.
I prefer to continue here if you don't mind. So other people could join the discussion if they want.

Thank you for the notes.
 

Eponine

Active member
Welcome! Nice to see someone from less represented parts of the world. How is the poly scene in Ukraine and Israel? Are there poly communities?
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hi Nowhereman,

Cool, we can chat on this thread, if you have any questions about me or my relationships, just let me know.

It sounds like all of the poly partings you have had have been on good terms, no hard feelings. I am assuming that Israel is a more conservative place to live than Ukraine. It's probably harder to find poly connections.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 

Nowhereman

Member
Welcome! Nice to see someone from less represented parts of the world. How is the poly scene in Ukraine and Israel? Are there poly communities?
Yes, there are. In Ukraine, it's more complicated. The Russian barbarians occupied Ukraine (1781-1917 and 1921-1991), provoked Holodomor (artificial famine by the occupants - the genocide of Ukrainians in 1930th), and compulsory resettlement of Russians to "freed" (by killing or deporting Ukrainians and other nations in Ukraine - including Kyrymly, aka Crimean-Tatars) houses or even whole villages and cities. So even now, ancestors of that Russian migrants, together with the so-called "Russian Orthodox-Christian Church in Ukraine" (which is, in fact, a wing of the FSB (former KGB)), propagate "traditional values" - including "traditional family", aggressive homophobia and biphobia. Now Russia does it in Ukraine by using hired by them (that financial connections have been monitored) so-called "Ukrainian nationalists". So it's not easy to be openly polyamorous or any kind of LGBT+ in Ukraine.

But anyway, there are a few polyamorous chats and groups for Ukrainians. I'm one of the first members of the biggest and most active one - it has 500+ members now. I think the amount of poly people in Ukraine is much more significant - but most of them don't want to disclose themselves. This chat has 6-8 (I don't remember exactly) sub-chats "Meetings in *** city" for the biggest cities of Ukraine.

In Israel, it's completely different. It looks unbelievable how an officially religious country could combine it with modern technologies - and values, including tolerance. Especially in big cities like Tel Aviv and Haifa. I've heard a joke from my female friend in Kyiv: "People say Tel Aviv tolerates gays. No. Israel tolerates gays. And Tel Aviv tolerates heteros." And it's true: I hadn't seen so many publicly open gays in Ukraine during my whole life compared to a few nights in Tel Aviv.

Also, Israel totally tolerates polyamory. For instance, a friend of my friend lives in an open polycule. When one of the women gave birth to a new child, they said in a clinic, "We need not one but three permissions to visit the baby and the mother freely." - "Ok. Please take it." No further questions. In Ukraine, it would be unbelievable.
There're a lot of significant poly communities in Israel. But most of them are in Hebrew, which I don't know still, unfortunately. So, for now, I've joined only one - Israeli Non-monogamy (now in English) - with 170+ members.
 

Nowhereman

Member
Cool, we can chat on this thread, if you have any questions about me or my relationships, just let me know.
Thank you. I will - when I get used to this place. )

It sounds like all of the poly partings you have had have been on good terms, no hard feelings.
Oh, there were some hard feelings when my sweethearts needed to move abroad - and I needed to stay in Ukraine. But that was in concord beforehand. That's why we'd stayed friends.

I am assuming that Israel is a more conservative place to live than Ukraine. It's probably harder to find poly connections.
It's quite the contrary - I've described it in my previous post.

The main issue preventing me from finding poly connections here is not knowing Hebrew. And I plan to start working on it in the nearest few days or weeks.
 

Eponine

Active member
Yes, there are. In Ukraine, it's more complicated. The Russian barbarians occupied Ukraine (1781-1917 and 1921-1991), provoked Holodomor (artificial famine by the occupants - the genocide of Ukrainians in 1930th), and compulsory resettlement of Russians to "freed" (by killing or deporting Ukrainians and other nations in Ukraine - including Kyrymly, aka Crimean-Tatars) houses or even whole villages and cities. So even now, ancestors of that Russian migrants, together with the so-called "Russian Orthodox-Christian Church in Ukraine" (which is, in fact, a wing of the FSB (former KGB)), propagate "traditional values" - including "traditional family", aggressive homophobia and biphobia. Now Russia does it in Ukraine by using hired by them (that financial connections have been monitored) so-called "Ukrainian nationalists". So it's not easy to be openly polyamorous or any kind of LGBT+ in Ukraine.

But anyway, there are a few polyamorous chats and groups for Ukrainians. I'm one of the first members of the biggest and most active one - it has 500+ members now. I think the amount of poly people in Ukraine is much more significant - but most of them don't want to disclose themselves. This chat has 6-8 (I don't remember exactly) sub-chats "Meetings in *** city" for the biggest cities of Ukraine.

In Israel, it's completely different. It looks unbelievable how an officially religious country could combine it with modern technologies - and values, including tolerance. Especially in big cities like Tel Aviv and Haifa. I've heard a joke from my female friend in Kyiv: "People say Tel Aviv tolerates gays. No. Israel tolerates gays. And Tel Aviv tolerates heteros." And it's true: I hadn't seen so many publicly open gays in Ukraine during my whole life compared to a few nights in Tel Aviv.

Also, Israel totally tolerates polyamory. For instance, a friend of my friend lives in an open polycule. When one of the women gave birth to a new child, they said in a clinic, "We need not one but three permissions to visit the baby and the mother freely." - "Ok. Please take it." No further questions. In Ukraine, it would be unbelievable.
There're a lot of significant poly communities in Israel. But most of them are in Hebrew, which I don't know still, unfortunately. So, for now, I've joined only one - Israeli Non-monogamy (now in English) - with 170+ members.
Thanks for sharing! That's very interesting. It's amazing how poly-friendly Israel is. Before reading this, I thought neither Ukraine nor Israel would be particularly poly-friendly.
 

Nowhereman

Member
Thanks for sharing! That's very interesting. It's amazing how poly-friendly Israel is. Before reading this, I thought neither Ukraine nor Israel would be particularly poly-friendly.
Yes, we also were surprised. The first resource my GFs found at the beginning of 2015 was an FB group created by Russian-speaking Israelis (the girls didn't know English well enough then). Some of the group members proposed we move to Israel so we could stop hiding our triad rels. But we didn't have the possibility or desire to move here then.

Oh, indeed, it's a bad idea to show your poly rels in religious (Judaic) areas. And I'm not sure about Arabic regions. But it's completely ok in the rest of the country, especially in Tel Aviv and Haifa (the two biggest cities on the sea shore).

First Ukrainian poly resources started appearing at the end of 2015 - beginning of 2016, AFAIR.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
I am quite surprised to hear how tolerant/progressive Israel is. I suppose that makes learning Hebrew a worthwhile endeavor. I do get that the religious areas are more conservative.

It sounds like Russia has a long history of persecuting Ukraine. I am sorry to hear that.
 

Nowhereman

Member
I am quite surprised to hear how tolerant/progressive Israel is. I suppose that makes learning Hebrew a worthwhile endeavor. I do get that the religious areas are more conservative.
Oh, yeah, I was surprised too. In small towns, you usually don't see it in public places. But in Tel Aviv, it's completely normal seeing a guy in a mini-skirt on the street. Or the beginning of the courting between two men in a pub - with first hugs, petting, kisses. Or a couple of young girls on a bus holding hands, gazing at each other lovely, touching hairs and bodies. All three are real examples my best friend (she was visiting me here) and I have seen. In Ukraine, it's difficult to imagine gays being so open in public.

It sounds like Russia has a long history of persecuting Ukraine. I am sorry to hear that.
Yes, Russia pretended to be our "brothers" - although, in reality, they're our worst enemy. Now Russia is trying to occupy Ukraine one more time - and Ukraine is fighting for its own independence. It's impressive how all Ukrainians are united now against our enemy. Recently my friend volunteer needed to collect 30 000 hryvnias (it's about $1000) to buy plate bearings (for flak jackets) for our soldiers. She's not very popular on FB - but they'd have this sum in less than two hours! A ten-years girl (she's a world champion in checkers among preteens) won 21k hryvnias playing checkers with random people in a park - and donated it to the army. Two 13yo boys were singing on a square, collected 64k hryvnias (more than $2000) - and donated it to the army. My friends sold in an auction the painting of the famous Ukrainian artist Maryia Prymachenko for $500k in 4 hours. One of the most popular volunteer foundations collected 600k hryvnias to buy Bayraktar war drones - and the company (when they heard about it) gave these drones for free. These are only examples. There are not dozens - but hundreds or even thousands of such cases. All Ukrainians are united against Russia's fascist regime.
 

Nowhereman

Member
All Ukrainians are united against Russia's fascist regime.
I've read a good meme about it today. I can't find it now, so I'll write it in my own words:
"Make 'Stop fascism!' poster. Try to stay with it in the center of Kyiv. And in the center of Moscow. Where you'd have been arrested - it's a fascist country!" Obviously (for all Ukrainians and Russians at least), you'd have been arrested in Moscow (there are many known cases; the most outrageous - a girl was arrested for standing with an empty sheet of paper) - and not in Kyiv.
 

Eponine

Active member
I've read a good meme about it today. I can't find it now, so I'll write it in my own words:
"Make 'Stop fascism!' poster. Try to stay with it in the center of Kyiv. And in the center of Moscow. Where you'd have been arrested - it's a fascist country!" Obviously (for all Ukrainians and Russians at least), you'd have been arrested in Moscow (there are many known cases; the most outrageous - a girl was arrested for standing with an empty sheet of paper) - and not in Kyiv.
That's a good one. Reminds me of a Russian political joke I read before (copied from this Wikipedia page):

Roosevelt and Stalin are at the meeting. Roosevelt says, "One beautiful thing about America is that we have freedom of speech. That means that anybody can stand in front of the White House and say, 'Roosevelt is a piece of shit' and nobody would pay any attention." Stalin says, "We have freedom of speech in the Soviet Union, too. Anybody can stand in front of the Kremlin and say, 'Roosevelt is a piece of shit' and no one would bat an eye."

The version I read before might have been different, e.g. it might be a conversation between two ordinary people rather than national leaders, and China (where I'm originally from) instead of Soviet Union. A lot of the Russian jokes work for China too lol.
 

Nowhereman

Member
Roosevelt and Stalin are at the meeting. Roosevelt says, "One beautiful thing about America is that we have freedom of speech. That means that anybody can stand in front of the White House and say, 'Roosevelt is a piece of shit' and nobody would pay any attention." Stalin says, "We have freedom of speech in the Soviet Union, too. Anybody can stand in front of the Kremlin and say, 'Roosevelt is a piece of shit' and no one would bat an eye."
Oh, I've heard this joke many times, but about Reagan and Brezhnev - who were the US and the SU leaders in my early childhood (before primary school).

That's a good one. Reminds me of a Russian political joke I read before (copied from this Wikipedia page):
It's even more interesting. The first joke about tsar Nikolay - I've heard the same joke about Brezhnev:
A policeman arrested a man who was going by a street and saying:
- I hate this old fool - I wish him to die.
The man said:
- I've meant my father-in-law.
- Don't try to trick me - we all know who's an old fool in this country. - Said the policeman.

The version I read before might have been different, e.g. it might be a conversation between two ordinary people rather than national leaders, and China (where I'm originally from) instead of Soviet Union. A lot of the Russian jokes work for China too lol.
I've never been to China. My best friend lived there for six months with her then-boyfriend (in 2016 or 2017, I think) and told me something. As I've understood, modern China is not entirely like Russia or SU - but the state authority is quite similar.
 

Eponine

Active member
As I've understood, modern China is not entirely like Russia or SU - but the state authority is quite similar.
Yeah, economically it's definitely not like SU anymore (it used to be pre-1980s). But the authoritarianism and censorship is similar. It's also very LGBTQ-unfriendly, probably no better than Ukraine.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is totally different. Same-sex marriage is legal there, and some groups are advocating for even more diverse family types, such as families with more than two people. They may be thinking of families with platonic friends more than poly families, but it would still be an exciting progress if it became legal.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Well I consider Ukraine to be the most courageous nation on the planet. I wish other nations would be more direct in their support of Ukraine, but at least they are doing sanctions against Russia.

That's encouraging and remarkable that Tel Aviv is so tolerant and supportive of gays and bisexuals. I presume it is supportive of polys as well.
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
There are tons of fundraisers for Ukraine in the US. And people sing the Ukrainian national anthem at US public events, you see Ukrainian flags hung from homes, etc.

I am not overly surprised at the progressive attitudes in Israeli cities. Many "Jews" are only that as far as a national or cultural identity, and are not at all conservative or religious. Jews are taught to deeply question their religion. Many no longer even circumcise their male babies (thank the gods). Orthodox Jews do take the Torah and rabbinical edicts seriously, but do not force it on those outside their circles. :)

I hope you keep adapting and enjoying your new environment. I am sure you miss your country, but if it were me, I'd be glad to be away from the war zone, the terror and displacement and lack of resources, etc.!
 

Nowhereman

Member
Well I consider Ukraine to be the most courageous nation on the planet.
Wow, it's pleasant to hear this! But in some way, I agree. I did expect my compatriots would resist Russia. But I was only 70-80% able to predict _how much_ they would withstand.

I wish other nations would be more direct in their support of Ukraine, but at least they are doing sanctions against Russia.
I'd analyzed only UK's and US's activities - it looks like they want to weaken Russia slowly upon Ukraine.
Johnson's words (I can't find a direct citation now), "The UK wouldn't be against it if Ukraine used the weapons provided by the UK against Russian territories." is a very direct sign.
Biden's visits to Iran and SA are also a sign (although, for Israel, it could be dangerous).

That's encouraging and remarkable that Tel Aviv is so tolerant and supportive of gays and bisexuals. I presume it is supportive of polys as well.
Yes, I have all reasons now to suppose Israel is very poly-friendly too. When I learn Hebrew and can discuss it with all locals, I'd create a new topic here about it.
 

Eponine

Active member
Good luck with your Hebrew learning! Coincidentally, I know someone (from graduate school) who was born in Ukraine and moved to Israel with her family as a child, so she's fluent in Russian, Hebrew and English, which is pretty cool, especially since all three language are quite different.

You'll probably improve quickly if you're forced to speak Hebrew in daily life, but I've heard that it can be difficult in areas with high English prevalence, because locals will just talk to you in English. I imagine most people can speak English in big cities in Israel?
 

Nowhereman

Member
There are tons of fundraisers for Ukraine in the US. And people sing the Ukrainian national anthem at US public events, you see Ukrainian flags hung from homes, etc.
We Ukrainians are thankful to all countries supporting Ukraine - including the US! Although I live in Israel now - I still consider myself Ukrainian (at first) AND Hebrew. So I'm Thankful.

I am not overly surprised at the progressive attitudes in Israeli cities. Many "Jews" are only that as far as a national or cultural identity, and are not at all conservative or religious. Jews are taught to deeply question their religion. Many no longer even circumcise their male babies (thank the gods). Orthodox Jews do take the Torah and rabbinical edicts seriously, but do not force it on those outside their circles. :)
Exactly! Orthodox Jews often propose me on the streets to read about their religion - or to join it immediately. But they _never_ _force_ me to do it. Some of them look a bit strange for non-religious (me) - but most of them are very friendly - like most of non-religious Israeli. In general, Jew as religious - and Jew as citizen - are different things. There are a lot of Israelis who're non-religious at all. And even more of them who're following most of religious traditions - but tolerates western values, including LGBTQ+ and poly. The Judaistic traditions are a part of the national politics here. But the tolerance is also a part of it! I was surprised how they could combine both of them in the same state!

I hope you keep adapting and enjoying your new environment. I am sure you miss your country, but if it were me, I'd be glad to be away from the war zone, the terror and displacement and lack of resources, etc.!
I've found an Ukrainian community in the nearest city (it's like 40-80 minutes to get there by trains/buses). They usually meet weekly. When I learn Hebrew, I plan to find friends in my own town.
 
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