I'm so stupid....

anon4now

New member
I want to start with the fact that this is not a positive poly story but only because of stupid decisions made by me. This is more of a How-not-to-Poly than anything else.

I am 40ish and someone with very few friends but the few I have are the type that would do anything for me and I for them. My wife and children are the center of my life and most EVERYTHING I do, I do for them. I work 2 jobs so that my wife can stay home and be a mom. If we need more money, I find more hours or another job. They are my life.

I have an amazing wife who was my high school sweetheart and is my soulmate. I can't imagine my life without her. We have 2 wonderful children together. We started dating in the 80s and have been married for 15yrs now. Our neighbors and friends see us as the "perfect couple". We honestly never fight. We communicate better than any other couple I know. If something comes up that most couples fight about, we sit down and talk about it.

We are for-the-most-part on the same level of perversion with the exception of her declining libido (which isn't an excuse for my actions). We were eachother's "first" and have done just about everything you can imagine sexually. For a short period of time, we were actively having sex with another married couple. It was sex, no emotional commitment. We had groundrules that we put into place to limit the possibility from becoming emotionally involved in the physical act. No kissing, no activity without the other of us involved etc... We stopped when the other couple divorced due to completely unrelated events (financial). Since we didn't want to find strangers or freak out any of our other friends, we didn't continue the "swinging" lifestyle.

My wife and I have a common friend "M". We all grew up and went through school together. M and I were close and developed a tight bond and then we just lost eachother. For 20 years.

I would google her, look for her family in the phonebooks where I thought she might be... Then one night imagine my PURE DELIGHT when I saw her on another friends Facebook. I e-mailed her immediately and was giddy for weeks as we started to communicate again. I let my wife know that I found her and the three of us met up and had a GREAT time just hanging out and catching up. She became a regular part of our family in a matter of 6 months. She'd come over to watch movies, eat dinner, drink etc... The bond was still there and I was elated to have my 2 best friends in my life, my wife and M.

After about 4 months of having her back in my life, I discovered that I love M. I remember the first time I realized it when I saw her playing with our children and I put together my bond I feel with her and the emotions I was suddenly flooded with. WHAT THE HELL?!!!!

I can't love her! I still love my wife! If I love someone else, I have to divorce because that's what couples do! And I was raised Southern Baptist so now I'm going to hell because I have to get a divorce and I told the preacher and my God that I would not love anyone else after I got married!!! I have to stop loving her. How? I honestly believe (then and now) that M is ALSO my soulmate. I looked it up and learned about Polyamory. I believe that I am Poly in that I love two women with all my heart but I can't imagine either of them with another man. I have read on the forums that this is not uncommon.

Here is where M and I made a STUPID decision (yeah, you knew it was coming). We both discovered the other had shared emotions. We started to privately say "I love you". That is innocent enough. We started to meet for lunch and for coffee. Heck, that isn't bad. People eat and drink coffee all the time. We started to kiss (I was surprised the first time I kissed her because I was slapped with the memory of our primary rule while swinging). We started to fondle. We met at a hotel. I suddenly realized that the two of us turned this into a fully physical AFFAIR!!! THAT WAS THE LAST THING I WANTED!!!! Through all of this, my love for my wife and family never changed. If anything my courting of M re-sparked some of what was lost over time with me and my wife.

M and I never did any of this with the intention of breaking up the family or taking me away from my wife. M knows how much I love my wife and knows that the only thing that would make me kick her to the curb is if she tried to make me love my wife less or choose between the two of them.

Even though we did this horrible thing to my family, M and I still love eachother deeply and my love for my wife has not changed either. We have acknowledge to each other the wrong in what we have done and have stopped the physical portion of our affair. I don't know how to stop loving her though.

We stopped talking for about 4 weeks and that was hell for both of us. I honestly felt as though a family member died. My wife knew something was up because I was genuinely going through the stages of mourning. Since M stopped coming around, I had to lie about why and I told her that I said something that upset M and she's giving me the silent treatment and that I hope she get's over it. Thankfully, M would still call or IM my wife so she wasn't completely changing how things were overnight.

M and I were both doing this and finally we decided we had to talk, to at least be in eachother's lives to remain happy. We both know that we will never stop loving eachother though and that the physical intimacy will never happen again.

My deepest hope is that someday I'll be able to have M back into our family in a completely open poly relationship. I then think to myself "how would I respond if my wife told me that she loves another man and that she wants to add him into our family". I honestly can say that I would be angered and hurt. Then I think to the love that M and I share and realize that she wouldn't be loving me less. Then I feel like a pig but then I realize that I am not in lust with M... It really is love.

How does someone stop loving a soulmate? I am afraid that this is my deserved burden to carry for the rest of my life.

I am not looking for any sympathy or anyone to tell me that I did nothing wrong or that it's not that bad. I am an asshole for doing this to my wife and my family (who still don't and I hope will never know).
 

AutumnalTone

New member
Wow. That's painful! Keep your stick on the ice, man.
 

redsirenn

New member
Ok. Here is another peeve of mine.
First - I am sorry for your pain, truly. Please don't think that I am not.

Its just that - You don't have to stop loving someone!! EVER!

I love sooo many people, it doesn't mean I am in relationships (in all the ways you can define relationships) with them all.

And love is something you give to someone... I firmly believe if you love someone you let them go. Love is not holding on, love is not suffering either...

If you need to for your family , you CAN let this woman go. You can still love her until the day you die, but you can also let her go.

Life isn't fair, love isn't fair, and we don't get either of them for long enough. Cherish what you have and sacrifice when you must.

That's my rant.

I hope is is more empowering than sad.
 
C

Ceoli

Guest
Sounds like you need to make a decision. Either come clean and tell your wife what's going on and ask for what you want in this or give it up and let it go.

Everybody fucks up and does stupid things from time to time. What really matters is how we handle ourselves after realizing how we've fucked up.
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I could say a MILLION things.

I won't.

First-you don't STOP loving someone.
Love doesn't STOP.

That said-if you want a real life version of how a group of people CAN take a fuck up like this and create a beautiful loving poly family-go read the beginning posts by Maca and I. They start in September of this year. If you click on our profiles you can find them...

Good luck.
 

redpepper

New member
It's sadly surprising how common your story is. I always say that it isn't what happened, it's what you do after that counts... you are now in a position of educating others that you see go down a similar path... talking about it helps other realize they are not alone and can make a different choice. I see that as your responsibility now. That is the only way I have found to ease the guilt of cheating and having an affair. Own what you did and turn it around to benefit others.

I totally get that you think you are in love. I would like to suggest that under that circumstance you perhaps thought so as a reaction to something you were not getting out of your relationship with your wife. Perhaps you could look towards her and figure out what that is before anything else...

I totally get that it is possible that the two of you are soulmates. That could be also, but the fact of the matter is that you have a responsibility to your wife first and your family... then to anything outside of that...

Perhaps you can figure out how to make this all work, but in my experience I have not seen a relationship work out (other than LR! who is a miracle :D)for the long haul that starts with cheating. There is quite often too much damage done in that... if you had caught it at the coffee stage, and been honest and open with your wife then, maybe, but I don't hold much hope out..

Really, if I were you I would end it with this woman you say you love and get your integrity back. Maybe then in the future something more respectful will come up that suits you all far better. In this way you can talk afresh about poly and start out on the right foot, rooted in love, respect, connection and with thought for all involved.

good luck my friend, sounds like you made a mess, you and her... don't forget to pass that on to others so they have a chance of not ending up where you are.
 

Quath

New member
I agree with Redpepper that your story is not an uncommon way people discover polyamory. Many polyamory discovery stories are filled with "lessons learned."

On the positive side, I have heard of some poly stories where it did succeed despite an initial affair, but it was not easy for anyone involved. The last one I heard worked because they guy came completely clean. The wife needed about a year to deal and process it all. She set the pace, but in the end, she was able to re-trust her husband and her friend.

But I have also heard these stories turn bad. I hope it works out well for you.
 

redpepper

New member
I agree with Redpepper that your story is not an uncommon way people discover polyamory. Many polyamory discovery stories are filled with "lessons learned."

On the positive side, I have heard of some poly stories where it did succeed despite an initial affair, but it was not easy for anyone involved. The last one I heard worked because they guy came completely clean. The wife needed about a year to deal and process it all. She set the pace, but in the end, she was able to re-trust her husband and her friend.

But I have also heard these stories turn bad. I hope it works out well for you.

WOW, I wish I heard more of these! I can see how that would work.. especially if the partner cheated on sets the pace and actually is willing to move forward.

I guess it really just depends on the circumstance.
 

anon4now

New member
Sorry I haven't followed up with any of the posts, it's been an exciting holiday time with the family.

I feel that I type like I think which is normally rambling. If this bothers you, I will improve as I get more comfortable sharing what's going on and as I understand better what I need to do and how to do it.

I still haven't discussed my issue with my wife but M and I have stopped our physical interactions but still hang out and are close friends. We still tell eachother that we love one another but that is it. We tried to not do that and it just didn't feel right.

I have tried to convince myself that M was just there for me when I was having a need that she was willing to fill and then I tried to convince myself that this is just an infatuation that I let go to far. Nothing I try changes how I feel for her. I continue to love her the same that I love my wife and my children.

I saw where some people responded (some with vigor) that you don't stop loving people (LovingRadiance, I have read up and continue to learn from your experiences THANKS). I know I will never stop loving M just like I would never stop loving my family. I just don't know how to love someone as much as I love her and not feel like part of my soul is missing when she's not there.

Part of me is relieved that my story isn't uncommon and part of me is excited to know that other people who have made my mistake have gone on to experience what I believe my heart and soul needs.

And finally there is a part that is scared to death of bringing this up with my wife and crushing her heart even though I don't love her any less... And there is the fact that I know I would be hurt (at least initially) if she came to me with the same request/statement. Maybe I'd think of M and be able to quickly get my jealousy under control.

Weather or not my wife and I open our marriage is way up in the air. The one thing that I am 100% certain of is that I love my wife, childrean and M all with the same emotions and intensity as the other. I am Poly.

Thanks for letting me ramble and thanks to the board owners who have given us a place to be with like minds.

-more to come-
 

CielDuMatin

New member
OK, in plain language, you cheated on your wife and are having an affair with another woman, and are continuing to (even if there isn't a sexual component) - I think that most people would regard secret meetings and declarations of love to be cheating, whether there is sex there or not.

The big question, I guess, is whether you feel that this is sustainable - and I don't just mean the ability to keep it a secret from your wife, but also your feelings about yourself, knowing that you are doing this.

If you can and want to live with yourself continuing the cheating, then so be it.

If it's something that you can't live with, or choose not to, then I think that you really have some very hard decisions to make.

Either way seems to be very difficult, and I wish you luck.
 

redpepper

New member
I know someone who sustained this kind of life for a couple of years until the guilt became too much and he made a rash decision that meant he lost everything including the woman he had an affair with.

I'm glad to hear you at least have decided to not be physical with her... but it still doesn't take away the fact that you were and that you are continuing to cheat by the fact that you are telling her you love her behind your wife's back.

It's great you found poly, it really is, it's the fact that you are trying to justify your cheating by using poly and that you are looking for an easy way out that is uncomfortable for me.

Sure I know it's human to find an easy way out, but the longer you stay in this with her the more damage you are doing and the bigger challenge in the end. It won't be even close to an easy way out it you continue to see her.

I really think that you are going to have to feel like your soul is ripped out and let her go before getting back on track. You need to be focusing on your family in my opinion and you don't seem to be thinking of them at all, only yourself...
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Sorry I haven't followed up with any of the posts, it's been an exciting holiday time with the family.

I feel that I type like I think which is normally rambling. If this bothers you, I will improve as I get more comfortable sharing what's going on and as I understand better what I need to do and how to do it.

I still haven't discussed my issue with my wife but M and I have stopped our physical interactions but still hang out and are close friends. We still tell eachother that we love one another but that is it. We tried to not do that and it just didn't feel right.

I have tried to convince myself that M was just there for me when I was having a need that she was willing to fill and then I tried to convince myself that this is just an infatuation that I let go to far. Nothing I try changes how I feel for her. I continue to love her the same that I love my wife and my children.

I saw where some people responded (some with vigor) that you don't stop loving people (LovingRadiance, I have read up and continue to learn from your experiences THANKS). I know I will never stop loving M just like I would never stop loving my family. I just don't know how to love someone as much as I love her and not feel like part of my soul is missing when she's not there.

Part of me is relieved that my story isn't uncommon and part of me is excited to know that other people who have made my mistake have gone on to experience what I believe my heart and soul needs.

And finally there is a part that is scared to death of bringing this up with my wife and crushing her heart even though I don't love her any less... And there is the fact that I know I would be hurt (at least initially) if she came to me with the same request/statement. Maybe I'd think of M and be able to quickly get my jealousy under control.

Weather or not my wife and I open our marriage is way up in the air. The one thing that I am 100% certain of is that I love my wife, childrean and M all with the same emotions and intensity as the other. I am Poly.

Thanks for letting me ramble and thanks to the board owners who have given us a place to be with like minds.

-more to come-

Read and learn my friend-then my suggestion is-that when you reach that point where you feel you can talk to your wife-ask her to do the same. Read and learn. Good luck. ;)
 

anon4now

New member
Don't know if there is any interest...

Just because I began here, I thought there might be some interested to hear how things are going. If not, no worries.

I took alot of alone time to think about what I was doing/contemplating. I know that what I've done is cheating and not a healthy poly relationship and I have ended my "investment" with her in that regard. We no longer act like secret bf/gf but we are still friends and I still love her deeply (I still don't know what to do about the longing... does it ever fade... even a little?). There just isn't anymore handholding, "i love you", or anything like that. IF there is ever an opportunity for her to be added to a healthy poly relationship with me and my wife then I will have to tell her about what has happened and deal with the fall out at that time.

The other part of what I was thinking about is am I really poly minded or am I just wanting to have a mistress on the side. I think I have a good understanding of what Poly is based on what I've read in multiple posts here and in speaking with some poly friends. I have a deep love for her that can and will exist without a physical relationship, this isn't just lust or infatuation. I want to do with her what boyfriends and husbands do for their girlfriends and spouses (and what I do for my wife). I want to take care of her when she's sick, has car trouble, has a bad day at work. I want to be the person that she goes to when she needs to vent about having a bad day and then lay her head on my shoulder and cry or sleep. I know I love her but I also know that without my wife in the loop, it's just an afair and I won't do that any more to my family. If it is to happen, it will be with her part of our family in the open.

I'm still wrestling with my own issues of loving another but not thinking I could handle it if my wife or an eventual other were to say they loved another too. I feel like a pig in that way. I guess that is a case of me needing to make sure that an eventual third and my wife are fully aware of my expectations and needs in that regard.

Thank you to those that have sent polite e-mails and actually discussed this with me instead of just labeling what I've done. That has helped more than you will know (or in the case of a couple of you, you know since you came from the same situation).
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I'm still wrestling with my own issues of loving another but not thinking I could handle it if my wife or an eventual other were to say they loved another too. I feel like a pig in that way. I guess that is a case of me needing to make sure that an eventual third and my wife are fully aware of my expectations and needs in that regard.

Thank you to those that have sent polite e-mails and actually discussed this with me instead of just labeling what I've done. That has helped more than you will know (or in the case of a couple of you, you know since you came from the same situation).

Yes my friend, some of us really do know. It's not easy to get "back on track" but it can be done. I'm very proud of you for standing up and doing the right thing in stopping a lie.
I DO understand the heartache of those emotions still being there. I struggled through that one for YEARS. It was well worth it-to allow myself to find out what it was I was really capable of, finding out what it means to be poly and then setting the tables all straight with my husband, and now-that love is fulfilled, as it WAS true between GG and I.

In regards to your concern with your wife ever having a lover. That isn't too unusual-but it IS another sign that you have some work to do. :)
(go figure huh?)

It's not really a poly issue per se. It's more of an acceptance of truth issue. You already KNOW that it's possible to love two people. Because you do.
So-what is it that you fear in your wife potentially loving another?
Go deep my friend, even if you NEVER have a poly relationships, it's well worth the effort to work on your insecurities-and this is an insecurity.

So-another little "been there done that" example.
I'm poly, married to Maca, gf of GG, we live together as a V.
So we worked on our boundary list (every relationship should have one, even mono relationships, they help A LOT). I realized that I am not ready for GG to consider another girlfriend. We talked, I realized that I was afraid of losing him to someone who COULD be his wife.
Really silly actually. Because after 17 years I ought to know he isn't going anywhere.
But with a bit more introspection and a bit of talking it became clear that the biggest issue was that I was afraid, because we've never BEEN a couple in that time.
We decided to agree that for the next bit he won't be looking for a girlfriend ANYWAY since he doesn't have enough time IN HIS OPINION for us, so he wants to wait until we get some of our bills taken care of and less work is needed, more time available-but we'll keep talking when we redo boundaries.
(boundary list should be a "living document" in that it changes as the people in the relationship have changing needs)
Maca was thinking he wanted a girlfriend "right now" because it would be "more fair" since I have GG. But after he really started looking into himself-he figured out he wasn't ready for someone YET. He has some things he wants to work on in himself first.

Overall, when we started digging we found more in ourselves that needed dealt with. When i think about GG having a girlfriend-that doesn't bother me anymore, because I know we're taking some time to settle into our relationship first. That in itself has been enough for me to start looking at potentials for him (sigh) ;).

And with Maca, same thing. Also-he still struggles with some aspects of GG and I. For instance, he doesn't want to think about us having sex-he KNOWS we do, but he doesn't want to see or think about it. He knows it's something he needs to deal with.
When we started this situation, we didn't do ANYTHING in front of him, then we would cuddle on the couch together to watch a movie, then we got to where he could handle our hugging/kissing good night.
Little steps.
Little steps.
Does that make sense? Or is it helpful at all??
:eek:
 

anon4now

New member
VERY HELPFUL!!! Thank you. :: hugs ::

I am still learning about my "wiring" and hope that through more soul searching, I will will grow to understand myself better and to stop trying to beat myself up for not having the "norm" feelings of monogomy.

The other aspect I forgot to comment on was our kids. How do you incorporate a poly relationship into your family when you have kids? I have seen a few posts here about that topic but haven't researched it yet because the main issue of my affair was priority for me to work on.
 

quila

New member
I'm just trying to imagine being your wife when you bring up the idea of a polyamorous relationship and how you want it to look. "Honey, I'm in love with two women, and I want M to come live with us, but I don't want you to have any boyfriends. Ok?" ... Somehow, I can't imagine that going over very well.

It's great that you've reached a point where you can identify as polyamorous. But I think you're only beginning your journey, because it's important to learn about YOUR responsibility is in this lifestyle. Polyamory is about give & take, compromise, and you have to be willing to meet your wife at least half way.

I've seen examples on here of arrangements where a poly person has a mono partner, and they insist that the mono partner be exclusive. When this makes sense to me, it's because of something in the mono person that prevents them (physically or emotionally) from being able to handle more than one romance at a time. Like in my case, my husband works really long hours and comes home tired, just barely (and sometimes not even) enough energy for our one relationship. So if he had to split that limited energy with another person, then my needs could not be met. This is very different from me saying that I want to date other girls, but I don't want him to date other girls because it makes me jealous. That would be a double-standard. If it was my jealousy standing in the way of him dating other girls, it would be my responsibility to deal with my personal issue.
 
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anon4now

New member
I'm just trying to imagine being your wife when you bring up the idea of a polyamorous relationship and how you want it to look. "Honey, I'm in love with two women, and I want M to come live with us, but I don't want you to have any boyfriends. Ok?" ... Somehow, I can't imagine that going over very well.

It's great that you've reached a point where you can identify as polyamorous. But I think you're only beginning your journey, because it's important to learn about YOUR responsibility is in this lifestyle. Polyamory is about give & take, compromise, and you have to be willing to meet your wife at least half way.

I've seen examples on here of arrangements where a poly person has a mono partner, and they insist that the mono partner be exclusive. When this makes sense to me, it's because of something in the mono person that prevents them (physically or emotionally) from being able to handle more than one romance at a time. Like in my case, my husband works really long hours and comes home tired, just barely (and sometimes not even) enough energy for our one relationship. So if he had to split that limited energy with another person, then my needs could not be met. This is very different from me saying that I want to date other girls, but I don't want him to date other girls because it makes me jealous. That would be a double-standard. If it was my jealousy standing in the way of him dating other girls, it would be my responsibility to deal with my personal issue.

I fully agree with what you state... that's why I have to figure out the why and deal with that. I don't want to be jealous when I know how wonderful and OK my love for M is. that's why I'm going to have to do more soul searching... Thank you for your reply though. It helps me to know I'm on the "right path".
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
We have 4 kids. 3 live at home. 18, 10 (almost) and 2 years. They all know we're poly. They all are ok with it. In fact the 10 year old thinks that if we weren't that would be weird.

It's all a matter of how you choose to act, and how you choose to teach them.

Obviously we weren't having sex in front of them when we were mono-and we aren't having sex in front of them now that we are poly.
We explained it as having more than one love. Pretty simple, pretty basic.
They've seen me kissing both Maca and GG. They know I go to bed in Maca's bed, and that I wake up in GG's (weird I know-but Maca has to go to work at 5:30 in the morning, so when he leaves I go to GG's bed cause I'm a TOTAL cuddle bug).

Never been an issue.
We have friends with kids-they keep it a secret, but they also don't live with their lovers either.
 

anon4now

New member
Time flies...

Another rambling installment of "The inner workings of A4N"

Did more soul searching... discovered an issue that exists which was glossed over and ignored.

As I stated in my first entry, my wife and I used to be HYPERsexual. You name it, there was a time when we did it (Go ahead, PM and ask me). Since kids, we have lost that part of our wonderful relationship. Where I know that she and I are rock solid and will never want to leave the other, I now know that there is a HUGE chasm in our relationship that has to be addressed so that our relationship is where it used to be. What is the opposite of hyper...? We are there. I honestly thought I was ok with it but while soul searching, I realized that I held ALOT of resentment towards her for it.

Yeah, we talked about it multiple times but I eventually gave in and just swept it under the rug. That's the odd thing, we talk about EVERYTHING but that...

I realized this issue and my first response was to wonder if M was simply a "surrogate" for my needs I wasn't having fulfilled with my wife. I can honestly say that after some real discussions with myself, that is not the case. I really do love her even without the intimacy or affirmations of how she may still feel about me (we haven't discussed our emotions with each other for a while now so I assume she's in the same boat that I am and still in love but not acting on it).

So, is there a question I can ask to make sure I'm not fooling myself? I looked at it from all directions and M is not my crutch/surrogate/bootycall. She is as much a soulmate to me as my wife. I love her as much as my wife and kids. I even tried to convince myself that she was just a surrogate. That never felt right so I am convinced.

Anyway, on to the good part. My wife and I had a very long and deep heart to heart over the weekend. She has become somewhat reclusive and anti social, lost her drive to be sexual with her weight gain (she affirms that I never said or acted in any way to make her feel bad about it). We believe that she had post partum depression with one of our children and let it "fester". It then turned into a lifestyle change for her even though she might not still be suffering from it. She had always been somewhat of a wallflower and I just attributed her "home bound attitude" to raising kids and being a stay at home mom. Anyway... we are going to work on us. Get us back to where we were. Her words were "I am not the same woman you married and that's not fair to you".

Even though I know I am poly, I am not going to even think about it or talk to her about it until we fix each other. MAYBE, I will eventually discover that I was fooling myself and justifying M. I don't think... but I'm also not closed off to the possiblity since I once thought I'd never share my wife with another man swinging and I also never though I could love another woman. The flip side of that is that MAYBE she will be open to the idea of Poly and between her and I we will work with eachother to get rid of our insecurities.

Either way, I will continue to read and post here. I hope to develop some friendships and possibly help others along the way.
 

GroundedSpirit

New member
..... Anyway... we are going to work on us. Get us back to where we were. Her words were "I am not the same woman you married and that's not fair to you".

HI Anon,

Glad to hear you are going to work on the 'us' part :)
Your wife's statement about not being the same person - well - keep in mind that applies to you too :) To all of us. It sounds like she's seeing that as a negative - which she shouldn't ! Living our lives changes us at some levels. But really - down deep - we are always who we always were. Maybe a little older, a little wiser, a little more tired and battle scarred - but still the same person inside. It will help her tremendously to find that part of herself she thinks shes lost if you can affirm that YOU still see it. It's the rope that can lead you (her in this case) home :)

As for all the self-analysis etc and your feeling towards your friend, I suspect it unfolded the way it did for a reason. It may very well have started in that surrogate mode you are concerned with, but then grew to something more. Far from uncommon. In fact that's the jealous persons biggest fear ! Sex evolving to love !

But look at what you've learned ! Regardless of how/why it all started, what was in anyone's mind at the moment etc, NOW look what it is ? No matter what direction the future takes it you understand love better. There's one of those 'changes' we're talking about. A very positive one.

And just a quick comment on the sex drive thing etc. The family, post partum etc. What your wife experienced is so common that it's been a subject of endless studies. And is the biggest single reason men wander. So it's nothing to be down about and take on negative, hopeless feelings. It CAN be dealt with and a lot of that old fire can come back - sometimes even more-so. You'll probably see reference to that even here on the forum. So be prepared if you get more than you ask for :)
Dig out those crib notes you took down while learning yourself in case you find the roles reversed.

Good luck - please keep us posted.

GS
 
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