Jealousy

BohemianMLHR81

New member
I have spent tha last 3 hours reading post after post of what is suppose to be mature secure people who are in the polyamory lifestyle. As a single woman I would run from almost every couple that have posts in here. All I see is insecurities, whining, and jealousy because a partner makes a connection with someone. From my understanding of the difference between Swinging and Polyamory is a connection! Without emotions, feelings, connections all you have is sex! It really makes me wonder if I joined the right site to find mature adults who have sense enough to actually realise that a person can love more than one partner. Some people have no business in either the swinging lifestyle or polyamory.
 

KyleKat

New member
Most the new people that start out here, myself included, join because they are having difficulty coping with something they've been taught all their life is immoral. Others are posting about their insecurities and seeking guidance of getting past that. People don't join forums to profess how easy life is. That's both boring to read and to talk about. Not everyone who posts here is interested in being poly either. There are mono people who join to get help or perspective about their significant other, people who have been asked to consider poly, and all sorts of stuff.

If you think this is a swingers board you should go look at swingersboard.com. I was actually told by people there to not even attempt to include emotions because that is disaster. So no, this isn't just some swingers board masquerading as polyamory. This is a place where like minded people can talk about their issues.
 

BohemianMLHR81

New member
Missed point

I do believe kat that you missed the point of my post. If this is indeed a site for people who want loving relationships with more than one person than I am indeed on the correct site. The point of my post that you obviously missed is the fact that there are hundreds of posts made by people who claim to be in a poly relationship and are bent out of shape because their partner developes a connection of emotions with another person which is the whole basis of a poly relationship. As I stated in my post if emotions, feelings, love, is NOT present then you simply have sex. SEX is NOT polyamory.
Then again maybe I am on the wrong site since I do want the love with multiple people and most of the people on here posting do not want their partners to have any feelings for the other people all as it bruises their egos.
I have been in the swinging lifestyle longer than either you or your wife have been alive. I am well aware of what being a swinger is. If all I wanted was non attachment sex I would be on a swingers site! I have also had several poly relationships in the past that was built on love and the jealousy displayed in some of these posts was no where in the equasion of my past relationships.
 
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Tonberry

New member
I don't personally have issues with jealousy in polyamory at this time, but I don't think it's bad that people do. They post here because they want to work through it. They don't take the position that if they're jealous, then they're right, and the situation is wrong, and poly is wrong. They try to figure out what causes the jealousy and they fix that.

I have 3 brothers and as a kid, there was jealousy all around from all of us. But we knew it wasn't right to be jealous of your siblings so we worked it out. Just knowing it didn't make it go away though.

Some people are more jealous than other, but being fit for poly doesn't mean you never experience jealousy, it means you know how to deal with it and move past it. I think acknowledging one's weaknesses is a form of maturity, and the people who post here and admit that they are jealous are showing aspects of themselves that a lot of people would want to hide. But they put it here for all of us to see so that we can help them through it. I don't think it's immature.

Also keep in mind that some threads have a venting aspect to them. People who have no place to talk about these things (mostly because people would probably just tell them "he/she is cheating, dump them!" or would say "well it's your fault for being poly" or just wouldn't understand at all) come to the forums, and here they can talk, and sometimes it all comes out in ways that aren't necessarily pretty. But then you can sort through the feelings and see what to bring up to your partners, instead of having that explosion of feelings in front of them and compromising one or more relationships.

Some people can analyse their feelings and have calm conversations with their partners and sort everything that way. These people have no need to post about it here though. So of course the people who do post are those who need some help dealing with their feelings and want an outside perspective to know where the line is between jealousy that should be worked on, and feelings that just mean someone is treating you like crap and you should confront them.
 

NovemberRain

New member
I'm wondering, Bohemian, what you're hoping to get out of this thread or this forum by starting out with scolding the people of this forum. ?

I'm also wondering how you missed all the love and success that other see when they read here.
 

BohemianMLHR81

New member
hoping

I really do not know at this point. I came to this site to find a couple for a loving relationship free of childish issues. IMO the whole purpose of having a poly relationship is to have love and emotions involved instead of just having casual NSA partners. My ex husband and I had an open relationship free of all jealousy. the people that he and i both chose to have relationships with were also free of all jealousy. We all were mature enough to realise that it is possible to love more than one person. But I am sorry the feeling that I got by reading countless posts was that the people posting did not want their spouse loving anyone but them. This is the impression that I as an individual got from reading these posts. I am not here for casual NSA no emotion, no feeling, no love, sex. I can get that on any swingers site.
 

BohemianMLHR81

New member
tonberry

Thank you for a well thought out reply. I understand that jealousy is a human emotion. That was not what has turned me off. The fact that they made an issue of a human emotion with their spouses and then tried to make those spouses feel guilt is the turnoff. Again I am not attacking. I am giving my perspective as a single woman as to what I am reading in these posts and how I as a single woman would NEVER enter into a relationship with any couple who have these issues on their plate. And if for some reason those issues did develope while I were involved with a couple I would exit stage left.
 

sparklepop

New member
Before I begin, I wanted to point out that my response here is neither meant as an attack, nor am I feeling in the slightest bit defensive of the other people posting here. I would merely like to offer my perspective. Hopefully your perspective of my perspective will be clear and we can keep this friendly, eh?

You seem to understand that people feel insecure sometimes. Yet, you seem to think people are trying to make their partners feel guilty for their own emotions? Why do you think that? I am genuinely confused.

As far as I thought, if someone is asking for advice (here or anywhere else), they are not usually actually asking for their opinion to be confirmed. The act of seeking advice, regardless of the content of their post, means that the person is trying to become more evolved and deal with their issues, in order to reach that supposed Holy Grail of 'no insecurity'. The people who are making their partners feel guilty for their own feelings are the people who aren't posting here. They are at home yelling at their husband for texting another woman.

I believe that most people, given a choice, would naturally rather not experience negative emotion. It's no fun for anyone. I don't think that people here are trying to say "come, help me drown my partner in my pool of negativity" - I think they are trying to stop themselves drowning in it. All you are seeing is their words on a computer screen - it's the only medium they have to communicate through. Try not to judge based on a bunch of letters that form a sentence.

You said yourself - aside from some poly relationships, you've had experience in the swinging realm for over 25 years. Perhaps you have never felt insecure? Or perhaps you've had time to deal with those feelings? Or - perhaps swinging is a different ball game than poly? I haven't had the pleasure of swinging, so you tell me :)

I'm also interested in your comment there, that you would have 'exited stage left' if you had experienced these levels of jealousy issues in your previous relationships.

Dealing with other people's emotions, nurturing them, helping them to grow, can have a knock-on effect of helping you to grow. You learn to be compassionate, empathetic.

You do realise that to say "some people have no business" being in the lifestyle is highly arrogant and presumptuous? Not being rude - just checking ;) You cannot pass holy judgement on the people who post here, based on a couple of threads. It is not your place to do so.

I could just as easily assume "You have no business in polyamory, if you expect people to behave perfectly and if you show minimum compassion for human emotion. You clearly have empathy issues - perhaps that's why you are single?". But I can't say that - I don't know the first thing about you. I would be judging you as a person based on a few sentences I'm reading on my screen. It's probably far from accurate and more importantly, it's not my place. I am not the All Seeing Eye of poly. I'm 27 - I'm not the All Seeing Eye of anything. If I stop smoking and make it to 70, it still won't be my place to judge what other people are right for. We can only judge ourselves. And that... I believe... is the point of this forum: to judge ourselves.

That being said, regardless of poly, we all have our own limit when it comes to dealing with other people's issues. I'm a Psychologist, so my limit is pretty high. I'm not saying that to be trite or arrogant - I have a genuinely high threshold for other people's woes. My girlfriend, on the other hand, has a pretty low threshold. I don't have the answers to everything, but, being a Psychologist... ~laughs~... I can see why this is the case. So I'll let her off.

If your threshold is on the low side, at least you seem to realise it - you said yourself, you're not looking for people with many issues? So you've got the first part of it sorted. Now you just need a place that houses all of those issue-free people. I think you're right: this might not be the place.

Perhaps I digress. Let's get back to your main point. The premise of your debate is a curious one for me... where is the actual disclaimer that said this forum is a sea of fully evolved, mature, issue-free poly people? Incidentally, who actually said this was a place to meet people? I didn't realise that this was a dating site. I'm not being sarcastic - I genuinely thought it was a forum. So, why did you think differently? Am I missing something? If so, take me to the hot women. I'm poly - I'll take them all.
 
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BohemianMLHR81

New member
Sparkle.

Thank you for the chuckle. I love the part about wife raising hell at husband. That is exact;ly the reason That I posted. I had that veryt thing happen to me last night. The wife in a couple that I had met with a cpl of weeks ago started sending me hateful texts yesterday about her husband talking to me without her being present. I made it clear to both of them when we met that I did not tolorate this kind of stupid behavior. As the 3rd wheel in any triad jealousy is a turnoff. We are the one's who catch the brunt of the BS. Then ultimately we are the one's who are removed from a 3 way relationship. The main two components that Swinging and Polyamory from my understanding is honesty and communication. Communication seems to be the key thing missing in some of the couples relationships that has produced jealousy. If I am not mistaken you had in one of your replies the analogy of a waterbed. This is true. You have to have your relationship in good condition before you try to add someone else to it. Someone new in the mix is not going to FIX a cheating husband or wife, a wife who is not interested in sex, or a husband who is not talented in the whole sexual act. Adding someone new to a relationship with no trust or trust worthyness, or neglect, or loniness, or rejection is only going to create a lot of heartache usually for the person added.
Unless ytou have been the added single woman in a couples relationships then you can not see it from that angle. I have been part of the couple adding a single as well as another couple. I have been the single one added. It is always the added people that is given the boot when the base couple have issues. Maybe I do lack empathy as you put it but I do believe that if you as a couple need to spice things up adding anyone else to the mix is NOT the way to do that. While I do NOT have a PHD I do know about human nature and I have seen hundreds of relationships crumble over the last 25 years in both lifestyles and jealousy was always a factor. Also if you have a problem in your relationship then as a couple your focus should be on each other not other people.
Look at it from my respective...If this couple that I have met is doing things behind each others back, or they lack communication and trust with each other then how am I suppose to think they will treat me. Will they lie to me? Will they use me as an excuse for their lack of trust? Will one of them call me screaming because the other had an hour of time with me they did not know about? IMO from 25 years experience of being around sexually free lifestyles when a couple lacks the trust and communication it becomes lack of respect for the added people's feelings.
As for my state of being single. My husband decided that the sexual freedom he had was not enough so he had sex with my daughter at the age of 14. So pardon me if I have no tolorance for any kind of red flags!
 

BohemianMLHR81

New member
Analogy for troubled relationships

If the motor in your car has a rod knocking are you going to load it up with people and take off on a 500 mile road trip? A responsible, intelligent person is going to fix their car first so that everyone is not sitting stranded on the side of a highway in the middle of nowhere.
How many people do you think would climb into that car knowing the motor is getting ready to blow?
Point: Fix your car then people with be more than happy to ride along with you!
 

Emm

Stealth Mod
... and if someone was after a recommendation for a good local mechanic they might post a query on a car-related website. If they've never driven before their question might be "Is it safe to drive while it makes this noise?" That doesn't mean that everyone posting on that site deliberately goes out of their way to drive their vehicles into the ground, and to assume they do would be misguided at best.
 

sparklepop

New member
Ah! ~rubs hands together~

Let's delve into this... you make some interesting points...

This is going to be long - I apologise.

Poly isn't just about jealousy
You are right - two of the main components in poly or any kind of relationship are honesty and communication. But I do believe there are another two elements.

When I (personally) consider whether I contain the muster that is required for the enlightening life o'poly, I keep those four points in mind: honesty, communication, compassion and saturation.

By saturation, I literally mean "How much can I take? How many issues? How many people?"

You know your saturation point. But is your saturation point effective for you? Is it causing problems in your relationships? Could your relationships be better if you were able to loosen your saturation point?

I absolutely understand that your perspective comes from that of the third party in many relationships and that you had that horrid issue with your husband. I do of course, absolutely understand your perspective and I am truly sorry that you had to go through that situation with your daughter.

Travelling as a group
You feel that because you have a finely tuned communication and jealousy engine (and honestly, that is great), you're ready to hop in the Poly Wagon. But, let's say your empathy tank is running on empty, because you've thought about others your whole life and god damn it, it's your turn to be thought about. Should you fill that up before you get on the road? Can you start driving and let others help you fill it up as you go?

It's good that you know what you expect. I like strong women. Strong women make the world go round. But sometimes, we fail to feel the world quivering as we take it by the balls.

Ask yourself a new question, taking the example of "crazy angry wife" from last night:

"Did I effectively check their motor before I got in the back seat?"

How long have they been poly/open/whatever they are? Do they have guidelines? Did naughty husband break any of these guidelines? Have you met both of them? Is most of your interaction with the husband?

Maybe you asked all of these things and they seemed good on paper. You can't foresee problems sometimes. Occasionally, people are just crazies and they hide it well ;) But if this is a pattern for you, that other people always seem to have more issues than you do, you could examine that more closely.

If you hop in the car and say "let's drive - but I won't tolerate any discomfort"... what happens if someone wants the window down? Are they likely to raise the issue? Or are they likely to make death eyes at you because they are too hot? Most likely, they'll hit you on the back of the head whilst condemning themselves for being too hot... everyone else is comfortable, why aren't I? If you get in the car and say "sweethearts, we've never taken a road trip together, let me know if you need the window down" you might have a merrier trip.

That being said. If one awkward passenger wants the music up, the window down, to drop fast food all over the seat, to kick the back of your chair... then yes, of course it's ok to jump out of the car.

What you can do is be really clear, yet compassionate, about the state of your motor before you all take a trip. "You should know, I struggle to have patience with jealousy because..." "I like you, but I am nervous to enter a relationship with you if you are new to poly, because..." etc. If you want to date couples, your end of the bargain is to be considerate whilst they make room on the water bed for you.

Then look at their engine from the outside of the car. Even if they say it's fine. Look beyond what they tell you.

Changing patterns
It's interesting that you say that the third in a triad is often the first out. Also, that the third catches the brunt of the BS. Has this happened to you many times? Could there be any repetition of behaviour from yourself there that led to this? In my experience, there's always something we could have done differently ourselves.

To me, dating is like house hunting. You might want a penthouse, but you can't afford it. Maybe you can afford it, but you can't find exactly what you want pre-made. So you live on a construction-site for a while whilst you make home improvements. In short - if you haven't found what you're looking for, maybe you can stick around to create what you're looking for.... or shift your expectations. Or, wait a long time for the perfect one to come up.

I would definitely suggest, if you want my advice (you may just be looking to date me ~wiggles eyebrows~) that nobody likes too much drama. It's a headache. You don't have to put up with mountains of stress. But just ask yourself - can you compromise and if so, could you be happier for it? Or are you really always getting involved with heavily-issue-riddled people? If so, why? What can you do to change that pattern? Are you actually in a better position than most, because you have the experience to lend to other people, rather than the blind leading the blind? Or will you only settle for someone exactly the same as you, however long it takes? There's no right or wrong. :)
 
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dollface

New member
i actually have a question

My husband and I are fairlynew to poly. I have always believed full heartedly that people can love more than one person at a time, and I'm not a very jealous person by nature. When we first started talking about this we talked in depth about how he was just looking for a sexual relationship and he realized I'd most likely require an emotional attachment before haveing a sexual relationship. He expressed that he has the fear that I'd no longer need him once I found someone else, because becoming polly was originally his idea and he's afraid im not actually able to have room in my heart for more. We found a girl for both of us sexually which went smoothly. But unexpectedly he found a girl that he clicks with but I don't, getting to know her more I can see that we can be friends but there is no attraction between the two of us, so she would be just for him. She's never done this before and doesn't sleep around she has to have an emotional connection first, so right now him and her are all enotional not sexual. I am having a harder time with this than I thought I would.. at first I thought that it was because he kept saying he only wanted sexual but now he's found mental and he wouldn't admit it at first, him not admitting it to him self in turn making him not be honest with me. Anytime I'd say he has feelings for her he'd think I was saying they were in love and get defensive and say I'm making up things that aren't there. After some discussion he has admitted that she could turn into a girlfriend and said he wasnt trying to keep it from me he just wasn't looking for that so he didn't know what to think when he found it. I've told him he needs to communicate his thought process as well asthe end results to me so I don't feel like he's keeping anything from me. I don't think that he loves her yet, but it is a possible future. Now I'm trying to figure out if I'm just haveing natural jealousy issues or if I'm actually not ok with the situation. I full heartedly feel that he can have feelings for both, its just how do I get over this natural competitive feeling I have. Like I said before I'm not normally a jealous person, but I am very competitive... I do my best to not compare our relationships because I know they are separate things but there are things in me and his relationship that I want to see changw in, but now when I bring them up he thinks it's only because of his relationship with the new girl. I'm frustrated for having irrational jealousies but really want to make this work...
 

snowmelt

New member
Hi Boh...

I have had a lot of people do some pretty crappy things to me in the past. If you ask me what they are I won't tell you, because it won't help me make my point. I remember the moment of my life where I realized I had a choice to make. That choice was to stay angry or get over it and be happy with my life. I chose to be happy.


Everything I'm going to tell you is only my opinion. Take it if it helps, leave it if it doesn't. You have chosen to stay angry. One of the ways you have chosen to express that anger is by becoming a drill sergeant in your search for a couple to love. Based on everything you wrote, my impression of you is you see a couple you are interested in. They look to be standing about 50 feet away from you. You shout to them: Hey, couple! I'm interested in getting into a loving relationship with you. I'm about 50 feet away right now.

I am going to start walking toward you. By the time I am close enough to hug you, you better have ALL of your issues resolved, and no emotions left except love for each other and me. If you are feeling anything but love for me and each other when I get there, there will be hell to pay! Place yourself in that couple's shoes. Do you think they are swooning over how attractive the drill sergeant is a she approaches with that attitude? I am a single female in my early thirties. I'm happy with myself and my life. I would feel like you were a drill sergeant at boot camp.

Everyone who enters a relationship brings with them the emotional stuff they carry. Your anger is a part of the emotional stuff you bring to every relationship you have. It comes across to me so intense that in my opinion it plays a huge role in how you live, the decisions you make, who you spend time with, etc. In short, it runs you.

I know the destructive behavior some people are capable of. I also know that behavior did not and does not define who I am, how I feel about myself or how I feel about my life - because I learned that only I have the power to do that if I choose to step into that power. The same with you.

Being that angry, you limit your own ability to be helpful to yourself and others as they try to understand their own emotions and solve problems in their life. Part of the reason for that is your anger takes up a lot of your attention. That means less is available for productive things.

Your anger comes across to me so strong, I don't think your post here is really about how to find people or couples to love. I think its a call for help getting over your anger, and learning to be happy by learning how to love yourself. My advise is look at your anger. Forget about the details - who did what to whom and why. Forget about dating for now. Figure out what it will take to get over your anger and be happy with yourself. Make that your priority. Don't even think about telling me you are happy with yourself right now. No person who is as angry as you are is happy. I hope this helps. You have the power. Use it.
 

Marcus

Well-known member
Competition

Like I said before I'm not normally a jealous person, but I am very competitive...

Many people are competitive, however I suspect that there are not a great number of successful poly relationships involving competitive people. That is not to say that it isn't possible, just that I suggest making that a central priority (getting beyond it, that is).

Poly, to me, is about embracing love, cherishing loved ones, letting relationships bloom, and letting relationships go when it is time to let them go. It's about watching my lover fall in love with someone they met and encouraging them, listening to their stories, and relishing in how much they are enamored with them. Poly differs from mono, for me, in that it focuses on experiencing love, not trying to contain it.

In short, I suggest getting over that competitive shit - it'll be the death of any relationship I would consider healthy :cool:

Also, I don't know how to say this without being rude but is English your first language? If so, I strongly suggest Googling "sentence structure" and "punctuation".
 

Marcus

Well-known member
Hostile Much?

I have spent tha last 3 hours reading post after post of what is suppose to be mature secure people who are in the polyamory lifestyle. As a single woman I would run from almost every couple that have posts in here. All I see is insecurities, whining, and jealousy because a partner makes a connection with someone. From my understanding of the difference between Swinging and Polyamory is a connection! Without emotions, feelings, connections all you have is sex! It really makes me wonder if I joined the right site to find mature adults who have sense enough to actually realise that a person can love more than one partner. Some people have no business in either the swinging lifestyle or polyamory.

I am brand spankin' new to these boards and I have certainly found that there are a lot of questions, quite a bit of insecurity, and high intensity emotions abound. Many of what I suspect are the more veteran members (of the board and the community I suppose) go about their relationships in a way that I simply cannot relate to and am currently scratching my head about.

There is a great deal of wisdom here though. I hope that you can calm down long enough to see it.

In case it didn't translate, that's my nice way of saying "Oh please, like your shit doesn't stink"
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
I've been on and off the board for 3 years.

I'm not prone to jealousy.

I am prone to getting fucking pissed when people break their agreements.

I am happily poly.
But, my poly dynamic has been full of jealousy and insecurity-because my husband tends to be possessive, jealous, insecure, clinging and has a tendency towards double standards.

However, I love him-as well as my boyfriend and I'm determined to work THROUGH his issues-not abandon him in order to find the "perfect relationship" because I don't believe those exist. I believe that every relationship, with every imperfect person has good and bad points and the goal is to maximize the positive and improve upon the negative.


SO-one last point-this isn't a "matchmaker" site. If you are looking for conversation-great location, but not really the venue for picking up partners per se.
 

dragonflysky

New member
"My ex husband and I had an open relationship free of all jealousy. the people that he and i both chose to have relationships with were also free of all jealousy. We all were mature enough to realise that it is possible to love more than one person..."

"As for my state of being single. My husband decided that the sexual freedom he had was not enough so he had sex with my daughter at the age of 14."



Ummmm....maybe your ex was "mature enough" to realize it's possible to love more than one person...........but when that "one person" included sex with your 14 year old daughter...this fails to reassure me of exactly how mature at least one of the individuals in your polyamorous relationships really were... :confused: Just saying......
 

LovingRadiance

Active member
Based on everything you wrote, my impression of you is you see a couple you are interested in. They look to be standing about 50 feet away from you. You shout to them: Hey, couple! I'm interested in getting into a loving relationship with you. I'm about 50 feet away right now.

I am going to start walking toward you. By the time I am close enough to hug you, you better have ALL of your issues resolved, and no emotions left except love for each other and me. If you are feeling anything but love for me and each other when I get there, there will be hell to pay! Place yourself in that couple's shoes. Do you think they are swooning over how attractive the drill sergeant is a she approaches with that attitude? I am a single female in my early thirties. I'm happy with myself and my life. I would feel like you were a drill sergeant at boot camp.

I thought that was a great analogy.

Combined with myriad thoughts from Marcus (which I've been mulling over the last couple days);

I've come to this thought;

I agree that poly is about loving more than one and embracing that fully (read his above post for details).

BUT-we all grow and mature at different rates and whilst we are growing, we're also stacking up responsibilities.

I married BEFORE I found poly or found out enough about myself to make use of the information.

I have a responsibility to my family (husband, children, son in law, grandchild) because I chose to bring them into my life and I've made commitments to care for them, raise them in some cases, protect them in some cases and provide for them in some cases.

It's unreasonable to me to say I'm all about LOVING-and drop the ball on those responsibilities-because to me part of LOVING is to uphold and stay true to the responsibilities and promises and commitments you make.

Therefore, I have to negotiate and struggle as my previously "mono experienced only" husband tries to find his way to where I am. Unfortunately, that means dealing with his insecurities, jealousy, possessiveness etc.
Fortunately, my boyfriend is understanding and accepting of Maca's limitations and growth process, because like Maca-he and I have our own limitations and issues we have to grow through and we all care for each other and commit to helping each other through them.

BUT-it also means that an outside party who wants to date any one of us-has to understand, Maca is where he is regarding poly, and he's NOT fully embraced it yet. He's struggling with it. Right wrong or otherwise.

I would advise that anyone who isn't up to dealing with that is PERFECTLY OK not to-just don't date anyone who is struggling that way or who is committed to someone who is struggling that way. ;)
 
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