Lack of attention

I

Inthedark

New member
In a previous thread (To be or not to be; http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78266) I have gone into great detail about the struggles I have had with my wife and our open relationship. To quickly rehash, my wife and I have had an open relationship for a few years. After coming off of a period in which she had no outside relationships, I was confronted with the fact that she entered into several cyber romances. Two of these have turned into physical encounters. One has turned into an online D/s relationship. Over the past few weeks the kind folks here on the forum have largely helped me work through some tough issues and I have, for the most part, become settled with the idea of my wife's relationships. I know that is a little brief but should do for a quick background.
Today, I read an article that I saw linked in another thread on Poly Hell. After reading this article, I have come to realize that this is exactly what i am dealing with now. In fact, I'm kind of hoping that I am actually climbing up form the depths of this hell. At least I see light at the end of the tunnel.
I have discovered that my main issues that remain unresolved are that I feel that I would like a little more attention from my wife, and the fact that when I try to bring this up, she either shuts down or gets angry.
So, my question is... How do I ask my wife for a little more attention without making her angry?
My feeling is that she gets angry because she feels that I am trying to be selfish (and I admittedly have in the past) and that I am accusing her of wrong doing. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
Be more specific. What kind of attention do you want? A cup of tea together in the evening by the kitchen table and you both are focused on each other and listen what the other has to say? Some more touching? More sex? Going together for a walk? When you know what you want, ask for it.

For instance:
Honey, would you join me on a walk tomorrow night?
Could we go to the corner pub for a beer next Friday?
 
You could do YOUR side of the communication stick job. Whether or not she's doing her side well or not. Something like...

"I would like to set a time with you to talk. I can do Friday at 8 PM but open to suggestions. When is good for you?"​

Appointment arrives.

"I miss you and feel lonely. I need more connection with you. I would like attention from you in the form of ______. (List the things -- kiss goodnight, date on Saturday, whatever it is.)

Could you be willing to do some of those things? Or give some suggestions for things you are willing to do at this time?"​

Basically she's not a mind reader. You HAVE to make her aware for her to know what's going on with you.

If she comes to the meeting all tired or hungry or angry or whatever? That's her lack of preparation. She could not agree to inconvenient appointment times with you. If something happened, she could ask to reschedule. If she's wanting YOU to be a mind reader or wanting you to do her jobs for her? Decline and hand the responsibility back on to her plate. Her preparedness is HER job.

"We agreed to an appointment time. I see you coming to it unprepared. I prefer that if you agree to a time, you come rested and prepared to talk. Don't agree to times that are not convenient for you.

If something unforeseen happened you can ask for a reschedule. Not come and act out at me." ​

If she has a cow during the talk... is it because of the communication method or because of defensive listening? Find out.

"You seem angry. Could you repeat back what you heard so I know you got it like I meant it?"​

If method:

"Thank you. You are angry that I am voicing my current needs verbally. Could you be willing to tell you what communication method you prefer? Over email? Something else? Next time I prefer you tell be from the beginning what method is best for you rather than agreeing to a verbal meeting."​


If defensive listening:


"Thank you. You are angry because you hear me saying "you stink because you do not do X" when I actually said "Could you be willing to do X? I prefer you not project extra things on to my words. I prefer you do active listening and say

"yes, I am willing to do that now"
"yes, willing, but not able at this time. How about on ____?"
"no, I am not willing/able to do that."​

Just sidestep all the crazy.

Galagirl
 
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Specifically I would like her to limit the amount of time she spends chatting on line with her various paramours. I'm not so concerned with time she spends on face-to-face relationships. I was very disrespectful to her for a couple of months, but I got some help and advice and I am once again ok with her lifestyle choices. I am feeling left out though. Also, our kids feel that her chat time is taking her away from them. I have specifically asked that she tone it down for both me and the kids but she got very angry. But, reflecting on things a minute, if I ask for something specific, she usually has no problem with it.
 
@ Galagirl,
She gets very defensive. She has expressed that she feels that I am attacking her and her choices. I just want the opportunity to love her and I'd like to feel loved in return.
 
If that's the thing, focus on what you want more of.

  • "I feel lonely for you. Could you be willing to set a date for just you and me?"
  • "The kids mention wanting more time with you. Could you be willing to set time to spend with them/us as a family?"

HOW she makes that happen? Let it be on her. If she cuts the time from her bowling league or her online chat time or changes her bath tub time to faster showers -- that's all her problem.

Because if you ask her to cut her online chat time? She might do that. Met your request. Then goes to spend the time on golf. That's still not spending time with you or the kids is it?

Ask for the outcome you actually want. Let the method be up to her.

Galagirl
 
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You can always tell what's important in someone's life: what they spend time on.
 
Inthedark said:
Specifically I would like her to limit the amount of time she spends chatting on line with her various paramours. I'm not so concerned with time she spends on face-to-face relationships. I was very disrespectful to her for a couple of months, but I got some help and advice and I am once again ok with her lifestyle choices. I am feeling left out though. Also, our kids feel that her chat time is taking her away from them. I have specifically asked that she tone it down for both me and the kids but she got very angry. But, reflecting on things a minute, if I ask for something specific, she usually has no problem with it.
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See, here's the thing - I've had the same problem with texting and online activities taking up time with my partner (TheKnight, if you read my blog), *from both sides*. And it truly is a two sided thing - on the one hand, yeah, you're chatting/texting and don't seem available, so that makes your partner/kids feel like you aren't interested in them. On the other hand, if you're just wanting her to "stop chatting" without wanting her to *do* something else, that's sort of just asking her to wait around for you to pay attention to her and/or come up with something to entertain you with, or something. I *vehemently* agree with Nadya's suggestion that you ask for her to *positively* do activities, rather than just saying "don't do that" - especially since you agree that she usually *wants* to do things with you if you ask.
 
Yeah, I think that is exactly what I have been doing. "Stop that because I don't like it but I'm not going to offer any alternative." That sounds sorta like something I'd say! LOL. And honestly, when I have asked her to do things with me, I don't even mind if she engages in her chats. I guess I have just been a little to thick to figure it out.
 
Ask for what you do want. When my husband asks me to spend less time chatting, I get defensive, too, because it sounds like he's trying to control me. If I spend less time chatting while he's at work and the kids are at school, how does that help him?

If he asks me to watch a movie with him, or go for dinner with him, I'm much more receptive. :)

Ask for what you do want her to do that benefits you (which is reasonable), not what you want her not to do (which feels like control). :)
 
Hi Inthedark,

Re (from OP):
"How do I ask my wife for a little more attention without making her angry?"
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That depends on what her reasons are for getting angry. If she actually doesn't want to give you any more attention, she might be getting angry in hopes of discouraging you from asking anymore at all. And indeed, in that case there isn't much point in asking.

But, maybe what's bugging her is that you're asking at inopportune times. That's something you could fix by simply paying attention to the immediate environment before you ask her. Make sure there are no upsets or distractions at the time.

Maybe what's bugging her is that she thinks you're just criticizing her. In which case you could increase the amount of compliments you give her, and precede and follow your "more attention question" with a couple of additional compliments (statements of appreciation).

Maybe she's frustrated that she doesn't have enough time/energy to do all that she'd like to do. In that case, you could try to help her out with some of her chores or whatever so that she isn't so burned out and can spare you some more attention.

These are just wild guesses. It's too bad we couldn't just ask her what's making her so upset. On the other hand ... maybe we could ask ...

And as the others have stated, keep the emphasis on what you *do* want, not on what you *don't* want. "Honey, I want to ask for more of your time, and more for the kids." Better yet, ask her for specific stuff. "Honey, let's take the kids to the park." "Honey, I want to take you out for dinner tonight." Emphasis on the positive. Steer away from stuff that might come across as critical. "Honey, you're spending too much time chatting online with your various paramours. Cut it out." GalaGirl touched on that when she suggested you let your wife figure out where she'll get the extra time you're asking of her. That's what matters most, right? is that you (and the kids) get the time you need.

My 2¢,
Kevin T.
 
That's what matters most, right? is that you (and the kids) get the time you need.
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So, Kevin, I am actually a pretty self-negating guy so I would say what matters most is her and the kids. LOL.
Since last Monday, when we had a big fight because I got stupid, insecure and drunk, I have started paying a lot closer attention to her to try to figure out her cues. I thought I was doing this before but it turns out, IMO, that I was just being nosy! So now I'm using skills that I have learned in combat to observe her behavior. For instance, when I was relegated to sleeping on the couch, I would notice that she was video chatting with a certain person (I don't know who or what they talk about). I noticed that it was always around 9 PM and that she would close the bedroom door halfway. Now that is usually when I am getting ready to turn in, so now that I am back to sleeping in the bed, I actually ask at around 8:45 if it is ok for me to hang out in the bed room. And she has been quite receptive to that. Last night she even had her conversation outside after dinner.
As far as asking her what is making her upset... I do ask and most of the time I get, "nothing," or, "you don't want to know," or my all time favorite, "I don't want to tell you because it is mean and will hurt your feelings." But I think some of your guesses are correct.
I had an epiphany last night. I love my wife all the time, but I think I am "in love with" my wife when there is distance, physical or emotional, between us. Since I was a teenager, I have always wanted the love that I can't have. I actually think that I may be making things happen in order to keep this distance between us so that I can remain "in love with" her. Interested to hear every one's take on that.
 
Re:
"I actually think that I may be making things happen in order to keep this distance between us so that I can remain 'in love with' her."
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Interesting idea. I guess it's possible. If it's true, does that mean you'll try to alter your actions in the future, or is the way it is good enough because "absence makes the heart grow fonder?"
 
If it's true, does that mean you'll try to alter your actions in the future, or is the way it is good enough because "absence makes the heart grow fonder?"
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I absolutely hate it! I do not like living this way or feeling this way. But let me give you a little background. I am in the Army and have been for 20 years. In 2006, after 7 ears of marriage, after nearly four years of working in a job that allowed me to sleep in my own bed every night and about three months after the birth of our second child and our first beginning kindergarten, I left. I went to Korea for one year. Prior to that, our longest separation had been about 45 days. During the year in Korea I was able to see my family once for two weeks. After Korea, I was stationed in Colorado. I had about 8 1/2 months between returning from Korea and deploying to combat in Iraq. During that 8 months (my wife actually counted the days on a calendar) I slept in my own bed for 90 days exactly. Most weekdays I went to work around 5 AM and didn't get home until 7 PM. When it became evident that I was not going to be able to be the husband and father I wanted to be or that they needed to be I began pushing them away so that it would be easier for me to leave again. After returning from Iraq, I 22 months before I deployed to Afghanistan for a year. Between Iraq and Afghanistan I spent several of those 22 months away, the longest stretch being a little over 60 days. After Afghanistan, I was sent away for about five weeks after having been home for less than four months. 16 months after returning from Afghanistan, I deployed to Kuwait for 9 months. All told, if you count field time, training and deployments, I have spent probably 4 1/2 to five years away from my family since the end of 2006. This has taken a toll on all of us. This is why I think I have this distance infatuation. Its what I know. And I hate it. So, yes I want to alter my actions and I have altered my actions several times. Unfortunately, if I get any feedback at all from my wife it is negative. So, I end up turning to forums like this one for advice and to try to find out what might work. But the bottom line is, I am not willfully making things happen to engineer certain situations. It is subconscious and I hate it. I just want to be normal.
 
Sorry to hear that the Army has pulled you away from your house and home. I take it you have had your fill of absence and would like a little more time with your family. Will you continue to be in the Army for quite awhile, and do you anticipate more deployments?

Who knows, maybe your wife is in the habit of distancing herself from you because that is how she copes (with your time away from home). I don't know, I'm just speculating.
 
Will you continue to be in the Army for quite awhile, and do you anticipate more deployments?
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No. I will officially retire from the army on July 1st but I actually stop working next week! No more deployments!
maybe your wife is in the habit of distancing herself from you because that is how she copes
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I think that is one reason. A couple of weeks ago, on one of the rare occasions that she has opened up to me, she told me that it feels like I've never come home. Like I have been gone since 2006. A huge part of my quest is not only to learn how to live this poly, open lifestyle but also to learn how I could, in her mind, come home.
Of course I think there are other reasons as well but without any feedback from her I can't know.
As a career soldier, I have come to expect feedback on a regular basis. Positive or negative, feedback helps us hone those skills that we are good at and improve upon those we struggle with. Feedback is also a key component of communication. The only feedback that I get from my wife is usually not very specific, is negative and boarders on mean or hateful, and is usually non-verbal. This makes it hard to get a good sense of what I am doing well and what I need to improve on. Pretty much the only things that I know I do well, based on feedback, are back rubs and foot massages!
 
Hello Inthedark,
I agree with everyone here on the attention thing.
Inthedark said:
No. I will officially retire from the army on July 1st but I actually stop working next week! No more deployments!
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Do you already have a plan on how to fill your time?
When you stop working, you need some other occupation, and direction, purpose. Something you would like to do with your time. Not having a purpose leeds to pasivity, depression, killing the sense of emptyness with addictions...
Preferably you do not make your marriage your only/main purpose. I am afraid this might amplify your anxiety, since anxiety grows when you focus on problems. It could also put additional pressure on your wife, since you would have suddenly much more energy then her to spend on "problem-solving", and you could easily make her feel overwhelmed or guilty when she cannot keep up. (You said she got a job recently, she will be overwhelmed anyway.)

I think it would do you much good to take your focus off of problems (and perhaps the relationship in general), and think about what positive things you want to do with your life. I know you already started, when you asked for help. I hope you can come up with a bunch of pleasurable and useful things you could do, when you retire.
 
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As far as asking her what is making her upset... I do ask and most of the time I get, "nothing," or, "you don't want to know," or my all time favorite, "I don't want to tell you because it is mean and will hurt your feelings." But I think some of your guesses are correct.
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I don't care for those responses.

In those shoes I would say "I DO want to know. That is why I am asking the question. If you are not willing to tell, please say "I am not willing to tell you."

You wife sound like she's not helping connection between you when she talks like that.

A couple of weeks ago, on one of the rare occasions that she has opened up to me, she told me that it feels like I've never come home. Like I have been gone since 2006.
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You sound like you are there. What behaviors would she like from you?

Feedback is also a key component of communication. The only feedback that I get from my wife is usually not very specific, is negative and boarders on mean or hateful, and is usually non-verbal. This makes it hard to get a good sense of what I am doing well and what I need to improve on. Pretty much the only things that I know I do well, based on feedback, are back rubs and foot massages!
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Have you tried asking her direct?

"I am not getting clear feedback from you lately. I feel disconnected. When I ask what is wrong, you do not tell me.

So let me just ask straight up -- are your bored with this relationship? If so... Would you prefer to end it peacefully or try to revitalize it? Where are you at?"​

Actually move on to having the conversations you need to be having rather than trying to mind reader or guess or sit in the dark some more.

Galagirl
 
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Re (from Inthedark):
"I will officially retire from the Army on July 1st but I actually stop working next week! No more deployments!"
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That's good news. :)

Re:
"The only feedback that I get from my wife is usually not very specific, is negative and borders on mean or hateful, and is usually non-verbal. This makes it hard to get a good sense of what I am doing well and what I need to improve on."
Click to expand...

That's not so good. :(

Perhaps it is one of the ways she distances herself from you? protecting herself by keeping you at arm's length? Now that you are retiring I would hope she wouldn't need to do that anymore.

I think you are well within your rights to ask for more direct communication. If she refuses, I don't know what you do. It doesn't sound like she's very satisfied with you on general terms. Which I think is a little unfair on her part ...
 
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