Monogamy Explored

redpepper

New member
the mono agenda

I was in a discussion where by it came up that mono people have to be watched because of their agenda when entering into a poly relationship. They could be someone who says they get poly and are okay with the fact that their new boy friend has a wife, but then it turns out that they actually do want that boyfriend to be for them and are surprised that he doesn't want to leave his wife.

Is this a common understanding? A common way of looking at mono people? Is there not an agenda that we all have because we would like to have relationships that work for us? How is it different if a mono feel s like that? They too advocate for their needs. Why is it different?

What of people who actually decide to leave all partners to be in a mono relationship... they sometimes come back to their poly ways swearing they will never do that again. Can someone decide to be monogamous for a mono love and that be that? back to mainstream mono land forever? Or is this just not possible?
 
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Breathesgirl

New member
Wow you're up late & pondering deep stuff???? I don't think my brain would be working that late! It usually isn't working this early either!

I don't know if it's the most common way of looking at things but I"ve heard the story quite a few times that someone's s/o is dating a mono person & it turns out that person really just wants the s/o all to themselves! Thinking about it...Breathes' first, second and third s/o's after we got together were like that & didn't like the fact that he wouldn't dump me to be monogamous with them.

Possibly it's different because there is more than two people being hurt by that kind of relationship when one person is poly and has other partners besides the mono one. I'm talking about the closed minded monos, not the ones who are up front about the fact they aren't sure whether they can handle poly or the ones who truly are fine with themselves being mono while their partner is poly. When the poly person comes home from visiting the mono partner there tends to be, at least IME small though it may be, more drama during the reconnection phase. The mono person tends to think more in the me/us two line than in the me, you & you & you line. This then tends to put more drama into the poly relationships because they are trying to deal with concepts so totally opposite to their own way of thinking.

There is nothing wrong with their advocating their needs as long as they clearly understand that just because they are letting their wants & needs be known it doesn't necessarily mean they will get them.

I've heard of poly's going mono and then back again but don't know any personally.

Why am I trying to express myself clearly at 5:15 am???? lol
 

Ariakas

Bosun
I have never actually considered that. Traditionally we have gotten involved with mono's however they were aware of the situation. I suppose I could see it happening, so I don't know why I have never considered it.

There has been involvement with two mono's and both have said they would be devastated if I left Pengrah. They actually believe that if they remained involved, that I would be the one to choose to leave. Regardless of how often I say otherwise.

I've heard of poly's going mono and then back again but don't know any personally.

Maybe for another discussion and I think I am kind of unique to this outlook, but for me monogamous defines a relationship structure. Polyamorous defines a love style. I am currently monogamous however I can be polyamorous.

Is a single person looking for the one love monogamous? :)...
 

AutumnalTone

New member
That's the cowboy/cowgirl phenomenon in action. A mono enters a poly tangle knowing full well that the partner is involved with others. The cowpoke, however, instead of wanting to work within the poly tangle, actually wants to try to pull the person away an into a mono relationship. It's rude and dysfunctional.

Does every mono getting involved with a poly tangle try to do that? No. Most folks seem to want to work within the parameters they accepted in entering a relationship. There are enough selfish, twisted people who have evil motives that crop up that it's a well-known phenomenon, though.

I suspect that my last amorata wasn't ever truly happy being in a tangle, though she wasn't actively trying to pull me away from my wife. She jumped from a relationship with me to a mono relationship in short order. I get the idea that she was just waiting for a mono relationship to pop up and was using me for support and companionship until that happened.

I'm uncertain as to how often that last circumstance would arise. I've not heard of it being widespread, though I doubt it would be apparent in most cases. I get inside info due to her and I having a daughter together, so my daughter (and her sisters) keep me informed.
 

Derbylicious

New member
Does every mono getting involved with a poly tangle try to do that? No. Most folks seem to want to work within the parameters they accepted in entering a relationship. There are enough selfish, twisted people who have evil motives that crop up that it's a well-known phenomenon, though.

.

I have a hard time believing that all people who behave in this way are really selfish and twisted. Society leads us to believe that when we find "the one" that they will make us complete. I think a lot of the time these cowboy/girll types are thinking that they are "the one" because they love their partner and vice versa and so they should live happily ever after. And for someone who is monogamous it's probably really hard to understand how someone can truly love you and still truly love others. Everyone is a product of their lived experience and as such we tend to think that the way we work inside is the same as the way everyone else works inside.

-Derby
 

NeonKaos

Custodian
They ARE "selfish" ("evil" and "twisted" maybe not) if they understand what they are getting involved in but still think they can get someone to "change" for them. I think that is what AT is talking about - when people go into a relationship with someone not for who they are but for what they think the other person OUGHT to be. This goes all ways - not ONLY with monogamous-minded people toward poly-minded people.
 

Honestheart

New member
i think the main thing is to get that monogamous persons motives and DRILL into the monogamous persons head that you and your SO's are all the same side of the coin, a package deal, a take me and however many other SO's i have because i ain't being yours alone i'm everybody's equally...
to me when i date poly folk i go into the relationship with the understanding that my poly partner and his SO's are a package deal. there is no him without her no matter however many "hers" there are...
you know what i mean?
not all monogamous people want to steal their poly partners and convert them to monogamy and take them for themselves.
some do, and they give monogamous folks a bad name in poly-mono relationships. that name is cowboys or cowgirls
just like some people use poly as a way to fuck around behind people's backs and give poly folk a bad name that name is players and cheaters.
 
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AutumnalTone

New member
Exactly. When I was single, anybody interested knew that I arrived with a son in my custody and a daughter living with her mother. Anybody getting involved now knows I have a son living with me, a daughter with her mother, and a wife.

And anybody who thinks that they can get me to change that is simply being rude and dysfunctional to the point of being evil--they know they're doing wrong and pursue it anyway.
 

geminigirl

New member
Just to play devil's advocate here, I'd like to mention that sometimes there are poly agendas.. ie. a poly person dates a mono person with the intention of "converting" them. In my observation (close-hand experience) this does not go over well for either person.

Sometimes agendas are not conscious, though. A culturally conditioned agenda just seems normal to the person who holds the belief. Even poly people dating other poly people can have "agendas", which is why it's important to discuss (and keep on discussing) relationship goals and needs as time goes on.
 

redpepper

New member
what is the difference between and agenda and a goal? I have goals in my life for my relationships... why is that not an agenda and how is it not selfish?

I think we are all selfish, we are all trying to do right by ourselves first. If we didn't then we would not be functional people.

I have the capacity to forgive someone who has a selfish agenda in their relationship, no matter what kind of relationship, because it's human. What I have no patience for is if they go on and on with it and don't give one ounce back for that patience. I can only go so far with that. I need to see movement to understand and accept before calling it quits.

@honestheart, Autumalnote- I agree, people need to be seen as a package deal, no matter what the relationship. We all come with baggage, others that are close to us and in poly? Other partners.
 

Ariakas

Bosun
what is the difference between and agenda and a goal? I have goals in my life for my relationships... why is that not an agenda and how is it not selfish?

I think we are all selfish, we are all trying to do right by ourselves first. If we didn't then we would not be functional people.

Agreed and we do see it time and time again here with people whos only agenda appears to be the person they are dependant on. At some point, in some way, you have to be trying to better yourself. Ideally everyone around you is helping you, as you also help them. Elevating the whole instead of the one.

I have the capacity to forgive someone who has a selfish agenda in their relationship, no matter what kind of relationship, because it's human. What I have no patience for is if they go on and on with it and don't give one ounce back for that patience. I can only go so far with that. I need to see movement to understand and accept before calling it quits.

Just curious, but isn't this the foundation of compromise? Too bad there isn't something measurable as to when the breaking point occurs. How far left and how long do I wait for someone to slide their thoughts over before walking away.

@honestheart, Autumalnote- I agree, people need to be seen as a package deal, no matter what the relationship. We all come with baggage, others that are close to us and in poly? Other partners.

Agreed as well :)
 

Ariakas

Bosun
Just to play devil's advocate here, I'd like to mention that sometimes there are poly agendas.. ie. a poly person dates a mono person with the intention of "converting" them. In my observation (close-hand experience) this does not go over well for either person.

I agree, I did this unintentionally. As I was falling for the girl, I was trying to convince myself and her that it would work. Didn't work out at all haha

Sometimes agendas are not conscious, though. A culturally conditioned agenda just seems normal to the person who holds the belief. Even poly people dating other poly people can have "agendas", which is why it's important to discuss (and keep on discussing) relationship goals and needs as time goes on.

Great point :)...
 

jkelly

New member
No converting?

sometimes there are poly agendas.. ie. a poly person dates a mono person with the intention of "converting" them. In my observation (close-hand experience) this does not go over well for either person.

You'd recommend poly- people only date other people who identified as poly- before they met?
 

Derbylicious

New member
You'd recommend poly- people only date other people who identified as poly- before they met?

I think it's more a case of letting everyone be who they are without trying to change them at all. I think if I was going to recommend anything when it comes to the world of dating it would be to only date people who know for sure who they are and what they want. The rest can be worked out through communication.
 

redpepper

New member
@ariakas- there is nothing wrong with compromise for me. Its settling for that that I think is damaging and pointless. There needs to be movement towards everyone getting their needs met. It is possible to find that in a relationship when those in it work on finding out what the root of their needs are and with some creativity in how to reach them. Settling for compromise just means the work isn't done. That's okay, but its important to know that is what you are doing so when the mood arises there is the option to work towards boundaries instead of compromise.
 

immaterial

New member
It seems a recipe for heartbreak to ignore reality and believe we can change other people. Is this not one of the primary sources of unhappiness in life? If only people would do as I want them to do! Then our relationship would be perfect. So I think an agenda is a very different thing from a goal. A goal is feasible. It has to do with existing materials and realities. A goal is probably most effectively reached if all parties agree to it. An agenda is bound to just create hell on wheels because it is not grounded in reality, is secret and unilateral, and is not feasible. If I were interested in a woman who was mono I'd just be setting myself up for resentment and recrimination if I tried to push her toward being poly. Non-monogamous sexuality in particular is really deeply painful behavior for a natural mono to engage in. Perhaps not to accept one's poly partner engaging in, but to engage in oneself. Similarly, "forced monogamy" in an effort to "hang on" to a mono partner is really painful, too. To the point, for me, of suicidal impulses.

I become less selfish and less altruistic altogether. These distinctions mean nothing to me, ultimately. I'm honest and the chips fall where they fall. We call the universe to us based on our manifesting, requesting energies. If I am open to what will serve my highest good, that is truly what will appear. I try to live my life this way on a daily basis now, with only occasional slips into the using and being used realm. The truth is we are not capable of being authentically selfish as we have no idea when we are acting out of self will what is truly in our best interest. Functional dysfunctionality is ultimately dysfunctional, unless we get blindly lucky. Happiness isn't very reliably constituted on luck, however. So for me it is only when I drop the agenda altogether and take life on life's terms that I can even see worthy goals.

Immaterial
 

geminigirl

New member
jkelly: Not at all.. but I do recommend not entering any relationship with the intent to convert your partner to your way of thinking, be it mono or poly.
 

marksbabygirl

New member
jkelly: Not at all.. but I do recommend not entering any relationship with the intent to convert your partner to your way of thinking, be it mono or poly.

But you all must think like ME dammit!!! :eek::p:D

Yah. No. That's like the old stereotype of a woman trying to change a man when they get married. It never works.

Whomever I date will know that I am married - that he must, by default, come first - even though in reality he allows me as much freedom as I want. There is a history of health issues that anyone involved with me must be aware of - because its a hard thing to understand if you're not living with it. Even living with it - I have a hard time sometimes understanding how truly hard he pushes himself - and then he crashes and needs me.

But yes - back to the original intent of the post.... THINK LIKE ME!! :eek:

*giggles*
 

redsirenn

New member
Poly relationship for the poly person

Why would someone EVER try to live in a poly relationship if they were mono?

In other words, be the mono in a poly relationship.

I think many people will respond with "because I love _____".

Don't you feel you are sacrificing something core to your being for this "love"? Isn't this by definition a sacrifice, and not a compromise?

Do you feel you are settling?

(This is in response to the mono dating thread started earlier.)

I mean, if you are not getting your needs met or even your wants met when you could MOST LIKELY get them met by someone else and be very happy, then what are you doing?

Staying in a relationship because you "love" someone really isn't the strongest argument for you. The abused say they "love" their spouses, those who do not get needs met stay because they "love" someone... Isn't this why so many people decide to venture into polyamory... to get needs met?

I am having a hard time understanding this one, thus the bluntness of my questions.
 
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