Need Help with Son hitting puberty

nondy2

New member
Boring,

Yes. you are VERY mainstream. Moat people agree that having CP or any disability would be their WORST NIGHTMARE. That is the ABLEIST culture. Being a cranky fag would be my worst nightmare. :)
 

BoringGuy

Banned
You are a disgrace to humanity in general and disabled people in particular, nondy.

I'm not sure if i will get in trouble for saying that. If i do, then i accept the infraction as part of being true to oneself.
 

Vixtoria

New member
I have every right to use crippled as a person taking back a slur. You, my friend, should not.

Okay I disagree with this for one major reason. It's when black kids in my neighborhood insist they can use the term 'nigger' but others can't. If you are 'taking back' the word, then it's free reign. I was lucky enough to be added to a site called Heartless Bitch. They are taking back the word bitch. So whether I use the term bitch to refer to myself or someone else does, doesn't matter. If they use the term 'incorrectly' then I am happy to point out what it means to me. I don't, however, get to tell someone else they can not use it while I can.


BoringGuy. I'm sorry if I cited you and NYC more often than not, honestly it was more that you seemed to be someone she took as offensive. I don't always agree with you, there are times that if we were in the same room I might even just give you the 'head tilt eye roll'. However, I've never seen you post anything that doesn't have some merit. Even if I don't like how it's worded, don't agree completely, or it doesn't have validity for me in my life.

If I try and write to each individual 'offense' in this thread I'd be here all day! I do think you and NYC along with a few other people that post regularly get a lot of people calling you out. Once they are around more they may get a good idea that things aren't as emotional or heated as they thought, but with the internet, people tend to read a lot of hostility into things when they themselves are feeling hostile.

Also for the record, anyone that doesn't want kids and doesn't have them is Aces! No matter your reasons, sticking to an important decision is better than caving and affecting other people, possibly for life, just because other people are rude about it.
 

nondy2

New member
Huh...? Someone who thinks having a disability isn't the worst nightmare and thinks that crippled is has the same effect as fag is a horrible person? uh, ok..

I agree. I feel bad for people who are chided for not having kids. I think that is horrible and ridiculous. On the other hand, I'd rather not have people who aren't around kids tell me what kids "know." But that is fine.
 

BoringGuy

Banned
Yeah i'm not worried about getting the head-tilt-eyeroll in person. I think it was you who said that i know i'm right? Well i know what you meant by that and understand the limits of that condition.

I have been working on an essay/routine/speech about how people on the internet, when encountering aa comment that could be perceived in more than one way, always always always (ok, usually) default to the worst, most negative interpretation of it. I have caught myself doing that too, even when I'm not feeling hostile. In fact, I rarely "feel hostile". I admit that I rub people the wrong way sometimes, but my experience has been that when i try to "be nice", i lose the respect of people who already appreciate me for who i really am. I have discovered that it's better to not walk on eggshells except when it comes to something that would get me fired from my job. that is just the truth.
 

SchrodingersCat

Active member
That make me feel misunderstood. I do not agree that a 10 year old in in charge of their body and that it is "their choice". Would you guys think smoking or doing coke is a ten-year-olds "choice". I think that for a parent to even allow that to happen is abuse.

Smoking and doing coke are not natural parts of human experience. They are not something nearly everyone will inevitably do at some point in their life. It's possible to explain coke and smoking in a "these things are terrible and you should never ever do them" way, which you cannot do with sex.

Smoking and doing coke are, inherently, always harmful and stupid. Sex is not inherently harmful and stupid. If your child feels sexual, then telling him he's too young to have those feelings will make him feel guilty, like there's something wrong with him. It will plant the seed that those feelings are dirty and that he should repress them. Do you have any idea what kind of psychological damage that will cause him for years to come, possibly the rest of his life?
 

SchrodingersCat

Active member
You're not going to stop loving your son if he gets a girl pregnant, but he should damn well know that if it does happen, you're going to put his ass through the wringer. Yes, you can talk to him and inform him of the life choices that entail, but I see no issue in laying down some good old fashioned authority. YOU are the provider, YOU are the holder of resources, YOU are the one in charge. Again, that's how parenting goes, and you are indeed meant to control your kids because how the heck else are they going to traverse life in their early stages of life - they have NOTHING to draw on.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Neither one of us can be considered the ultimate authority on all parenting methods. Myself, I would have been smothered and harmed by your parents' style of parenting. My step-daughter was psychologically harmed by that style of parenting, and is still trying to deal with the damage it caused.

I never said throw your kids into the big bad world with absolutely no education and just let them figure it all out for themselves. A parent's job is to educate their children and get them ready for adulthood.

You seem to think that it's impossible to teach and guide your children without being a dictator. Sure, China has the best athletes and is its people are really good at anything that requires discipline. China also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. If depression and suicidal tendencies are the price of that level of discipline, then count me out.

Each kid requires a different form of parenting. The same parenting style can cause one child to blossom and another to wilt. One size does not fit all. Even within a family, one child will need rules that the others won't. Some kids need authority and imposed control. These children will run rampant and behave without thought to consequence if those consequences are not imposed by authority. Others need loving support and encouragement, with freedom to explore and trust that they will make good decisions. These children will choose their behaviour based on natural consequences. Rather than rules, they need lessons. The real trick is figuring out what kind of child you have, and catering your parenting style to match.

Pro-choice is neither pro- nor anti-abortion; it's about acknowledging and supporting a woman's right to choose, no matter what the choice she ultimately makes.

I see no conflict in being pro-choice and anti-abortion. You can support a woman's right to choose without agreeing with her choice to have an abortion. My best friend was raised Catholic and believes, to her core, that abortion is wrong, always. But she also takes ownership of her beliefs and acknowledges that she does not have the right to impose them on others, hence she's pro-choice.
 
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SchrodingersCat

Active member
A few things: I did ask the boy if he knew what abortion is -- he does. But I have to say I feel a little on the hot stop here...which as a liberal parent is odd. How many people in the discussion have pre-teen children. And since you are encouraging (pushing) me to be liberal have you spoke openly about abortion, porn, transgender, gay marriage, cross-dressing and prositution?

You REEEEALLY need to start acknowledging that your son doesn't live under a rock. Kids these days know way way way more than their parents tend to give them credit for. Half your son's classmates have teenage siblings. Those teenagers love the thrill of exposing their younger siblings to all kinds of shocking ideas. Those other pre-teens, in turn, love the thrill of exposing their classmates to those shocking ideas. I can pretty much guarantee that your son has had some kind of exposure to every single thing you want to protect him from.

Why WOULDN'T you talk about those things? There's nothing wrong with trans*, gay marriage, and cross-dressing. Do you want your son to be the intolerant jerk on the playground who joins the other kids in teasing their little classmate when they find out she has two dads? Or do you want him to be the awesome kid who stands up for that girl and tells the other kids that there's nothing wrong with having gay dads? What if he has a classmate who's trans*? Let me guess, it's not your problem to explain that to him; that trans* kid should have to not only struggle through his or her own personal challenges, but also the burden of educating your kids for you?

I knew what abortion, gay marriage, prostitution, and porn were by the time I was 8. Trans* wasn't really a "thing" 23 years ago, almost no one knew what it was. But parents today can't use that for an excuse. The only effect that had on me was making me less bigoted. It hastened my education and acceptance of "different" people as an adult.

I have children in my life whose parents are terrified to talk about sex, mostly because it makes the parents uncomfortable. I've offered myself as a resource to those parents, and gone over their head and offered myself directly to the children. I make a point of talking about those things like they're no big deal. The best way to make someone really really interested in something is make it taboo. If you normalize it, it loses 95% of its hold.
 
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nondy2

New member
SC: That is a good point. Thank you. I want to be clear that I did not tell my son he is too young for his feelings. I told him that internet video porn was too much for him at this age and I would buy him a magazine if he wanted to look at it. I also have made it clear masturbating is normal and feelings for others are normal.

BG _ i am sorry. You did trigger me, I do find your comments totally unaware of disability empowerment and very offensive. However, I noticed that you said you were in an accident? Is there a chance that your now fear of becoming disabled has turned you against or made you suspicious of people who are comfortable with their disability? I say this without irony. I was born with my body and am used to it. It is 'normal" for me. I can understand the process (or empathize with) a person who might become disabled would go through. This, in fact, is a huge division in the disability rights community and why some people loved christopher reeves but many disabled people hated him (his MO was fix me, not society). I am sorry this got out of hand.
 

BoringGuy

Banned
Huh...? Someone who thinks having a disability isn't the worst nightmare and thinks that crippled is has the same effect as fag is a horrible person? uh, ok..

I agree. I feel bad for people who are chided for not having kids. I think that is horrible and ridiculous. On the other hand, I'd rather not have people who aren't around kids tell me what kids "know." But that is fine.


i was a kid once. when i was 10, like your son, i found Debbie Does Dallas in my father's porn collection and invited a bunch of neighborhood kids over to watch it. And Other Things. So i know "what kids know". Your approval is not required.

I think once people become parents, they forget what it was like to BE a kid, and I think that people who DON'T have kids are better at remembering what it was like to be one. Yes, i think it's time for a head-tilt-eyeroll?
 

nondy2

New member
Let me guess, it's not your problem to explain that to him; that trans* kid should have to not only struggle through his or her own personal challenges, but also the burden of educating your kids for you?


No, I totally agree, we should educate our job about trans. My point was that most DO NOT. I would also hope that, since there are way way more disabled people than trans people, that parents would discuss autism, Downs, cerebral palsy and other impairments with their kids. Judging from to 100s of kids in my life that have stared at me and beed shocked by my disability, that has yet to happen. Which was my only point earlier. Homosexuality and gender difference is acknowledged to some extent disability is not.
 

AutumnalTone

New member
Hi All,

Boring guy has said things that I find ableist, unkind, and aggressive.

According to you. Others may (and do) disagree with that assessment.

Again, if you don't like BG's style of discussion--which is very straightforward and some folks don't care for blunt talk--then ignore the posts. It really is that simple.

If you chose to restrict me from the site...

There are two ways to leave the site, and they are both due to your choice. The first is to simply not click the link in your browser to view the site and participate. The second is to violate the guidelines to the extent that you accrue enough points to get banned.

You could also choose to show up and participate and not earn points.

It's up to you.
 

AutumnalTone

New member
I have every right to use crippled as a person taking back a slur. You, my friend, should not.

If you use the term to refer to yourself in a message here, others can use the term to refer to you, too. To reclaim a word from being used as a pejorative, it can't still be a pejorative when used by other people. It either is a slur or it is not--you can't have it both ways.
 

ImaginaryIllusion

Administrator
Staff member
Unlocked.

Now that everyone has had a chance to take a breather, we'll re-open the thread since it seemed to be heading back towards a viable and productive discussion.

We do expect it will remain on-topic and civil. I am glad to see that this thread has allowed several community members new and old to learn about each other, their communication styles, and what things they might consider sensitive or triggering.
With reopening, I expect that the definition of Civil will include due care and respect provided by this new knowledge.
 

Vixtoria

New member
I think once people become parents, they forget what it was like to BE a kid, and I think that people who DON'T have kids are better at remembering what it was like to be one. Yes, i think it's time for a head-tilt-eyeroll?

Two things, part of my mental issues is that my memories of being a child are few and far between. I have maybe a handful from before age 13. Some people think I need to remember, others say I never will and that's a good thing. Regardless, what does happen is when I do remember something, it's from that POV. I don't remember things like most people, looking back, putting a different spin on it now that they are adults. I remember it as if it just happened. So it's hard for me to pinpoint an age most of the time. I remember so vividly what it felt like that I'm almost hyper aware of what my kids feel or think. There are things adults say that seem no big deal but they have no idea that it's going to stick with the kid for the rest of their life! That one little comment could become so important to the kid. I think remembering what I DO remember this way is why I've always been big on telling my kids to talk to me. That I'll be honest, if I don't know I don't know. I remember being stuck playing nursemaid to adults but being expected to sit there silently and NOT hear what they were talking about or even understand. I did though, much more than any of them realized. So I know my kids know more than I tell them. Which is why it IS my job to talk to them about everything. Not lecture, but talk. Sure sometimes they need a lecture, we all do, but if it's a discussion they can ask questions and we can discuss what they are wanting to as well.

Secondly, Head Tilt Eye Roll! YES! I'm starting a thing. There's no emoticon for it yet, but maybe I'll work on one. :D
 

BoringGuy

Banned
Secondly, Head Tilt Eye Roll! YES! I'm starting a thing. There's no emoticon for it yet, but maybe I'll work on one. :D


i know that comment was pure conjecture and generalization, annd carries no persuasive merit whatsoever. But it just SEEMS that way.

ok, i started writing a bunch of stuff and i got carried away and forgot the point i waas trying to make.

Also, my keyboard sometimes repeats letters and it's too mucch of a pain in the ass to fix it on the ipod.
 

nycindie

Active member
. . . I'd rather not have people who aren't around kids tell me what kids "know."
I hope you're not including me in this statement. Do you assume that because no babies ever popped out of me, I am never "around kids?" Sheesh, lady, really. Just because I did the most responsible and ethical thing I could do by choosing a child-free life, doesn't mean I don't know anything about parenting or children. And I don't need to tell you anything about my life story to justify my stance to you or anyone. Fuck that.

Look, people, I don't know why I keep getting mentioned in this fucking thread. I simply read a statement by the OP, said I didn't understand it, offered an opinion as to why it didn't makes sense to me, got a response, and then acknowledged that the statement now made sense to me after further details were given. Nondy didn't even acknowledge that and now I keep getting mentioned as if I said something horrible. I don't get it. To reiterate: I said I didn't understand something, stated why, got a response, and then replied, "Nondy, I do understand you better now. What you said in response to my post does make sense and now I get what you meant," after which I moved on. Now all of a sudden, I am being cited as someone who shouldn't talk about parenting if I am not a parent? WTF? What am I missing here? How did this thread get so crazy and weird?

I never tried to strong-arm anyone into changing their feelings of opinions on anything, nor do I care one iota if anyone agrees with me. I haven't been online since Friday until now, and I am obviously not that invested in following this conversation, so I am stymied why I come back here and read it to find myself referenced here multiple times, as if I said something offensive. I thought my part of the conversation was over, for fuck's sake.
 

ThatGirlInGray

New member
Nycindie, I don't think it was about you. When you said, "I hope you're not including me in this statement." I think you were quite correct, because I believe she was referring to the posts below:

I guarantee your son knows about abortion.

I am prepared now for rebuttal about how i can't possibly know what someone else's child knows better than the parent does.

If your son can read and/or understand at least one spoken language, he knows about abortion. Anti-porn software does not apply to information about abortion.

Not having our own children has ZERO to do with us pointing out that a literate 10-year-old in modern Western society has their own resources for finding information (accurate and otherwise) that their parents do not provide or want to share in a discussion.



I'm "pushing you to be liberal"? That's just silly.

Yes, I've spoken openly about all those things. So?

No, I don't have kids. Don't like them, don't want them, didn't have them. Child-free by um, CHOICE.

Yes, I've discussed all that with my [imaginary] youngsters. :rolleyes:

And even then, her reaction to BG was based on more than just these statements, I think, but went back to other perceived insults.

So no, I'd venture to say none of it had anything to do with you. There were several posts I don't think got acknowledged, just because of the sheer number of posts over a period of time. I doubt it was purposefully ignoring. And we're just strangers on the internet, remember? It's not worth getting upset about.
 
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